Close Pass

deadlyspot.com

I've captured a few close passes now which aid in the discussion of what constitues enough space for overtaking a cyclist. I have spoken with diffrent members of the Gardai about this type of driving and they don't appear to be too concerned. We know that a lot of drivers do give you space, but when a driver passes you too close and/or at speed, that is dangerous driving. It takes this kind of careless driving to knock a cyclist off and serious hurt / kill them.

Here is my latest and closest pass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKhnDc1rS94

It's been a while since I had a shave that close, but surely that's enough to make some law makers and enforcers to take on board this as a real problem. Here are more examples of pointless, needless, idiotic overtaking by motorists, taxis and buses that are not acceptable.

Bus Change Lane and bullying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABb-UoHP1DE

Bus Close pass in the bus lane, which also highlights the danger of painting a cycle lane into a bus lane that is just wide enough for a bus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN-nLMHD_KQ

Taxi Close Pass in Bus Lane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r-SUShkHmU

Taxi Close pass on single lane road, forcing cars coming the opposite direction to slow and move in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePaFXCdQBh0

Taxi Close Pass in Bus Lane, with a follow up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEmmU1j8-Mk

Another Taxi that passes too close and doesn't get very far. Most of the time the cyclist will pass you again in under a minute. Think ahead!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZRF2JOiJPo

Lane Change Close Pass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7vxik4y2vU

The opposite to a close pass. Lots of room for the cyclist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQxruFPK-ho


Are you listening Gardai?

Are you listening RSA?

Are you listening government ministers / councilors?

If you didn't believe it before, do you believe it now?

In the UK, the CTC have set this up, STOP SMIDSY http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk/ Who wants to do that here? Shall I? DO we need stats?

AltAccount

I was coming over Killiney Hill recently with my baby on a handlebar mounted seat.

I got buzzed very close by a guy in a BMW.

Coming down the other side of the hill I came across him again at the bottom as he was turning into his estate.

I followed him in and gave him a bollocking when he got out of his car.

My favourite bit was when he said "sorry about that, I didn't realise you had a baby on the bike".
So it's ok to buzz cyclists as long as you're not endangering children?

Jackass :mad:

deadlyspot.com

AltAccount wrote: »

My favourite bit was when he said "sorry about that, I didn't realise you had a baby on the bike".
So it's ok to buzz cyclists as long as you're not endangering children?

Jackass :mad:

That was definitely a muppet and completely unacceptable driving. Thanks for sharing the story.

Lumen

deadlyspot.com wrote: »

Here is my latest and closest pass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKhnDc1rS94

Fffffff that's close. Over a solid white line into a bus lane! Was the bus lane operational? Not that it matters much.

Surely that's a case for careless driving/DWODCA or whatever it's called. Broad daylight, clear lines of sight and your road position is perfect. Complete muppet.

I haven't had a pass anything like that close in 4 years or so of cycling in Dublin.

Tristram

Just watching scared the **** out of me. Way too close a call!

kendragon

Great post OP. Traffic isn't as mental here in Limerick but I still find myself in situations where drivers get right in on top of me for some unknown reasons. I believe myself to be a very considerate cyclist and I tend to be tucked in to the curb as best I can for the majority of my cycles. Stop at red lights and indicate my intentions etc. So I don't appreciate when I get someone who seems to be acting the jackass. :mad: One of the most bizarre phenomenon I've noticed, quite a bit actually, is when someone comes right up close to hitting you but then seems to pull out a few feet up ahead. I can never tell if they are being cheeky p***ks and trying to annoy me or just have some weird delayed reaction to seeing me.

Anyway, as I've said, great post and you've encouraged me to get a helmet cam of my own. If nothing else it seems to calm down a confrontational driver when they notice they might be recorded.

Mycroft H

kendragon wrote: »

Great post OP. Traffic isn't as mental here in Limerick but I still find myself in situations where drivers get right in on top of me for some unknown reasons. I believe myself to be a very considerate cyclist and I tend to be tucked in to the curb as best I can for the majority of my cycles. Stop at red lights and indicate my intentions etc. So I don't appreciate when I get someone who seems to be acting the jackass. :mad: One of the most bizarre phenomenon I've noticed, quite a bit actually, is when someone comes right up close to hitting you but then seems to pull out a few feet up ahead. I can never tell if they are being cheeky p***ks and trying to annoy me or just have some weird delayed reaction to seeing me.

Anyway, as I've said, great post and you've encouraged me to get a helmet cam of my own. If nothing else it seems to calm down a confrontational driver when they notice they might be recorded.

Why do that?

deadlyspot.com

kendragon wrote: »

Great post OP. Traffic isn't as mental here in Limerick but I still find myself in situations where drivers get right in on top of me for some unknown reasons. I believe myself to be a very considerate cyclist and I tend to be tucked in to the curb as best I can for the majority of my cycles. Stop at red lights and indicate my intentions etc. So I don't appreciate when I get someone who seems to be acting the jackass. :mad: One of the most bizarre phenomenon I've noticed, quite a bit actually, is when someone comes right up close to hitting you but then seems to pull out a few feet up ahead. I can never tell if they are being cheeky p***ks and trying to annoy me or just have some weird delayed reaction to seeing me.

Anyway, as I've said, great post and you've encouraged me to get a helmet cam of my own. If nothing else it seems to calm down a confrontational driver when they notice they might be recorded.

Thanks, and not all drivers appreciate you saying something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7axuGXm8_Qc

kendragon wrote: »

One of the most bizarre phenomenon I've noticed, quite a bit actually, is when someone comes right up close to hitting you but then seems to pull out a few feet up ahead. I can never tell if they are being cheeky p***ks and trying to annoy me or just have some weird delayed reaction to seeing me.

I wonder about that type of driving too. I see that as well and wonder what and why on earth. Lack of respect is all I can define it as.

macnab

I find certain stretches of road worse than others. The road from Kilcock to Summerhill is the one I usually get buzzed on. I have started to spit to my right when I hear cars coming on that road in the hope that the driver might give the oik on the bike some more space:P it gives me a sort of a psycological lift to know that if they do pass too close they might actually regret it in hindsight. (yes I know its childish BTW)

funnights74

Jaysus scary stuff, well we all know taxi drivers have little regard for cyclists, my brother drives a taxi and he considers cyclists a " non road tax paying nuisance". I remind him it's actually motor tax. Excellent thread though.

deadlyspot.com

funnights74 wrote: »

Jaysus scary stuff, well we all know taxi drivers have little regard for cyclists, my brother drives a taxi and he considers cyclists a " non road tax paying nuisance". I remind him it's actually motor tax. Excellent thread though.

Ah.... so this video is for him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCb4F_6JVZE

deadlyspot.com

macnab wrote: »

I find certain stretches of road worse than others. The road from Kilcock to Summerhill is the one I usually get buzzed on. I have started to spit to my right when I hear cars coming on that road in the hope that the driver might give the oik on the bike some more space:P it gives me a sort of a psycological lift to know that if they do pass too close they might actually regret it in hindsight. (yes I know its childish BTW)

kendragon wrote: »

Great post OP. Traffic isn't as mental here in Limerick but I still find myself in situations where drivers get right in on top of me for some unknown reasons. I believe myself to be a very considerate cyclist and I tend to be tucked in to the curb as best I can for the majority of my cycles

BX 19 wrote: »

Why do that?

What do you think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSkNB4VMvYc

A lot of cyclists say that you should take the primary position in the lane and not hug the curb as it invites an overtake. Can you see the overtakes in this by two different taxi drivers. The second one beeps, but overtakes with lots of room. Which would you prefer?

Mycroft H

deadlyspot.com wrote: »

What do you think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSkNB4VMvYc

A lot of cyclists say that you should take the primary position in the lane and not hug the curb as it invites an overtake. Can you see the overtakes in this by two different taxi drivers. The second one beeps, but overtakes with lots of room. Which would you prefer?

Hugging the kerb is only asking yourself for trouble. People then treat you as a pedestrian rather then a vehicle. Your in on the drains, rubbish with no "wiggle" room so to speak. Basically, I'm right out of my comfort zone and cruising near the kerb has caused me some close encounters over the years from vehicles buzzing me.

Yet the dangers of this are not thought to people. Even out on country windy roads, I see people out training on racebikes in on the ditch. It then becomes the expected place for cyclists from a motorists point of view and when someone takes the lane, it leads to the aggression we see in that video.

Nevertheless, I'm frequently taking the lane, city or country. Its the lesser of two evils now.

deadlyspot.com

BX 19 wrote: »

Hugging the kerb is only asking yourself for trouble. People then treat you as a pedestrian rather then a vehicle. Your in on the drains, rubbish with no "wiggle" room so to speak. Basically, I'm right out of my comfort zone and cruising near the kerb has caused me some close encounters over the years from vehicles buzzing me.

Yet the dangers of this are not thought to people. Even out on country windy roads, I see people out training on racebikes in on the ditch. It then becomes the expected place for cyclists from a motorists point of view and when someone takes the lane, it leads to the aggression we see in that video.

Nevertheless, I'm frequently taking the lane, city or country. Its the lesser of two evils now.

Yep, and agree to your second paragraph whole heartedly. Can only imagine the benefits of all cyclists cycling more out from the curb, rather than most cycling in to the left.

Darkglasses

Great post Deadlyspot. I'm now commuting in Wexford rather than Dublin, and the respect/space I get from drivers is far greater. There has only been 1 or 2 occasions where I haven't been afforded the maximum space available in my first week here, but nothing too close either. In Dublin dangerous passing was practically a daily occurence, usually accompanied by verbal abuse at the following red light.

deadlyspot.com

Darkglasses wrote: »

Great post Deadlyspot. I'm now commuting in Wexford rather than Dublin, and the respect/space I get from drivers is far greater. There has only been 1 or 2 occasions where I haven't been afforded the maximum space available in my first week here, but nothing too close either. In Dublin dangerous passing was practically a daily occurence, usually accompanied by verbal abuse at the following red light.

Well that's good to hear. There really is too much complacency in the morning rat run to work.

Are there any deadlyspots in Wexford to list? :-)

nomdeboardie

deadlyspot.com wrote: »

... Are you listening Gardai? ...

Dunno whether they're listening, but not much chance they're looking. I gave a one-fingered salute to a close-passer a few months back, then saw it was a Garda vehicle. A van, no less - all the better to haul me off for disturbing the peace :eek:; of course, that didn't happen, as my gesture presumably went unnoticed...:rolleyes:

And re close passes on single lane roads against oncoming traffic - the number of times I've seen that, whether as part of the oncoming traffic (cycling or driving) myself or as the 'passee'... Often when I'm in an oncoming car myself, with nothing behind me, so that they would only have to wait an extra second to have the whole road to pass safely!

One of my car pass incidents was while driving on a country road: Saw oncoming car starting to pass a cyclist and knew it was too close to me, so slowed down. Then another followed it, so I slowed further, preparing to stop. Then another muppet completed the Convoy of Cluelessness, at which point I was all but completely stopped on the road.

Re buses: Wrote to Dublin Bus a few years ago about an incident, then sent a registered letter when the first wasn't acknowledged. Latter elicited a phone call from them, although I think they said they couldn't find video footage to review; I make a point that they needed to update their driver education - glad to see that was effective...:rolleyes:

Darkglasses

deadlyspot.com wrote: »

Well that's good to hear. There really is too much complacency in the morning rat run to work.

Are there any deadlyspots in Wexford to list? :-)

I could try to find some, although I'm the only bike commuter I've seen so far!

nomdeboardie

Lumen wrote: »

Fffffff that's close. Over a solid white line into a bus lane! Was the bus lane operational? Not that it matters much.

Surely that's a case for careless driving/DWODCA or whatever it's called. Broad daylight, clear lines of sight and your road position is perfect. Complete muppet. ...

Yup. Either negligently careless (not sure if that's a redundancy :P) or deliberate.

RO 06

Had some ass#ole that nearly took my foot out of the pedal this morning when I was cycling on the skerries to lusk road. I had just moved out from the verge a few minutes before they passed me as another car had passed me with oncoming traffic. I think they understood my hand signals to them.

pprendeville

macnab wrote: »

I find certain stretches of road worse than others. The road from Kilcock to Summerhill is the one I usually get buzzed on. I have started to spit to my right when I hear cars coming on that road in the hope that the driver might give the oik on the bike some more space:P it gives me a sort of a psycological lift to know that if they do pass too close they might actually regret it in hindsight. (yes I know its childish BTW)

Excellent tactic.

Cork24

Had one or two near misses..

I now take as much room on the Lane as i can this in turn forces the car drivers to use the out side line to over take..

Jawgap

deadlyspot.com wrote: »

...........

Are you listening Gardai?

Are you listening RSA?

Are you listening government ministers / councilors?

If you didn't believe it before, do you believe it now?

............

.....maybe it's just me but that little rant reminded me of this.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZTP8-8wIs

nomdeboardie

macnab wrote: »

I find certain stretches of road worse than others. The road from Kilcock to Summerhill is the one I usually get buzzed on. I have started to spit to my right when I hear cars coming on that road in the hope that the driver might give the oik on the bike some more space:P it gives me a sort of a psycological lift to know that if they do pass too close they might actually regret it in hindsight. (yes I know its childish BTW)

:pac:

[Insert FarSide cartoon image in your head] "Don't get too close to it, Bob - they spit"

RO 06 wrote: »

Had some ass#ole that nearly took my foot out of the pedal this morning when I was cycling on the skerries to lusk road. I had just moved out from the verge a few minutes before they passed me as another car had passed me with oncoming traffic. I think they understood my hand signals to them.

Track athletes and golfers have spiked shoes...how about some for cyclists - long spikes projecting laterally. Or a reverse Clarkson for the wheels

SomeFool

That clip is scary op. I can also honestly say I probably would not have been as calm as you had it been me, credit to you sir!

kendragon

BX 19 wrote: »

Why do that?

Well I'm not going to actively piss off drivers by staying in the middle of the lane. I cycle mostly on urban or main roads and it just find it easier to tuck in by the curb and leave them too it. Don't get me wrong, I have no qualms about taking a lane when I feel that there will not be a safe amount of room for me and a car... and I'll pass no apologies for it either.

John_Rambo

deadlyspot.com wrote: »

Here is my latest and closest pass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKhnDc1rS94

That was the closest I have ever seen a car pass a cyclist without touching!! You held your cool so well, very articulate and lucid bollocking, I would have been spluttering, fuming wreck. Do you think the close pass was on purpose???

Donelson

Darkglasses wrote: »

deadlyspot.com wrote: »

Well that's good to hear. There really is too much complacency in the morning rat run to work.

Are there any deadlyspots in Wexford to list? :-)

I could try to find some, although I'm the only bike commuter I've seen so far!

You can't be cycling in wexford town! I'd take dublin any day.

deadlyspot.com

Darkglasses wrote: »

I could try to find some, although I'm the only bike commuter I've seen so far!

So you are 'the only cyclist in the village' :-)

What strikes me most watching this is the pointlessness of the pass. What exactly were they trying to achieve given that there was a red light 100m down the road?

a148pro

The driver in the first clip does commit a criminal offence, either careless or dangerous driving, the distinction between the two isn't clear cut

The problem from the Garda's perspective is that you don't have enough to prove who the driver is. In theory he could check who the registered owner is and then go out and try and get a statement from him. If he admitted he was driving at the time then he'd prob have a case.

But without that reg plate and partial shot of face wouldn't be enough.

But the conduct depicted is, imo, criminal

a148pro

Deleted User wrote: »

What strikes me most watching this is the pointlessness of the pass. What exactly were they trying to achieve given that there was a red light 100m down the road?

This is so true of almost all the bad impatient driving you see in built up areas, you just look at the drivers and think you idiots, can you not see how futile that is.

John_Rambo

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly were they trying to achieve given that there was a red light 100m down the road?

That's the norm! Part of my (short) commute is a narrow down hill ramped road that leads to a main road with a busy T-junction and STOP sign. I usually hit about 35kph without slowing for ramps, the amount of drivers that break their necks to get by me is unbelievable, sump guards and exhaust pipes grating over the ramps, veering in to avoid oncoming traffic...only to stop when they are three metres ahead of me!

I had to drive in the other day and I took the same route. There was cyclist in front of me, so I hung back and let her take the lead. The Girl behind me was livid, I could see her mouthing and waving at me to overtake!! Got to the end of the road and sat in traffic for five minutes while the cyclist carried on.

robertxxx

Surprised there was no bus Eireann involved as i rate these the worst then female drivers a very close second then usual taxi goons.

nomdeboardie

robertxxx wrote: »

Surprised there was no bus Eireann involved as i rate these the worst then female drivers a very close second then usual taxi goons.

Wouldn't rate males high for spelling & grammar on this evidence :pac:

robertxxx

Cut me a bit of slack, its Saturday night and I've consumed a few.

1. Bus Eireann

2. Moaning female drivers who "panic drive" when all they are doing is just going to the shops!!! ie; everyday driving.

3. Taxi drivers.

Beasty

robertxxx wrote: »

Cut me a bit of slack, its Saturday night and I've consumed a few.

That's your problem

However your comments about Bus Eireann, female drivers and taxi drivers is mine

Do not make generic comments of this nature, or next time you can expect formal action

a148pro

The angry taxi woman is also truly remarkable. She's like a character from a comedy sketch or something.

Masala

As a matter of interest... what kind of Helmet Cam are you using????

...seems good quality recordings!

Am in market for a camera at moment and am taking any advice I can get...

Thanks

robertxxx

Beasty wrote: »

That's your problem

However your comments about Bus Eireann, female drivers and taxi drivers is mine

Do not make generic comments of this nature, or next time you can expect formal action

Whoa, step away from the fizzy pop,

First of all what's the main charter in all of these videos being posted?

Taxis, busses, female drivers! ok i apologies about bus eireann as they are not in the videos posted.

But please let me get this straight, you can make and post generic videos about the above ( number plates included ), but its not ok to make generic comment's about them???

Darkglasses

Donelson wrote: »

You can't be cycling in wexford town! I'd take dublin any day.

I do! I go from around Forth into Wexford town, mostly evenings and nights but i cycle plenty in the mornings also. I find drivers far more courteous here than in Dublin. Far less verbal confrontations involved also. In my last week in Dublin, a taxi driver pulled me over to tell me exactly how safe his appalling pass was :pac:

ROK ON

I have been following this thread with interest. Much of what has been stated is well measured as opposed to the usual rants that appear on this type of topic.

I would love to know is there a Garda policy on dangerous driving and close encounters with cyclists.

In the past five years I have two incidents where the Gardai have been involved. Their subsequent behaviour and attitude left me despairing.

Issue 1. I was cycling on NCR and indicated to turn right. Stopped and waited fir no oncoming vehicles. When opportunity came to turn a car in the minor road turned onto me as I was making my turn. I screamed an o zenith. Two bike Gardai witnessed the event. I was verbally threatened by one of them for potential breach of the peace by use of a usibe language. Now this was the same week the Brian Coawan used the f word in the Dail. I pointed out to the Garda that I would be happy for him to waste court time to pursue this matter but given media events that week, I would imagine that I would get away with it. When he was quizzed about the incident - he responded that I was on a bike and the car had the right of way. When you have to explain the rules of engagement between users at a major/minor road intersection to Gardai then you are losing.

Second incident I was knocked off my bike on a one way street by a car that underpasses me by mounting a footpath. The Gardai at Pearse St had no inclination to follow up. The driver in question (I had reg and car make), was from an area in Finglas that they suggested would be difficult to do anything about, so best I just forget about it.

If the organisational culture is to treat cyclists as a frivolous nuisance then it is easy to see how that culture permeates. Nothing ever gets done as it is part of the thinking of the state.

Beasty

robertxxx wrote: »

Whoa, step away from the fizzy pop,

First of all what's the main charter in all of these videos being posted?

Taxis, busses, female drivers! ok i apologies about bus eireann as they are not in the videos posted.

But please let me get this straight, you can make and post generic videos about the above ( number plates included ), but its not ok to make generic comment's about them???

If anyone has an issue with Mod actions/instructions, PM the Mod or report the post (all forum Mods and CMods are notified of reported posts) - do not challenge in-thread

Lumen

ROK ON wrote: »

If the organisational culture is to treat cyclists as a frivolous nuisance then it is easy to see how that culture permeates. Nothing ever gets done as it is part of the thinking of the state.

Guards are ordinary people and most ordinary people are morons.

Harrybelafonte

Lumen wrote: »

Guards are ordinary people and most ordinary people are morons.

Do y'know what's really f'ked up though.... The Gardaí also have a cycling club. Maybe we should petition them directly. They'll get so annoyed they'll have to do something.

Lumen

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Do y'know what's really f'ked up though.... The Gardaí also have a cycling club. Maybe we should petition them directly. They'll get so annoyed they'll have to do something.

There are plenty of Guards cycling (and racing), but I'm not sure petitioning anyone will make much difference. Do you agree with everyone in your workplace?

Jawgap

The Guards are well capable of defending themselves so need for me to saddle up for them.

What I would say is that my own experiences have been more positive. A motorbike Guard witnessed a jeep cut me up one evening over by Christchurch and that ended in a prosecution and conviction for the driver; and on another occasion another jeep forced me off the road. The Guards took the complaint and a couple of traffic corps officers visited the driver to talk to him about his driving.

On a separate note, I'm still wondering why anyone would want to strap a camera to their head, record instances of stupidity in Dublin and then publish it on youtube????? I'm none the wiser having had a look at the OP's channel - although it does suggest D4 is like the Dodge City of cycling in the capital!

Seweryn

Jawgap wrote: »

On a separate note, I'm still wondering why anyone would want to strap a camera to their head, record instances of stupidity in Dublin and then publish it on youtube????? I'm none the wiser having had a look at the OP's channel - although it does suggest D4 is like the Dodge City of cycling in the capital!

I believe in a situation that you wish you had it recorded, you just have.

Harrybelafonte

Lumen wrote: »

There are plenty of Guards cycling (and racing), but I'm not sure petitioning anyone will make much difference. Do you agree with everyone in your workplace?

I lost my job a year ago... but thanks for bringing that up.

I'm joking, I was also joking in the post you quoted in a failed attempt to make the point you stated more clearly.

deadlyspot.com

ROK ON wrote: »

I would love to know is there a Garda policy on dangerous driving and close encounters with cyclists.

There has been attempts to get a definied minimum passing distance, but none is established in Irish traffic law as far as I know. In the UK they have 1.5m.

I have found that yes, Gardai are people and they have a job and that involves many cases, and when those cases are prioritised, your case may not feature in the top 10 most important things to get done. So a lot of the time it can really come down to the Garda you deal with and how you make you case / statement. And as previously mentioned, if the other party is not available ot reluctant to get involved, this can draw things out very long.

My feeling is that due to perceptions about cyclists and motorists, there tends to be an over looking of incidents unless you can clearly articulate your facts.

Jawgap

Seweryn wrote: »

I believe in a situation that you wish you had it recorded, you just have.

Using that logic, wouldn't you then have to camera-up your car, yourself when you go walking, the kids, the dogs etc

And even if you though that was a good idea - or even that just wearing a camera while cycling is a good idea - why publish or post it?

Ride, record - nothing happened, delete it and start again.......