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Kenny to push for debt deal after Yes vote

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13

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    #62
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,591 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    And from that sample you deduce the thoughts of the million and a half who didn't vote? That doesn't even slightly hold up.



    That's another little analogy that has no relevance, though. Why would the Germans have particularly given us something in advance of the vote? What would they have got out of doing so?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw
    I am only of the opinion from speaking to people who didn't vote alright and while it doesn't hold up I still feel that the turn-out was so poor because many wanted to vote No but didn't vote at all through fear.

    The Germans may have given us something to ensure we voted Yes. It is easy to be wise after the event but they didn't know we were going to vote Yes. I am sure they were aware that we voted No on previous occasions before being told to vote again.


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    #63
    Varied
    Closed Accounts Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Varied


    K-9 wrote: »
    Nothing to do with you using a term specifically banned in the charter? Ironically its a pretty varied list of terms!

    PM the mods if you've a problem with mod actions, don't take threads off topic discussing them.

    Apologies.


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    #64
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I am only of the opinion from speaking to people who didn't vote alright and while it doesn't hold up I still feel that the turn-out was so poor because many wanted to vote No but didn't vote at all through fear.

    Sure - but something one hears regularly from people is that everyone they know is voting the same way as them. Such "samples" are so unrepresentative as to be entirely meaningless - you cannot extrapolate from a few people you know to a million and a half people you don't.
    tayto lover wrote: »
    The Germans may have given us something to ensure we voted Yes. It is easy to be wise after the event but they didn't know we were going to vote Yes. I am sure they were aware that we voted No on previous occasions before being told to vote again.

    But they had no particular reason to need us to vote Yes. And if they did need us to vote Yes, surely they would have offered something?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #65
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    I don't think anyone is jumping around in glee at their scepticism of a deal being vindicated -- but you really have to ask yourself what on Earth Gilmore and Kenny were doing shooting their mouth off about this if, as it seems, there was no chance of a bank deal on foot of the Irish referendum result.

    I'm not saying that anyone ever suggested there was a realistic chance of the Irish Yes vote leading to a deal on Ireland's bank debt by the way - well, nobody except the Government, and they are looking increasingly clueless in terms of what's happening.


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    #66
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    20Cent wrote: »
    Working class areas have lost the most from austerity measures and cuts. They voted no because it clearly is not working and they are the most patriotic areas as well so the loss of sovereignty is a big issue.

    You need to be poor to be patriotic?:confused:


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    #67
    cyberhog
    Registered Users Posts: 940 ✭✭✭cyberhog


    Scofflaw wrote: »

    But they had no particular reason to need us to vote Yes.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    John Bruton said a NO vote "could lead to a whole series of knock on damage in the eurozone"

    http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2012-05-30/bruton-says-irish-no-vote-would-cause-contagion

    You don't think Germany would be worried about that?


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    #68
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    cyberhog wrote: »
    John Bruton said a NO vote "could lead to a whole series of knock on damage in the eurozone"

    http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2012-05-30/bruton-says-irish-no-vote-would-cause-contagion

    You don't think Germany would be worried about that?

    No, not really. After all, that's just scaremongering, no?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #69
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    Just heard on news - no debt relief from europe because we voted yes!!!


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    #70
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    femur61 wrote: »
    Just heard on news - no debt relief from europe because we voted yes!!!

    Talk about misrepresentation of what was said:
    EUROPEAN Central Bank President Mario Draghi has poured cold water on hopes that Ireland will get a deal on its multi-billion euro bank debt following the recent Yes vote to the Fiscal Treaty Referendum.

    Speaking in Frankfurt after the ECB kept its key rate at a record low of 1pc, he said it was never a given that ratification of the treaty would equal a deal on the bank debt.

    “I don’t think there was any ground or any statement of a quid pro quo for this,” he said.

    Come to think of it, I never heard that claim (from the yes side), just that it would make it easier to negotiate a deal.

    And anybody that thinks that the ECB can do an about face about the bank debt (in any eurozone country) without some changes to the banking structure in Europe (our politicians are aware of this requirement) is either clueless or deluded.


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    #71
    chieftan65
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭chieftan65


    ok.. they got the yes vote.. where are all the investors who gilmore said were waiting in the wings to create jobs in ireland??? i thought dublin airport would be awash with private jets all week. dont tell me this is another one of eamonn's airy fairy ideas???


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    #72
    Censorship
    Site Banned Posts: 54 ✭✭Censorship


    Sure Kenny couldn't push anything.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLGhDyQjc_w


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    #73
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    jank wrote: »
    You need to be poor to be patriotic?:confused:

    Didn't say anything remotely like that.

    Anyway,
    Looks like the unelected Draghi says there will be no debt writedown due to the yes vote. Video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doVq0U4ajsY


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    #74
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,591 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    No, not really. After all, that's just scaremongering, no?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Reverse psychology by F.G aimed at F.G. :rolleyes:


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    #75
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    chieftan65 wrote: »
    ok.. they got the yes vote.. where are all the investors who gilmore said were waiting in the wings to create jobs in ireland??? i thought dublin airport would be awash with private jets all week. dont tell me this is another one of eamonn's airy fairy ideas???

    Looks like all new jobs announcements were made before referendum in order to sweeten deal, now time to pay back for yes vote

    450 job losses announced at Iarnród Éireann

    177 jobs to go at Pfizer in Cork

    Atlantic Homecare announces plans to close five stores


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    #76
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Yeah, Atlantic Homecare have been wanting to close those shops for months now but they had to wait for a yes vote.


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    #77
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    177 jobs to go at Pfizer in Cork
    Trying to make some kind of political point around jobs that were always going to go because of a 20 year patent running out is kinda silly.

    Irishrail needs to be seriously reformed (as does the rest of CIE) as it's a seriously bloated setup.

    Atlantic homecare have been in trouble for 5 years, or woodies wouldn't have been able to buy them out.


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    #78
    Good loser
    Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭Good loser


    chieftan65 wrote: »
    ok.. they got the yes vote. where are all the investors who gilmore said were waiting in the wings to create jobs in ireland??? i thought dublin airport would be awash with private jets all week. dont tell me this is another one of eamonn's airy fairy ideas???

    Shouldn't that be WE got the yes vote?


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    #79
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Forget the referendum result what matters now is this, will Germany bail out Spains banks directly? If they do then a precedent will have been set.


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    #80
    onemorechance
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭onemorechance


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    That's another little analogy that has no relevance, though. Why would the Germans have particularly given us something in advance of the vote? What would they have got out of doing so?

    They could have been told by Kenny that he would have trouble ensuring a Yes vote with the treaty due to the difficulties that many Irish are experiencing and the disillusionment amongst many with the EU.

    With the austerity measures being imposed on Ireland where we are being told that we must sell state assets and then must ask permission for how and what we can spend the proceeds on. The fact that tax payers are being burdened with paying loans which are being used to pay debts accrued by private banks.

    Since Ireland is the only country in the EU who put the treaty to a ballot of citizens it might have given a kick up the ass to the Germans and the rest of the EU that they need to start thinking of the citizens of Europe when making their decisions and that they are accountable to the citizens of Europe; it is after all supposed to be a union.


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    #81
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    20Cent wrote: »
    Didn't say anything remotely like that.

    Em, you kinda did. See again.
    20Cent wrote: »
    Working class areas have lost the most from austerity measures and cuts. They voted no because it clearly is not working and they are the most patriotic areas as well so the loss of sovereignty is a big issue.

    So working class areas which are traditionaly not as wealthy as middle class areas, are more patriotic? The message is clear.

    What proof do you have of that. Counting people that wear Celtic Jerseys?


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    #82
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    onemorechance wrote: »
    With the austerity measures being imposed on Ireland where we are being told that we must sell state assets and then must ask permission for how and what we can spend the proceeds on. The fact that tax payers are being burdened with paying loans which are being used to pay debts accrued by private banks.

    .

    I have heard that it is only 1/4 of our debt is due to the banks. sorry I will look for a link it was on RTE1 the other morning.

    I know I sound like a broken record but most of my family work in the PS and they now realise how lucky they are. A consultant here can top up their €250,000 (compared to £127,000 - NHS) with private work. We do need to sort out our problems before the EU will look upon us seriously.


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    #83
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    jank wrote: »
    Em, you kinda did. See again.



    So working class areas which are traditionaly not as wealthy as middle class areas, are more patriotic? The message is clear.

    What proof do you have of that. Counting people that wear Celtic Jerseys?

    Try reading it again said nothing of the sort.
    mmm I see................


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    #84
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭creedp


    femur61 wrote: »
    I know I sound like a broken record but most of my family work in the PS and they now realise how lucky they are. A consultant here can top up their €250,000 (compared to £127,000 - NHS) with private work. We do need to sort out our problems before the EU will look upon us seriously.


    So your using the pay scale for the one of best paid and priviledged category of PS workers to be somehow representative of the entire PS! Are most of your family members consultants? This kind of stuff is being pedalled around constantly ... oh my God consultants are earning €250k plus private income ... ergo the entire PS should take at least a 50% pay cut .......


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    #85
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    creedp wrote: »
    So your using the pay scale for the one of best paid and priviledged category of PS workers to be somehow representative of the entire PS! Are most of your family members consultants? This kind of stuff is being pedalled around constantly ... oh my God consultants are earning €250k plus private income ... ergo the entire PS should take at least a 50% pay cut .......


    I dont think even the most hardened ps bashers would say 50% but there is a lot of waste and there are a lot of high earners who could be cut in teh public sector


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    #86
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭creedp


    fliball123 wrote: »
    I dont think even the most hardened ps bashers would say 50% but there is a lot of waste and there are a lot of high earners who could be cut in teh public sector


    Absolutely agree there is a lot of waste and there are a lot of high earners in the public sector .. my difficulty is referring to the pay of consultants or top PS brass in general and using this as a reason to slash pay across the entire PS. That's all ..


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    #87
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    creedp wrote: »
    Absolutely agree there is a lot of waste and there are a lot of high earners in the public sector .. my difficulty is referring to the pay of consultants or top PS brass in general and using this as a reason to slash pay across the entire PS. That's all ..


    True but you have exaggerated the 50% cut I have been on here a while and have not seen any reference to 50% pay cut.....But something needs to be done on the spend side..we are currently paying more tax than predicted but its been whipped out by the spend as it is increasing aswell..


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    #88
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭creedp


    fliball123 wrote: »
    True but you have exaggerated the 50% cut I have been on here a while and have not seen any reference to 50% pay cut.....But something needs to be done on the spend side..we are currently paying more tax than predicted but its been whipped out by the spend as it is increasing aswell..


    All I was doing was referring to the sweeping generalisations that have abounded in all media in recent times to the effect that all private sector workers have taken up to 50% pay cuts so I assumed that the same should apply to the PS. Simplistic I know .. but my big problem is the inappropriate use of sweeping generalisations


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    #89
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Don't turn this into a public-private fight, please.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #90
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭creedp


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Don't turn this into a public-private fight, please.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw

    Apologies


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    #91
    mac_iomhair
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭mac_iomhair


    The truth is we have no power in Europe, what the Irish people want is totally irrelevant to the European leaders, we are too small and insignificant to even be a bleep on the European radar.
    A yes vote or a No vote will make no difference to that. The ESM would have went on ahead without an Irish vote regardless. It takes other countries such as Spain and now perhaps France to argue their way for us. We will look for scraps off the table like a tired hungry old dog. But a very well mannered and trained dog at that. They may say 'Good dog', 'Good boy' and we will feel very good about ourselves.
    :eek:


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