Glenn Pendlay is p*ssed - nutrition rant, must read

Hanley

Fantastic 5 parter that I'm sure some of you have seen. VERY relevant considering all the talks about nutrition and kids on the forum at the mo...

http://glennpendlay.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/im-pissed/

ferike1

Its all about education! Educating people so they know what they are putting in their bellies

Brian?

Dead right. You want to see some of the crap they try to pass off as health food.

Mickk

I had heard of Vitamin water before but I was amazed when I was in the states to see that it had 33 grams of sugar per 500ml bottle! Now that's a misleading name...

ferike1

You could just do what the Japanese did (and only 3% of their population is obese, probably the sumo wrestlers ) and fine companies whose employees are overweight and over the age of 40, I think they used waistline as a measure. 33.5 inches for men and 35 for women. Companies then encourage their employees to lose weight!

Barry.Oglesby

ferike1 wrote: »

You could just do what the Japanese did (and only 3% of their population is obese, probably the sumo wrestlers ) and fine companies whose employees are overweight and over the age of 40, I think they used waistline as a measure. 33.5 inches for men and 35 for women. Companies then encourage their employees to lose weight!

Well that's pretty draconian. It's also not working. The Japanese are getting fatter by the minute thanks to their changing diets.

A better shot might be to increase the notion of personal and civic responsibility. Though this will have limited impact since its the companies, not the consumers, who decide what's for sale on our shelves.

ferike1

In 2005, the Japanese Obesity rate was 3.2% as per OECD, in 2011 it was 3.9%. While there has been an increase, the speed at which it is happening doesn't seem to be as fast as EU or US. While I agree their diets are changing but maybe something is working as the rate of increase is slower.

WeeBushy

It's better to address the cause rather than the symptom in the long run. Education really is the key imo. Far too many people simply don't know what's healthy and what's not.

Barry.Oglesby

ferike1 wrote: »

In 2005, the Japanese Obesity rate was 3.2% as per OECD, in 2011 it was 3.9%. While there has been an increase, the speed at which it is happening doesn't seem to be as fast as EU or US. While I agree their diets are changing but maybe something is working as the rate of increase is slower.

What that doesn't tell you is that there was no obesity to speak of up until a few years back, and .7% in 6 years of a population without a history of obesity is massive.

.7% of 130million is almost an extra 1 million obese people... in 6 years.

banquet

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Well that's pretty draconian. It's also not working. The Japanese are getting fatter by the minute thanks to their changing diets.

A better shot might be to increase the notion of personal and civic responsibility. Though this will have limited impact since its the companies, not the consumers, who decide what's for sale on our shelves.

Do companies not decide whats on our shelves though based on consumer behaviour?

Barry.Oglesby

banquet wrote: »

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Well that's pretty draconian. It's also not working. The Japanese are getting fatter by the minute thanks to their changing diets.

A better shot might be to increase the notion of personal and civic responsibility. Though this will have limited impact since its the companies, not the consumers, who decide what's for sale on our shelves.

Do companies not decide whats on our shelves though based on consumer behaviour?

Interestingly enough, no.

That's what should happen, but here's what actually happens.

Food us a commodity, like oil or copper. Most of these commodities are inedible, they require extreme refinement to render them into palatable form, and companies go to great lengths to do this. The reason that they do is because there is a tremendous profit margin in foodstuffs like grains due to their massive yields, ease of storage, resistance to pestilence(especially newer gm crops) and of course their variability. In other words I can sell you a pepper in a finite number of ways, but I can put corn in almost anything and you may not even know it's there.

So let's say a man in a lab says "I can increase corn yields next year by 20% using additive X". Companies don't say "but we have enough corn" they say "corn is very profitable. We need to find places to put this 20% more corn". So they go to R&D and say "we need a corn based line of products, and make it snappy'!" and the R&D guys say "swell!"... I imagine this all taking place in the 1950s, I don't know why.

So once the R&D guys come out with their corn based pizza (that prOduct already exists yuck) or what have you, the marketing department takes over and convinces Mum that she can feed the family in seconds and they'll smile around the table and do on. The supermarche gets a new stand and the tv spots get bigger and brighter. Hey presto.

It's the way consumerism is supposed to work... only in reverse...

J-Fit

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Interestingly enough, no.

That's what should happen, but here's what actually happens.

Food us a commodity, like oil or copper. Most of these commodities are inedible, they require extreme refinement to render them into palatable form, and companies go to great lengths to do this. The reason that they do is because there is a tremendous profit margin in foodstuffs like grains due to their massive yields, ease of storage, resistance to pestilence(especially newer gm crops) and of course their variability. In other words I can sell you a pepper in a finite number of ways, but I can put corn in almost anything and you may not even know it's there.

So let's say a man in a lab says "I can increase corn yields next year by 20% using additive X". Companies don't say "but we have enough corn" they say "corn is very profitable. We need to find places to put this 20% more corn". So they go to R&D and say "we need a corn based line of products, and make it snappy'!" and the R&D guys say "swell!"... I imagine this all taking place in the 1950s, I don't know why.

So once the R&D guys come out with their corn based pizza (that prOduct already exists yuck) or what have you, the marketing department takes over and convinces Mum that she can feed the family in seconds and they'll smile around the table and do on. The supermarche gets a new stand and the tv spots get bigger and brighter. Hey presto.

It's the way consumerism is supposed to work... only in reverse...

Like these? http://www.planters.com/cornnuts/

New snack of the UFC!

squod

am pissed that there is not a public outrage about the smiling proud mothers on the TV commercials giving their kids pop tarts for breakfast and pizza pockets for a snack.

Who the fuhk can afford that crap anymore? Glen should live in my house for a week. Y'know in the real world.

Barry.Oglesby

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Interestingly enough, no.

That's what should happen, but here's what actually happens.

Food us a commodity, like oil or copper. Most of these commodities are inedible, they require extreme refinement to render them into palatable form, and companies go to great lengths to do this. The reason that they do is because there is a tremendous profit margin in foodstuffs like grains due to their massive yields, ease of storage, resistance to pestilence(especially newer gm crops) and of course their variability. In other words I can sell you a pepper in a finite number of ways, but I can put corn in almost anything and you may not even know it's there.

So let's say a man in a lab says "I can increase corn yields next year by 20% using additive X". Companies don't say "but we have enough corn" they say "corn is very profitable. We need to find places to put this 20% more corn". So they go to R&D and say "we need a corn based line of products, and make it snappy'!" and the R&D guys say "swell!"... I imagine this all taking place in the 1950s, I don't know why.

So once the R&D guys come out with their corn based pizza (that prOduct already exists yuck) or what have you, the marketing department takes over and convinces Mum that she can feed the family in seconds and they'll smile around the table and do on. The supermarche gets a new stand and the tv spots get bigger and brighter. Hey presto.

It's the way consumerism is supposed to work... only in reverse...

And they get paid whether they sell the corn or not, so there's no risk even when they eventually reach the point that corn and derivatives can't be squeezed into anything else.

El Horseboxo

squod wrote: »

am pissed that there is not a public outrage about the smiling proud mothers on the TV commercials giving their kids pop tarts for breakfast and pizza pockets for a snack.

Who the fuhk can afford that crap anymore? Glen should live in my house for a week. Y'know in the real world.

Who can afford junk food? Most people I imagine. It's usually the cheapest and the food category that always gets the good deals such as 3 for 2 or buy one get one free. Try factoring in non salted cashews, turkey mince, lean steak mince etc and see who eats what cheaper over the course of a week. Bag of wedges = 1 euro and will cover a few meals. A sweet potato for the same price might do you for 2 meals.

banquet

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

banquet wrote: »

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Well that's pretty draconian. It's also not working. The Japanese are getting fatter by the minute thanks to their changing diets.

A better shot might be to increase the notion of personal and civic responsibility. Though this will have limited impact since its the companies, not the consumers, who decide what's for sale on our shelves.

Do companies not decide whats on our shelves though based on consumer behaviour?

Interestingly enough, no.

That's what should happen, but here's what actually happens.

Food us a commodity, like oil or copper. Most of these commodities are inedible, they require extreme refinement to render them into palatable form, and companies go to great lengths to do this. The reason that they do is because there is a tremendous profit margin in foodstuffs like grains due to their massive yields, ease of storage, resistance to pestilence(especially newer gm crops) and of course their variability. In other words I can sell you a pepper in a finite number of ways, but I can put corn in almost anything and you may not even know it's there.

So let's say a man in a lab says "I can increase corn yields next year by 20% using additive X". Companies don't say "but we have enough corn" they say "corn is very profitable. We need to find places to put this 20% more corn". So they go to R&D and say "we need a corn based line of products, and make it snappy'!" and the R&D guys say "swell!"... I imagine this all taking place in the 1950s, I don't know why.

So once the R&D guys come out with their corn based pizza (that prOduct already exists yuck) or what have you, the marketing department takes over and convinces Mum that she can feed the family in seconds and they'll smile around the table and do on. The supermarche gets a new stand and the tv spots get bigger and brighter. Hey presto.

It's the way consumerism is supposed to work... only in reverse...

Understood, and I agree with what you say regarding marketing guys creating needs and demands for new more profitable products which may not have existed before. My point is that, though education and civic responsibility as has been suggested, people may desire more healthy food and suppliers will meet this need. Kind of like the organic food movement.

banquet

banquet wrote: »

Understood, and I agree with what you say regarding marketing guys creating needs and demands for new more profitable products which may not have existed before. My point is that, though education and civic responsibility as has been suggested, people may desire more healthy food and suppliers will meet this need. Kind of like the organic food movement.

The organic food movement is hardly making a dent and it's almost only popular among people who would've been eating well anyway.
The trouble with this topic is that it's too easier to seem like a conspiracy theorist nut. :pac: Basically the food industry along with governments is rotten to the core with special interests on all sides. Think about things like tobacco, the EU spends hundreds of millions a year on one side on tobacco subsidies while spending on the other end to encourage people to cease. I assume the stated reason is to "protect small communities or enterprises" or something along those lines. The Irish government for one set a minimum price on tobacco products guaranteeing profit margins for the companies. It was found to be illegal in each court to the end in Europe but I don't think they've removed the minimum price. Say the taxes on a box add up to 7 quid and they set the minimum price at 8, supposedly to discourage smoking. If that was their aim they could have the taxes at 8 instead, would increase the price, increase their revenues (possibly) but would hit the tobacco companies.
Now imagine this on a much greater scale with grains and the like. Food is necessary, controlling food prices is a good thing (according to politicians) and farmers' groups and food companies etc. are all dying to grow as much as possible. Grains are easy to grow on a large scale and now can be pumped into absolutely anything and the vested interests have their stakes set well as it is.
Just look at government healthy eating advice. Grains, grains, grains. Low fat. Suggestions in the US to put a 5c tax or something on a can of fizzy drinks, the same HFCS-based drinks they're bloody well subsidising in the first place. Hell in America they chuck a load of HFCS into bread even, gotta use all the grain somehow!
What's the latest from the US government? That food pyramid thing isn't working, let's change the shape of the graph, that'll make a difference.

Anyway yeah, too many vested interests is the long and the short of it. :pac:

ferike1

I don't buy the whole junk food is cheaper, okay meat can be expensive but frozen veg, oats and eggs are not and are all healthy! (Just some examples!) I do my shopping at aldi and its great quality and cheap imo.

That stuff about reverse consumerism is interesting btw. Thanks!

UL_heart_throb

ferike1 wrote: »

I don't buy the whole junk food is cheaper

Well you're wrong.

Gummy Panda

ferike1 wrote: »

I don't buy the whole junk food is cheaper, okay meat can be expensive but frozen veg, oats and eggs are not and are all healthy! (Just some examples!) I do my shopping at aldi and its great quality and cheap imo.

That stuff about reverse consumerism is interesting btw. Thanks!

Depends where you shop. Go to Iceland and you'll get a lot of junk for your buck

TimeToShine

ferike1 wrote: »

I don't buy the whole junk food is cheaper, okay meat can be expensive but frozen veg, oats and eggs are not and are all healthy! (Just some examples!) I do my shopping at aldi and its great quality and cheap imo.

That stuff about reverse consumerism is interesting btw. Thanks!

you can get 3 pizzas for a fiver in tesco, add an extra euro and you've a bag of wedges which is 3 nights worth of dinner

6 euro will buy you 4 or 5 chicken breasts which you'd easily get through in a day and a half.

meat is expensive here compared to in the US, and over there i'm sure junk is even cheaper.

it's a vicious cycle.

ferike1

I never argued that meat is cheap here. Fair enough junk food is cheap (I conceed that) but healthy food can be too. A large bag of oats is cheap as hell. Go to a middle eastern/indian/asian emporium and pick up a huge bag of basmati rice for a tenner and that will last you til the next zombie apocalypse. Natural yoghurt is like 60c a pot and eat half of that with banana and its basically a meal. Eggs and milk are pretty cheap as are tins of tuna. You could also pick up a whole chicken for 4-6 euro and make soup out of it which would last a good few days.

Oryx

The problem with those cheap healthy options is that they require thought to plan and prepare. You open a pizza and bung it in the oven. Add to that the fact that the cheap junk food is packed with flavouring to make it taste very good, and very strong, and youre beginning to lose the battle. Peoples taste buds aren't used to more subtle natural flavours anymore. Then put a marketing machine behind the whole thing and you see why junk always wins.

ferike1

That's fair enough.

I think for me personally a lot of it comes down to the fact that my mom would always have home cooked dinners for us, she'd make a huge batch of something which would last a good few days (a habit I now picked up myself). And growing up in South Africa meant that a snack would be some kind of fruit (dirt cheap over there) rather than a chocolate bar, so if someone hands me an apple I am content

Ddad

Oryx wrote: »

The problem with those cheap healthy options is that they require thought to plan and prepare. You open a pizza and bung it in the oven. Add to that the fact that the cheap junk food is packed with flavouring to make it taste very good, and very strong, and youre beginning to lose the battle. Peoples taste buds aren't used to more subtle natural flavours anymore. Then put a marketing machine behind the whole thing and you see why junk always wins.

Add to that that there has been a massive deskilling of this generation compared to our parents generation in cooking skills. So preparing a simple meal to many is daunting. "She couldn't boil an egg" is far more common these days

So convenience foods work on a whole load of levels, cheap, satisfying, easy to prepare, easy to eat, visually appealing........it goes on.

Add to that that an unhealthy population requires massive ammounts of medical intervention and spends heavily on the fitness and diet indutries and you have a massive cash cow all round. That suits a lot of people

ferike1

Haha, schools should start teaching practical skills needed for everyday life again! How to boil an egg!

It is actually quite scary, I kid you not, a girl I know put a potato in pot, unwashed, unpeeled and in no water, turned the hob on and genuinely expected it to turn into mash...

Barry.Oglesby

http://grapplerman.com/2011/10/06/fat/

I put this on my blog when the so-called fat tax was proposed. Have a read.

Oryx

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

http://grapplerman.com/2011/10/06/fat/

I put this on my blog when the so-called fat tax was proposed. Have a read.

Great post. Its a pity more people dont see it like that.

ferike1

The problem is that once you start bringing class into it, it becomes more a touchier subject.

Also, great post Barry!

Zamboni

Ddad wrote: »

Add to that that there has been a massive deskilling of this generation compared to our parents generation in cooking skills.

Spot on. We're slowly being molded into the humans in Wall-E. Obese, helpless babies.
Which is why I agree with weebushy that you have to educate.
We are too far removed from the reality of food production.
Kids should go to abattoirs, farms, fishing etc and learn where their food comes from and how to prepare it.

ferike1

Lol, I'd settle if they taught people how to boil an egg first!

hollypink

Heard this on RTE this morning http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0601/new-york-mayor-wants-sugary-drinks-ban.html

The Mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg, has called for a ban on the sale of large-sized containers of sugary drinks in an attempt to tackle obesity.

I wonder if measures like this will have an impact?

I know restaurants in New York are legally obliged to display calorie information http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14295093 which has apparently been somewhat successful

Although no overall decline in calories purchased was observed for the full sample, several major chains saw significant reductions. After regulation, one in six lunchtime customers used the calorie information provided, and these customers made lower calorie choices.

Zamboni

hollypink wrote: »

Heard this on RTE this morning http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0601/new-york-mayor-wants-sugary-drinks-ban.html


I wonder if measures like this will have an impact?

I know restaurants in New York are legally obliged to display calorie information http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14295093 which has apparently been somewhat successful

Hi can I have a supersize coke please?
No. We no longer sell them.

Oh, ok, can I have two large cokes please?

banquet

hollypink wrote: »

Heard this on RTE this morning http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0601/new-york-mayor-wants-sugary-drinks-ban.html


I wonder if measures like this will have an impact?

I know restaurants in New York are legally obliged to display calorie information http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14295093 which has apparently been somewhat successful

Not restaurants, just fast food chains and other franchises like Subway. Just worth noting because it may not be feasible for a regular restaurant to have all its food tested for calories (I'm assuming this is how its done)

squod

El Horseboxo wrote: »

Who can afford junk food? Most people I imagine. It's usually the cheapest and the food category that always gets the good deals such as 3 for 2 or buy one get one free. Try factoring in non salted cashews, turkey mince, lean steak mince etc and see who eats what cheaper over the course of a week. Bag of wedges = 1 euro and will cover a few meals. A sweet potato for the same price might do you for 2 meals.

I can get two kg of carrots sometimes for less than 50c. There's all kinds of offers on at different times. Whether it's the butchers, the grocers or the supermarkets.

Glen is probably believing what he is seeing on those scandal shows on TV. The same ones I don't have time to watch.

ray jay

squod wrote: »

I can get two kg of carrots sometimes for less than 50c. There's all kinds of offers on at different times. Whether it's the butchers, the grocers or the supermarkets.

Glen is probably believing what he is seeing on those scandal shows on TV. The same ones I don't have time to watch.

As Barry mentions in his blog post above, it's not just cost but also convenience that pushes people towards consuming crappy food. I'm sure we've all been in the situation where we either don't have much time or couldn't be bothered whipping up a meal from scratch so we just have pizza or whatever instead.

xgtdec

Is it wrong of me not to want people to be fit and strong and healthy......thats my thing, all my friends and family relate to me as the fit one, "we just Dont know how how he does it" is often heard at family get togethers.....thats part of my drug..part of my addiction to being fit and strong and trying to get fitter and stronger and it sets me...and you guys, apart from the masses.....it earns me respect because im doing it where the masses sit and wish they could!!

Now i know thats wrong...deep down i know we should be striving for a fit and healthy population......but really and truly..would you feel better if everyone was in as great a shape as you?? or would it take the shine off your own achievements?

Do fit people need fat people to make it all worthwhile??

Barry.Oglesby

Yeah I think maybe your love of being slightly fitter than the average punter might just be a manifestation of some deeper rooted internal conflicts. Maybe go to the Berlin Love Parade this year, hang around, meet some people broaden your horizons and when the time comes, go with your heart...

Back to the discussion everyone.

ferike1

Obviously the fact that by and large most jobs require people to just sit around all day don't help either.

xgtdec

That's intended to be part of the discussion, nice of you to blow it off in a smug smartarse way..........perhaps you've spent too long in Berlin yourself!!

cmyk

Zamboni wrote: »

Spot on. We're slowly being molded into the humans in Wall-E. Obese, helpless babies.
Which is why I agree with weebushy that you have to educate.
We are too far removed from the reality of food production.
Kids should go to abattoirs, farms, fishing etc and learn where their food comes from and how to prepare it.

I agree with the education bit too, I don't think you necessarily have to go to abattoirs though, the classroom would be a big leap in itself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGYs4KS_djg

Barry.Oglesby

xgtdec wrote: »

That's intended to be part of the discussion, nice of you to blow it off in a smug smartarse way..........perhaps you've spent too long in Berlin yourself!!

Smug... you say you like to be the fit guy and like others being fat, but I'm smug?

And yes the Berlin love parade is awesome. I would never give a travel recommendation blindly.

drdeadlift

If your into your diet and training your in the minority as xgtdec was pointing out.
Im not going to get my knickers in a twist similar to Glen and i do agree with the point being made.It might take many years or personnel health consequences for people to educate themselves and open their ears on the subject of healthy eating.
Didnt we have some nugget from safe-foods on this board last year,we all know how that went.

ferike1

Good ol Dailymail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2137023/Why-FIT-new-rich-Who-cares-earn-car-drive-Now-youre-youve-run-marathon-Sahara-.html

FIT IS THE NEW RICH

And another interesting article about attitudes towards obesity

http://gawker.com/5908787/being-mean-to-fat-people-is-pointless-a-good-old+fashioned-plea-for-civility?tag=obesity

Finally this one

http://gawker.com/5909157/obese-mothers-give-birth-to-less-intelligent-children?tag=obesity

The idea behind the final one is that obese mothers seem likely to give birth to less intelligent kids. Idiocracy/WALL - E world here we come!

WeeBushy

xgtdec wrote: »

Is it wrong of me not to want people to be fit and strong and healthy......thats my thing, all my friends and family relate to me as the fit one, "we just Dont know how how he does it" is often heard at family get togethers.....thats part of my drug..part of my addiction to being fit and strong and trying to get fitter and stronger and it sets me...and you guys, apart from the masses.....it earns me respect because im doing it where the masses sit and wish they could!!

Now i know thats wrong...deep down i know we should be striving for a fit and healthy population......but really and truly..would you feel better if everyone was in as great a shape as you?? or would it take the shine off your own achievements?

Do fit people need fat people to make it all worthwhile??

That's a little self-absorbed imo but hey, so what.

When we/I talk about promoting a healthy lifestyle I don't think people mean everyone should look like mickk, they more mean eating the right foods and work up a sweat a couple of times a week. I wouldn't be pushing for everyone to become fitness fanatics, just to have a basic level. You can still be 'the fit one'

If the general populace upped their fitness and health, would that not then spur you on to be in even better shape, which would be a good thing, right?

Brian?

TimeToShine wrote: »

ferike1 wrote: »

I don't buy the whole junk food is cheaper, okay meat can be expensive but frozen veg, oats and eggs are not and are all healthy! (Just some examples!) I do my shopping at aldi and its great quality and cheap imo.

That stuff about reverse consumerism is interesting btw. Thanks!

you can get 3 pizzas for a fiver in tesco, add an extra euro and you've a bag of wedges which is 3 nights worth of dinner

6 euro will buy you 4 or 5 chicken breasts which you'd easily get through in a day and a half.

meat is expensive here compared to in the US, and over there i'm sure junk is even cheaper.

it's a vicious cycle.

Believe it or not, beef is twice the price in the US as in Ireland. It's killing me.

You can get 20 boxes of twinkies for the price of a steak. That's the problem right there.

Kev M

Another thing to think about besides getting fat and having a heart attack, is being deficient in essential nutrients which leads to health problems later on in life or causes harm during pregnancy, because of the prevalence of worthless foods, particularly amongst the lower class population.

Rickets is on the rise in newborns.. yeah, that's the bone problem the malnourished third world babies have.. and its' coming back here because of crap food. A multivitamin taken by mothers would remedy this, but the education isn't there.

There's gonna be a subset of 20 year old junkies with shattered hips because their mothers lived on chip sandwiches..

ferike1

To be fair, if there is a zombie apocalypse one day I'd rather those type of zombies

ferike1

Interesting article about Paleo and how it is the way of the future. Also
gluten may be poison

http://io9.com/5917339/why-eating-like-a-caveman-may-be-the-way-of-the-future

Gummy Panda

ferike1 wrote: »

Interesting article about Paleo and how it is the way of the future. Also
gluten may be poison

http://io9.com/5917339/why-eating-like-a-caveman-may-be-the-way-of-the-future

And in 20 years time people will probably be saying paleo went the way of low fat and lead to more orthorexia

Zamboni

ferike1 wrote: »

Interesting article about Paleo and how it is the way of the future. Also
gluten may be poison

http://io9.com/5917339/why-eating-like-a-caveman-may-be-the-way-of-the-future

If paleo is the way of the future, the human species would want to drop back to a population of about 1.5 billion for sustainability. Bagsy in.