Cyberpunk - CD Project Red

The Specialist

pixelburp wrote: »

The posters there in the game, not like some niche Tumblr slash fiction so there's authorial intent, whether one likes it or not; but it's just a piece of set dressing latched onto by some harmless think pieces. The outrage in response to them is disproportionate and hilarious.

But that is the point I’m making - the type of people complaining about it need to have their viewpoint suffocated because it’s irrelevant. Political correctness does nothing but suck the fun and life out of everything it touches. Why pander to them at all? Take the sign out of the game and drop any transgender characters from it - nobody is going to give a ****.

Robert ninja

Game outlets' obsessions with maturity is just another example of their continued disconnect with consumers.

C.S. Lewis wrote:

Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.

dreamers75

pixelburp wrote: »

If you think science fiction can't / doesn't tackle big weighty subjects on society, politics or humanity then frankly you're only fooling yourself. It's practically the reason the genre was invented by Shelley et al.

No issue with that in a book or movie/cartoon about said topic, in a game where I am cyber enhanced ninja with knives for arms, im probably not that interested in it. Because its a game, it doesnt need "tone" it needs good gameplay everything after that is secondary.

Potential-Monke

I've a habit of derailing topics lately... Enough of this, back to the game!

pixelburp

The Specialist wrote: »

But that is the point I’m making - the type of people complaining about it need to have their viewpoint suffocated because it’s irrelevant. Political correctness does nothing but suck the fun and life out of everything it touches. Why pander to them at all? Take the sign out of the game and drop any transgender characters from it - nobody is going to give a ****.

One poster is hardly pandering, cmon. And it's not even meant to be that PC, the point of the poster if you read the chat with the artist was that companies had ramped up sexuality in advertising to the Nth degree in this corporate dystopia. Anywhere on the spectrum really if it sells. You'd never get away with a bulging penis in reality, regardless of who it was attached to. That's ultimately the point of it if you choose to go beyond the headline and the kneejerk ranting about PC this or that.

And again, it won't stop the game, and will likely make up a small percentage. But instead you're triggered by the idea of some folks choosing to debate that percentage. Not even that, getting angry about the potential of that percentage that's a lot of wasted energy IMO

I have to laugh because this was in the news a day before it appeared on Boards, thus proving my point: you're choosing to get annoyed by it all, only cos you read about others discussing something hitherto unknown.

pixelburp

dreamers75 wrote: »

No issue with that in a book or movie/cartoon about said topic, in a game where I am cyber enhanced ninja with knives for arms, im probably not that interested in it. Because its a game, it doesnt need "tone" it needs good gameplay everything after that is secondary.

Naw, it can be both and honestly if you're literally building out a world to play and interact with its fair game to flesh out the world you're living in with stories and yes, tone.

Cyberpunk is ALL subtext, this is like the nonsense with Unisoft saying The Division isn't political. You can't swim in the waters and not get wet.

BloodBath

I think most of us don't care at all. No interest in reading the article or the intentions behind the picture.

Yes there are people outraged on both sides. Who cares?

It has almost no relevance to the game and is not worth discussing in depth unless you obsess about this kind of thing which Kotaku certainly do.

The annoyance comes from talking about Kotaku articles. I specifically avoid that site for a reason. I have no interest in discussing yet another gender politics related article from them.

Zero-Cool

Some very light lore from cyberpunk creator Mike Pondsmith, seems like such a cool guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E42D2XF2oAs

Dyr

BloodBath wrote: »

Maturing media in reference to the likes of Kotaku is a bit rich. Practically nobody want's to discuss this but as usual they focus on it. Granted CDPR did initiate it.

Cybernetic augmentation is already a good enough analogy without having to drive home the point.

It has nothing to do with political themes in gaming. That old smokescreen was blown away long ago.

It's journo activists operating on Castros dictum "“Within the Revolution, everything. Against the Revolution, nothing” . Their primary concern is always whether or not a game or the company conforms to their world view, if it does then its lauded regardless of its actual merit, if it does not then it will be attacked regardless of its actual merit

If they were writing game reviews for the Morning Star that might be a recipe for success.

Just imagine a creeping jesus from the 80s who always asks "Is this acceptable to me as a Christian?" for any entertainment they come across and you have an idea of the mindset. Latter day zealots.

It's not coincidence that the company who made the greatest RPG of their time don't pander to these weirdos.

Robert ninja

Bambi wrote: »

Just imagine a creeping jesus from the 80s who always asks "Is this acceptable to me as a Christian?"

That's funny because CCG, a christian game review site has been more honest and fair with its reviews making it a rule to list any biases and has a hard stance on financially driven coverage. I'd sooner trust them than people who thought Witcher 3 was problematic because *gasp* white people.


Anyway one of my fave lads yongyea doing a QnA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKOPkKmDi8I

dreamers75

pixelburp wrote: »

Naw, it can be both and honestly if you're literally building out a world to play and interact with its fair game to flesh out the world you're living in with stories and yes, tone.

Cyberpunk is ALL subtext, this is like the nonsense with Unisoft saying The Division isn't political. You can't swim in the waters and not get wet.

The obivous retort to that is Deus Ex (Old and New) it built a world you could interact with and affect, it had solid gameplay tho* And missions with choices that changed your experience.

I didnt look or notice any of this offensive stuff in those games but I enjoyed them because of the gameplay.

* even the new ones just not as good as the old ones.

Zero-Cool

Robert ninja wrote: »

.

Anyway one of my fave lads yongyea doing a QnA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKOPkKmDi8I

That's a great interview, you definitely got a few questions in there between censorship and can you play as mostly human.

All sounding really good but disappointed in no cyber Gwent

johnny_ultimate

dreamers75 wrote: »

No issue with that in a book or movie/cartoon about said topic, in a game where I am cyber enhanced ninja with knives for arms, im probably not that interested in it. Because its a game, it doesnt need "tone" it needs good gameplay everything after that is secondary.

This kind of claim drives me up the wall It's just such a weirdly narrow way to look at games in their modern form.

If Cyberpunk 2077 is just a 'cyber ninja sim', it'd frankly be a real disappointment. Everything we've seen so far suggests CD Projekt Red are building one of the most insanely lavish, detailed game worlds we've ever seen - full of life, ideas, atmosphere. By all accounts effort is being put into it to allow a range of approaches and experiences depending on the player's own preferences. It IMO also does their work a profound disservice to dismiss all that world-building, attention to aesthetics and (hopefully!) strong writing as mere secondary concerns to the slashy knifey stuff. It will be almost certainly be a bigger, richer game than just another badass action game, which are a dime a dozen. It'll be that if you want it to be, but thankfully much more besides.

This game, obvious from its very title, is drawing on a rich subgenre of science fiction, and I'm not really sure how it *just* being a game somehow limits its capacity in that sense. I mean, this itself is based on a tabletop game that explores ideas such as mega-capitalism (with megacorporations that less-than-subtly reference real world companies), body modification, socio-economic collapse, hacking culture, revolutionary movements etc... All these elements of the fiction are as intrinsic to its identity as combat mechanics.

Look at the Witcher 3. I'm digging into that again a bit at the moment, and what's standing out isn't the frankly often quite ordinary combat or ****ty horse riding. It's the world and the player-driven storytelling and the attention to detail. It's a pleasure to play not just because you're a fire-casting badass, but because it's an immaculately crafted and thoughtful game in so many respects. The 'gameplay' in the traditional sense couldn't support itself without all the obvious craft put into every element of that massive, complex piece of work. We don't remember the Bloody Baron quest for the fights.

And one important thing to stress when most people want games to be more 'political' or engaged: this is not the same as demanding they be more 'woke'. It's calling on developers to really dig in and explore the themes they're putting out there, to not just use interesting ideas and settings as empty background for shootin' **** (coughubisoftcough). Works like Nueromancer or Akira or Blade Runner are deeply politically and socially engaged works that remain acclaimed and deeply respected, but they're hardly 'woke'. To me, it'd be such a shame if CDPR didn't use Cyberpunk to properly dig into those amazing ideas and concepts that come with the territory - and which, thankfully, they seem perfectly happy to dig into. If I want cyber ninja nonsense, I'll install Metal Gear Rising again - for Cyberpunk, I don't think I'm being particularly unreasonable to expect more

Varik

Zero-Cool wrote: »

That's a great interview, you definitely got a few questions in there between censorship and can you play as mostly human.

All sounding really good but disappointed in no cyber Gwent

Gwent proper got some flair.

Robert ninja

Honestly they should outright just inject the standalone Gwent game into CP2077 as mini game you can play on computers in that world . Connect it up with your gog account and you can carry all the progress. I myself have enough scrap from playing Gwent in its beta to craft every card available + tons of cosmetic currency.

Mr Crispy

It repeats some stuff we already know, but there's a couple of extra snippets gleaned from the behind the scenes demo here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8W3oX0dDD8

Zero-Cool

I know there are a ton of Cyberpunk books but can anyone recommend books for the lore and not how to play the tabletop game?

Mickeroo

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I know there are a ton of Cyberpunk books but can anyone recommend books for the lore and not how to play the tabletop game?

There's only two novels going by wikipedia, both terrible apparently:

The Ravengers (1995)
Holo Men (1996)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holo-Men-Cyberpunk-2-0-S/dp/0446602337/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=stephen+billias&qid=1560503842&s=books&sr=1-1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ravengers-Cyberpunk-2-0-Stephen-Billias/dp/0446602329/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=stephen+billias&qid=1560503862&s=books&sr=1-2

Zero-Cool

Mickeroo wrote: »

There's only two novels going by wikipedia, both terrible apparently:

The Ravengers (1995)
Holo Men (1996)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holo-Men-Cyberpunk-2-0-S/dp/0446602337/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=stephen+billias&qid=1560503842&s=books&sr=1-1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ravengers-Cyberpunk-2-0-Stephen-Billias/dp/0446602329/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=stephen+billias&qid=1560503862&s=books&sr=1-2

Yeah, not the best reviews on those. I might give Neuromancer a go to get into the setting as I've hear that's quite good but the author doesn't think much of Cyberpunk 2077

"The trailer for Cyberpunk 2077 strikes me as GTA skinned-over with a generic 80s retro-future, but hey, that's just me."

Sonics2k

In celebration this Keanu being added to this, I'll be watching the one and only Johnny Mnemonic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwl5MBzTCRQ

A whopping 80 Gbs of memory :pac:

jones

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Red Dead shouldn't be mentioned in the same light as The Wicher 3.
Eveb aside from the top drawer gameplay, the character building was my favourite in a game.
You spent 50-60 hours growing to know the characters so scenes like the one where they're drunk and taking off Vesemir (wearing his hat) are genuinely funny and engaging.

I had problems with Red Dead but the open world wasn't one of them. I thought it was incredible and on par with the witcher 3 but with shinier graphics IMO. Both pinnacles of open world games

batgoat

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Yeah, not the best reviews on those. I might give Neuromancer a go to get into the setting as I've hear that's quite good but the author doesn't think much of Cyberpunk 2077

"The trailer for Cyberpunk 2077 strikes me as GTA skinned-over with a generic 80s retro-future, but hey, that's just me."

Snowcrash is very accessible and a great read...

Mickeroo

batgoat wrote: »

Snowcrash is very accessible and a great read...

And ****s all over that ready player one rubbish that ripped it off 20 years later....

batgoat

Mickeroo wrote: »

And ****s all over that ready player one rubbish that ripped it off 20 years later....

Yep such a fun read...

Potential-Monke

I think what dreamers was getting at is that you can create this amazing world full of political, social and economic views, interesting characters and dialogue, but unless the gameplay is good it doesn't matter, for some people. I'm one of them. If the gameplay doesn't hook me, I won't enjoy it. Take Journey for example, lauded by critics and fans alike as an amazing experience, and it did look beautiful. I missed the whole hidden commentary thing, because I don't look for that in games. In the end, the gameplay was only ok, imo, so I never returned to it. Similar to the 'walking simulators', I won't play them because the gameplay is not interesting to me, even if there are amazing worlds and stories built around them (ie: that Edith Finch game, it just doesn't interest me because there's no 'real' gameplay).

On the flip, you could have amazing gameplay but a terrible world (ie: Rage 2), which is also not fun. So while dreamers was stating everything after the gameplay is secondary I would agree. Take the Call of Duty series for example. I wasn't buying them for the campaign, and the multiplayer is basically the same with different features for each game (same can be said of any MP game really), but I still buy them annually and play them throughout the year (for most of them). This is a prime example of everything coming second to the gameplay, because I believe that the majority of the CoDs had amazing gameplay.

But, like everything, it's all subjective.

Fourier

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I know there are a ton of Cyberpunk books but can anyone recommend books for the lore and not how to play the tabletop game?

The Night City book has detailed descriptions of the city and America's political climate, but ultimately no all the books with setting information are still largely intended as tabletop tools.

Zero-Cool

Okay, go to this page https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/auramis/

Click on the last S on the line 'CYBERPUNK.NET/AURAMIS' (under the line connection established)

This will download a rar file protected by password.

Password is Johnny Silverhand.

The archive has another archive inside that's locked and also has a text file that reads:
"Things will happen.

Plans in motion.

Wait for more."

All hacked from Reddit :cool:

Smiles35

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Okay, go to this page https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/auramis/

Click on the last S on the line 'CYBERPUNK.NET/AURAMIS' (under the line connection established)

This will download a rar file protected by password.

Password is Johnny Silverhand.

The archive has another archive inside that's locked and also has a text file that reads:
"Things will happen.

Plans in motion.

Wait for more."

All hacked from Reddit :cool:

Love that. A nice challenge for people. Must be people trying every Cyperpunk related word as we speak.

EoinHef

RDR2 is a perfect example of a game where the world was painstakingly built but its totally let down by the mechanics of the game.

I personally dont think a well crafted world can make up for a lack of or lousey mechancis.

Walking sims for example,some people will never enjoy them as they feel theres nothing to do in them.

Walking around the place to find triggers that will push an average narrative forward is not gaming,its more interactive story,and im stretching the definition of interactive here. Maybe explorable story would be better description.

Who here would want to play cyberpunk 2077 amd its beautiful looking world if all you could do was talk to other characters? No interaction apart from that,no skills,no guns,no progression other than the narrative? I know i wouldnt!

Zero-Cool

This is great. Most people would have seen Parris's reaction coming out of the closed demo last year. Well this year, he came out to a round of applause from the CDPR crew.

2018
https://twitter.com/godfree/status/1007102668500754432?s=19


2019
https://twitter.com/godfree/status/1139341446580846592?s=19