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Sinn Fein- Never forget
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Indeed Kingsmill was a terrible tragedy but you should really read the link below and see the climate of fear among Catholics that existed in South Armagh at that time, very chilling stuff. There were atrocities on both sides but with state collusion in this case.The different between you and me in this, is that I condemn the Loyalist terror groups and the Republican terro groups for their sundry massacres and atrocities, whereas you seek only to absolve the IRA of their responsibility. Kingmill was rogue, Enniskillen was rogue, anything that should shame the IRA is rogue...how bloody convenient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenanne_gang0 -
Crooked Jack wrote: »Some 800 civilians were killed by the IRA. Every one of them wrong and a tragedy. During the course of the Troubles the IRA detonated some 10,000 bombs and carried out countless shootings. If the IRA were targeting civilians they were very bad at it. I think it's quite obvious they were not.
True I suppose, bit like drunk drivers intend to get home, they don't intend to kill anybody.
Anyway, the proxy bomb does drive a hole in that argument, murder of Patsy Gillespie doesn't even do that justice.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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I could see the G2 disbanding, burning most of it's file system, and a lot of American companies getting letters telling them that they can't make any software/hardware that would be used in the American military pending an inquiry on whether or not SF is a treat. Oh, I'm sure the inquiry has already been done, this inquiry will just be the public one.I'd be more then a little sceptical of Sinn Féin making any significant difference to Irish politics if they did enter Government
I wonder how many jobs will be lost when SF starts to "fairly":rolleyes: tax the large foreign companies that have lots of money (ie; the ones who give jobs to lots of people)?
It's a fact that those in prison where in prison for the manslaughter of Jerry McCabe, and that those who were convicted of the manslaughter of Jerry McCabe were picked up from outside the prison my Martin Ferris. It's unknown which of them pulled the trigger, and thus unknown which one murdered Jerry McCabe, but it was one of them. So although technically it'd be wrong to say that Martin Ferris picked up murderers, he did pick up one.As for this sentence: "It is also important to remember that it was Martin Ferris who picked up the murderers (because this is what they are;" - it is easy to make such a libellous statement from behind the safety of mamma Internet's skirts, but I know you would never have the courage to make such a statement under your own name.
As for saying such a statement under my own name; no. I'd fear reprisals from people who would be passionate in defending the name of the IRA with shotguns and baseball bats, on me, my family, and my friends.
Google brings up nothing. Please name this person that Jerry McCabe shot at.Unlike most of the other victims, he was armed with a deadly weapon, well trained in its use - and he was a killer himself, having shot a young man whose name I bet you forget.
His car was rammed, the men got out, and shot McCabe with an AK-47 - McCabe never got a chance to use his gun.At least he had a chance to defend himself.:)
Probably because they do a great job up the North, and have some great ideas to do down here. Unfortunately, they forget to include how they'd fund all of the activities, and also that the UK and Ireland pump a lot of money into NI every year.As for your question about why so many people vote for Sinn Fein
I think the IRA claims to be attacking British rule. Jerry McCabe was a member of the police force from the Republic of Ireland, and thus not a member of the army/police force that the IRA claims to be fighting.Shea O'Meara wrote: »Why is Garda Gerry McCabe any different from a british soldier, civilian or police officer?0 -
I think this thread is missing the point. The OP would do better to examine how the main parties have alienated this country's citizens to the point that Sinn Fein start to look electable.
I nearly voted SF in the last general election, such was my desire for change. Instead, I voted FG/Lab. That is not a mistake I'll be making again, although I think my reasoning was at least semi-sound at the time. So who does that leave? FF? Unthinkable. The Greens? The longer that two party stays dead, the happier I'll be. So that leaves Sinn Fein, independents, or abstention. I don't believe in abstaining, so its the shinners and the indies, except that to vote for independents alone doesn't really change much. And change is something this country desperately needs. Radical change. And that is where you start to take a longer look at SF, even with the dodgy baggage.
I'm not saying I would vote for them...and if I did, it would be with one hand firmly holding my nose, but what I am saying is that FF/FG/Labour and their supporters saying "at least we didn't murder people" isn't going to cut it any longer. If that's all they've got going for them, they're not fit for office. Actually, I already know that they're not fit for office, so what they say about SF is really neither here nor there in terms of assessing their own suitability.
In short, the rise of SF's popularity should not be seen so much as memory loss or wishful thinking on the part of the electorate, but rather as an indictment of the utter corruption, mendacity and incompetence of the mainstream parties.
Stork
(I'm actually keeping my fingers crossed for the emergence of a newer and more worthy party, in which case SF wouldn't be long sliding back down in the polls, I'd say. Hopeless optimism, I know...)0 -
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Gaffer91 sounds like he knows quite a bit about the troubles. Must have had a great view from his armchair.0
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Strange how you never hear the moral outrage from the usual suspects about nationalists who were killed, kids killed by plastic bullets etc. I wonder why that is. Is it faux outrage?
As for Jerry McCabe, I think it was tragic, but I don't blame the IRA members involved, Jerry lunged for his gun and at that stage it was kill or be killed... Something Jerry McCabe was more than capable of. Thats why the standing order of not attacking members of AGS was broken.
The men imprisoned should have been released under the GFA. I mean, in the eyes of "free staters" or the British how is what they did so many leagues worse than what others were imprisoned for and released under the GFA? I think its commendable that they released the following statement;"We deeply regret the death of Garda Jerry McCabe and the wounding of Garda Ben O’Sullivan during an IRA operation in Adare in June 1996. We deeply regret and apologise for this and the hurt and grief we have caused to their families. There was never any intent to attack any members of the Garda Siochána.
We are qualifying IRA prisoners under the Good Friday agreement. This has been confirmed by the High Court and the Supreme Court.
The Irish Government have an obligation to release us. They have refused to do so and are now presenting our release as an obstacle to negotiations and an agreement.
For this reason we do not want our release to be part of any further negotiations with the Irish government.
We are totally committed to the peace process. We will not allow ourselves to be used as political pawns or hostages to undermine this process. The cause of lasting peace is too important."
That said, I don't think they should have been out trying to commit the robbery.0 -
Fenian Army wrote: »As for Jerry McCabe, I think it was tragic, but I don't blame the IRA members involved, Jerry lunged for his gun and at that stage it was kill or be killed... Something Jerry McCabe was more than capable of. Thats why the standing order of not attacking members of AGS was broken.
Who did he kill before? Was it as part of his job as an armed detective?Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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And you wonder why our nation's problems never go away, we just love to argue about the past so much. He did this, and he did that and you should never forget about it. Well we don't go to the germans constantly and blame them for what one man did, so why should we do the same of SF. So some members of SF were in some form of the IRA, you have to think about how things were up in the north at those times.
Basically everything that happen in the north, was a chain reaction. That now has nearly finally stopped. So let's just let it go, ok it happen and no party or goverment are excluded from it. To think otherwise is idiocy.
Also about jerry McCabe, this quote by Bill will be my opion about it.
People say to me, "Bill, quit bringing up Kennedy, man. Let it go. It was a long time ago. Just forget about it." All right, then don't bring up Jesus to me. I mean, as long as we're talking shelf-life here. "You know, Bill, Jesus died for you …" Yeah, it was a long time ago. Forget about it. How about this: get Pilate to release the ****in' files. "Quit washing your hands, Pilate, and release the files. Who else was on that grassy Golgotha that day? Oh yeah, the three Roman peasants in $100 sandals. Yeah, right!"
In the end, SF is just like any other party. But everyone has there reason to vote for that party, likewise with FF or FG. Everyone has there reason to vote for them, and also you must respect there descion also for there vote of freedom. Now if you don't like it well tough luck, all you can do is vote for your party and hope that they win. But to on about how people should't vote for the or why do people vote for them is a bit sad, just leave it dude. Worry about your own party, and if it affects you that much that you have to write it up on boards and bothers you all the time well then take part in your party more often.
I don't condone any of the murders done by any group in Northern Ireland during the trouble times, but we must look at what happen and learn from our mistakes. Im pretty sure SF has themselves or at least some of them.0 -
I understand that he killed someone as part of his "job", might be wrong but the fact remains that he was armed and knew how to use it.Who did he kill before? Was it as part of his job as an armed detective?
I think it's sad, but I don't think he is more important than the many others who died, or that the views of his widow who the press chase after all the time matter any more than any other widow, or widower or those who lost a son, or daughter.
Its a bit like Madeline McCann, you'd be forgiven for thinking that she was the only little girl to vanish.
Its telling that in most of these threads people call him "Gerry McCabe", they don't even get his name right. Rather telling indeed.0 -
I'll elaborate further since you asked K-9 but I'll just say that I don't like talking ill of the dead. He was involved with the murder of Hugh Hehir who, reportedly was attempting to surrender. And was unarmed. I've also heard it said that Jerry McCabe was a nasty piece of work when it came to carrying out searches,/questioning etc and gloated about Hugh Hehirs killing to the mans family. Hence there was not that much grief in republican circles. I've also heard republicans say that it was murder in that the men wanted to kill McCabe out of revenge/retribution. I don't believe that though if they wanted to kill McCabe there were smarter, safer ways to go about it.0
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Fenian Army wrote: »I understand that he killed someone as part of his "job", might be wrong but the fact remains that he was armed and knew how to use it.
You make it sound as if all Gardai were killed in some sort of two way gun battle with the IRA. What about the various Gardai that were purposefully murdered by the IRA, who were not armed?
What about unarmed Garda Michael Clerkin, who was killed by an IRA booby trap? What about unarmed Garda Patrick Reynolds, who was shot in the back by INLA members as he attempted to flee for his life? What about the execution of unarmed Sgt Patrick Morrissey? SF have yet to condemn these murders or show any sign of serious remorse. The SF party is dominated by dubious characters to this day - some of whom have clearly made the transition to criminal activity following the implementation of the GFA. SF will continue to be viewed with scepticism as long as these characters remain within positions of power in the party.0 -
I was talking specifically about Jerry McCabe, that was clear I thought.Sierra Oscar wrote: »You make it sound as if all Gardai were killed in some sort of two way gun battle with the IRA. What about the various Gardai that were purposefully murdered by the IRA, who were not armed?
What about unarmed Garda Michael Clerkin, who was killed by an IRA booby trap? What about unarmed Garda Patrick Reynolds, who was shot in the back by INLA members as he attempted to flee for his life? What about the execution of unarmed Sgt Patrick Morrissey? SF have yet to condemn these murders or show any sign of serious remorse. The SF party is dominated by dubious characters to this day - some of whom have clearly made the transition to criminal activity following the implementation of the GFA.
I don't think it was acceptable to kill AGS at all, neither did the IRA hence the standing order.
If its so clear I'm sure you have tons of evidence/proof and AGS would love to chat with you.0 -
Monty Burnz wrote: »
No idea. How many current Irish politicians stand over political murder?invinciblePRSTV wrote: »How many current members of the Labour Party played an active role in IRA activities?
Hint: most of them belong to one party.
Hi, I am going to deliver this post with one objective in mind, the truth!
We have a quote from Monty Burnz & I quote, "How many current Irish politicians stand over political murder?"
What is political murder?
Murder is murder in my opinion.
I'm wondering where we aware of a murder in 1974 that took place involving a man that's now employed by this current govt? Larry White was Murdered & Bernard Lynch was one of the guys arrested & indeed charged with murder. I've looked into this case & it's believed that Bernard Lynch pulled the trigger. Bernard was released after a year, not because of his innocence, but because of a Warrent that was out of date!!!!! Bernard Lynch is married to Kathleen Lynch & both are employed by the current govt.
WHY is Bernard Lynch employed by the current govt & why is Labour do quiet about this?0 -
Fenian Army wrote: »I'll elaborate further since you asked K-9 but I'll just say that I don't like talking ill of the dead. He was involved with the murder of Hugh Hehir who, reportedly was attempting to surrender. And was unarmed. I've also heard it said that Jerry McCabe was a nasty piece of work when it came to carrying out searches,/questioning etc and gloated about Hugh Hehirs killing to the mans family. Hence there was not that much grief in republican circles. I've also heard republicans say that it was murder in that the men wanted to kill McCabe out of revenge/retribution. I don't believe that though if they wanted to kill McCabe there were smarter, safer ways to go about it.
I'd say the revenge/retribution was a little added bonus to the unauthorised IRA bank robbery myself. I wouldn't be surprised Republican circles had excuses or little sympathy, pretty par for the course tbh.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Can you provide any proof for a single element of this character assassination? Or is this just offensive bull that the Shinners tell each other to make his murder more palatable?Fenian Army wrote: »I'll elaborate further since you asked K-9 but I'll just say that I don't like talking ill of the dead. He was involved with the murder of Hugh Hehir who, reportedly was attempting to surrender. And was unarmed. I've also heard it said that Jerry McCabe was a nasty piece of work when it came to carrying out searches,/questioning etc and gloated about Hugh Hehirs killing to the mans family. Hence there was not that much grief in republican circles. I've also heard republicans say that it was murder in that the men wanted to kill McCabe out of revenge/retribution. I don't believe that though if they wanted to kill McCabe there were smarter, safer ways to go about it.
I heard from British sources that all the people killed on Bloody Sunday were paedophiles. Which makes it alright, I guess?0 -
Yes, this was widely reported recently and is hardly a secret. Why are Labour so quiet? What do you want them to say about it? I agree it's a disgrace that a possible Republican murderer is drawing money from the public purse - do you think that those with links to terrorism should be excluded from government roles?Wider Road wrote: »Monty Burnz wrote: »
No idea. How many current Irish politicians stand over political murder?invinciblePRSTV wrote: »How many current members of the Labour Party played an active role in IRA activities?
Hint: most of them belong to one party.
Hi, I am going to deliver this post with one objective in mind, the truth!
We have a quote from Monty Burnz & I quote, "How many current Irish politicians stand over political murder?"
What is political murder?
Murder is murder in my opinion.
I'm wondering where we aware of a murder in 1974 that took place involving a man that's now employed by this current govt? Larry White was Murdered & Bernard Lynch was one of the guys arrested & indeed charged with murder. I've looked into this case & it's believed that Bernard Lynch pulled the trigger. Bernard was released after a year, not because of his innocence, but because of a Warrent that was out of date!!!!! Bernard Lynch is married to Kathleen Lynch & both are employed by the current govt.
WHY is Bernard Lynch employed by the current govt & why is Labour do quiet about this?0 -
I'm pretty sickened with the actions of the British on the island of Ireland but that statement is pure and utter shíte. If they were making deliberate attempts to kill as many Nationalists / Republicans as possible there'd have been a hell of a lot more deaths.
You do your argument no good with unreaslistic points.
It's quite well known that British agents (working on behalf of who else but the british government) were involved in the planning an execution of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.0 -
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True I suppose, bit like drunk drivers intend to get home, they don't intend to kill anybody.
Anyway, the proxy bomb does drive a hole in that argument, murder of Patsy Gillespie doesn't even do that justice.
The IRA targeted civilians....Ok they didnt.
The IRA didnt care if they killed civilians...Ok they did.
Well, what about, Warrington?
What about Bloody Friday?
What about Patsy Gillespie?
Is this the way this whole thing is going to go. You make a point, I counter it so you latch onto someone else who was killed during the Troubles, because we'll be here a while.
Proxy bombs were despicable. Used twice and the tactic was dropped. Does that make it ok or the pain any less for those families? Certainly not. But once again you are being disingenuous by insinuating it was a common practice.
The drunk driver analogy is laughable. People seem to forget that there was a war going on, a war the IRA was forced into and had no option but to see through to its end.0 -
Sierra Oscar wrote: »You make it sound as if all Gardai were killed in some sort of two way gun battle with the IRA. What about the various Gardai that were purposefully murdered by the IRA, who were not armed?
What about unarmed Garda Michael Clerkin, who was killed by an IRA booby trap? What about unarmed Garda Patrick Reynolds, who was shot in the back by INLA members as he attempted to flee for his life? What about the execution of unarmed Sgt Patrick Morrissey? SF have yet to condemn these murders or show any sign of serious remorse. The SF party is dominated by dubious characters to this day - some of whom have clearly made the transition to criminal activity following the implementation of the GFA. SF will continue to be viewed with scepticism as long as these characters remain within positions of power in the party.
SF have condemned every Garda killing. Why you're bringing INLA actions into an argument on SF is beyond me.0 -
There was an option. You've heard of John Hume, right? A true nationalist hero, now seemingly forgotten as he was never in position to stop murdering people, never having started.Crooked Jack wrote: »People seem to forget that there was a war going on, a war the IRA was forced into and had no option but to see through to its end.0 -
the pira campaign.....destroyed the chance for a united ireland........0
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Crooked Jack wrote: »SF have condemned every Garda killing
They have never condemned the perpetrators. Never.0 -
Fenian Army wrote: »I'll elaborate further since you asked K-9 but I'll just say that I don't like talking ill of the dead. He was involved with the murder of Hugh Hehir who, reportedly was attempting to surrender. And was unarmed. I've also heard it said that Jerry McCabe was a nasty piece of work when it came to carrying out searches,/questioning etc and gloated about Hugh Hehirs killing to the mans family. Hence there was not that much grief in republican circles. I've also heard republicans say that it was murder in that the men wanted to kill McCabe out of revenge/retribution. I don't believe that though if they wanted to kill McCabe there were smarter, safer ways to go about it.
Simply pathetic. It is shameful that people in this day and age on this island still think like this and feebly attempt to justify what went on.0 -
In 1995 Adams was addressing a demonstration in Belfast when somebody in the crowd shouted out "Bring back the IRA". Adams made the now infamous unscripted remark "They haven't gone away you know". During a ceasefire when both sides were apparently trying to work towards peace, Adams had his hand firmly gripping his gun.
For me, this is the ultimate proof that Adams was deeply involved in the IRA. How else would he be privy to this kind of information. It's as if he is their self-appointed spokesperson. I can only imagine how many people he killed directly, never mind the murders he ordered others to do.
Sinn Fein will never get my vote. They are about the only major party in this country to have never entered government. Even small parties like the Greens and PDs enjoyed the privilege. The Irish electorate are dumb, but I don't think they're stupid enough to hand power over to terrorists. Shame on the shills who use boards to defend them.0 -
Crooked Jack wrote: »People seem to forget that there was a war going on, a war the IRA was forced into and had no option but to see through to its end.
Lol this kind of talk is delusional. Stop trying to romanticize cowardly terrorism as a just war. In a war, soldiers from both sides wear uniforms and face each other on the battlefield. The IRA were an unorganised bunch of thugs in casual clothing who targeted civilians (I include off-duty police officers and housewives). I laughed the first time when I visited West Belfast and saw the murals glamourising dead scumbags as heroes. I couldn't get out of the kip quick enough.0 -
golden lane wrote: »the pira campaign.....destroyed the chance for a united ireland........
certainly nothing polarises a community like voilence. Hurt one person and you turn their family and friends against you. hurt lots of people and lots of people rally in numbers behind a banner to fight whats percieved as the other side. It's simplistic though to say everything would be hunky dory without the PIRA or even that the PIRA would have become a credible force without first the conditions having been created to allow it to grow.
I think Dev's backward sectarian regieme done alot to polarise the island and enhance partition. What is it about so called republicans ensuring that our differences are highlighted and not celebrated or tolerated. FF are a publican party more than a republican party. FF created a nationalistic authorian state, economically unviable, socially conservatitive and religiously dominated by the catholic church. FF did more to push unionists away than any other party tbh. They ensured that hardliners and small minds previled south of the boarder and reactionary bigotry prevailed north of it. People didnt just wake up one morning in the late 60's and decide to start a 30 year war for the craic. The island spent decades divided and building up intolerance of each other fueling hatred long before the spark that ignited it all. To blame everything on the provos is to blame a symptom rather than address any cause.
My eye still twitches a little every time I see "the republican party" on a FF banner. They were very much anti-republican in that they done more to divide the island than unite it.0 -
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None of what you said is easy reading tbf, IMHO i think a lot of things have moved on a lot, like the English have after killing all those people on bloody Sunday, like the way the English treated the Irish over the last couple of hundred years, i am just saying this to make a point, all over the world things happened, and none of them are in anyway acceptable in any man’s book, there is no defence for these killings, its that simple,
Things move on, people chance etc., we have to move with it, and SF are doing that, changing, moving on, and fighting in the right way now for the good of the people,
So let’s look forward and take what’s best for us now,
Regards
Mr Bump
On the internet recently(I think it was something to do with Egypt) I was reminded of the killing of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe by the IRA.
The 16th anniversary of his brutal slaying at the hands of IRA members occurs next week. As we see the seemingly unending rise in support for Sinn Fein, I think it is important to gently remind people, particularly young people who are seriously considering voting/giving a transfer to SF, that they are not at all as far removed from the yobs who terrorised people on both sides of the border (and both sides of the Irish Sea) as they'd have you believe. It is also important to remember that it was Martin Ferris who picked up the murderers (because this is what they are; they only received the manslaughter verdict because of witness intimidation as anyone familiar with the case knows) upon their unfairly premature release from prison in 2009. While SF would like to sweep these despicable actions under the rug, it is important that they are always kept fresh in people's minds.
When deciding whether or not to vote for SF, if you bear in mind their voodoo economics (it's amazing how far they think the pension reserve fund will stretch isn't it?), the bank robberies, the bombings, the murders of people like Robert McCartney (all of this not even 20 years ago), their questionable expenses and then still decide to vote for them, then I fear for you, and for this country.
While this thread serves to remind people of SF's disgraceful past, the question I want to ask is- when you bear all this in mind how does anyone vote for SF, never mind 1 in 5 voters?0
This discussion has been closed.
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