*IMPORTANT NOTICE* NEW INSTALLERS PRIVATE FORUM

Beruthiel

We have set up a new private forum for Installers.

This is so we can separate your ordinary Joe Soap from the professional Installers as I believe they have managed to colour the content of this forum and taken away the original intent.

So, from now on:

Professional Installers are NOT allowed to post in this forum.

And by that I mean:

Installers must stop posting about work and their trade which has taken over the forum.
So, any installer who mentions her/his business in this public forum will be banned from here.
The only place Installers can discuss their business is in the private forum.

If you are a professional installer, drop a PM to one of the Mods of this forum for access to the private forum.

If installers continue to post in the public Terrestrial Forum they will be banned for here.

PogMoThoin

What does that mean, anyone who's an installer can no longer give any advise to the public on Saorview? Sorry, I can't be part of this new forum if it means that.

John mac

So the likes of Tony and stevon are not alowed to post in the open forum?

whats the point of that?

PogMoThoin

Exactly, What's the point in a public information forum if those with the knowledge aren't allowed to post there? This is absolute madness.

kippy

This seems like a retrograde step.
Kinda like stopping the people who have the best advise stop giving it.
I am an IT professional, I wouldn't like to be banned from posting in the generic IT Fora on this site.

dellWlan

Beruthiel wrote: »

So, from now on:

Professional Installers are NOT allowed to post in this forum.

Terrible idea.

jabarrett35

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what the difference is between a new installer and professional one. I woulld assume a new one would be professional. Your English makes little sense and I thought I had a good grasp of it after 47 years.

swedex

One of the problems with public forums is an abundance of bad advice, albeit most of it well intended. By removing the people who are an authority on the subject you will be left with posts filled with average to bad advice and likely those who aren't installers but can give good advice will go elsewhere.

I'm not an installer or know the first thing about aerials, I just appreciate knowledge because I lack it.

channelsurfer2

yes terrible idea. clarification needed as to why its necessary and a very retrograde step indeed.

Ronnie Raygun

jabarrett35 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what the difference is between a new installer and professional one. I woulld assume a new one would be professional. Your English makes little sense and I thought I had a good grasp of it after 47 years.

Are you taking the piss or do you genuinely think it's a forum for new installers as opposed to a new forum for installers?

Apogee

This looks like a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Surely a compromise solution can be found? Issues relating directly to the trade, trade associations, "cowboy" installers etc can be kept in the private forum and such topics banned from this forum. Installers would then be free to contribute on other matters in this forum?

PogMoThoin

Seems like they sent in the big guns for this one (Beruthiel). Beruthiel doesn't even contribute here. What are the category and forum mods opinions on this? Surely they can see how stupid this is.

Extinction

To do this you will have to limit Joe Soap to posting about programme content on terrestrial and not ask any questions of a technical nature (which Joe is always asking). You will also have to ensure that if joe does ask a technical question that it will be deleted and any reply is also deleted as the answer obviously won't be from somebody who knows what they are talking about. Silly idea.

Alun

I agree. This has to be one of the most ridiculous suggestions ever. If you applied the same principle to the rest of Boards, they may as well just close the site and go home.

channelsurfer2

yeah interesting that it wasnt a mod such as ICDG that posted these new rules. surely you should actually consult with the users of this board first and foremost. Boards.ie was one of the biggest opponents of sherlocks law as I call it now they seem to be taking it upon themselves to censor free speech if you are in installer that likes to help out on here.

Mountjoy Mugger

What a joke. I am well aware that Boards isn't a democracy, but this is taking liberties.

Half the reason I frequent this forum as much as I do is to hear from the "professionals"


If the regualr non professional is no longer allowed to read the opinion(s) of the pros, what is the point of the forum, my dear?

Talking about putting the boot (with steel toecap) in!

Any percieved angst is well percieved.

Alun

What's worse is that this isn't the first instance of such goings on on boards. On other forums I've frequented, professionally qualified, experienced posters have either given up posting voluntarily or have been effectively silenced by mods for speaking up against incorrect, or in one specific case, dangerous statements by amateurs in the field. IMO it should be these people who should be being warned / banned, not the professionals who are correcting them.

Dav

OK folks, there's been a misunderstanding here - completely my fault.

We (the Admin team) were contacted by the mods and asked to put this in place as a follow on from an initially rejected forum request here. There's been a concern that the forum has become dominated by the installers "talking shop" which is not what the initial intentions for this forum were at all.

We've had this in other areas of the site and we've set up private forums for the people involved in the "trade" related to the subject. That's what the sub-forum mentioned above is for, it's not to silence or stop professional installers just posting like anyone else, but it is designed to take all the threads of that nature out of this forum as we have been told they are causing problems.

So, installers are still free to be a part of this community, but threads about their trade and profession and issues related to that will be considered off topic and they should seek access to the "trade" forum from the moderators.

On top of that, because these are people who've given a lot of time and effort to the site with very useful and professional advice, we'd like to start a thread where they may, if they so choose, list their business name and the area they work in if people are looking for an installer to do a job and would rather give the business to a fellow Boardsie.

PogMoThoin

Thanks for the clarification Dav

medoc

Thanks Dav

As a regular follower ere that clarification is great. While some of the installer inter chat is above me or a bit pickey at tomes I really appreciate everyone's expert contribution dnd it would be s poorer place without them.

Apogee

Good stuff!

Perhaps the OP could be edited as it's a little misleading in light of above?

cast_iron

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Are you taking the piss or do you genuinely think it's a forum for new installers as opposed to a new forum for installers?

Well neither the OP nor the thread title make any sense.

The post itself is clearly factually incorrect.
The thread title actually reads that it's a forum for new installers. With correct grammar (the word 'installers' should have an apostrophe after it), no confusion could arise.

In any case, does one have to have an installation business to get access to the new forum? I, like many others on here, have some knowledge in the area but it's not our profession or day to day job. Do the Mods make a call on it?

Antenna

Is the new Forum going to be available as 'Read Only' to non-members or not accessible at all to them?

Sponge Bob

Antenna wrote: »

Is the new Forum going to be available as 'Read Only' to non-members ?

That makes sense. I think the mods wanted somewhere to 'move' certain posts which while betimes highly technical and sometimes contentious if not fractious are frequently of use to the more technically advanced non professionals.....and frequently shop talk.

Anyway I'd _hate_ to lose access to the cowboy installer photos thread. Some absolutely classics in there like the Sky dish on the tree in Wexford....or in fact anything at all from Wexford.

I agree that posting should be restricted in that forum as proposed by the OP and Clarified by Dav. It makes moderating easier in here and installer 'issues' are sure to intensify over the next 6 months so this move makes sense in that context.

Ronnie Raygun

cast_iron wrote: »

Well neither the OP nor the thread title make any sense.

Agree about the OP, I just can't believe that others here seriously thought that installers would be banned from posting anything in the main forum.

kippy

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Agree about the OP, I just can't believe that others here seriously thought that installers would be banned from posting anything in the main forum.

Well I suppose when a senior "mod" comes on here and posts this:
"Professional Installers are NOT allowed to post in this forum."
people are going to assume that professional installers are not going to be allowed post in the main forum...........

Ronnie Raygun

Well, I assumed rather that it was a post from someone maybe a bit too senior who probably hadn't been made aware of the true nature of the "problem" & of what the trade contributes to the forum here.

cast_iron

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Well, I assumed rather that it was a post from someone maybe a bit too senior who probably hadn't been made aware of the true nature of the "problem" & of what the trade contributes to the forum here.

Agreed. I'm sure the local Mods will be along soon enough to explain in a little more detail how it will work.

I'm not convinced on the need for the private forum myself, though perhaps, in time, it will turn into a useful area for installers to share trade knowledge and air grievances among themselves.

However, it is a shame that the only thread started in here to discuss the direction of the forum was deleted and no other one opened. So the merits of any idea never really got chance to be discussed.

St Senan

Its fairly clear that whole idea of having a INSTALLERS PRIVATE forum is that Day to Day Installers can chat, post up pictures,share stories and discuss the Trade without the outside interference from people who are not in the business day to day which was becoming to frequent here lately. Its a brilliant idea and it only should be Day to Day legit tax paying installers allowed in or else there is no point in having a INSTALLERS PRIVATE forum. Thanks again to Dav and Beruthiel for allowing this.

kippy

scaller wrote: »

Its fairly clear that whole idea of having a INSTALLERS PRIVATE forum is that Day to Day Installers can chat, post up pictures,share stories and discuss the Trade without the outside interference from people who are not in the business day to day which was becoming to frequent here lately. Its a brilliant idea and it only should be day to Day installers allowed in or else there is no point in having a INSTALLERS PRIVATE forum. Thanks again to Dav and Beruthiel for allowing this.

I suppose this isn't such a bad thing but you'd have to wonder if this would set a precedent for other areas of boards.

St Senan

As far as i know there are already a few private forums up and running on boards.
With the amount of Day to Day installers and trade body installers on the threads and the amount of thread closures and confrontational posts from guys who challenge every post an installer makes then it only makes sense to have a Installers private sub forum.

kippy

scaller wrote: »

As far as i know there are already a few private forums up and running on boards.
With the amount of Day to Day installers and trade body installers on the threads and the amount of thread closures and confrontational posts from guys who challenge every post an installer makes then it only makes sense to have a Installers private sub forum.

There are indeed a few private forums, however I am not sure whether they are for use by professionals in a certain area, theres no "mechanics" forum in the motor section, or solicitors forum in the legal area etc.......

Extinction

I think its a good idea. It doesn't set a new precedent as Dav has stated ''We've had this in other areas of the site and we've set up private forums for the people involved in the "trade" related to the subject''.

I don't see how it can be a bad idea for installers to be allowed to talk privately about issues that relate to themselves without being attacked by uninformed armchair enthusiasts which has become the norm.

St Senan

There are probably no hassle in those threads like there is here every time a trade body is mentioned or a picture of a Crap job that was done by a chancer is put up there has been numerous threads locked here because of this. As far as I am aware the Alarm and CCTV threads have a private forum set as well. It can only do good by having Day to Day installers chatting amongst themselves without the outside interference.

kippy

Extinction wrote: »

I think its a good idea. It doesn't set a new precedent as Dav has stated ''We've had this in other areas of the site and we've set up private forums for the people involved in the "trade" related to the subject''.

I don't see how it can be a bad idea for installers to be allowed to talk privately about issues that relate to themselves without being attacked by uninformed armchair enthusiasts which has become the norm.

I missed that bit, fair enough, I wasn't aware of any such forums.

watty

Of course for a PRIVATE forum you don't need Boards at all.

Manc-Red

This is just my 2 cents but any help here from such an expert is very welcome - Sure that's what a Joe Soap is looking for on a forum isn't it?

cast_iron

scaller wrote: »

Its fairly clear that whole idea of having a INSTALLERS PRIVATE forum is that Day to Day Installers can chat, post up pictures,share stories and discuss the Trade without the outside interference from people who are not in the business day to day which was becoming to frequent here lately. Its a brilliant idea and it only should be Day to Day legit tax paying installers allowed in or else there is no point in having a INSTALLERS PRIVATE forum. Thanks again to Dav and Beruthiel for allowing this.

If that's the intention behind setting it up, then so be it.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Anyway I'd _hate_ to lose access to the cowboy installer photos thread. Some absolutely classics in there like the Sky dish on the tree in Wexford....or in fact anything at all from Wexford.

Since the thread was moderated more closely, then has been no problems. I don't see why it can't be left in this forum.

It won't be much of a private forum if everyone else can read it, yet not post in it. I don't see the logic of such an idea.

dellWlan

So what's the criteria for joining a private installers forum?
My word that I'm an installer?
Vat registered.
Member of a trade association?
Boards are hardly expected to verify that I'm not a "rogue" installer.


Further contentious threads to follow…

watty

There are people that a professional in the Industry and either don't install any more or never install. What about a CAI rep, RTENL bod etc?

Who decides who gets in? (Hint "Moderator" isn't a Who, but a Boards.ie role).

cast_iron

watty wrote: »

There are people that a professional in the Industry and either don't install any more or never install. What about a CAI rep, RTENL bod etc?

Add to that the ISAA. It wouldn't be much of a forum if they were not allowed access.

Would these bodies be required to have a verified representative account, as seems to be boards policy these days?

Cesium Clock

A forum for installers, as in the title of the thread, for legit CRO registered installers would be a positive move.

As the country is awash with 'digital saorview ' this that and the other non CRO registered, non tax paying inexperienced 'monkeys with ladders'

A place for active tax complient, CRO reg installers to discuss the state of the industry in private, would be a welcome addition, and would be a benefit to both the real installers and the consumer.

Kristopherus

Cesium Clock wrote: »

A forum for installers, as in the title of the thread, for legit CRO registered installers would be a positive move.

As the country is awash with 'digital saorview ' this that and the other non CRO registered, non tax paying inexperienced 'monkeys with ladders'

A place for active tax complient, CRO reg installers to discuss the state of the industry in private, would be a welcome addition, and would be a benefit to both the real installers and the consumer.

An entity like Boards cannot insist on a poster being tax compliant or have a current VAT no. That is a function of Revenue. It will be an onerous task to come up with a fair criteria to join. I have to say that I learned a lot from the installers who post here.

Cesium Clock

That's why I mentioned CRO, easily checked on the website by the forum mod, and or other joining installers.
It seems the only people having a problem with the idea of a private installers forum, are non installers.

John mac

you could just log in here I dont know how installers are verified though.

cast_iron

Cesium Clock wrote: »

It seems the only people having a problem with the idea of a private installers forum, are non installers.

I'm not sure one person on this thread has said they are against the forum.

Cesium Clock

cast_iron wrote: »

I'm not convinced on the need for the private forum myself,.

really

cast_iron

You know, everyone can go back and read what was actually posted, so selectively quoting half a sentence I posted is a little unfair, especially since in the rest of that sentence, I actually stated that the new forum may prove quite useful for installers.

For the record, here's what I actually posted:
I'm not convinced on the need for the private forum myself, though perhaps, in time, it will turn into a useful area for installers to share trade knowledge and air grievances among themselves.

Also, when scaller stated what he thought the logic was behind setting up the the forum, I did not disagree, or "have a problem" as you put it.

So please don't try to paint a picture of me being against the new forum to suit your own agenda. Many people have come on here and questioned exactly how it would all work, as very little information has been forthcoming from any Mods. That's not to say any of them are "anti" the idea.
Far too often, people on here view anyone that doesn't agree with them as being against them. It's childish and narrow minded, it leads to all manner of arguments that have ruined good threads, and it doesn't help anyone. If people with attitudes like that are confined to a private forum, then I for one am all for such a forum.

Cesium Clock

as you are not an installer, why are you posting on a thread about a new forum that you wil not be able to participate in?

or is it your usual trolling to rise an arguement that has closed many a thread in the past?

cast_iron

Cesium Clock wrote: »

as you are not an installer, why are you posting on a thread about a new forum that you wil not be able to participate in?

So, you come on posting incorrect facts, I prove them wrong, then your only argument is "well why are you here anyway", yet I'm the troll?

This thread is open to anyone, and is not restricted to any one set of people. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as the next person.
Either way, I'm usually happy to debate any points with anyone, but when your only response is to come back with a straw man argument, I won't be corresponding with you on this thread again.

Cesium Clock

What incorrect facts, it was you who said you're not convinced