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Why is Kenny refusing an honest debate?

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24

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    #32
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    Cracker_Jack wrote: »
    The yes campaign have lost their credibility. Two days before the referendum, the leader is nowhere in sight. When someone is leader (i.e. Kenny), they either take responsibility or else come clean.

    Who said Kenny is the leader of the Yes campaign? Apart from you that is...


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    #33
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Cracker_Jack wrote: »
    Where are all these Kenny lovers coming from?

    Disagreeing with you makes people a Kenny lover? news to me


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    #34
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    I don't see the point for a debate, because if the Lisbon treaty was anything to go by, the No side will bring up a couple of ludicrous sound bites, and make Enda look stupid not knowing some bizarre fact that probably has nothing to do with the Treaty. They seem very good at the art of misdirection in debates.


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    #35
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    the_syco wrote: »
    I don't see the point for a debate, because if the Lisbon treaty was anything to go by, the No side will bring up a couple of ludicrous sound bites, and make Enda look stupid not knowing some bizarre fact that probably has nothing to do with the Treaty. They seem very good at the art of misdirection in debates.

    Lisbon turned into a farce. The Yes camp ended up getting dragged down to the level of the No camp and had to fight bullshít with bullshít.


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    #36
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    I'm trying to figure this out, and nothing in the (currently) 35 posts indicates why Enda Kenny should debate this.

    Isn't Lucinda Creighton the government minister/super junior for Europe - so isn't she the point person for this?

    So please, will somebody give me a good reason why Enda should debate something that is strictly speaking somebody else's remit

    N.b. He's the FG leader/taoiseach does not count - the reason(s) for any answer have to be explained.


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    #37
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,220 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    MOD REMINDER:
    A few poster comments are beginning to slide in the direction of getting "too personal." Please focus on making meaningful contributions to the thread topic, and not each other.


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    #38
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    Cracker_Jack wrote: »
    Where are all these Kenny lovers coming from?

    Well when you go and slander a leader who was elected based on a majority vote, you might expect people to stick up for him maybe?


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    #39
    The Waltzing Consumer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Cracker_Jack wrote: »
    There is little doubt that Kenny is a tin-eared narcissist.

    I really do wonder what this adds to this thread?


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    #40
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Because he is a (politically) illegitimate undemocratic Quisling who has reneged on his mandate? :cool:


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    #41
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »
    I really do wonder what this adds to this thread?

    It adds refreshing honesty.


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    #42
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    It adds refreshing honesty.
    ...or gratuitous abuse. In other words, nothing of value.


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    #43
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    antoobrien wrote: »
    I'm trying to figure this out, and nothing in the (currently) 35 posts indicates why Enda Kenny should debate this.

    Isn't Lucinda Creighton the government minister/super junior for Europe - so isn't she the point person for this?

    So please, will somebody give me a good reason why Enda should debate something that is strictly speaking somebody else's remit

    N.b. He's the FG leader/taoiseach does not count - the reason(s) for any answer have to be explained.

    Enda is the elected leader of the majority party in our elected government.His, will/will not be the signature on the treaty, and if he cannot stand up to a dose of B.S. from Gerry Adams and Vincent Browne then he should not sign us up for something he cannot defend.

    Every politician who is anybody has debated this referendum on radio or TV, why should Enda hide from it?It is a cowardly move,but what do we expect from politicians.


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    #44
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Someone having to make a case for this treaty in a live TV debate would need to be an amazing public speaker and debater.

    Kenny is not either of those things. He cant make the case for this Treaty. His likely opponents know it. He knows it. His colleagues and supporters know it.

    The main job of FG handlers is to keep Kenny away from microphones, cameras, and indeed any form of media because it can only make things worse.


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    #45
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Sand wrote: »
    Someone having to make a case for this treaty in a live TV debate would need to be an amazing public speaker and debater.

    Kenny is not either of those things. He cant make the case for this Treaty. His likely opponents know it. He knows it. His colleagues and supporters know it.

    The main job of FG handlers is to keep Kenny away from microphones, cameras, and indeed any form of media because it can only make things worse.

    Agreed which is why the no camp elected him 'leader of the yes campaign' and then insisted he debate on it. Most of these debates are utterly pointless anyway.


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    #46
    Ozymandius2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I think if the treaty doesn't go through the chickens (no pun intended) will come home to roost on this one.


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    #47
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Ozymandius2011 wrote: »
    I think if the treaty doesn't go through the chickens (no pun intended) will come home to roost on this one.

    Sadly they just might, though I fear not in the way the no campaign believe.


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    #48
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Ozymandius2011 wrote: »
    I think if the treaty doesn't go through the chickens (no pun intended) will come home to roost on this one.


    The chickens are coming home to roost anyway; something neither the "yes" or "no" sides are keen to point out.

    The notion that a vote either way will keep the chickens at bay is daft. (And, btw, the roosts will be filling up with chickens across Europe, not just in Ireland)

    But voting "yes", in the hope of avoiding the inevitable by tossing away our sovereignty, is the daftest thing to do.

    I'm going with the least daft solution. A debate would have shown Kenny as clearly on the most daft side.

    Which would be a greater service to the nation than the technical merits of whatever nonsense either himself or Mr Adams came up with.

    Thus there would be great value in this particular debate.

    Something Kenny's handler's were well aware of and the reason he chickened out.


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    #49
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Enda is the elected leader of the majority party in our elected government.His, will/will not be the signature on the treaty, and if he cannot stand up to a dose of B.S. from Gerry Adams and Vincent Browne then he should not sign us up for something he cannot defend.

    Every politician who is anybody has debated this referendum on radio or TV, why should Enda hide from it?It is a cowardly move,but what do we expect from politicians.

    So no valid reason then (there is somebody there do do this job, so he's the leader is not a valid reason).

    The opposition want him debating this because it stops him from doing his main job of managing the running of the country. They want him in this because it makes their lives easier later.

    Though I don't like him I have to way: Well done Enda for not getting distracted from the running of the country to play political games withe the opposition to the treaty.


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    #50
    telecaster
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭telecaster


    I have a deal more respect for Kenny now than prior to his appointment as Taoiseach. I don't agree with every decision he and his government has made, but by accepting that tv debating is not his strongest suit he has shown a tactical aptitude and humility which is laudable.

    There are many ways to lead.

    I'll take considered decisions through consulatation, thorough analysis and re-analysis, over off-the-cuff debating smarts any day when it comes to anything of importance.

    This shouldn't be showbiz.


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    #51
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Ireland's rejection in Thursday's referendum wouldn't derail the treaty, but would nonetheless deliver a blow to EU leaders on the treaty's legitimacy, and provide more support to critics of the EU's current austerity drive.

    Today's Wall St Journal.


    So if you want Euro-wide recovery policies instead of the current clinically insane and grotesquely inappropriate German/ECB policy, vote NO to the Suicide Pact tomorrow.


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    #52
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    That's quite the non sequitur.


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    #53
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    That's quite the non sequitur.

    Au contraire.

    It's to the point is a way the most of the "yes" waffle (embracing fantasy) isn't.

    I guess you probably reckoned I'd not know what a non sequitur is? :cool:

    You guys are so consistently wrong on so many levels it leaves me breathless.......from laughing :cool:

    It is to escape the reality referred to on the WSJ that Clueless Kenny choked on the idea of a debate.


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    #54
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,497 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    ColHol wrote: »
    Theres also the fact that he was the leader of the party who got the most votes. People knew when they were voting for Fine Gael that Enda would be Taoiseach and still voted for them, so you can really argue with that. Who would you have picked in the last GE instead?


    OT, Im not too fussed that he isnt debating. There has been plenty of debate around the treaty and the Government has been well represented, so I dont see the point in trotting Enda out for show when he has a cabinet there that can do just as good, or if not better. If the reason he isnt is that he isnt good at debating, so what?

    He basically lied throughout the whole General Election campaign.
    What promises, if any, did he actually keep ?


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    #55
    Captainjjack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Captainjjack


    tayto lover wrote: »
    He basically lied throughout the whole General Election campaign.
    What promises, if any, did he actually keep ?

    None. He broke all of his promises. When I seen him on the news yesterday, he tried to put on the bertie sympathy act by speaking in a distressed tone. Here in Donegal, I don't know anyone voting yes.


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    #56
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Channel 4 News sent their main Political Reporter to follow Enda Kenny around.

    This is frankly one of the most pathetic efforts at 'canvassing' that I have ever seen ......with the Channel 4 Reporter reduced to URGING Enda to canvass at one point. 'Bertie Ahern would have waded in' he said...watch what Enda did then. :(



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLGhDyQjc_w


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    #57
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    'Bertie Ahern would have waded in' he said...watch what Enda did then. :(
    Can't see the vid but if Bertie would have done something then the right thing to do would be the complete opposite!


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    #58
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    kbannon wrote: »
    Can't see the vid but if Bertie would have done something then the right thing to do would be the complete opposite!

    It's funny isn't it. Bertie would have been straight in there talking absolute shíte but we seem to be wanting Kenny to do the same. Have we learned nothing.


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    #59
    Mance Rayder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Mance Rayder


    To be honest he looks tired and he is treating people with respect by not being in their faces. If they should wish to speak with him he is right there, otherwise he is not forcing it upon them, which is more than can be said for the no side. The news reporter wants him to take the bait but he is having none of it.

    Fair play to him.


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    #60
    Ozymandius2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I think he's pursuing a Fabian strategy of attempting to defeat the enemy by not engaging them in battle.


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    #61
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Ozymandius2011 wrote: »
    I think he's pursuing a Fabian strategy of attempting to defeat the enemy by not engaging them in battle.

    Or he's recognizing the truth in the classic maxim: 'Never argue with a fool because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'.


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