Motor Tax reform

Sam Russell

A sorn type system would be relatively easy to inroduce as it is the same as taxing without the payment. All vehicles currently untaxed could be given a grace time to have them regularised and then SORN before their registrations would be cancelled. This would get over the 'brown log book for sale' curse inflicting the classic scene.

It would be useful if they sorted the mad ZV registrations at the same time.

hi5

^And any regs that haven't been accounted for could be presumed scrapped and be available for re-issue.
Having said that there are hundreds of thousands of the old series that have never been issued anyway.

Leitrim for example;

IT 1 to IT 9999 (Dec 1903 - May 1972),
AIT 1 to KIT 780 (May 1972 - Dec 1986), have been issued.

So 1 IT to 9999 IT and 1 AIT to 999 ZIT have never been issued, theres 36000 unissued straight off.
Also from KIT 780 to ZIT 999 is another 15000 unissued give or take.
Thats over 50000 unissued from Leitrim alone.

kasper

hi5 wrote: »

^And any regs that haven't been accounted for could be presumed scrapped and be available for re-issue.
Having said that there are hundreds of thousands of the old series that have never been issued anyway.

Leitrim for example;

IT 1 to IT 9999 (Dec 1903 - May 1972),
AIT 1 to KIT 780 (May 1972 - Dec 1986), have been issued.

So 1 IT to 9999 IT and 1 AIT to 999 ZIT have never been issued, theres 36000 unissued straight off.
Also from KIT 780 to ZIT 999 is another 15000 unissued give or take.
Thats over 50000 unissued from Leitrim alone.

and then some lucky lass could get the reg tit5

mk1esc

imo the whole thing is just a money scam, if you can afford 1 or more cars we will penalise you for being able to afford them.....this could be the governments way of squeezing classic cars etc of the road....it could also be saying in not so many words that if your motor is over 10 yrs old we want it off the road....

not many people ave plenty of cash these days ....the government just want loads of it :mad::mad:....what sort of salaries are they on these days???? this is like a case of the rich get richer and the poor well fook them spongers and tag alongs.....

this country has to many other problems going on but yet "we" the people get screwed over day in day out by them fookers.....:mad::mad:

what about farmers with old tractors and other machinery or road hauliers aving to pay for stuff of the road....its not a fair system....

Sam Russell

I think it is more like SIMI want the government to drive cars off the road to increase sales of new cars. SIMI gets the sales, Gov gets the VRT - everyone is happy. [Well not everyone, well no-one else really].:mad:

carchaeologist

Reading an interview in a paper last week with a SIMI PRO girl, she said they are giving consideration to a twice yearly registration system to keep sales up throughout the year.

Why anyone buys a new car is beyond me. Its the greatest waste of money possible, besides maybe actually burning it.

hi5

carchaeologist wrote: »

Reading an interview in a paper last week with a SIMI PRO girl, she said they are giving consideration to a twice yearly registration system to keep sales up throughout the year.

Why anyone buys a new car is beyond me. Its the greatest waste of money possible, besides maybe actually burning it.

Just like they have been doing in the UK for the last decade or so.

Xlaxeo

Sam Russell wrote: »

This would get over the 'brown log book for sale' curse inflicting the classic scene.

It would also make it very difficult to restore and recommission a car that has been off the road for a long time without being SORNed.

I recently had a car restored that was last taxed in 1993. That was difficult enough to get taxed.

A SORN system would certainly reduce the amount of long abandoned or neglected cars being restored anyway.

Sam Russell

Xlaxeo wrote: »

It would also make it very difficult to restore and recommission a car that has been off the road for a long time without being SORNed.

I recently had a car restored that was last taxed in 1993. That was difficult enough to get taxed.

A SORN system would certainly reduce the amount of long abandoned or neglected cars being restored anyway.

If this was to be introduced, presumably any currently untaxed, stored or under restoration vehicle would simply have to declare the remains. Perhaps, it would be required to be inspected when returned to the road to certify its credentials. It would be the equivalent checking/testing as imports of a simillar vintage are subject to currently.

A grace period should be applied for such vehicles to be declared before more stringent rules are applied. Currently 'barn finds' without paperwork are subject to such actions.

Big Nasty

carchaeologist wrote: »

Reading an interview in a paper last week with a SIMI PRO girl, she said they are giving consideration to a twice yearly registration system to keep sales up throughout the year.

Why anyone buys a new car is beyond me. Its the greatest waste of money possible, besides maybe actually burning it.

If people don't buy cars new how do you expect to buy them used?

carchaeologist

MCMLXXV wrote: »

If people don't buy cars new how do you expect to buy them used?

I know, it's just when you work out how much money a new car loses over time it's a wonder anyone buys new.

The year identifier plates were a masterstroke of genius by the government in 1987!

Fishtits

I don't see the problem with this proposed legislation.

If its off the road tell them. Big Deal?

When you want to drive it, rock up & tax it.

When the tax is out, tell them.

What's the problem?

Sam Russell

carchaeologist wrote: »

I know, it's just when you work out how much money a new car loses over time it's a wonder anyone buys new.

The year identifier plates were a masterstroke of genius by the government in 1987!

It was a masterstroke by SIMI who petitioned hard to get it. It was daft in '87 to go for such a number scheme as it added an extra digit that was unnecessary. If they chose a letter, they would have a scheme that would have lasted 20 years with a single digit. Oh, wasn't that the scheme chosen across the water in 1963- A123ABC, then reversed as ABC123A? Lasted nearly 40 years, and towards the end they started using two letters a year.

However, next year it is going to bite them. Who wants to have 13 X 12235 as a number plate if they are superstitious?

They are trying to change the 13 prefix to avoid lost sales.

If fewer new cars are bought, second-hand cars are more expensive and cars hold their prices better. Also, cars will be maintained better and garages will have more repair business, so giving more jobs for mechanics but less for salesmen.

w124man

Hi, been watching this thread for a while and I'm puzzled about some of the reaction. A SORN system would be good and simple to operate. If you have, like I do, a shed full of projects that haven't been taxed in years, you simply fill in the forms and send them off declaring everything as SORN. What can be easier .... ?? Its better than having to pay tax on everything

As regards the registration plate numbers system what could be simpler and really who cares about the number 13? I dont - well maybe if it was followed by 666 !!!

The UK system is a joke in comparison however not as big a joke as the new system allocated to secondhand imports which is nothing more than a childish reaction from an inadequate motor industry federation

Sam Russell

w124man wrote: »

The UK system is a joke in comparison however not as big a joke as the new system allocated to secondhand imports which is nothing more than a childish reaction from an inadequate motor industry federation

Which one? They are on their third one so far.

First they had six digits, two letter or three, with numbers to make up six digits. The (last) two letters specified the county. NI still uses this but has added an extra number.

They then added a letter to the end to give seven digits with an identifier for the year. The letter 'A' identified 1963 IIRC, and twenty years later they put the number in front. They messed around with the changeover month, just to satisfy the motor-trade.

Then they came up with the opaque system they now use, two letters, two numbers and three letters. The first two letters are to identify the county, the numbers are for the year, divided into two periods, 11, and 61, to specify the year and which half, and then three letters that are basically random. The purpose of which is to allow the sale of personalised number plates at great profit to the government over there.

By the way, I was over in France recently and noticed they have a new registration system. Had not noticed it before. Anyone know how long they have had it for?

tony.aspergers

Sam Russell wrote: »

By the way, I was over in France recently and noticed they have a new registration system. Had not noticed it before. Anyone know how long they have had it for?

It's been in for a few years now I think.... They had the same problem, the boom period saw them running out of numbers!

macplaxton

w124man wrote: »

I'm puzzled about some of the reaction. A SORN system would be good and simple to operate. If you have, like I do, a shed full of projects that haven't been taxed in years, you simply fill in the forms and send them off declaring everything as SORN. What can be easier .... ??

I puzzled by this response.

You are welcoming more paperwork? This simple filling of forms will need to be done every year multiplied by the number of projects. Sounds a lot more effort and hassle than doing nothing!

2cv

tony.aspergers wrote: »

It's been in for a few years now I think.... They had the same problem, the boom period saw them running out of numbers!

That's cos they're doing it wrong :-)

I think Belgium has got the right answer... If you buy a car over there, it's always unregistered. You simply keep your old registration number. Only recently they moved to a 7 digit system, which is not bad for a country with 11 million people. They now have 1-ABC-123.

rugbyman

in response to the query about french numbers,
the system, well abandoned, in France up to a year or two ago . the system was crazy, suited the fonctionaires/civil servants.

Every subsequent owner of a car got a new registration and bought new plates,
. you also needed a new tax book , which can cost hundred of euro ,(depends on H.P.) This also meant that everyones car was registered in the county/department in which they lived.
According to what I read there , it proved a deterrent to trade, (as I type I cannot think why that would be so,)
Anyway the new system means the car keeps the number , from owner to owner. the punitive price for the tax book/carte grise remains. (though I think the mileage is on it, a good feature).
The new system does not identify the department( though you can opt to have it on the edge of the plate or not.)
Having travelled many thousands of miles there ,and being a number fitishist I have seen very few who opt to not show their department.

Regards, Rugbyman

rugbyman

2CV
i know you have stated that you lived in Belgium for years,
Query re their new numbers. The format is indeed 1.abc.123 but I have seen an occasaional 9.abc.123 and last week one only 8.abc.123

Any idea as to what thats about.

Rugbyman

Sam Russell

The Swiss system is that you keep the number when you change cars. I am not sure, but I think you can 'SORN' a car and simply move the number plate to another car.

2cv

rugbyman wrote: »

2CV
i know you have stated that you lived in Belgium for years,
Query re their new numbers. The format is indeed 1.abc.123 but I have seen an occasaional 9.abc.123 and last week one only 8.abc.123

Any idea as to what thats about.

Rugbyman

Yup i do

The first digit indicates the "series" of plates...

Numbers 1-7 are regular plates
Number 8 are "international plates" (i presume CD, NATO, EUROCONTROL, ....)
Number 9 are "personalised plates"

kuro2k

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Swiss system is that you keep the number when you change cars. I am not sure, but I think you can 'SORN' a car and simply move the number plate to another car.

No need to "SORN", you just move the plate to a different car. We could only dream of this system in Ireland.........

hi5

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Swiss system is that you keep the number when you change cars. I am not sure, but I think you can 'SORN' a car and simply move the number plate to another car.

Yes, you see people walking around, and on the trains carrying a number plate under their arms, seems strange until the reason is explained.

w124man

macplaxton wrote: »

I puzzled by this response.

You are welcoming more paperwork? This simple filling of forms will need to be done every year multiplied by the number of projects. Sounds a lot more effort and hassle than doing nothing!

Now Im puzzled ..... Take car off road, when road tax reminder come in the post fill in a section for SORN and post it back. Keep doing it every year till it goes back on the road ..... !!! What could be simpler with a system like that? Thats what I do when the reminder arrives at the moment!
I dont welcome more paperwork but its better than having to tax the car all the time!

Silvera

hi5 wrote: »

Yes, you see people walking around, and on the trains carrying a number plate under their arms, seems strange until the reason is explained.

The Swiss also allow owners to register TWO vehicles under the same registration number. However only one vehicle may be used on the road at any time.