Motor Tax reform

2cv

Any thoughts on this?




http://www.thejournal.ie/motor-tax-reform-will-require-drivers-to-prove-cars-are-off-the-road-460585-May2012/

carchaeologist

Fair enough. Once it's done properly. I have the fear though like everything else that those ****ing apes up there do it will be a load of bollocks as usual.

2cv

I just think that Ireland is becoming more and more like the UK.... SORN, ANPR,...... and so on

Carazy

It is a good idea but should only apply to cars which have been taxed following the introduction of this law.

eg. Only a car which has been taxed once this law comes into effect is then on the system for penaltues (excluding cars which are potentially going to be restored)

unkel

Tax on fuel is so much easier to implement, more efficient, fairer, 100% compliance, etc.

But the SORN system is better than what we have now. Then again with minimal enforcement it won't make any difference.

The same chancers that do the 3 on 3 off now will:

SORN the car (keep driving it of course knowing there is only a slim chance of being caught, especially outside main city areas). Then declare the car on the road, tax it for 3 months and SORN it again

So 3 on 3 off will be 3 SORN 3 on :rolleyes:

2cv

Carazy wrote: »

It is a good idea but should only apply to cars which have been taxed following the introduction of this law.

eg. Only a car which has been taxed once this law comes into effect is then on the system for penaltues (excluding cars which are potentially going to be restored)

Do you think our government are smart enough to think of that? :-)

carchaeologist

Carazy wrote: »

It is a good idea but should only apply to cars which have been taxed following the introduction of this law.

eg. Only a car which has been taxed once this law comes into effect is then on the system for penaltues (excluding cars which are potentially going to be restored)

This is the main issue, if its applied to all cars since the beginning of taxation, most of us are ****ed. It has to be applied to cars currently taxed when it is introduced, and all cars subsequently taxed afterwards. Anything off the system/untaxed should not have to be recorded as off the road.

Also, if there is a charge on declaring your vehicle off the road, its a farce. It should be a free service, if its going to save as much money as they think.

But...wait for it..it will all be done arseways..:rolleyes:

2cv

carchaeologist wrote: »

Also, if there is a charge on declaring your vehicle off the road, its a farce. It should be a free service, if its going to save as much money as they think.

I believe they charge £35 per car per year off the road in the UK, so being the copy cats they are, they'll probably charge for it over here

spooky donkey

well this plan seems better then what I thought they were going to implemnt.
I was worried they were just gona force you to back tax all cars in your name off the road.

This idea is fine by my, as im planing keeping my classic of the road for this season and next season till it hits vintage. I had a worry that when that happened I might have had to have paid back tax on it.
I would have no issue proving its off the road, its burried in the back of a garrage with no batter in it now.....

Seth Brundle

unkel wrote: »

Tax on fuel is so much easier to implement, more efficient, fairer, 100% compliance, etc.

I agree that it would be a fairer system but I would have no doubt that the occurrences of fuel laundering (primarily in diesel) would increase.

trevorbrady

kbannon wrote: »

I agree that it would be a fairer system but I would have no doubt that the occurrences of fuel laundering (primarily in diesel) would increase.

just abolish green diesel, make farmers buy the normal stuff, keep their receipts and give them a tax rebate at the end of the year.

it would do away with fuel laundering and all the criminality associated with it and in turn the criminality it funds...

am I being naieve (sp?) in presuming this is an easy fix?

Seth Brundle

Possibly but I'm not a crime expert.
IIRC petrol laundering is done (somehow) by adding in high quantities of methanol so burdening the farmers (which could possibly drive up food prices) would not cure this type of laundering.

Carazy

trevorbrady wrote: »

just abolish green diesel, make farmers buy the normal stuff, keep their receipts and give them a tax rebate at the end of the year.

it would do away with fuel laundering and all the criminality associated with it and in turn the criminality it funds...

am I being naieve (sp?) in presuming this is an easy fix?

I wouldn't consider abolishing green diesel as an option.

How could you regulate such an option. If this was the case the farmer could give receipts for all their diesel vehicles ( e.g family cars) and not just their agricultural vehicles. It would lead to everyone giving their fuel receipts to their relatives who are farmers etc. to rebate tax for all their cars.

macplaxton

2cv wrote: »

I believe they charge £35 per car per year off the road in the UK, so being the copy cats they are, they'll probably charge for it over here

You believe wrong Dave, it's gratis.

(I've got two on SORN and one that doesn't need doing as it was last taxed before the SORN scheme was introduced.)

macplaxton

unkel wrote: »

But the SORN system is better than what we have now. Then again with minimal enforcement it won't make any difference.

I don't believe the SORN system does anything other than give me (a law abiding vehicle keeper) more paperwork to do (and fines if I forget). Same with CIE (Continuous Insurance Enforcement).

Only this:


might make some difference.

Then again, it might be a big headache if the vehicle database details aren't up to scratch.

kevin65

When I took my BMW 318is off the road 4 years ago and didn't renew the tax, I got a form from Galway council to fill in to declare the car was off the road. So, has there been some system in place already to declare a car as being off the road? I'm glad I kept a photocopy of the completed form.

2cv

macplaxton wrote: »

You believe wrong Dave, it's gratis.

(I've got two on SORN and one that doesn't need doing as it was last taxed before the SORN scheme was introduced.)

I stand corrected :-)

In fact, Holland has a similar system and over there you have to pay for it....

Sids Not

Oh dear..does that mean i cant tax for 3 months and rest for 3 months anymore...........;)

unkel

Carazy wrote: »

I wouldn't consider abolishing green diesel as an option.

I would consider that an excellent option myself. But no discounts, rebates for anyone, including farmers. Problem solved apart from a few angry farmers (and very angry fuel launderers )

The question is, do we have a minister with the balls to announce this?

kevin65

unkel wrote: »

Carazy wrote: »

I wouldn't consider abolishing green diesel as an option.

I would consider that an excellent option myself. But no discounts, rebates for anyone, including farmers. Problem solved apart from a few angry farmers (and very angry fuel launderers )

The question is, do we have a minister with the balls to announce this?

Bigger question is do we have any ministers with brains and balls to do anything right?

Markcheese

When did this become the political bashing thread.... Should we just shoot ministers on apointment, save time and hassle....
The number plate recognition on squad cars works pretty well at moment ( eldery neighbor got pullied on way home from garage with a new 2nd hand car).But I can't imagine my local Garda inputting info onto the motor tax records very quickly...the forms will prob be sent to a central office where they'll wait processing might take 3 months.....:)

kevin65

The most efficient way would be an online system where you can log in and declare your car off the road for a specified period. The number plate recognition system in the Garda cars could be linked to it.

cian1500ww

Anyone know when this will come in to effect?

2cv

cian1500ww wrote: »

Anyone know when this will come in to effect?

The article didn't mention it

ahal

I've no time for anyone avoiding paying tax ... as usual the minority (sizeable enough it would seem) ruin the thing. My tax was out since March '12 so basically I 'grounded' the car for quite a while, then today got the dough together and went down to Bray at 9.20. Sure enough, not open until 10.30 (10.30 - 2 pm!!!)

Went back down again to find that they don't do tax of a friday. I said to guy behind the desk "Is this what the €100 household charge is for ... community services?"

He looked a bit nervous so I thanked him and bogged off to Wicklow. Sorry, that was a bit of a rant. Anyway, I have a couple of cars and I've always been happy to be able to go into the Garda station and get something that hasn't been on the road exempted for 3/4 years of motor tax. I've never falsely declared a car for 'non use' period. It's amazing though, how many people have suggested lately that I do this with my daily runner :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, Motor tax is a fooken scam through and through. Urinating on one's neighbour isn't the way to deal with it though.

Dades

There's no way they could try and apply it retrospectively to cars currently off the road.

As suggested, they'll fix a date after which gaps in a currently taxed car's history will have to be paid for unless the owner uses the new process.

macplaxton

I'd like to think that they'd do that.

But given the pig's ear they make of drafting some legislation properly*, it's no guarantee that they will.

*one example: (Road Traffic Act (2010) - Section 63) - Legislation brought in last year is not being applied because the wording was not changed to force motorists to bring their licences to court.

Markcheese

ahal wrote: »

I've no time for anyone avoiding paying tax ... as usual the minority (sizeable enough it would seem) ruin the thing. My tax was out since March '12 so basically I 'grounded' the car for quite a while, then today got the dough together and went down to Bray at 9.20. Sure enough, not open until 10.30 (10.30 - 2 pm!!!)

Went back down again to find that they don't do tax of a friday. I said to guy behind the desk "Is this what the €100 household charge is for ... community services?"

He looked a bit nervous so I thanked him and bogged off to Wicklow. Sorry, that was a bit of a rant. Anyway, I have a couple of cars and I've always been happy to be able to go into the Garda station and get something that hasn't been on the road exempted for 3/4 years of motor tax. I've never falsely declared a car for 'non use' period. It's amazing though, how many people have suggested lately that I do this with my daily runner :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, Motor tax is a fooken scam through and through. Urinating on one's neighbour isn't the way to deal with it though.

+ 1
Realisticaly anyone who was doing the 3 months off , 3 on is going to be on the new system in short time .... 6 months or less I suppose , and if they outsource the data entry or as above make it online self declaration it'll work well..... Prob is making false sworn statements and actual perjury aren't that big a deal here unlike in the uk and continent......

WDB123

How about that shower taking a pay cut in the dail,civil service employees start living in the real world and trying to suit the people closing for dinner closed at 4 dont tax cars on a friday,open at 10am
Absolute BS and now more reason to come in contact with them !!!!!!

Sam Russell

Road tax on the petrol would add about 40c to a litre of fuel. It could be introduced slowly by raising the fuel tax and reducing roadtax by the equivalent amount over a few years.

Another scheme would be to add road tax to the insurance, collected by the insurance company. Cheap for the Government as someone else does the leg work. Good for the motorist (the ones that pay insurance) and an incentive for the Traffic Copps Corps to catch those not insured. Perhaps the penalty for no insurance could be to crush the car plus high fines.

They could also pass responsibility for NCT observance to the insurance companies. Having an annual test for cars over 10 years, while no test for cars up to 4 years is just daft as 28% of cars at 4 years fail the test. I wonder how many would fail at 2 years? Bald tyres, missing lights, bad brakes, poor repairs after a prang, or missaligned steering caused by our lack of road repairs.

MercMad

I do thinks its time they did something on this issue. I have spoken with several people lately who have had their car stopped and taken from them there and then as their tax had expired many months earlier. I was shocked when these folk called the gardai..........well lets just say they used colorful language. It unreal how many people abuse the system and complain when caught !!

Surely if you can do motor tax on-line you should be able to do SORN on-line also, and simply severely fine folk who are not compliant.

Personally I have several cars off the road, some classics being restored and some semi-modern cars that I am simply not using. I should be allowed to do this without it costing me anything.

Also exactly where did the calculation of €55million come from, how did anyone arrive at that figure ? Through high motor tax rates they are driving cars off the road, and yet more than likely also including them in their stats.