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IAA Discussion - ground rules. Feedback wanted.
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11-05-2012 10:32pm#1Hello all.
Following on from the previous thread about the IAA forums being closed, we would like your thoughts on establishing some ground rules on what discussion should be hosted here.
Historically, we have not allowed threads about this because - well - you could ask them directly on their own public forum.
Bear in mind the following:
1. Boards is not the IAA, we cannot demand answers to questions that only members are entitled to ask and there are avenues open to ask those questions.
2. Accusations of any wrongdoing are prohibited on boards because of libel legislation - if paid-up voting members have issues with what's going on then they need to contact them directly, not through here.
3. Wouldn't it be better if we could all get along..
So, please post your thoughts on how we could facilitate IAA discussion here without it descending into madness as it has in that past.
This is YOUR forum, it does not belong to the mods (well, actually it belongs mostly to the site owners but you get what I mean) so if we are to lift the ban on discussing IAA stuff then everyone has to buy into how we do it.
Please stay on-topic, the floor is yours.6
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...there is new blood on the committee.
I hate to have to call a spade a spade, but seriously...this is Ireland. We tend to have a problem with everything, and love a good moan. If you walk into any pub, you will hear a hefty majority of people slating the government. These people will sound like they know something about the current (and past) situation, but when you grill them you realise it's only what's filtered down to them from more knowledgeable people...and that's exactly what we get with people about the IAA.
People moan about things that they A) do not understand/comprehend, or
want to understand/comprehend. If people were truly interested in the good of the association then people would be a lot more constructive, supportive and in general, active. But we're not. Moan we shall. And that's the way it will likely remain.
I am all for free discussion, and think it should be allowed, but why does it need separate rules? Where is the conspiracy and fear? Boards.ie has rules in place against defamatory posts, and moderators are there to enforce without bias, so wherever it gets personal you just warn, snip where necessary and keep discussion on track.
I understand Dave's points, but I just dislike banned topics...it's...stifling.0 -
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Wow still can't beleave no 14 is still up despite the complete bull **** statement it is .
Iaa discussion should be free and open on here. boards .ie is the home of irish airsoft we all have a right to discuss our governing body free from personal attacks and insults ,its a community not a private club for a few select members or posters
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Good feedback so far, please keep it coming.
I know we can apply existing bards rules to this but, in fairness, that would mean having to sanction and / or ban people when things inevitably get nasty.. nobody wants that if we can avoid it.. 0 -
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Master of the UniverseJoin Date:Posts: 35090
If it can be discussed without descending into a farcical airing of dirty laundry than it would be nice to see the community has matured enough to allow it.
I've been out away from airsoft for a long time so for all I know it's completely different now - but back in times passed it took so much effort to moderate (from removing libelous posts, to blatant personal insults, floods of PMs to trawl through - even some death threats) that we just had to put a stop to it. It was far too time consuming - not to mention just plain stressful for everyone involved.
It does seem a bit more sedate in here now though. So it's probably time to give it another go. 0 -
If it can be discussed without descending into a farcical airing of dirty laundry than it would be nice to see the community has matured enough to allow it.
I've been out away from airsoft for a long time so for all I know it's completely different now - but back in times passed it took so much effort to moderate (from removing libelous posts, to blatant personal insults, floods of PMs to trawl through - even some death threats) that we just had to put a stop to it. It was far too time consuming - not to mention just plain stressful for everyone involved.
It does seem a bit more sedate in here now though. So it's probably time to give it another go.
<snip>
There are a number of reason why the talk will be fine and and should be encouraged
1) The modded threads back then was when IASRA was in its inception. That horse of ****e is long gone and there won't be two sides fueding like that for some time. Moderators did a decent job in removing the bollox, yet allowing the conversation and debates to flow and continue. Significantly more workload, yet now we have double the mods, there is no excuse.
2) Its the national organisation, how on gods earth you can expect to have a community forum, where you cant talk about decisions and things about the national governing body, is ludacrous. Its like the Soccer forum banning talk about the FAI. What? Because the IAA post and read here we have to be all tight arsed about it?
3) There is more slander and libel that goes on elsewhere on the site by the second then what gets posted here. So it needs to be stopped being used as an excuse to avoid having actually interesting threads and debates, either site wide things get tougher and more strict, or you can let it slide like most other forums do, its used way to much here as an excuse for harsh moderation.
Fair enough you need to cover your arses, but it will only ever be the same old same old who ever threaten legal action, and has been pointed out more then enough, its always empty threats with no followup, mostly because their is the realisation it is not slanderous or libellous considering there is documented proof. Thats not relating to any specific incidents or individuals, but the clever people don't make claims without having their arses covered.
I've got atleast 4-5 legal threats from previous or current posters here and it got to the point where it was embarrassing, having to e-mail and ring asking did they maybe spell the address wrong or something. For obvious outragous things like name calling and the likes, thats fair enough. But if its a valid comment or statement, that has an benefit to the discussion as a counter arguement or whatever, it should be allowed to stand once it is not absolutely disgusting or obviously requires moving.
4) The forum is dead. There is **** all traffic that comes through anymore, and even less actual interesting threads or discussions. This can probably be drawn back to link with about the time that the IAA discussion was first put aside. Everyone loves a bit of drama, but the IAA threads also revealed the most thrilling and stimulating discussions, debates and arguements this forum ever had.
From it, people got involved, and eventually ended up helping working with the IAA. People got educated and got their views across. Alot of people earned the communities respect by putting forward calculated and proper arguements and counter arguements.
The loss of the IAA discussions ment a loss in interest in the forum, a loss of thrill and getting a bit of grit between your teeth getting in for a row. As such most influential people in the community lost interest and have gone elsewhere.
Whilst there is other and probably more potent reasons for the exodus of alot of former regulars, it cannot be ignored the fact that the loss of these core individuals will most likely result in the IAA discussions that take place henceworth, to be extremely easily moderated, maintaned and run.
In fairness just look at the quality and content of threads in the last few weeks/months against the ones from the absolute pinnacle of IAA threads. Its easy moderation.
And at the end of the day, we have had 150 million conversations about moderation , and I'm not getting into it again, since it just falls on deaf ears all the time, but you cannot just outlaw conversation and discussions to make your moderation life easier.
As Oisin said, back when he was modding the IAA threads, and just general population of the forum was as high as it ever was, and in fairness it was daunting to mod.
But there was himself, TheMaster, KDouglas and lemming and possibly one more or something. And they got by fine, and were for the most part amicible in how they dealt with stuff. For alongtime there was only like 1-2 active mods
We now have Andy,Thermo,Steve,Deburca and Dogwatch, for possibly the quietest period of the forum. There should be absolutely ZERO workload on you for moderation, and re-opening the IAA discussions won't bring anymore.0 -
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Well, that'd be me. I've no affiliations with any airsoft factions (and I'm not suggesting other mods have)
I think the way forward here is in the lap of the forum users and their ability to post without being anal - to put it mildly. 0 -
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Good, we can make progress.
So you and your fellow team mates are biased against the Moderators because some of them played at a particular site....... Perhaps you would like to tell us the reasoning behind this .
Fay can speak for himself but to mildly elaborate something that bugs me.
Fayer, like myself, started our gaming off in HRTA. And I know I personally look back on it fondly. I met alot of guys there I now socialise with and call friends. Its where I first learned about the game and how the game was played, the rules, the honour in the sport and then how to get better at the game.
I met alot of nice people, and on the days I would be done I was playing alot with Fayer and at times with "The Ghosts" (RIP) and "The Hawks" (RIP). At one point we were asked to come on board for a trial. The Hawks were very much based in HRTA, and afaik all the original members were all HRTA homebirds.
HRTA was very accommodating to the team allowing training sessions and private invitational matches and the likes. And as we became more attuned to milsim style of play, HRTA was also accommodating in allowing people to be innovative and creative to run their style of games and play milsim.
Now I don't remember exactly when it happened or how it happened, but there came a point where HRTA and a few lads on the team had a bit of a falling out, and it wasn't a light one. There was some serious threats levelled and some serious allegations. I'll let them go into it if they want. But it was serious enough to draw a meeting of the group, where a decision was to be made. And as a group we decided in support of the lads, that we would not attend the site as regularly as before. In saying that we still went and we still played the odd time, but our interested drifted away. And to be frank the team in general then hit the decline.
That's the short and sweet of it. There was always this impression that we like boycotted the site up in arms and did this and that. We simply had a chat, decided that we didn't agree with the stuff they were getting accused off and we would just play elsewhere. No mega fuss no big deal. It only became something when others started making a big deal out of it.
I think it was the lads having run ins whilst on the IAA commitee, which also why it tends to come up into conversation when HRTA is mentioned, as the site went from a very pro supporter into a disruptive anti supporter or something along those lines.
I just wanted to write the above, as there was always a horrible misconception of why certain members of our group stopped playing there. And in fairness, some of the guys disagreed, they said they wanted to stick playing there and it was fine, and really after that point is probably when we we started to slowly drift towards disbanding.
And when I mention HRTA above most people know I mean Paul, and the assistance he had throughout his time running the site with Mel and other volunteers and marshalls. And I have very fond memories of the site. And for as much as Paul has let himself down with some very inaccurate public remarks over the last few years, I'd be lying if I said that as a player I wasn't appreciative of the effort he put into site and trying to allow a milsim environment to grow, the support he'd provide as a site owner when there was issues with batteries or guns, for being a good host and providing me my entrance into the game and a place to play and meet the lads every weekend. And jokes aside, for being an advocate of welcoming younger players, who are the future, rather then scorn them for being too young to play, and also for being very accommodating when financialy gaming wasn't viable.
I never got involved deeply in the back and forth that caused this deep rooted un trust, and in a way seeing some of the public remarks from Paul did put me off playing there. But I have no problem in saying I am and will be fully appreciative of Pauls efforts whilst running HRTA for the years I played there and there is many a time where I wish I could go back to that time when the game was honourable, fun, and we hadn't gotten involved in the politics, and I'm sure maybe somewhere deep down the other lads feel the same too.
But in its simpliest form, for a game played across the country, its simply just wrong to have people getting nominated and picked from the same site, who are mates.
I've no problem where you play, or who you are mates with. But when the forum needs transparency, and re-installment of trust and integrity, we need fresh outlooks a new viewpoint, not another guy from the same group of people. Now I'm sorry that is tarring you with the one brush.
But the minute you posted about the IAA auditing of threads or something, it was very clear that at some point you had a chat with Andy G and probably Ozcam and some others be it through PM, email or whilst onsite together, and had a discussion about how Andy would open a thread, and you would ask that question.
Lads we are knocking about the internet a long time, you couldnt have made it more blatant what you were trying to do in that thread, so in from that point ( and I dont know if I've actually ever met you) straight away I determined- Hes in with Andy and the lads
- Hes anti-IAA
- Hes going to be hassle
Week or two later your a mod...see what I'm getting at?0 -
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