AER LINGUS- ISSUE

KayleighRen

ok, so i had an exchange flight with Aerlingus sometime ago last year around mid sept...
when i was checking in with aerlingus at the gate in amsterdam, i came across some issue with them. they told half of that day's passengers (including me) that they dont have any more spaces for our hand luggage and insisted us we must give them our luggages to be put into the hold. on the spot i made it VERY VERY CLEAR to them that my luggage contained fragiles. I also had shown their staff my luggage and the items in it. I asked if they could give me an exception or allow me to bring the items onto the plane with me but they refused and insisted that i MUST give them my luggage. They also ensured me that the luggages will arrive in dublin soundly.
so when i went to collect the luggages, guess what, my hand luggage was wrecked... and the items in it was literally in bits... so i went to the costumer service and made my claims to them... and they were been a horrible bitch... well one of them were... the other one was alright, but not the best.
so then i wrote in a letter of complaint... and guess what, they ****ing ignored it! so like.. 2-3 weeks later, i went and wrote them another one, this time posted by rigistered post, and as expected, the next 2 days i got a response...
still refusing to admit they were at fault... and i even went in to talk to them... they were talking loada bullcrap - policy policy policy.... well, their policy is to make their consumers happy not upset!

I had to spend a good few months negotiating to them, and they still wont admit it was their fault.... so i made a claim towards them through the small claim court... and the tuesday coming is the hearing...

they refused to make me a refund on my items, but they firstly offered me a €100 voucher if im willing to sort it out without the hearing at court... i refused the offer... and this time.. they offered me €318 again - which is how much i claimed for. but then the voucher will expire within a year... and i wont be travelling any time soon...

but now im considering... whether or not to accept the voucher... or just go to the hearing and see what the judge says..

this is like a live or die decision... well not as bad, but quite stressful.

so, i need suggestions... if you were at my position... what will your choice be? go or accept?

thanks.

christmas2012

whats the issue?:eek:

Keep in mind this guy is in 5th year. :rolleyes:

Procrastastudy

I'd go to court -it's possible they won't turn up.

NOT LEGAL ADVICE I KNOW SWEET FA - SERIOUSLY SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE MESS I MADE OF MY CONLAW EXAM!

Incidentally airline passengers: Next time someone is narky/charges you for out sized hand luggage - this is why.

dudara

Threads merged. TBH I'm having a hard time reading your post. The use of txtspk like "LOL" and the general structure makes it hard to read.

BrianD

Why were you carrying fragile items like this?

There was no guarantee of "safe passage" in the cabin either. People ram bags into the overhead compartments - I normally do. There's also the risk of passengers stepping on items under seats.

In reality you should have packed the fragile items suitable and expressly placed them in the hold marked as fragile or used a suitable shipper.

Did you have the items insured?

a_v525

Just to let you know Small Claims Court will not award you "damages" (i.e. personal loss) they will only award you the value of your claim (the €318). You will not benefit financially from SCC you will just be given the value of your broken items and that is it. If Aer Lingus are offering you an extra €100 voucher on top of this to settle, I'd take that but if you just want your €318 then go to court.

Yamanoto

BrianD wrote: »

Why were you carrying fragile items like this?

There was no guarantee of "safe passage" in the cabin either. People ram bags into the overhead compartments - I normally do. There's also the risk of passengers stepping on items under seats.

In reality you should have packed the fragile items suitable and expressly placed them in the hold marked as fragile or used a suitable shipper.

I frequently travel for work with high-value medical devices in hand luggage. The overhead compartment is by far the best place for delicate items in my experience, (folks in general don't ram stuff in - if they do, asking them to go easy has always worked).

There's no way I'd entrust fragile items to the hold - you can plaster them in labels and package them industrially but there's simply no guarantee they'll avoid loss, damage or theft.

As an aside, on a recent EI LHR-DUB flight, we were all asked to check hand luggage in at the gate as we were informed the flight was full. Once on board, it became clear the agent had either been misinformed or was being economical with the truth.

I'm not surprised Aer Lingus didn't react well to your letter if it was as incomprehensible as the post above. I can hardly make out some of the dealings.

If you want €318 in cash then you may get it, but certainly no more, in court (I assume you have receipts for the full amount that you can make available to the court) but there is actually no guarantee of safe passage of luggage. And, you will need to prove that they were wrapped properly for transit - even hand luggage would need to have been packed properly if the items were that fragile. You admit the items were fragile and therefore should have had them particularly well wrapped. Also have you proof that you warned them the luggage contained fragile items - if you did they would have labelled it as such so show the labels to the court.

It's less than 50/50 for you if they contest it.

KayleighRen

BrianD wrote: »

Why were you carrying fragile items like this?

There was no guarantee of "safe passage" in the cabin either. People ram bags into the overhead compartments - I normally do. There's also the risk of passengers stepping on items under seats.

In reality you should have packed the fragile items suitable and expressly placed them in the hold marked as fragile or used a suitable shipper.

Did you have the items insured?

I wanted to bring onto the plane with me, thats why i had all my valubles and fragiles in the hand luggage... but then while i was checking in with them, they said they ran out of the overhead comparments and told us we HAVE to give them the luggage and to be put into the hold. Yes, im aware of all that, like if it was broken in my hands due to my carelessness then i wouldnt complain, but it wasnt at my hands.
yeah, i sealed those items in a bubble bag, it wouldve been fine if taken with care. When i was insisted to put the hand luggage into the hold, i asked them can they a note or tag on the luggage and say its fragile and breakable, they said that they can't do that as they dont have any.. so i made it clear serval times that it has to arrive safely coz it was quite important. nope, didnt get any insurance... 'cause they never insure nothing..

KayleighRen

Alfred Silly Scooter wrote: »

I'm not surprised Aer Lingus didn't react well to your letter if it was as incomprehensible as the post above. I can hardly make out some of the dealings.

If you want €318 in cash then you may get it, but certainly no more, in court (I assume you have receipts for the full amount that you can make available to the court) but there is actually no guarantee of safe passage of luggage. And, you will need to prove that they were wrapped properly for transit - even hand luggage would need to have been packed properly if the items were that fragile. You admit the items were fragile and therefore should have had them particularly well wrapped. Also have you proof that you warned them the luggage contained fragile items - if you did they would have labelled it as such so show the labels to the court.

It's less than 50/50 for you if they contest it.

I got one of my bussines teacher to write me the letter, it was made very clear to them, and they knew what i was on about. All i need is €318 refund for the items, im not look for more. the ladies in amsterdam saw how my items and luggage was wrapped.. but then aer lingus is telling me that they don't know who was working there that day, and that they arent their staff... like... seriously? for real? two living person, in THEIR uniform, and they say they arent their staff...
I can't find the women that were working there that day... they refuse to contact them.. and i dont know how to. I did everything to protect that luggage. they are taken carefully, wrapped well enough that it shouldnt break if it was taken with care.
Yeah i know... as their lawers may wanna manipulate things around... -sign-

KayleighRen

a_v525 wrote: »

Just to let you know Small Claims Court will not award you "damages" (i.e. personal loss) they will only award you the value of your claim (the €318). You will not benefit financially from SCC you will just be given the value of your broken items and that is it. If Aer Lingus are offering you an extra €100 voucher on top of this to settle, I'd take that but if you just want your €318 then go to court.

Thanks for the notice, i knew it all along. Im not looking for anything extra, there's no need looking for those kind of money. All i need was a refund on the broken objects. they DID NOT offered my extra, they first offered €100 out of €318 to settle down.. but then i refused and now they offered what i have claimed.. so im doubting should i accept or not since its voucher not cash.. which will expire next year

KayleighRen

Yamanoto wrote: »

There's no way I'd entrust fragile items to the hold - you can plaster them in labels and package them industrially but there's simply no guarantee they'll avoid loss, damage or theft.

As an aside, on a recent EI LHR-DUB flight, we were all asked to check hand luggage in at the gate as we were informed the flight was full. Once on board, it became clear the agent had either been misinformed or was being economical with the truth.

I didnt have the choice, literally i was at the check in gate, and they told me that they ran out of spaces in the comparments. and yes, that is what happened to me too.. they told me that it was full, but then there was actually plenty of spaces in the overhead compartments. When they said that they can't allow me to bring the luggage on after i showed them that my luggage had fragiles, i asked them can they then put a note or tag say that it's fragile.. they responsed that they dont have any tags for it but they will pass on the message- so i believed them as they promised me in the title of aerlingus.

Gileadi

Take the voucher, sell it to the next family/friend who is booking a flight.

That way you 100% get your cash without the risk of an Aer Lingus solicitor/barrister showing up and blowing you out of the water. This will also save you the hassle of having to attend the court.

You have nothing to gain by attending other than wasting a day

KayleighRen

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I'd go to court -it's possible they won't turn up.

NOT LEGAL ADVICE I KNOW SWEET FA - SERIOUSLY SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE MESS I MADE OF MY CONLAW EXAM!

Incidentally airline passengers: Next time someone is narky/charges you for out sized hand luggage - this is why.

yeah.. maybe i should. Thats what alot of the people say.. but then if they do turn up, their laywers would probably twist things around.. so i dont know.

John Mason

same thing happened to us in Naples a few weeks ago but they managed to lose our hand luggage. :rolleyes:

you dont get this sh.it with Ryanair

KayleighRen

Gileadi wrote: »

Take the voucher, sell it to the next family/friend who is booking a flight.

That way you 100% get your cash without the risk of an Aer Lingus solicitor/barrister showing up and blowing you out of the water. This will also save you the hassle of having to attend the court.

You have nothing to gain by attending other than wasting a day

Thats what i thought.. like no offensive to some of the good lawyers out there... but majoratiy are evil... some will do anything to win the case..

yeah true, true, i can't miss anymore schooldays over them..
if i accept it
they probably will give me a voucher with MY NAME on it.. so i don't think i can sell it.. maybe its a time for me inviting my family on a trip this summer.

KayleighRen

dudara wrote: »

Threads merged. TBH I'm having a hard time reading your post. The use of txtspk like "LOL" and the general structure makes it hard to read.

Im very sorry.. I can't help it. My english is **** ye know. Its not my first language and i'm only new in this country

KayleighRen

irishbird wrote: »

same thing happened to us in Naples a few weeks ago but they managed to lose our hand luggage. :rolleyes:

you dont get this sh.it with Ryanair

I know!!! A good few years ago when i came here for a visit through aerlingus, They lost an entire LUGGAE that was like 23kgs and never bothered to find it for us. after this... not a chance they will see me on their consumer list.. their service is depressing

Procrastastudy

KayleighRen wrote: »

yeah.. maybe i should. Thats what alot of the people say.. but then if they do turn up, their laywers would probably twist things around.. so i don't know.

Courts go out of their way to facilitate lay litigants. This is only the SCC at most they'll send a solicitor. If you're in the right you'll win - if not you'll lose and have cost Aer Lingus way more than €318. Lawyers can't invent law - the judge will already have a fairly good idea where he's going to go.

That said the voucher is risk free.

Some notes on posting - it seems comments on it are allowed here. I've been ripped a new one in LS (politely) for doing it but here goes. People don't mind poor English but avoid text speak - that's missing letters out of words. End sentences with a full-stop(.) and begin new ones with a capital letter (A). For the love of God - and this goes for many people on boards use paragraphs! It makes posts much easier to read.

Leejo

KayleighRen wrote: »

I know!!! A good few years ago when i came here for a visit through aerlingus, They lost an entire LUGGAE that was like 23kgs and never bothered to find it for us. after this... not a chance they will see me on their consumer list.. their service is depressing

What difference does the weight of the luggage make?

You obviously don't travel often because it's very common that people have to check in luggage at the gate because the flight is full or close to full, either that or they limit people to one carry on bag and check in the other.

To be fair to Aer Lingus, if you're bag was quite big (for carry on) or you were one of the last on (sounds like you were by your first post saying half the people were told) and all of the hand luggage spaces were taken then there's not much they can do, but make you check it in.

Also, it worth remembering that the people you dealt with in Amsterdam weren't Aer Lingus staff but the handling agent.

KayleighRen

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Courts go out of their way to facilitate lay litigants. This is only the SCC at most they'll send a solicitor. If you're in the right you'll win - if not you'll lose and have cost Aer Lingus way more than €318. Lawyers can't invent law - the judge will already have a fairly good idea where he's going to go.

That said the voucher is risk free.

Some notes on posting - it seems comments on it are allowed here. I've been ripped a new one in LS (politely) for doing it but here goes. People don't mind poor English but avoid text speak - that's missing letters out of words. End sentences with a full-stop(.) and begin new ones with a capital letter (A). For the love of God - and this goes for many people on boards use paragraphs! It makes posts much easier to read.

Thanks for supplying me useful informations. I have never been to a court, so i don't know how it functions.. maybe it'd be a good experience.

Oh, sorry, I'll keep those mistakes in mind for the future. Thanks again!

KayleighRen

Leejo wrote: »

What difference does the weight of the luggage make?

You obviously don't travel often because it's very common that people have to check in luggage at the gate because the flight is full or close to full, either that or they limit people to one carry on bag and check in the other.

To be fair to Aer Lingus, if you're bag was quite big (for carry on) or you were one of the last on (sounds like you were by your first post saying half the people were told) and all of the hand luggage spaces were taken then there's not much they can do, but make you check it in.

Also, it worth remembering that the people you dealt with in Amsterdam weren't Aer Lingus staff but the handling agent.

Nope, just saying how amazing they can lose a luggage thats big enough to be spotted miles away.
and yes, this is the first time i have been asked to check my hand luggage in at the gate. I don't travell much with planes, i can use my 10 fingers to count the trips ive travelled on broad because i usually travell by ferries.
They arranged the people entering the plane by seat numbers. first half went in and many of them were allowed to bring 2-3 bags, (back bag, hand luggages, handbags, gifts and stuff..) and then when it comes to the other half of us, before they opened the gate, they said they ran out of spaces and we can bring close enough to nothing with us. Maybe females were allowed to bring their hand bags or them small waist bags where we usually put our passports and tickets, other than that, nope, nothing was allowed. If spaces were limited, I really do want to ask them why they allowed some of the first half of the people with 2-3 bags and us left with none.
huh.. but that doesnt make a difference, they woren the AL uniform, they represented them at that particular moment.

keithclancy

KayleighRen wrote: »

Nope, just saying how amazing they can lose a luggage thats big enough to be spotted miles away.
and yes, this is the first time i have been asked to check my hand luggage in at the gate. I don't travell much with planes, i can use my 10 fingers to count the trips ive travelled on broad because i usually travell by ferries.
They arranged the people entering the plane by seat numbers. first half went in and many of them were allowed to bring 2-3 bags, (back bag, hand luggages, handbags, gifts and stuff..) and then when it comes to the other half of us, before they opened the gate, they said they ran out of spaces and we can bring close enough to nothing with us. Maybe females were allowed to bring their hand bags or them small waist bags where we usually put our passports and tickets, other than that, nope, nothing was allowed. If spaces were limited, I really do want to ask them why they allowed some of the first half of the people with 2-3 bags and us left with none.
huh.. but that doesnt make a difference, they woren the AL uniform, they represented them at that particular moment.

Aerlingus flights are serviced by KLM Staff at the gate, I fly regularly with them and have never seen Aer Lingus staff manning the gate.

KayleighRen

keithclancy wrote: »

Aerlingus flights are serviced by KLM Staff at the gate, I fly regularly with them and have never seen Aer Lingus staff manning the gate.

but im possitive that on that day, i was served by 2 aerlingus staff and some klm dudes along the side checking and scanning us. the two ladies checking the ticket was from aerlingus.

keithclancy

KayleighRen wrote: »

but im possitive that on that day, i was served by 2 aerlingus staff and some klm dudes along the side checking and scanning us. the two ladies checking the ticket was from aerlingus.

Maybe, I'm just saying I fly between Schiphol and Dublin/Cork a good few times a year and i've never seen Aer Lingus staff at the gate.

Maybe the staff on board saw it was almost full and came out.

I'd complain, no way I'd stick my Laptop in hold luggage. If its going into the hold i pack it so its protected as it'll pretty much get flung around the place and have other stuff thrown on top of it.

Small claims would be the way to go i'd say.

BrianD

Yamanoto wrote: »

I frequently travel for work with high-value medical devices in hand luggage. The overhead compartment is by far the best place for delicate items in my experience, (folks in general don't ram stuff in - if they do, asking them to go easy has always worked).

There's no way I'd entrust fragile items to the hold - you can plaster them in labels and package them industrially but there's simply no guarantee they'll avoid loss, damage or theft.

As an aside, on a recent EI LHR-DUB flight, we were all asked to check hand luggage in at the gate as we were informed the flight was full. Once on board, it became clear the agent had either been misinformed or was being economical with the truth.

That's a bad way to carry high value items! Surely you would be under insured in the event of a mishap.

As for the the ramming - everybody does it now. You squeeze your bag in and that includes "ramming" which might be a little dramatic but close enough. There should be no "fragiles" up there.

It does amuse me that you'll get some indignant passenger hop up and claim that that they have their prize wicker work basket up there that needs to be protected and you have to ask what they are thinking.

Mind you a friend of mine brought his fathers ashes on as hand luggage so I suppose you never do know what exactly is in the bag beside yours!

Yamanoto

BrianD wrote: »

That's a bad way to carry high value items! Surely you would be under insured in the event of a mishap.

As I said previously, placing high value items in the hold (as passenger baggage) increases the likelihood of loss, damage or theft. Where my own travel is concerned, hand-carrying the items is company policy - I'd be pretty sure that's based upon risk assessment in consultation with transport and logistics partners.

BrianD wrote: »

As for the the ramming - everybody does it now. You squeeze your bag in and that includes "ramming" which might be a little dramatic but close enough. There should be no "fragiles" up there.

I've yet to experience damage in transit as a result of what you describe above. Folks using a bit of heft to secure bags in overhead compartments isn't comparable to the stress and physical force checked-in bags routinely experience en route to destination.

We may have to disagree on this point, may be well OT also.

BrianD wrote: »

Mind you a friend of mine brought his fathers ashes on as hand luggage so I suppose you never do know what exactly is in the bag beside yours!

KayleighRen

keithclancy wrote: »

Maybe, I'm just saying I fly between Schiphol and Dublin/Cork a good few times a year and i've never seen Aer Lingus staff at the gate.

Maybe the staff on board saw it was almost full and came out.

I'd complain, no way I'd stick my Laptop in hold luggage. If its going into the hold i pack it so its protected as it'll pretty much get flung around the place and have other stuff thrown on top of it.

Small claims would be the way to go i'd say.

yeah, from what i remembered, for that 2 times i traveled through schipol and frankfrut i was served by klm staffs, but every time i travel through amsterdam, i mostly get served by aer lingus staffs. Probably different airport functions differently. Yeah, i made my complaint to aerlingus, they refuse to accept the responsibility.. so i made it to through the SCC and tuesday is gonna be the hearing at the court house.

yeah i know.. i did pack it probably, and i didn't even want to give it to them, i knew the consequences if i put them in the hold.. since they promised me so confidently, i had no choice but to give it to them. i suggested every possible way to protect the items and have it in my own hands :
- can you please give me an exemption because i have some very valuable items in the luggage. "no"
- can i bring the important items onto the plane with me? - 'no'
- can you please put a tag or sticker on my hand luggage and say its fragiles.- 'but we don't have such a sticker'
- are you sure it will arrive safely?- "we promise it will be fine, the message gets passed on, and it will arrive safely."

but ahh well.. i've learnt from my lesson... if i ever HAVE to travel with aerlingus, i will not hand over any of my hand luggage.

I'm not sure if i should go to the hearing... their lawyers would probably manipulate things around because they know more laws than i do.. and if i say something wrong or phrased it wrong, who knows how they'll nail me down... it's rather scary..

Yamanoto

KayleighRen wrote: »

yeah, from what i remembered, for that 2 times i traveled through schipol and frankfrut i was served by klm staffs, but every time i travel through amsterdam, i mostly get served by aer lingus staffs.

Schipol is Amsterdam airport.

KLM manage the gate procedures - Aer Lingus have no involvement, unless you spoke to them on the gangway immediately prior to boarding.

Hope the SCC works out for you - is attendance not mandatory?