Alternatives to Diageo

ronanmc1987

Hi,im a bar owner and have been scanning through the net to find an alternative supplier as I am sick of dealing with Diageo as they operate a complete monopoly in my eyes and Im sick of their bully tactics.

I know I wont find a supplier with Bud,Guiness,Smithwicks etc but does anyone know of a supplier who provides for eg. Staropramen,Grolsch,Kronenburg,different brands of Stout....basically replacement brands.

I have contacted numerous breweries around Ireland supplying craft beer but frankly there response bar 8 degrees has been appauling which is disappointing because I really want to go down this route.

Any info would be really appreciated!

BeerNut

Shame about the Irish breweries. If you haven't totally given up on them, there's a full listing here.

Staropramen is C&C in Clonmel (for now). Grolsch is MolsonCoors in Maynooth. Kronenbourg is no longer distributed following the takeover of Beamish. FourCorners in Dublin do BrewDog draught beers.

Your stout options are pretty limited. Heineken have two, obviously. O'Hara's, Franciscan Well and the Porterhouse all distribute theirs to some degree, but you might not want to go with them, as you said. But one of the best in the country IMO is 8 Degrees Knockmealdown Porter: beautiful on draught.

ronanmc1987

Thanks so much for that full listing beernut....very helpful!,Im based in Cavan which unfortunately means the irish breweries have little interest going by their lack of response.

What about Stella,Budvar and Miller,any idea who distributes these?

caff

http://www.barkeeper.ie/page.asp?menu=97&page=289

http://www.noreast.ie/beer.php do budvar


List of brands and their suppliers.

ronanmc1987

Thanks a million!..cheers!

BeerNut

ronanmc1987 wrote: »

What about Stella,Budvar and Miller,any idea who distributes these?

Stella is C&C again. They also do Hoegaarden and Leffe.

Budvar is Noreast as caff says. They also do Erdinger and Fischer's. Fischer's is gorgeous.

Miller is Richmond Marketing -- that Barkeeper.ie list is at least three years out of date. "Beamish & Crawford Plc" :rolleyes:

ronanmc1987

You both are very knowledgable in this area!...maybe too much so!...if only i had locals like yourselves! ...have either of u any personal recomendations??,yas have taken me out of hole...only so far google search can get ya...its really appreciated!

BeerNut

ronanmc1987 wrote: »

any personal recomendations?

Being brutally honest, I would want to see Irish beer, unpleasant and all as that may be to hear.

rubadub

As far as I know there is nothing to stop you buying lidl brand beer and selling it. I would take a bottle of perlenbacher over anything my local has. It would also make a great story, people telling others 'that new pub is selling lidl beer, you have to see it' -I think it could even get you free advertising in a paper as its a proper 2 fingers up to the breweries and would make a good article. Even just a few bottles are needed.

The other is sourcing from the UK. My local eurospar sometimes has Irish heineken 4.3% cans for €1.90 alongside scottish market 5% heineken for €1.50 (both brewed in holland). I know most pubs have this weird/irrational opposition to serving cans but I know many heineken drinkers who would gladly have a can of 5% dutch brew over a pint of irish brewed 4.3% on draught. You might be able to source 5% bottles cheaper too, some pubs do them already. My mate is barman and the owner gets all his heineken bottles in supermarkets, which is legit.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a supplier of guinness from the UK who could do it cheaper. I know the aviva stadium threatened to import from the UK as it ended up cheaper.

I'd also stick a suggestion box in the pub for beers local people want to see.

ronanmc1987

BeerNut wrote: »

Being brutally honest, I would want to see Irish beer, unpleasant and all as that may be to hear.

Not at all,that is exactly what I want to achieve,its becoming difficult sourcing a supplier who can deliver at a reasonable rate,its looking like i am going to have to collect it myself!,once i started researching this I thought I may as well research as much brands as I could!

Waiting on prices from a few Irish breweries as that is the determining factor unfortunately.

Thanks for your help BeerNut!

ronanmc1987

rubadub wrote: »

As far as I know there is nothing to stop you buying lidl brand beer and selling it. I would take a bottle of perlenbacher over anything my local has. It would also make a great story, people telling others 'that new pub is selling lidl beer, you have to see it' -I think it could even get you free advertising in a paper as its a proper 2 fingers up to the breweries and would make a good article. Even just a few bottles are needed.

The other is sourcing from the UK. My local eurospar sometimes has Irish heineken 4.3% cans for €1.90 alongside scottish market 5% heineken for €1.50 (both brewed in holland). I know most pubs have this weird/irrational opposition to serving cans but I know many heineken drinkers who would gladly have a can of 5% dutch brew over a pint of irish brewed 4.3% on draught. You might be able to source 5% bottles cheaper too, some pubs do them already. My mate is barman and the owner gets all his heineken bottles in supermarkets, which is legit.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a supplier of guinness from the UK who could do it cheaper. I know the aviva stadium threatened to import from the UK as it ended up cheaper.

I'd also stick a suggestion box in the pub for beers local people want to see.

Thanks for your suggestions!,id rather not source from the UK but I will definetly look into it if needs be,im trying to shop local these days as much as possible which is why im eager to get into the Irish Craft beer route.

I like the suggestion box,will def use that!

In my area buying from Aldi could be a hard sell!...havnt u heard the rumour of the scabby Cavanman!

rubadub

ronanmc1987 wrote: »

the rumour of the scabby Cavanman!

never even copped that, seriously the papers would lap up that story even more!

I was in a pub in enniscorthy which had nothing but cans, not bottles or draught, and not even a fridge for the cans and only a few seats, we went in for a laugh on a stag, had plenty of locals popping in. The toilet was out the back in the rain, no roof or door, I think the place had half burnt down.

Berty

Well as the resident Noreast salesperson on this forum you are not in the minority of people who are looking away from the big boys and looking to provide something "different" to your customers.

Beernut is right. Fischers is gorgeous. I had a pint of Fischers on Sunday which was my first since September( I think ). Damn stuff only comes in keg form and I live out in the sticks with only old man pubs around me. :mad:

My suggestion. Go mad getting in different bottles of assortments brand from Ireland and abroad and see which ones fit your customers.

But if it is something to provide directly against Diageo in the Guinness format then why not try Porterhouse Plain or Oyster Stout.

As a publican I'm sure you already have a wholesaler like Gleesons or somebody. Get them to give you their full world beer pricelist and either come back here or dip your toe in the water.

BeerNut

Beer Baron wrote: »

Go mad getting in different bottles

I don't think bottles can ever be a proper substitution for draught beer in the pub.

Bigcheeze

In Cavan you may have more luck with breweries north of the border. e.g. Whitewater and Hilden probably distribute around Ulster.

BeerNut

But then you have to sort out export duties and the like (yes: you do!). Hilden's distributor in the Republic is California Wine Imports in Dublin.

slayerking

Its really great to see regular bars seeking out alternatives.

IMO, Irish craft beer is in a really great place right now, there are so many great Irish beers on the market at the moment plus its great to support the locals.

One word of advice if you do manage to get some interesting beer (whether Irish or not) in on draught... Most regular customers wont have a clue what it is and simply pass it (even if its the nicest beer in the world). Ireland has a strange nation of brand loyal drinkers, though it is changing slowly.
Most customers really believe that the drinks they see on the tv are the premium drinks and anything else is sub par. The big players in the drinks industry have huge advertising budgets and this works really well to sell their product.
The smaller micro breweries really have no budget for advertising and the products are sold almost by word of mouth.
This is where good owners, barmen and staff come in. Sometimes the smaller products need just a little push. Posters, chalkboards, infoboards and knowledgable staff really help sell craft beer. I think if you get that right, your on to a winner. Most Irish craft beer is delish, its getting people to break the habit and try it thats the hard part!

Best of luck with it.

caff

You can try different ways to get people interested like tasting sessions on weekends or beer of the week. If you serve food you can offer suggestions on the menu of beers that suit each meal.

It couldn't hurt either to get in touch with one of the bars in Dublin, Cork or Galway that stock a large selection of beers and ask them for supplier info.

Zebra3

rubadub wrote: »

I'd also stick a suggestion box in the pub for beers local people want to see.

A very simple idea which could save a lot of publicans.

oblivious

Zebra3 wrote: »

A very simple idea which could save a lot of publicans.

Got a feeling that cheap lager is going to feature a lot

Zebra3

oblivious wrote: »

Got a feeling that cheap lager is going to feature a lot

There's no one size fits all solution for every pub in the country.

Some pubs will serve great food, decent selection of beers. Others will get by on selling Tuborg at 2.95 a pint.

ronanmc1987

Thanks a lot everyone,really good suggestions,I tried some of the o'hara range last night,i was really impressed!!...i think the POA is get maybe 3-4 different brands of Irish Pint bottles and push them with an Irish Craft beer tasting night,if I get some regulars interested il get a tap in,i havnt tasted Galway Hooker but I think the name is genious,that Curim is really nice also!,any other suggestions?,id obviously like to get the nicest most popular brands in first to set the thing alight!

I wasnt aware that so many breweries were producing there own Irish beer,really looking forward to launching this. It should be the future!!

BeerNut

I'd recommend including Trouble's Dark Arts Porter and Whitewater's Clotworthy Dobbin in any Irish beer tasting as well.

Berty

BeerNut wrote: »

I don't think bottles can ever be a proper substitution for draught beer in the pub.

Yes I agree completely but it is a safe, quick and inexpensive way to get into the swing of things without expensive and time consuming installation of products on draught that may or may not work.

Often I suggest to people before going for a keg of something to see how they got on with bottles. If you throw in a keg and only sell 10-20 pints per week then the line is not as active as it should be and it affects quality. Bottles on the other hand is a way of testing the water before diving right in.

BeerNut

The converse argument is that pub pricing of bottled beer is usually crazy. More money for less beer, almost always. Bottle sales won't test the viability of draught unless they're about the same price as draught would be, and as visible to the punter at the bar, of course. If you have to tippy-toe to peer into a fridge while a barman looks on impatiently, fuggedaboudit. Only weirdos like me actually do that.

ronanmc1987

BeerNut wrote: »

The converse argument is that pub pricing of bottled beer is usually crazy. More money for less beer, almost always. Bottle sales won't test the viability of draught unless they're about the same price as draught would be, and as visible to the punter at the bar, of course. If you have to tippy-toe to peer into a fridge while a barman looks on impatiently, fuggedaboudit. Only weirdos like me actually do that.

How much does say clothworthy dobbin retail at?,in both draught and bottles?,I completely understand what you are saying but have you any other suggestions how I would introduce Irish beer into my pub?

BeerNut

ronanmc1987 wrote: »

How much does say clothworthy dobbin retail at?,in both draught and bottles?

It's about €2.50 - €3 in an off licence. In a pub it would be about €5.50. A pint of draught ale in the same pub would be under €5. Clotworthy Dobbin itself rarely appears on draught down here. I think the Porterhouse have had it a couple of times.

I don't think there's any harm at all in having bottles in your pub but they should be priced the same as draught beer measure-for-measure, and they should be as visible to customers as the draught offerings.

ronanmc1987

BeerNut wrote: »

It's about €2.50 - €3 in an off licence. In a pub it would be about €5.50. A pint of draught ale in the same pub would be under €5.

Here lies my problem,i sell pints @ €3.80 and pint bottles of cider €4.50 so i would have to keep the prices in line with what I already have,if only I could get away with charging €5.50,thats ludicrous for a pint bottle!

Anyone any ideas on how to run a cost effective tasting night?

Iv been quoted around €2.20-€2.40 for pint bottles of craft beer,id nearly be better off buying them in my local tescos!...save the hassle of delivery!

I hate supermarkets! :mad:

BeerNut

ronanmc1987 wrote: »

if only I could get away with charging €5.50,thats ludicrous for a pint bottle!

That's Dublin! I bet you're glad you don't pay the overheads Dublin pubs do

But I hope you can see my point: for the customer who normally drinks a pint of Guinness for €3.80, a €4.50 bottle is not a substitution if the €3.80 pint is no longer available. He'll drink somewhere else. He might stay for a bottle at €3.80, though.

ronanmc1987

BeerNut wrote: »

That's Dublin! I bet you're glad you don't pay the overheads Dublin pubs do

But I hope you can see my point: for the customer who normally drinks a pint of Guinness for €3.80, a €4.50 bottle is not a substitution if the €3.80 pint is no longer available. He'll drink somewhere else. He might stay for a bottle at €3.80, though.

I wouldnt mind the footfall dublin pubs have tho!!,rates are extortionate everywhere!

Yes i see your point,but to charge €3.80 a pint bottle is cutting it fine,my goodness my guinness is €3.60 as well!...gonna have to do some serious number crunching!

Recon

Have you had any dealing with Heineken?

ronanmc1987

Recon wrote: »

Have you had any dealing with Heineken?

Yes we sell Heineken draught,been looking for a contact email to get a complete stocklist?..why do u ask?

Recon

ronanmc1987 wrote: »

Yes we sell Heineken draught,been looking for a contact email to get a complete stocklist?..why do u ask?

Just curious. I've always found them to be a lot nicer to deal with than diageo.

eurokev

you could try getting beamish (through heineken) to rival guinness. Sales of it have skyrocketed all over the country over the last few years because its about 50c cheaper per pint. And heineken are much easier to deal with I found

Martyn1989

It'd be worth asking your Heineken rep what he could do for you if you where only taking his products, I've seen bars do this in Dublin, they'll probably organise something for you.

While its nice to think craft beer is the answer for every pub its really not the case, be sure to do some test marketing before cutting off ties with anyone. Remember that craft beer will involve some sales initiatative for you and your staff as the majority of people who walk through your door may not have heard of a craft beer or be aware that there are microbreweries around. If done correctly it can be a huge draw for your pub.

I have heard of Dublin city centre bars inquiring about stocking craft beer and seemed to get responses, but as their main market its no extra hassle for them to deliver a few cases to another city centre pub.

The best of luck with it!

tippguy

As a one outlet operation your going to pay through the roof for stock direct from the likes of diageo (with the exception of kegs)...best bet is to find a beer wholsaler in the area...i know theres a crowd around longford or a good one in donegal who should service you...failing that musgraves in galway will be willing to do business with you and will carry a good range at keen prices

emco

ronanmc1987 wrote: »

Thanks so much for that full listing beernut....very helpful!,Im based in Cavan which unfortunately means the irish breweries have little interest going by their lack of response.

Dissapointing that some Irish breweries aren't showing much interest but I suppose they have limited resources. The bigger Irish craft breweries like O'Hara's and Galway Hooker should be able to accommodate you. If you are collecting yourself Inishmacsaint is in Fermanagh could be a short drive, but dont know importing/tax issues with that. Porterhouse brewery is in Blanch so on the Cavan road too. Best of luck and keep us updated!