"branded" dental clinic vs my local dentist

btkm8unsl0w5r4

in all fairness cojomo that could have happened anywhere and has nothing to do with it being a chain or not. People who change dentist more often end up with more dental work and the new dentist does not trust your mouth as they have only seen it once. Yes this is well show in the research, and is due to diagnostic differences between dentists. If you have a good dentist stick with them, where ever they work.

Can people stop comparing this to boots, boot sell premade products. You rent a dentist you dont buy items of treatment, the filling from one dentist is not the same as a filling from another. Boots interestingly had a chain in the UK of dental practices, closed down, economies of scale dont work as well in dentistry as you would think, and lowest bidder purchasing causes long term issues.

cojomo2

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

in all fairness cojomo that could have happened anywhere and has nothing to do with it being a chain or not. People who change dentist more often end up with more dental work and the new dentist does not trust your mouth as they have only seen it once. Yes this is well show in the research, and is due to diagnostic differences between dentists. If you have a good dentist stick with them, where ever they work.
.

That's fair enough, I'm no expert but surely it's not a good idea to tell a patient they need a number of fillings for teeth that do not have any cavities, but may (or may not) develop them soon.

Also, being told I needed a filling replaced (that was only put in 2 weeks previous-but they did not know this) is fine if there is an issue with the filling, which they had me convinced there was after telling me they would provide me with a photo/explanation of the defect- however despite me hounding them it doesn't look like I will get this, which makes me suspicious if there is in fact anything wrong with it.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

cant really tell on the forum, but dentists have differing opinions on when there is decay or not and at what point intervention is needed. Dental diagnosis is not black and white.

candyflossgirl

My original dilemma seems to have sparked off somewhat of an interesting debate, which has helped me answer the question for myself. The truth is that I have had awful experiences with dentist work in the past as well as amazing experiences and have only ever been to local practices.

The best dentist our family had was an ancient old geezer who whipped out two of my wisdom teeth one afternoon (at what I though would be a routine check-up) without so much as an X-ray or anything, he just had decades of experience and it really showed in his skill-this probably wouldn't be considered best practice now I guess but his kindness and gentleness has perhaps weirdly made me very nervous of other dentists, and I have had three or four dentists that I haven't been happy with before finding this woman who is great.

So, on balance, I will be sticking with her, I know she will do a good job, she is respectful of the fact that I am a nervous patient without patronising me and that helps a lot.

No disrespect intended at all to dental professionals employed in chain stores. In my own profession there is a similar divide, although it's between private and public sector provision rather than local practice vs branded practices. What seems to happen in my profession is that those working in the private sector are equally well qualified (sometimes better to be honest) but often simply less experienced than those in the public sector, and are much more willing to toe the corporate line. Graduates often take posts in the private sector to "cut their teeth" in the profession and then they move on to the public sector work, which is generally better paid and has better working conditions, but much harder to get into.
What worried me about my dilemma was the possible impact a profit-making focus of a branded company has on a professional's practice and I completely disregarded what was the real issue for, which is about a positive dental experience and being satisfied with the work that the dentist does and part of that satisfaction derives from the professional relationship with the dentist and her assistants. Like I said initially, I cannot fault my dentist, she is excellent and that has to be worth the financial sacrifice.

Someone asked above if there were fractures to the teeth, and yes, one is badly fractured, so the work on that one is urgent but the two teeth are adjacent and the dentist said the best job would be to get both done together. There is the possibility to get the bad tooth done first and the other one down the line, not the ideal way to do it but I could work out the finances better that way.

Thanks to all for the interesting points made!

Big_G

yobr wrote: »

I think it is important posters looks for advice that we are careful about what they are told as that might inform their decisions. It is also important that they recognise that some dentists who give advice in this forum have a vested interest in supporting one type of practice over another.

Therefore, given this vested interest and some of the remarks which have been made it is important to question whether any actual evidence exists, and is being quoted, to support the remarks which are being made. In this case, there is no evidence to suggest that in Ireland that quality in dental chains is lower than with an independent dentist. Also, as some have suggested here, there is no guarantee that paying a higher price will guarantee better treatment. When advising potential patients I think its important to question whether evidence exists to support the views which are being expressed.

Burden of Proof

I love that website. While agree with your questions regarding backing up of statements with evidence, I said that that evidence doesn't exist. However, just because we can't produce the evidence doesn't invalidate the statement. Equally, you cannot provide evidence against so the thing is moot.

I have no vested interest. I can only provide anecdotal (which I know is weak) evidence to back up my statements. You may be able to provide same, although I doubt it.

I have seen in this thread people who really are frightened or very skeptical about what dentists do mostly because they just don't understand it. If I was in Ireland still I would love to have yobr or any others come and shadow me for an hour, a day, a week and open up the books to him/her so to speak. Maybe one of the Irish dentists here should offer that.

Most dentists are genuine. If you find one you like and who explains things well to you stick with them.

Dianthus

Over recent years, our practice has had numerous transition year students "shadow" us. They have a genuine interest in the profession.
Equally, for any parents, there is an open-door policy with regards to their children (I shudder to add that this includes the wives/mothers of some guys from their their 30's-50's....but that's another story altogether, involving apron strings!)
Long story short, I don't believe we should have to "prove" ourselves as being altruistic- bearing in mind this is also our profession. Our attitude& work towards our patients should speak for itself, and a lot of patients choose their dentist based on the advise of friends/family as opposed to a randomer on the internet.
If someone chooses to be suspicious, begrudging, or downright hostile towards dentists, then that particular monkey can stay on their shoulder.

Chuck Stone

Big_G wrote: »

While agree with your questions regarding backing up of statements with evidence, I said that that evidence doesn't exist.

If evidence doesn't exist then people who make claims on the efficacy of branded clinics versus individual ones, one country over another, or ROI versus the entire planet need to be challenged.

yobr

Big_G wrote: »

I love that website. While agree with your questions regarding backing up of statements with evidence, I said that that evidence doesn't exist. However, just because we can't produce the evidence doesn't invalidate the statement. Equally, you cannot provide evidence against so the thing is moot.

I have no vested interest. I can only provide anecdotal (which I know is weak) evidence to back up my statements. You may be able to provide same, although I doubt it.

I have seen in this thread people who really are frightened or very skeptical about what dentists do mostly because they just don't understand it.

This is a discussion forum and we give opinions, points of view and can challenge others statements, etc. In my opinion, where we can back up opinion or statement with facts/evidence, the better is it for all. I don't agree with you point that the inability to produce evidence does not invalidate the statement and its best to leave it at that.

Dianthus wrote: »

If someone chooses to be suspicious, begrudging, or downright hostile towards dentists then that particular monkey can stay on their shoulder.

These comments come as no surprise. I have seen in equal measure on the DI forum where dentists have adopted the exact approach to that which you accuse certain posters of, usually towards the end of a thread just as you have demonstrated. While I appreciate that certain dental practises have tried to masquerade as ordinary posters, there appears to a certain hostility towards those to might offer a contrary point of view to the mainstream view.

Indeed, as evidence of this, I was recently publicly accused on this forum of having multiple accounts, a charge which a category moderator investigated and proved to be false. The apology which I was promised is still outstanding. Such actions do not to increase any hope of mutual understanding. While I apologise for possibly dragging the thread off topic, I felt it is necessary to respond.

christmas2012

stick with your local if you are familiar with him comfortable around him/her stick with what ya know..
my local only charges a very low fee none of this thousands nonsense like i got off some dentists..

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Seriously, the next poster to give out about the way the dental issue forum is run or the rules will take a permeant holiday from the forum.

YOBR there is nothing that can be said that changes your mind. We post evidence and its too weak, we post no evidence and you want to know where it is. You offer no evidence for your views and we no nothing of your experience. Anything we say that goes against your suspicions that dentists are somehow evil and manipulative it picked to death by you and you link to journals, competition authority reports and dental council guidelines that no normal person should be reading. You have stated that you have met both previous dental council registrars so its about time you told us your agenda and why you are so interested in this topic but stay out of any thread that is actually about a dental issues rather than a consumer issue.

This forum is not for consumer issues or the nut jobs that topic attracts.

yobr

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

You offer no evidence for your views and we no nothing of your experience. Anything we say that goes against your suspicions that dentists are somehow evil and manipulative it picked to death by you and you link to journals, competition authority reports and dental council guidelines that no normal person should be reading.

Fitzgeme, I find your comments slightly hysterical. I've never said dentists are evil or manipulative so to say that or draw that conclusion is completely over the top. I have posted evidence to back up my statements and while you have acknowledged that, you equally state that I offer no evidence, a statement which is completely contradictory.

To label those who have an interest in dental consumer issues as "nut jobs" shows a clear contempt for the issue and those who have an interest in it. Also, as I am sure you are very aware, such a statement it is also potentially libelous.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Please tell us why you are so interested in this topic and scan the DI forum for threads upon which to grind your axe? I am tired of this trolling now and want some answers. Its important for those who are not as familiar with your post history on the forum as I am to temper your ire with understanding of who you are and why your so angry.

Dr Turk Turkelton

@op to save money on expensive dental work in future:

Stop eating candy floss!

Dianthus

I was referring to a suggestion that you attend a dental surgery for a week,to observe the ins&outs of what actually goes on in a dental surgery. I'm not really bothered what you post/debate about on boards,work away (mods notwithstanding!). The point was,for regular patients of the practice,having someone observe who a)has no interest in dentistry as a career, b)is not a friend/relative, c) is prone to making remarks such as "potentially libelous" in the context of a forum where there is complete anonymity(unless yobr is a christian name/celeb that we all know of?)........I can't see that it's fair or right to impose on regular patients,&have their space invaded like that. Fine on a forum,not when you're paying a dentist to have to listen to debates& justifying this that& the other.

Oral Surgeon

yobr wrote: »

To label those who have an interest in dental consumer issues as "nut jobs" shows a clear contempt for the issue and those who have an interest in it. Also, as I am sure you are very aware, such a statement it is also potentially libelous.

Take him to the Dental complaint Resolution service Yobr
http://www.dentalcomplaints.ie/

yobr

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

Please tell us why you are so interested in this topic and scan the DI forum for threads upon which to grind your axe? I am tired of this trolling now and want some answers.

I've answered all of these questions before on other DI threads and don't intend to go there again. I don't troll and as you have suggested earlier, I provide evidence to back up my posts. If you want to discuss this any further you can pm me.

Dianthus wrote: »

I was referring to a suggestion that you attend a dental surgery for a week,to observe the ins&outs of what actually goes on in a dental surgery. I'm not really bothered what you post/debate about on boards,work away (mods notwithstanding!).

Thanks for the offer but I have done this already so know the ins and outs.

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Take him to the Dental complaint Resolution service Yobr
http://www.dentalcomplaints.ie/

Thanks for the (tongue in cheek) suggestion but I don't think it will come to that.

I'm gonna sign off now...enjoy the sunshine over weekend.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

yobr wrote: »

To label those who have an interest in dental consumer issues as "nut jobs" shows a clear contempt for the issue and those who have an interest in it. Also, as I am sure you are very aware, such a statement it is also potentially libelous.

That statement shows how you interpret anything a dentist says as being a personal attack on you. I find your comments that the dentists on here and other threads (ney the profession as a whole) are liars to be libelous if that's the childish games you want to play.

Infact you have actually proved on the dispute resolution thread that your suspicions about the dental profession blind to to views and initiatives that will actually save patients money.I find your views akin to Sinn Feins political policies, populist myopic, retoric without any notion of the reality of the issues, technical factors or holistic view of the problems, and the ability to spout these ill informed opinions from the safety of knowing you are not accountable for the damage and misinformation your view bring into the public arena. You use the fact that the professionals on here are accountable and have ethics as a weapon with which to beat us over the head and presented this as evidence paraphrased to suit your agenda. Each time one of your points is shot down you move to another.

The fact that you seem to be involved of have contact with the dental council and also that you admit to having some experiance in a dental surgery would suggest you should now allow people to temper your view with knowledge of what your involvement in this area is. You have stated to me that you are an economist, but what's the connection with dental. I dont think you have much experience as you are so ill informed, yet you offer publically available goggle links to as evidence and dismiss dentists opinions with years of experience with thousands of patients and indepth knowledge of the working of both the business and science of dentistry as mearly spin. .

yobr

This last post is just a personal attack. I have no intention of responding.

Dianthus

yobr wrote: »

This last post is just a personal attack. I have no intention of responding.

Ah do. I'm most interested to know under what circumstances you've had the opportunity to spend a full week in a dental practice observing the ins&outs of its' running. Curious& curiouser....

digzy

yobr wrote: »

This last post is just a personal attack. I have no intention of responding.

jesus thank fcuk....
if ever a thread went away from the op:rolleyes:

Oral Surgeon

yobr wrote: »

This last post is just a personal attack. I have no intention of responding.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

yobr wrote: »

This last post is just a personal attack. I have no intention of responding.

Ah go on, I am aching to know your opinions which you so liberally have spread like dung around the forum up to this point.