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"branded" dental clinic vs my local dentist

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  • 09-05-2012 8:51pm
    #1
    candyflossgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭


    Hi, apologies if this is a repeat question, I couldn't find it anywhere recent.

    Can anyone offer any informed opinions about the quality of service at branded / chain dental clinics that are appearing around the country vs my local dental practice? My local dentist is excellent, I've never had a problem with her, and would ordinarily recommend her to friends etc. but I need two crowns, and the prices in the branded clinic are just too good to pass up, I could save between 400 and 800 euro depending on the exact treatment needed.

    Anyway, I am having a bit of a moral dilemma because I usually prefer to support local business, but my local dentist says she can't do me any better price; the branded clinic where I enquired about my treatment told me that they are able to be more competitive because they have more than a dozen stores nationwide and can spread costs over a wider base (or something). Am I right in presuming that the dental care will be every bit as professional at the branded clinic?

    Thanks


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    #2
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Shouldn't be any different really. All dentists have to sit the same exams and they're all members of the dental council.


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    #3
    candyflossgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭candyflossgirl


    yes that's true of course, I guess I am not used to that branded healthcare thing, it makes me a bit nervous!


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    #4
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    There's nothing that bad about branded healthcare. You wouldn't be wary of Boots or Unicare, would you?


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    #5
    TheBody
    Registered Users Posts: 5,621 ✭✭✭TheBody


    candyflossgirl wrote: »
    yes that's true of course, I guess I am not used to that branded healthcare thing, it makes me a bit nervous!

    Yea, I can see where you are coming from. I would try and see if i could find anybody who has had dental work done in the clinic you are talking about and see how they got on. However, I guess if you can afford your regular dentist and you know the standard of work she does that means a hell of a lot in my book.


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    #6
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    It's all about the dentist that does the work and their experience and skil. Boots sell premade products it's doesn't matter who the shop assistant is. There is vast differences in the quality of dental work in every country. If you have a good dentist stick with them. Cheap dental work is generally not the bargain you think.


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    #7
    candyflossgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭candyflossgirl


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    There's nothing that bad about branded healthcare. You wouldn't be wary of Boots or Unicare, would you?

    Ah you see that's the thing, I usually prefer the local pharmacy too, I trust the personal touch rather than the corporate image!


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    #8
    candyflossgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭candyflossgirl


    TheBody wrote: »
    Yea, I can see where you are coming from. I would try and see if i could find anybody who has had dental work done in the clinic you are talking about and see how they got on. However, I guess if you can afford your regular dentist and you know the standard of work she does that means a hell of a lot in my book.

    This is the other problem, I can't afford my regular dentist. If I could, I wouldn't even be having this dilemma!


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    #9
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Shouldn't be any different really. All dentists have to sit the same exams and they're all members of the dental council.

    Are all carpenters/ plumbers/ electricians the same....??


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    #10
    TheBody
    Registered Users Posts: 5,621 ✭✭✭TheBody


    candyflossgirl wrote: »
    This is the other problem, I can't afford my regular dentist. If I could, I wouldn't even be having this dilemma!

    As I suggested earlier, do you know anybody that has had work done in this bigger clinic? I bet if you made some inquiries you would find somebody.


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    #11
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,132 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    candyflossgirl wrote: »
    This is the other problem, I can't afford my regular dentist. If I could, I wouldn't even be having this dilemma!

    Some local dentist will let you pay in parts or give you time to pay if you need some time to get the funds together. Tell the receptionists your situation. If you live close to them they should help you out as you will probably be a life long customer.


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    #12
    candyflossgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭candyflossgirl


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    Are all carpenters/ plumbers/ electricians the same....??

    good point!


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    #13
    candyflossgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭candyflossgirl


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Some local dentist will let you pay in parts or give you time to pay if you need some time to get the funds together. Tell the receptionists your situation. If you live close to them they should help you out as you will probably be a life long customer.

    I hadn't considered this as I've only had cleaning or fillings in the past and have always just paid on the day. I will ask, and that could swing it back to my local dentist for me. I think I would feel more confident going to her.


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    #14
    candyflossgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭candyflossgirl


    TheBody wrote: »
    As I suggested earlier, do you know anybody that has had work done in this bigger clinic? I bet if you made some inquiries you would find somebody.

    Good idea, I will also ask around.


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    #15
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    Are all carpenters/ plumbers/ electricians the same....??
    Well no... but screw ups in healthcare lead to death or bodily harm so you'd assume that people are of at least some certain minimum standard.


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    #16
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Well no... but screw ups in healthcare lead to death or bodily harm so you'd assume that people are of at least some certain minimum standard.

    Half of dentists graduated in the bottom half of their class's. I don't want minimum standards I want more than that.


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    #17
    candyflossgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭candyflossgirl


    Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »
    It's all about the dentist that does the work and their experience and skil. Boots sell premade products it's doesn't matter who the shop assistant is. There is vast differences in the quality of dental work in every country. If you have a good dentist stick with them. Cheap dental work is generally not the bargain you think.

    Agreed. This is what worries me about the branded clinic doing the work so much cheaper. Thanks.


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    #18
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    candyflossgirl wrote: »
    Agreed. This is what worries me about the branded clinic doing the work so much cheaper. Thanks.

    This shouldn't really be a thread against branded clinics... Rather your established and trusted dentist against someone you don't know who is offering a service cheaper but at what quality??


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    #19
    yobr
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭yobr


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    This shouldn't really be a thread against branded clinics... Rather your established and trusted dentist against someone you don't know who is offering a service cheaper but at what quality??

    I agree it should not be a thread against branded clinics but it has turned into a thread which has done exactly that. In order that we might have some factual basis to this question, I would ask the following question. Is there any actual peer reviewed evidence that the quality of dental work which is available at branded clinics in Ireland is not of an equivilent standard to dental work which is available from a smaller dental practise?


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    #20
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    yobr wrote: »
    I agree it should not be a thread against branded clinics but it has turned into a thread which has done exactly that. In order that we might have some factual basis to this question, I would ask the following question. Is there any actual peer reviewed evidence that the quality of dental work which is available at branded clinics in Ireland is not of an equivilent standard to dental work which is available from a smaller dental practise?

    No

    As stated many times in DI, you may get good or bad work with any dentist (in a chain or not) but independent dentists in their own practice tend to be more experienced and have a greater interest in building and maintaining their own name in a particular area....


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    #21
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »
    Half of dentists graduated in the bottom half of their class's. I don't want minimum standards I want more than that.
    Yeah but why would you assume branded healthcare only takes on people from the bottom of the heap? Are branded clinics/pharmacies/dental surgeries the haven of the inept and incompetent in healthcare? I wouldn't think so.


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    #22
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    yobr wrote: »
    Is there any actual peer reviewed evidence that the quality of dental work which is available at branded clinics in Ireland is not of an equivilent standard to dental work which is available from a smaller dental practise?

    Careful now. You might be called a troll for asking for actual statistical evidence.


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    #23
    yobr
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭yobr


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    As stated many times in DI, you may get good or bad work with any dentist (in a chain or not) but independent dentists in their own practice tend to be more experienced and have a greater interest in building and maintaining their own name in a particular area....

    So effectively what you are saying is that the view in this thread is based on what has previously been discussed by dentists on this forum, who I might just hazard a guess, some of whom are independent dentists running their own practices?

    I'm not trying to have a go at you but the fact is that there is only anecdotal evidence which supports the view which is being given to the OP by those who might not necessarilily be seen as having an independent viewpoint.


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    #24
    Dianthus
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 933 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dianthus


    Is there any huge urgency in having the crowns asap? Have the teeth been root canal treated/has there been large fractures or breakages in the teeth of late?


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    #25
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    yobr wrote: »
    So effectively what you are saying is that the view in this thread is based on what has previously been discussed by dentists on this forum, who I might just hazard a guess, some of whom are independent dentists running their own practices?

    I'm not trying to have a go at you but the fact is that there is only anecdotal evidence which supports the view which is being given to the OP by those who might not necessarilily be seen as having an independent viewpoint.

    Some dentist are and some here work in chains......


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    #26
    Big_G
    Moderators Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Big_G


    yobr wrote: »
    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    As stated many times in DI, you may get good or bad work with any dentist (in a chain or not) but independent dentists in their own practice tend to be more experienced and have a greater interest in building and maintaining their own name in a particular area....

    So effectively what you are saying is that the view in this thread is based on what has previously been discussed by dentists on this forum, who I might just hazard a guess, some of whom are independent dentists running their own practices?

    I'm not trying to have a go at you but the fact is that there is only anecdotal evidence which supports the view which is being given to the OP by those who might not necessarilily be seen as having an independent viewpoint.

    Dental chains create a profit margin by paying dentists and staff less and also by applying certain economies of scale. I know this because I work for a branded clinic in Australia. Also it is an absolutely silly question to ask for peer reviewed evidence regarding relative quality. If you are educated enough to ask the question, you should be smart enough to know that no company is going to allow that data to get into the public domain because even if the data is favourable, it puts the question into people's minds. Also, the only study that a company would allow is one whose results can be controlled. Need I say more?

    Taking a lower commission of lower prices and being under pressure to meet production targets? Hardly a recipe for quality.

    I am still able to produce quality in Australia because prices are still reasonably high and I refuse to allow middle or upper management to even discuss production numbers. If I had the choice, I would definitely prefer to work in an independent practice for a multitude of reasons.

    Obviously based on what I have said you can infer that I am not tarring all dentists who work in branded clinics with the same brush.


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    #27
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »
    Half of dentists graduated in the bottom half of their class's. I don't want minimum standards I want more than that.

    i'm confused by this fitz. are you saying that those that just passed their finals end up in chains while everyone that got honours goes to set up in their own place straight away??
    you know at the moment that a certain branded clinic are buying out a fair few practices and that a job is a job.
    plus, finals are a measurement at a certain stage. the person who barely passed could easily end up being a cracking dentist.

    OP, the only drawback i would have about a chain is not getting to see the same dentist all the time, so it may be tricky to build up a rapport with someone.


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    #28
    yobr
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭yobr


    Big_G wrote: »
    Also it is an absolutely silly question to ask for peer reviewed evidence regarding relative quality. If you are educated enough to ask the question, you should be smart enough to know that no company is going to allow that data to get into the public domain because even if the data is favourable, it puts the question into people's minds. Also, the only study that a company would allow is one whose results can be controlled. Need I say more?

    I think it is important when posters looks for advice that we are careful about what they are told as that might inform their decisions. It is also important that they recognise that some dentists who give advice in this forum have a vested interest in supporting one type of practice over another.

    Therefore, given this vested interest and some of the remarks which have been made it is important to question whether any actual evidence exists, and is being quoted, to support the remarks which are being made. In this case, there is no evidence to suggest that in Ireland that quality in dental chains is lower than with an independent dentist. Also, as some have suggested here, there is no guarantee that paying a higher price will guarantee better treatment. When advising potential patients I think its important to question whether evidence exists to support the views which are being expressed.


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    #29
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    i'm confused by this fitz. are you saying that those that just passed their finals end up in chains while everyone that got honours goes to set up in their own place straight away??
    you know at the moment that a certain branded clinic are buying out a fair few practices and that a job is a job.
    plus, finals are a measurement at a certain stage. the person who barely passed could easily end up being a cracking dentist.

    OP, the only drawback i would have about a chain is not getting to see the same dentist all the time, so it may be tricky to build up a rapport with someone.

    No Ballys I was begin glib (and attended no offence to anyone BTW, its a common saying in medicine) as I could see where this thread will go. I think that there are good and bad dentist working in chains just like there are good and bad in other practices. I do have issues with crown and bridge work being so cheap as, as big_g pointed out chains generate profit by employing dentists and staff at lower rates and by cutting costs especially with lab work. Some of the best dentists I know failed their finals so really thats not a measure of anything but having passed your dental exams was held as a measure of quality which we all know is not the case. It would also be fair to say that chains get mostly patients who are symptomatic attenders rather than regular patients.

    The most important factor in dental treatment is the dentists ability, willingness, time and freedom to provide good dental work. I would be very reluctant to leave a good dentist in order to save some money in the short term. If a small practice was offering advanced dental work for this ammount I would have reservations also. My only interest is that people get quality treatment, poor quality is the rip off not high price.


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    #30
    crazyFeet
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭crazyFeet


    Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »
    Half of dentists graduated in the bottom half of their class's. I don't want minimum standards I want more than that.

    Well, that half of dentist can always be them local once you get that charge more than chain company's. As you said in other post the lab costs where you get your crowns done etc costs alone the same money as some chain company's charge for crowns, but would that not be because of the amount of crowns they produce? Bigger turnaround the cheaper expense?

    In my opinion it is worth trying it, my mum and all our family always go to the local dentist for check ups etc, but if it is some serious work we go abroad, its up to 10 times cheaper and I can stand by the quality as no members of our family ever had a problem. Now the local dentists are good, but they cannot compete with the point above - cheaper expense. Say how much is local dentists expense on secretary alone? Corporative - one for 10 - 15 dentists?

    P.S Local pharmacies are nice and friendly, but I find stuff in Boots twice cheaper 90% of the time than in local pharmacies, the reason - bulk orders and centralized system. As for a local touch, for that cost they can keep it, i'll touch myself for free!


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    #31
    cojomo2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭cojomo2


    OP, I have had recent experience with these dental chains, 2 of them. My opinion is that some of them are there to fleece you blind , even if it means giving you fillings etc. that you don't need.

    My last visit to my local dentist was about a year ago, at which point I needed 2 fillings. Recently, my crown fell out after serving me 15 odd years so I went to a chain group. After an x-ray and a check up, I was told no root canal necessary, and that I needed 4 fillings. I got the bigger cavities filled and the dentist told me there was no rush on the other 2, and quoted me for the crown.

    In the mean time, a different chain group gave me a good price for the crown. I went in for a check up(having being told by the dentist at the previous chain group 2 weeks previous that all I needed was a crown-no root canal, and 2 fillings). The dentist had a quick look around my mouth, no x-ray, and then proceeded to tell me I needed 10 fillings, crown and root canal. One of these fillings was to replace an 'old' one that was in fact one of the fillings I had done 2 weeks previous.

    To say I was angry was an under statement. I went home in shock, then rang back to complain, and demanded an explanation. I was invited back to speak with an Irish dentist who I think was in charge. A very nice guy, and he inspected my teeth again and told me that the bulk of these fillings (8 I think) were not actual cavities, but that de-mineralisation had began- showing me on camera that the centre of some of the teeth were no longer pearly white, but dull/darker looking. He said that it's a matter of opinion and some dentists would want to drill/fill them and others would just keep an eye on them. I asked him if I looked after theses 8 teeth meticulously would it be possible cavities would never occur, to which he admitted yes.

    He then inspected where my crown fell out and still assured me that in all likelyhood I'd need root canal, to which I pointed out that no x-rays were taken, and that my previous dentist had said no root canal necessary(x-rays taken). He then came to the conclusion that indeed I may be correct and that the roots may have hardened or something- not sure what he was saying. Regarding the filling that needed to be replaced (one that was only put in 2 weeks previous) he showed me on camera(didn't really know what I was looking at) that it was done badly, and that there was still a 'shadow' at the side of the filling meaning that all the decay was not drilled away. I told him I would be going back to my other dentist about this and he agreed and said he would email me the picture with an explanation to give to the dentist. I never got this email despite me ringing 5 times and it being sent to me 5 times-I never got it and am still trying to get it.

    On the bright side, I had committed to getting the crown done in this place and I asked for a new dentist (didn't trust the one that wanted to drill out 10 of my teeth). I got a lady that was very professional, made me feel at ease and from what I can tell, did a great job (with no root canal!).

    Just goes to show though, you have to have your wits about you when going to some of these places, they are obviously on some kind of commission and their first objective may be to get as much cash out of you as possible.

    I'm sure they are not all bad though, just be careful.


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