"branded" dental clinic vs my local dentist

candyflossgirl

Hi, apologies if this is a repeat question, I couldn't find it anywhere recent.

Can anyone offer any informed opinions about the quality of service at branded / chain dental clinics that are appearing around the country vs my local dental practice? My local dentist is excellent, I've never had a problem with her, and would ordinarily recommend her to friends etc. but I need two crowns, and the prices in the branded clinic are just too good to pass up, I could save between 400 and 800 euro depending on the exact treatment needed.

Anyway, I am having a bit of a moral dilemma because I usually prefer to support local business, but my local dentist says she can't do me any better price; the branded clinic where I enquired about my treatment told me that they are able to be more competitive because they have more than a dozen stores nationwide and can spread costs over a wider base (or something). Am I right in presuming that the dental care will be every bit as professional at the branded clinic?

Thanks

partyatmygaff

Shouldn't be any different really. All dentists have to sit the same exams and they're all members of the dental council.

candyflossgirl

yes that's true of course, I guess I am not used to that branded healthcare thing, it makes me a bit nervous!

partyatmygaff

There's nothing that bad about branded healthcare. You wouldn't be wary of Boots or Unicare, would you?

TheBody

candyflossgirl wrote: »

yes that's true of course, I guess I am not used to that branded healthcare thing, it makes me a bit nervous!

Yea, I can see where you are coming from. I would try and see if i could find anybody who has had dental work done in the clinic you are talking about and see how they got on. However, I guess if you can afford your regular dentist and you know the standard of work she does that means a hell of a lot in my book.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

It's all about the dentist that does the work and their experience and skil. Boots sell premade products it's doesn't matter who the shop assistant is. There is vast differences in the quality of dental work in every country. If you have a good dentist stick with them. Cheap dental work is generally not the bargain you think.

candyflossgirl

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There's nothing that bad about branded healthcare. You wouldn't be wary of Boots or Unicare, would you?

Ah you see that's the thing, I usually prefer the local pharmacy too, I trust the personal touch rather than the corporate image!

candyflossgirl

TheBody wrote: »

Yea, I can see where you are coming from. I would try and see if i could find anybody who has had dental work done in the clinic you are talking about and see how they got on. However, I guess if you can afford your regular dentist and you know the standard of work she does that means a hell of a lot in my book.

This is the other problem, I can't afford my regular dentist. If I could, I wouldn't even be having this dilemma!

Oral Surgeon

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Shouldn't be any different really. All dentists have to sit the same exams and they're all members of the dental council.

Are all carpenters/ plumbers/ electricians the same....??

TheBody

candyflossgirl wrote: »

This is the other problem, I can't afford my regular dentist. If I could, I wouldn't even be having this dilemma!

As I suggested earlier, do you know anybody that has had work done in this bigger clinic? I bet if you made some inquiries you would find somebody.

drunkmonkey

candyflossgirl wrote: »

This is the other problem, I can't afford my regular dentist. If I could, I wouldn't even be having this dilemma!

Some local dentist will let you pay in parts or give you time to pay if you need some time to get the funds together. Tell the receptionists your situation. If you live close to them they should help you out as you will probably be a life long customer.

candyflossgirl

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Are all carpenters/ plumbers/ electricians the same....??

good point!

candyflossgirl

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Some local dentist will let you pay in parts or give you time to pay if you need some time to get the funds together. Tell the receptionists your situation. If you live close to them they should help you out as you will probably be a life long customer.

I hadn't considered this as I've only had cleaning or fillings in the past and have always just paid on the day. I will ask, and that could swing it back to my local dentist for me. I think I would feel more confident going to her.

candyflossgirl

TheBody wrote: »

As I suggested earlier, do you know anybody that has had work done in this bigger clinic? I bet if you made some inquiries you would find somebody.

Good idea, I will also ask around.

partyatmygaff

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Are all carpenters/ plumbers/ electricians the same....??

Well no... but screw ups in healthcare lead to death or bodily harm so you'd assume that people are of at least some certain minimum standard.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Well no... but screw ups in healthcare lead to death or bodily harm so you'd assume that people are of at least some certain minimum standard.

Half of dentists graduated in the bottom half of their class's. I don't want minimum standards I want more than that.

candyflossgirl

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

It's all about the dentist that does the work and their experience and skil. Boots sell premade products it's doesn't matter who the shop assistant is. There is vast differences in the quality of dental work in every country. If you have a good dentist stick with them. Cheap dental work is generally not the bargain you think.

Agreed. This is what worries me about the branded clinic doing the work so much cheaper. Thanks.

Oral Surgeon

candyflossgirl wrote: »

Agreed. This is what worries me about the branded clinic doing the work so much cheaper. Thanks.

This shouldn't really be a thread against branded clinics... Rather your established and trusted dentist against someone you don't know who is offering a service cheaper but at what quality??

yobr

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

This shouldn't really be a thread against branded clinics... Rather your established and trusted dentist against someone you don't know who is offering a service cheaper but at what quality??

I agree it should not be a thread against branded clinics but it has turned into a thread which has done exactly that. In order that we might have some factual basis to this question, I would ask the following question. Is there any actual peer reviewed evidence that the quality of dental work which is available at branded clinics in Ireland is not of an equivilent standard to dental work which is available from a smaller dental practise?

Oral Surgeon

yobr wrote: »

I agree it should not be a thread against branded clinics but it has turned into a thread which has done exactly that. In order that we might have some factual basis to this question, I would ask the following question. Is there any actual peer reviewed evidence that the quality of dental work which is available at branded clinics in Ireland is not of an equivilent standard to dental work which is available from a smaller dental practise?

No

As stated many times in DI, you may get good or bad work with any dentist (in a chain or not) but independent dentists in their own practice tend to be more experienced and have a greater interest in building and maintaining their own name in a particular area....

partyatmygaff

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

Half of dentists graduated in the bottom half of their class's. I don't want minimum standards I want more than that.

Yeah but why would you assume branded healthcare only takes on people from the bottom of the heap? Are branded clinics/pharmacies/dental surgeries the haven of the inept and incompetent in healthcare? I wouldn't think so.

Chuck Stone

yobr wrote: »

Is there any actual peer reviewed evidence that the quality of dental work which is available at branded clinics in Ireland is not of an equivilent standard to dental work which is available from a smaller dental practise?

Careful now. You might be called a troll for asking for actual statistical evidence.

yobr

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

As stated many times in DI, you may get good or bad work with any dentist (in a chain or not) but independent dentists in their own practice tend to be more experienced and have a greater interest in building and maintaining their own name in a particular area....

So effectively what you are saying is that the view in this thread is based on what has previously been discussed by dentists on this forum, who I might just hazard a guess, some of whom are independent dentists running their own practices?

I'm not trying to have a go at you but the fact is that there is only anecdotal evidence which supports the view which is being given to the OP by those who might not necessarilily be seen as having an independent viewpoint.

Dianthus

Is there any huge urgency in having the crowns asap? Have the teeth been root canal treated/has there been large fractures or breakages in the teeth of late?

Oral Surgeon

yobr wrote: »

So effectively what you are saying is that the view in this thread is based on what has previously been discussed by dentists on this forum, who I might just hazard a guess, some of whom are independent dentists running their own practices?

I'm not trying to have a go at you but the fact is that there is only anecdotal evidence which supports the view which is being given to the OP by those who might not necessarilily be seen as having an independent viewpoint.

Some dentist are and some here work in chains......

Big_G

yobr wrote: »

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

As stated many times in DI, you may get good or bad work with any dentist (in a chain or not) but independent dentists in their own practice tend to be more experienced and have a greater interest in building and maintaining their own name in a particular area....

So effectively what you are saying is that the view in this thread is based on what has previously been discussed by dentists on this forum, who I might just hazard a guess, some of whom are independent dentists running their own practices?

I'm not trying to have a go at you but the fact is that there is only anecdotal evidence which supports the view which is being given to the OP by those who might not necessarilily be seen as having an independent viewpoint.

Dental chains create a profit margin by paying dentists and staff less and also by applying certain economies of scale. I know this because I work for a branded clinic in Australia. Also it is an absolutely silly question to ask for peer reviewed evidence regarding relative quality. If you are educated enough to ask the question, you should be smart enough to know that no company is going to allow that data to get into the public domain because even if the data is favourable, it puts the question into people's minds. Also, the only study that a company would allow is one whose results can be controlled. Need I say more?

Taking a lower commission of lower prices and being under pressure to meet production targets? Hardly a recipe for quality.

I am still able to produce quality in Australia because prices are still reasonably high and I refuse to allow middle or upper management to even discuss production numbers. If I had the choice, I would definitely prefer to work in an independent practice for a multitude of reasons.

Obviously based on what I have said you can infer that I am not tarring all dentists who work in branded clinics with the same brush.

ballsymchugh

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

Half of dentists graduated in the bottom half of their class's. I don't want minimum standards I want more than that.

i'm confused by this fitz. are you saying that those that just passed their finals end up in chains while everyone that got honours goes to set up in their own place straight away??
you know at the moment that a certain branded clinic are buying out a fair few practices and that a job is a job.
plus, finals are a measurement at a certain stage. the person who barely passed could easily end up being a cracking dentist.

OP, the only drawback i would have about a chain is not getting to see the same dentist all the time, so it may be tricky to build up a rapport with someone.

yobr

Big_G wrote: »

Also it is an absolutely silly question to ask for peer reviewed evidence regarding relative quality. If you are educated enough to ask the question, you should be smart enough to know that no company is going to allow that data to get into the public domain because even if the data is favourable, it puts the question into people's minds. Also, the only study that a company would allow is one whose results can be controlled. Need I say more?

I think it is important when posters looks for advice that we are careful about what they are told as that might inform their decisions. It is also important that they recognise that some dentists who give advice in this forum have a vested interest in supporting one type of practice over another.

Therefore, given this vested interest and some of the remarks which have been made it is important to question whether any actual evidence exists, and is being quoted, to support the remarks which are being made. In this case, there is no evidence to suggest that in Ireland that quality in dental chains is lower than with an independent dentist. Also, as some have suggested here, there is no guarantee that paying a higher price will guarantee better treatment. When advising potential patients I think its important to question whether evidence exists to support the views which are being expressed.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i'm confused by this fitz. are you saying that those that just passed their finals end up in chains while everyone that got honours goes to set up in their own place straight away??
you know at the moment that a certain branded clinic are buying out a fair few practices and that a job is a job.
plus, finals are a measurement at a certain stage. the person who barely passed could easily end up being a cracking dentist.

OP, the only drawback i would have about a chain is not getting to see the same dentist all the time, so it may be tricky to build up a rapport with someone.

No Ballys I was begin glib (and attended no offence to anyone BTW, its a common saying in medicine) as I could see where this thread will go. I think that there are good and bad dentist working in chains just like there are good and bad in other practices. I do have issues with crown and bridge work being so cheap as, as big_g pointed out chains generate profit by employing dentists and staff at lower rates and by cutting costs especially with lab work. Some of the best dentists I know failed their finals so really thats not a measure of anything but having passed your dental exams was held as a measure of quality which we all know is not the case. It would also be fair to say that chains get mostly patients who are symptomatic attenders rather than regular patients.

The most important factor in dental treatment is the dentists ability, willingness, time and freedom to provide good dental work. I would be very reluctant to leave a good dentist in order to save some money in the short term. If a small practice was offering advanced dental work for this ammount I would have reservations also. My only interest is that people get quality treatment, poor quality is the rip off not high price.

crazyFeet

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

Half of dentists graduated in the bottom half of their class's. I don't want minimum standards I want more than that.

Well, that half of dentist can always be them local once you get that charge more than chain company's. As you said in other post the lab costs where you get your crowns done etc costs alone the same money as some chain company's charge for crowns, but would that not be because of the amount of crowns they produce? Bigger turnaround the cheaper expense?

In my opinion it is worth trying it, my mum and all our family always go to the local dentist for check ups etc, but if it is some serious work we go abroad, its up to 10 times cheaper and I can stand by the quality as no members of our family ever had a problem. Now the local dentists are good, but they cannot compete with the point above - cheaper expense. Say how much is local dentists expense on secretary alone? Corporative - one for 10 - 15 dentists?

P.S Local pharmacies are nice and friendly, but I find stuff in Boots twice cheaper 90% of the time than in local pharmacies, the reason - bulk orders and centralized system. As for a local touch, for that cost they can keep it, i'll touch myself for free!

cojomo2

OP, I have had recent experience with these dental chains, 2 of them. My opinion is that some of them are there to fleece you blind , even if it means giving you fillings etc. that you don't need.

My last visit to my local dentist was about a year ago, at which point I needed 2 fillings. Recently, my crown fell out after serving me 15 odd years so I went to a chain group. After an x-ray and a check up, I was told no root canal necessary, and that I needed 4 fillings. I got the bigger cavities filled and the dentist told me there was no rush on the other 2, and quoted me for the crown.

In the mean time, a different chain group gave me a good price for the crown. I went in for a check up(having being told by the dentist at the previous chain group 2 weeks previous that all I needed was a crown-no root canal, and 2 fillings). The dentist had a quick look around my mouth, no x-ray, and then proceeded to tell me I needed 10 fillings, crown and root canal. One of these fillings was to replace an 'old' one that was in fact one of the fillings I had done 2 weeks previous.

To say I was angry was an under statement. I went home in shock, then rang back to complain, and demanded an explanation. I was invited back to speak with an Irish dentist who I think was in charge. A very nice guy, and he inspected my teeth again and told me that the bulk of these fillings (8 I think) were not actual cavities, but that de-mineralisation had began- showing me on camera that the centre of some of the teeth were no longer pearly white, but dull/darker looking. He said that it's a matter of opinion and some dentists would want to drill/fill them and others would just keep an eye on them. I asked him if I looked after theses 8 teeth meticulously would it be possible cavities would never occur, to which he admitted yes.

He then inspected where my crown fell out and still assured me that in all likelyhood I'd need root canal, to which I pointed out that no x-rays were taken, and that my previous dentist had said no root canal necessary(x-rays taken). He then came to the conclusion that indeed I may be correct and that the roots may have hardened or something- not sure what he was saying. Regarding the filling that needed to be replaced (one that was only put in 2 weeks previous) he showed me on camera(didn't really know what I was looking at) that it was done badly, and that there was still a 'shadow' at the side of the filling meaning that all the decay was not drilled away. I told him I would be going back to my other dentist about this and he agreed and said he would email me the picture with an explanation to give to the dentist. I never got this email despite me ringing 5 times and it being sent to me 5 times-I never got it and am still trying to get it.

On the bright side, I had committed to getting the crown done in this place and I asked for a new dentist (didn't trust the one that wanted to drill out 10 of my teeth). I got a lady that was very professional, made me feel at ease and from what I can tell, did a great job (with no root canal!).

Just goes to show though, you have to have your wits about you when going to some of these places, they are obviously on some kind of commission and their first objective may be to get as much cash out of you as possible.

I'm sure they are not all bad though, just be careful.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

in all fairness cojomo that could have happened anywhere and has nothing to do with it being a chain or not. People who change dentist more often end up with more dental work and the new dentist does not trust your mouth as they have only seen it once. Yes this is well show in the research, and is due to diagnostic differences between dentists. If you have a good dentist stick with them, where ever they work.

Can people stop comparing this to boots, boot sell premade products. You rent a dentist you dont buy items of treatment, the filling from one dentist is not the same as a filling from another. Boots interestingly had a chain in the UK of dental practices, closed down, economies of scale dont work as well in dentistry as you would think, and lowest bidder purchasing causes long term issues.

cojomo2

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

in all fairness cojomo that could have happened anywhere and has nothing to do with it being a chain or not. People who change dentist more often end up with more dental work and the new dentist does not trust your mouth as they have only seen it once. Yes this is well show in the research, and is due to diagnostic differences between dentists. If you have a good dentist stick with them, where ever they work.
.

That's fair enough, I'm no expert but surely it's not a good idea to tell a patient they need a number of fillings for teeth that do not have any cavities, but may (or may not) develop them soon.

Also, being told I needed a filling replaced (that was only put in 2 weeks previous-but they did not know this) is fine if there is an issue with the filling, which they had me convinced there was after telling me they would provide me with a photo/explanation of the defect- however despite me hounding them it doesn't look like I will get this, which makes me suspicious if there is in fact anything wrong with it.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

cant really tell on the forum, but dentists have differing opinions on when there is decay or not and at what point intervention is needed. Dental diagnosis is not black and white.

candyflossgirl

My original dilemma seems to have sparked off somewhat of an interesting debate, which has helped me answer the question for myself. The truth is that I have had awful experiences with dentist work in the past as well as amazing experiences and have only ever been to local practices.

The best dentist our family had was an ancient old geezer who whipped out two of my wisdom teeth one afternoon (at what I though would be a routine check-up) without so much as an X-ray or anything, he just had decades of experience and it really showed in his skill-this probably wouldn't be considered best practice now I guess but his kindness and gentleness has perhaps weirdly made me very nervous of other dentists, and I have had three or four dentists that I haven't been happy with before finding this woman who is great.

So, on balance, I will be sticking with her, I know she will do a good job, she is respectful of the fact that I am a nervous patient without patronising me and that helps a lot.

No disrespect intended at all to dental professionals employed in chain stores. In my own profession there is a similar divide, although it's between private and public sector provision rather than local practice vs branded practices. What seems to happen in my profession is that those working in the private sector are equally well qualified (sometimes better to be honest) but often simply less experienced than those in the public sector, and are much more willing to toe the corporate line. Graduates often take posts in the private sector to "cut their teeth" in the profession and then they move on to the public sector work, which is generally better paid and has better working conditions, but much harder to get into.
What worried me about my dilemma was the possible impact a profit-making focus of a branded company has on a professional's practice and I completely disregarded what was the real issue for, which is about a positive dental experience and being satisfied with the work that the dentist does and part of that satisfaction derives from the professional relationship with the dentist and her assistants. Like I said initially, I cannot fault my dentist, she is excellent and that has to be worth the financial sacrifice.

Someone asked above if there were fractures to the teeth, and yes, one is badly fractured, so the work on that one is urgent but the two teeth are adjacent and the dentist said the best job would be to get both done together. There is the possibility to get the bad tooth done first and the other one down the line, not the ideal way to do it but I could work out the finances better that way.

Thanks to all for the interesting points made!

Big_G

yobr wrote: »

I think it is important posters looks for advice that we are careful about what they are told as that might inform their decisions. It is also important that they recognise that some dentists who give advice in this forum have a vested interest in supporting one type of practice over another.

Therefore, given this vested interest and some of the remarks which have been made it is important to question whether any actual evidence exists, and is being quoted, to support the remarks which are being made. In this case, there is no evidence to suggest that in Ireland that quality in dental chains is lower than with an independent dentist. Also, as some have suggested here, there is no guarantee that paying a higher price will guarantee better treatment. When advising potential patients I think its important to question whether evidence exists to support the views which are being expressed.

Burden of Proof

I love that website. While agree with your questions regarding backing up of statements with evidence, I said that that evidence doesn't exist. However, just because we can't produce the evidence doesn't invalidate the statement. Equally, you cannot provide evidence against so the thing is moot.

I have no vested interest. I can only provide anecdotal (which I know is weak) evidence to back up my statements. You may be able to provide same, although I doubt it.

I have seen in this thread people who really are frightened or very skeptical about what dentists do mostly because they just don't understand it. If I was in Ireland still I would love to have yobr or any others come and shadow me for an hour, a day, a week and open up the books to him/her so to speak. Maybe one of the Irish dentists here should offer that.

Most dentists are genuine. If you find one you like and who explains things well to you stick with them.

Dianthus

Over recent years, our practice has had numerous transition year students "shadow" us. They have a genuine interest in the profession.
Equally, for any parents, there is an open-door policy with regards to their children (I shudder to add that this includes the wives/mothers of some guys from their their 30's-50's....but that's another story altogether, involving apron strings!)
Long story short, I don't believe we should have to "prove" ourselves as being altruistic- bearing in mind this is also our profession. Our attitude& work towards our patients should speak for itself, and a lot of patients choose their dentist based on the advise of friends/family as opposed to a randomer on the internet.
If someone chooses to be suspicious, begrudging, or downright hostile towards dentists, then that particular monkey can stay on their shoulder.

Chuck Stone

Big_G wrote: »

While agree with your questions regarding backing up of statements with evidence, I said that that evidence doesn't exist.

If evidence doesn't exist then people who make claims on the efficacy of branded clinics versus individual ones, one country over another, or ROI versus the entire planet need to be challenged.

yobr

Big_G wrote: »

I love that website. While agree with your questions regarding backing up of statements with evidence, I said that that evidence doesn't exist. However, just because we can't produce the evidence doesn't invalidate the statement. Equally, you cannot provide evidence against so the thing is moot.

I have no vested interest. I can only provide anecdotal (which I know is weak) evidence to back up my statements. You may be able to provide same, although I doubt it.

I have seen in this thread people who really are frightened or very skeptical about what dentists do mostly because they just don't understand it.

This is a discussion forum and we give opinions, points of view and can challenge others statements, etc. In my opinion, where we can back up opinion or statement with facts/evidence, the better is it for all. I don't agree with you point that the inability to produce evidence does not invalidate the statement and its best to leave it at that.

Dianthus wrote: »

If someone chooses to be suspicious, begrudging, or downright hostile towards dentists then that particular monkey can stay on their shoulder.

These comments come as no surprise. I have seen in equal measure on the DI forum where dentists have adopted the exact approach to that which you accuse certain posters of, usually towards the end of a thread just as you have demonstrated. While I appreciate that certain dental practises have tried to masquerade as ordinary posters, there appears to a certain hostility towards those to might offer a contrary point of view to the mainstream view.

Indeed, as evidence of this, I was recently publicly accused on this forum of having multiple accounts, a charge which a category moderator investigated and proved to be false. The apology which I was promised is still outstanding. Such actions do not to increase any hope of mutual understanding. While I apologise for possibly dragging the thread off topic, I felt it is necessary to respond.

christmas2012

stick with your local if you are familiar with him comfortable around him/her stick with what ya know..
my local only charges a very low fee none of this thousands nonsense like i got off some dentists..

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Seriously, the next poster to give out about the way the dental issue forum is run or the rules will take a permeant holiday from the forum.

YOBR there is nothing that can be said that changes your mind. We post evidence and its too weak, we post no evidence and you want to know where it is. You offer no evidence for your views and we no nothing of your experience. Anything we say that goes against your suspicions that dentists are somehow evil and manipulative it picked to death by you and you link to journals, competition authority reports and dental council guidelines that no normal person should be reading. You have stated that you have met both previous dental council registrars so its about time you told us your agenda and why you are so interested in this topic but stay out of any thread that is actually about a dental issues rather than a consumer issue.

This forum is not for consumer issues or the nut jobs that topic attracts.

yobr

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

You offer no evidence for your views and we no nothing of your experience. Anything we say that goes against your suspicions that dentists are somehow evil and manipulative it picked to death by you and you link to journals, competition authority reports and dental council guidelines that no normal person should be reading.

Fitzgeme, I find your comments slightly hysterical. I've never said dentists are evil or manipulative so to say that or draw that conclusion is completely over the top. I have posted evidence to back up my statements and while you have acknowledged that, you equally state that I offer no evidence, a statement which is completely contradictory.

To label those who have an interest in dental consumer issues as "nut jobs" shows a clear contempt for the issue and those who have an interest in it. Also, as I am sure you are very aware, such a statement it is also potentially libelous.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Please tell us why you are so interested in this topic and scan the DI forum for threads upon which to grind your axe? I am tired of this trolling now and want some answers. Its important for those who are not as familiar with your post history on the forum as I am to temper your ire with understanding of who you are and why your so angry.

Dr Turk Turkelton

@op to save money on expensive dental work in future:

Stop eating candy floss!

Dianthus

I was referring to a suggestion that you attend a dental surgery for a week,to observe the ins&outs of what actually goes on in a dental surgery. I'm not really bothered what you post/debate about on boards,work away (mods notwithstanding!). The point was,for regular patients of the practice,having someone observe who a)has no interest in dentistry as a career, b)is not a friend/relative, c) is prone to making remarks such as "potentially libelous" in the context of a forum where there is complete anonymity(unless yobr is a christian name/celeb that we all know of?)........I can't see that it's fair or right to impose on regular patients,&have their space invaded like that. Fine on a forum,not when you're paying a dentist to have to listen to debates& justifying this that& the other.

Oral Surgeon

yobr wrote: »

To label those who have an interest in dental consumer issues as "nut jobs" shows a clear contempt for the issue and those who have an interest in it. Also, as I am sure you are very aware, such a statement it is also potentially libelous.

Take him to the Dental complaint Resolution service Yobr
http://www.dentalcomplaints.ie/

yobr

Raven Loose Lambaste wrote: »

Please tell us why you are so interested in this topic and scan the DI forum for threads upon which to grind your axe? I am tired of this trolling now and want some answers.

I've answered all of these questions before on other DI threads and don't intend to go there again. I don't troll and as you have suggested earlier, I provide evidence to back up my posts. If you want to discuss this any further you can pm me.

Dianthus wrote: »

I was referring to a suggestion that you attend a dental surgery for a week,to observe the ins&outs of what actually goes on in a dental surgery. I'm not really bothered what you post/debate about on boards,work away (mods notwithstanding!).

Thanks for the offer but I have done this already so know the ins and outs.

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Take him to the Dental complaint Resolution service Yobr
http://www.dentalcomplaints.ie/

Thanks for the (tongue in cheek) suggestion but I don't think it will come to that.

I'm gonna sign off now...enjoy the sunshine over weekend.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

yobr wrote: »

To label those who have an interest in dental consumer issues as "nut jobs" shows a clear contempt for the issue and those who have an interest in it. Also, as I am sure you are very aware, such a statement it is also potentially libelous.

That statement shows how you interpret anything a dentist says as being a personal attack on you. I find your comments that the dentists on here and other threads (ney the profession as a whole) are liars to be libelous if that's the childish games you want to play.

Infact you have actually proved on the dispute resolution thread that your suspicions about the dental profession blind to to views and initiatives that will actually save patients money.I find your views akin to Sinn Feins political policies, populist myopic, retoric without any notion of the reality of the issues, technical factors or holistic view of the problems, and the ability to spout these ill informed opinions from the safety of knowing you are not accountable for the damage and misinformation your view bring into the public arena. You use the fact that the professionals on here are accountable and have ethics as a weapon with which to beat us over the head and presented this as evidence paraphrased to suit your agenda. Each time one of your points is shot down you move to another.

The fact that you seem to be involved of have contact with the dental council and also that you admit to having some experiance in a dental surgery would suggest you should now allow people to temper your view with knowledge of what your involvement in this area is. You have stated to me that you are an economist, but what's the connection with dental. I dont think you have much experience as you are so ill informed, yet you offer publically available goggle links to as evidence and dismiss dentists opinions with years of experience with thousands of patients and indepth knowledge of the working of both the business and science of dentistry as mearly spin. .

yobr

This last post is just a personal attack. I have no intention of responding.

Dianthus

yobr wrote: »

This last post is just a personal attack. I have no intention of responding.

Ah do. I'm most interested to know under what circumstances you've had the opportunity to spend a full week in a dental practice observing the ins&outs of its' running. Curious& curiouser....

digzy

yobr wrote: »

This last post is just a personal attack. I have no intention of responding.

jesus thank fcuk....
if ever a thread went away from the op:rolleyes: