What do you think of Dublin Bus?

Andremac96

i get this quite often and am wondering what are you opinions comments complaints satisfaction and improvments that could be made open to all

carlmango11

I actually think it's gotten quite good, particularly since the introduction of the real-time info, app, leap card etc. however I still think there is an existing attitude of "ah sure it's just the bus" among staff which I think leads DB to believing it can provide an unreliable service when it likes.

However there are much (much) worse semi-state transport companIEs.

bk

Dublin Bus is actually quiet good, but could do better.

Their fleet is relatively young, good and all wheelchair accessible.

Their main issues are dwell time (how long it takes to get people on and off the bus) and the complexity of the ticket system.

Things I'd like to see them improve:

- A proper journey planner, like hittheroad.ie, rather then the crap current planner which seems to assume everyone lives at a bus stop. Cheap and easy to do, just pay hittheroad.ie to use theirs.

- Display fare information, number of stages and prices for selected journey. Again cheap and easy to do.

- Improve the iphone and android apps, primarily with the above two changes, but others too. Again cheap and easy to do.

- Add next stop LED displays to every bus, tied in with the GPS. Ideally copy the great way it is done in Amsterdam (TV which shows the estimated arrival time at the next four stops, really great). A bit more expensive, but still relatively cheap to do.

- Switch to tag on and tag off for leap card and massively increase the cost of cash fares to help reduce well times. Shouldn't cost much money to do, in fact they may make money from reduced dwell times and the increased cash fares.

- Move to dual and triple door buses and actually operate all doors. Will help reduce dwell times. Obviously a costly move, as it involves buying new buses, but can be done gradually with fleet renewal.

- Work with the Dept of Transport, NTA, Gardai and Dublin City Council to remove bottle necks from the network (e.g. the Cat and Cage in Drumcondra) and other issues like taxis blocking streets, etc.

- Move all transport tickets to Leap.

- Move to a more integrated ticketing system, ideally like the Amsterdam model, which I think would work really well here. But this is more of a NTA/DoT issue then DB.

If DB do all of the above (and there is no reason the 3 or 4 of the above items can't be done today) then DB would actually be a very good system.

So close, yet so far.

mikemac1

STT security please, the ones that Irish Rail use
Don't need them all the time, just certain services at certain times

78A now the 40 is just not good enough for an example.
The buses are new and modern, the drivers are sound, the timetable is ok but the top deck is a hellhole at certain times

The above posts are good but security is an issue too and if people feel uncomfortable well they're not going to spend several hundred on an annual ticket


Also in time when pre-pay is more established hike up cash fares and round them off, if it goes to three euro then so be it.
Dwell times must be reduced and fiddling with five cent is not helping

lounakin

I find Dublin Bus the worst public transport service I've ever seen, by far. I have lived in other countries so perhaps I just have a taste of how it could be, but it's so far below bad I can't understand why there aren't more complaints.
I've been avoiding it like the plague.
- Price: it is VERY expensive, more so than Paris rates. Buying a ticket is an utter inconvenience, the whole exact change thing is a joke. I'm glad they are bringing in new cards (leap) but it's still outrageously expensive for people who don't have far to go. Another problem is the fares are hard to work out at best.
- Bus stops: if you don't know where you're going, short of asking the driver, there is no way you'll know where to get off. The schedules of the bus are ridiculously inaccurate and the new display systems mostly don't work (bus is in 3 minutes, then 4, then 2, then 10 etc...)
- Driving: they drive way too fast and are extremely careless. I walk to work everyday, I live and work in the city centre. Every day, and I mean EVERY day, I see one or more buses run a red light.
Time: I do not remember getting a bus on time in all the years I've had the misfortune to rely on dublin bus. And that's any time of the day, not just rush hour.
My experience, more often than not is this one: Waiting for at least 30 minutes for a bus scheduled to come every 5/10 minutes every time.
How many times has the bus not stopped to take passengers? Countless. And we have eyes, we can see the bus is not always packed.
- Programming a journey: lately I don't rely on dublin bus on a day to day basis, but I still have to go to the suburbs once in a while. It is nearly impossible to judge when you'll get to your destination. One of my colleagues at work is late 90% of the time in the morning, and arrives at various times even though she's lived in the same area for years. If there's one thing I remember from taking the bus in Paris (for instance) to go to school is this: there are vicious traffic jams in the morning so you take a much earlier bus, that bus will also be late but in a consistent way and get you to your destination in an expected time.
Dublin bus can be mind boggling: there is no traffic, it's outside any kind of rush hour, your bus is one of the most frequent ones, yet you've been standing there 40 minutes and no sign of a working bus! But... plenty of out of service ones!

One last complaint: I used to live on Capel street. There are no buses in the area (ie Parnell, Capel, Bolton etc...) but the out of services buses would regularly drive down Capel Street, polluting the view! Not fair.

liger

lounakin wrote: »

- Price: it is VERY expensive, more so than Paris rates. Buying a ticket is an utter inconvenience, the whole exact change thing is a joke. I'm glad they are bringing in new cards (leap) but it's still outrageously expensive for people who don't have far to go. Another problem is the fares are hard to work out at best. .

Lots of companies in england for example have flat fee system. £2.50 to go 5stops down the road. compared to the cost of just getting into a taxi I think all Luas/Bus/Dart fares are cheap.

Thousands of shops to buy a prepaid card in or pay with cash on the bus, Whats inconvenient?

lounakin wrote: »

- Bus stops: if you don't know where you're going, short of asking the driver, there is no way you'll know where to get off. The schedules of the bus are ridiculously inaccurate and the new display systems mostly don't work (bus is in 3 minutes, then 4, then 2, then 10 etc...) .

Valid point. I thought with the new AVL thing that buses were to get a luas type stop announement system, I may be at piolt stage on the 123. My personal experience of the new displays has been good. I am regular bus user and I think with them and the phone app the bus has no showed twice.

lounakin wrote: »

- Driving: they drive way too fast and are extremely careless. I walk to work everyday, I live and work in the city centre. Every day, and I mean EVERY day, I see one or more buses run a red light.
.

Its always unfair to paint everyone in a company with the same brush because of a few bad apples. I doubt every driver in DB is going around speeding and driving wrecklessly. Buses cant go above 65kph and with all the cameras on board it surely is very easy to prove if a driver is driving crazy

lounakin wrote: »

Time: I do not remember getting a bus on time in all the years I've had the misfortune to rely on dublin bus. And that's any time of the day, not just rush hour.
One of my colleagues at work is late 90% of the time in the morning, and arrives at various times even though she's lived in the same area for years.
.

Maybe somebody needs to get up earlier!

lounakin wrote: »

One last complaint: I used to live on Capel street. There are no buses in the area (ie Parnell, Capel, Bolton etc...) but the out of services buses would regularly drive down Capel Street, polluting the view! Not fair.

Unless there is a restriction on the road a bus is entitled to drive on it just like every other vehicle out there

foggy_lad

Dublin Bus are great! well the Drivers and other front line staff at least. The buses can be a bit grubby at times but that is down to dirty passengers who drop their rubbish as they walk leaving a trail of crap wherever they go!

There should be no buggys allowed on buses unless folded!

The people who refuse to move down the back and take up seats there or go upstairs should be put off the bus! They are responsible for much of the long dwell times!

Drivers are not always in a great mood but WHO IS?!? They are only human! most times they are courteous and as helpful as they can be with directions or other information. Many go over and above what is expected simply because it costs nothin to be nice!

As for them being too fast, I have heard americans on buses before shriek with surprise at the speed of our buses because at home their city buses are all driving along dead straight manicured city streets, only cornering at traffic lights, while here any journey is more like a roller coaster ride with bridges hollows bumps narrow streets cobblestones and sharp corners which are all the more exciting taken at speed:D

lounakin

To Liger: I find it hilarious that you demonstrate your first point by giving the example of the second most expensive country (probably in the world) when it comes to public transport!
For the inconvenience of tickets: I don't know if you can now (in the last few months) but you cannot buy a ten journey ticket for instance, that would be cheaper than buying 10 tickets. The whole exact change in the bus is really annoying if you have to get it then (if you're not sure where you're going or how much it costs etc).
As for the 'bad apples' I agree that you shouldn't judge a whole enterprise on a few bad ones but in my experience I'm talking about the vast majority.
My last point was that why does the bus not serve more of the city centre? Usually because it's inconvenient for them to drive down certain narrow roads.... well... only with passengers in...

The fact is, I guarantee if you ask anyone who's lived outside ireland (except england, where you pay 40 pounds for a 20 minute train ride!) they will tell you it's the worst service. I actually don't know anyone around me who's ever said it was even ok.

lounakin

To Liger: I find it hilarious that you demonstrate your first point by giving the example of the second most expensive country (probably in the world) when it comes to public transport!
For the inconvenience of tickets: I don't know if you can now (in the last few months) but you cannot buy a ten journey ticket for instance, that would be cheaper than buying 10 tickets. The whole exact change in the bus is really annoying if you have to get it then (if you're not sure where you're going or how much it costs etc).
As for the 'bad apples' I agree that you shouldn't judge a whole enterprise on a few bad ones but in my experience I'm talking about the vast majority.
My last point was that why does the bus not serve more of the city centre? Usually because it's inconvenient for them to drive down certain narrow roads.... well... only with passengers in...

The fact is, I guarantee if you ask anyone who's lived outside ireland (except england, where you pay 40 pounds for a 20 minute train ride!) they will tell you it's the worst service. I actually don't know anyone around me who's ever said it was even ok.

Green Diesel

For the most part, it's grand. Much better now than it was even 5yrs ago... apart from the no-Nitelink weekdays.

Main problems in my opinion are the routes, nearly all of them lead to Dublin, some kind of M50 express route would be great for commuters who have to transfer in the city centre.

I remember the system in Vancouver was exceptionally good, but the grid streets made it a doddle to implement handy transferring, and their bus / rail / boat system was all incorporated into one entity, so daily / monthly tickets were quite cheap.

AngryLips

I might be in the minority here, but I think Network Direct has been great at improving travel options from northside to south and vice versa. It use to be the case that no matter where on the other side of the river I wanted to go it involved a change in the city centre but now there are often cross city options meaning I avoid the nightmare of town.

Rock of Gibraltar

It's gotten better recently with network direct, leap and real time info but for a service that's the backbone of public transport in Dublin it's very poor.

It's fine if you're going into the city or across city but it's completely useless on orbital routes, even going to places in the inner city not on the O'Connell St or quays axis can be tricky.

Dwell times are ludicrous, buses need double or triple doors with a tag on tag off system like the OV-Chipkaart system in the Netherlands.

No buses have any signage indicating where on the route they are and which stop is next, if you're not familiar with a route its very difficult to know where you're going and where to get off. There's also inadequate signage on the bus stops themselves.

There are no proper bus stations where it's easy to interchange routes and other transport modes.

We don't have proper integrated ticketing, leap isn't a proper integrated ticket just a collection of tickets on one card, you can't integrate a journey on it.

There are also far too many stops very close together, like on either side of Leeson St. bridge. What's the point? they're maybe 25 meters apart, get rid of one of them and speed up the route.

Not Dublin Bus responsibility but the road surface on bus lanes is often poor and there isn't separation of bus lanes from regular traffic, like it's very common for taxi's, parked coaches, delivery vans to block bus lanes and stops in the city centre. I think Dublin should implement Paris style segregation of bus lanes and general traffic lanes with a physical barrier.

bk

Night time services, a very good point.

The current situation with no services after 11:30 and the inadequate nitelink service is pretty bad.

Was in London over the weekend and was very impressed with the way that many if not most of the normal bus routes run 24 hours, with a frequency of about every 15 to 20 minutes and no extra cost. We really could do with something similar here, at least of the Network direct super routes.

Vahevala

It is expensive. I have to spend 124 Euro on a monthly bus and luas ticket which is pricey, yearly tickets are lethally expensive. :(

Bus stops around Suffolk Street are ridiculous, way too packed and very hard to catch a bus there without risking missing it or getting run over Bus stops are way too close together, it is like they are afraid that people have to walk a little bit... :rolleyes:

Also the RTPI displays at times seem to be a work of fiction, a regular bus route that I get at a certain stop seems to never display on it, yet appears at the bus stop perfectly...

Would agree with the security thing, anything to get rid of the scumbag element either drinking/smoking/playing loud music/shouting racist abuse would be welcome..

Dirk Gently

I'll just throw a quick mention in to the Dub bus drivers. As both a cyclist and a motorcyclist I can say without doubt that Dub bus drivers are the best drivers in the city as regards to road awareness. As an occasional bus user again I find the drivers great.

As regards the real time displays at bus stops, yes they can jump back and forth a bit. I don't mind it being 4 minutes then going up to 5 or something like that, but skipping from 20 mins down to 3 mins is a bit annoying.

I'm not overly concerned with sexy new technology, just keep arriving on time, get me there in one piece and keep the fares down. I'd rather a cheap fare than paying extra for in bus tv monitors showing the next stop, the window is big enough on the bus. There is a line between convenience and wanting to spend big money just to be a lazy git. Some people wont be happy until the driver stops outside their house and walks them to the door under an umbrella. I'd be happy with on time and cost effective. Overall I think Dub bus do a decent job considering the road network they have to work with which is a bit of a nightmare for running an efficient mass transport system for the city. It is still cheaper for me to buy petrol and pay insurance on my bike than to use the bus though.

Slunk

They are fairly good and usually on time. I use the app for up to date times and rarely wrong. One thing though is some drivers seem to just ignore you at bus stops sometimes and drive past with a half empty bus.
Another mention for the top deck of the 40. You could write a best seller with the stories you hear on this. I'm on it as we speak surrounded by junkies. I'm convinced someone has **** themselves because of the smell. Drunks and general scumbags talking about the price of gear, robbing apartment blocks and where's best to do it and the favourite topic of all how long they have spent in the joy and who they done time with. Get a few people smoking and I don't for one minute blame the drivers. I wouldn't say anything either. Plus the occasional drug related rubbish like broken medicine bottles etc.
Don't know why they joined the two routes up. Madness. Think they should have some security staff on it like the luas but they don't seem to do anything about the junkies on that so what's the point. Just there to stop you having a quiet can before you hit town or whatever.

noelfirl

I commute by both the Stillorgan and Lucan corridors daily, which are admittedly probably misreprentative, what with both having relatively decent bus infrastructure and a good allocation of resources, but anyway, for me at least since Network Direct there has been a significant improval in service. There are rarely waits of more then 7-8 minutes on either corridor, there are umpteen different connection and overlap points in the city to get from one corridor to the other (compared to before ND, where there was basically one) and the real time info for both corridors is reasonably reliable.

mikemac1

Dirk Gently wrote: »

I'll just throw a quick mention in to the Dub bus drivers. As both a cyclist and a motorcyclist I can say without doubt that Dub bus drivers are the best drivers in the city as regards to road awareness.

Definitely agree

You get a different experience on a bike or motorbike/scooter and you will be spending a lot of your time in the bus lane

The DB drivers are superb.
Not sure what training they do but it's clearly working, best drivers in the city
And it's not easy, people on bikes are filtering and zipping in and out of gaps, it takes training and great awareness to get the buses around the city without incident
And there are a few ninja cyclists out there who insist on no lights and zero hi-vis gear. Fools with a death wish tbh

Oh I'm sure posters have anecdotes about the odd rogue and aggressive behaviour but overall I find them very good.
And that's good, full confidence in the drivers

LordSutch

Quick question: Is that Wrightbus Diesel/Electric Hybrid (WH1) sill running, or has it been axed?

strandroad

DB fleet is good.
Drivers are polite and generally helpful.

Inefficiency is staggering, in both planning and execution.

I have comparison with a range of European cities and I have never seen such a chaotic, unreliable system. Most days it really feels like someone took a bunch of guys, gave them a bunch of buses and sent them out into town, sure you'll be grand.

DB is the best advertisement for cycling I've ever seen And I live on a QBC!

The_Wrecker

LordSutch wrote: »

Quick question: Is that Wrightbus Diesel/Electric Hybrid (WH1) sill running, or has it been axed?

Disconnected, we didnt pay the bill!:eek:

Cookie_Monster

Dirk Gently wrote: »

I'll just throw a quick mention in to the Dub bus drivers. As both a cyclist and a motorcyclist I can say without doubt that Dub bus drivers are the best drivers in the city as regards to road awareness. As an occasional bus user again I find the drivers great.

Second this, apart from a few very rare instances of bad/crazy behaviour drivers in general are top notch and very aware. I especially notice it while cycling

LordSutch

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Disconnected, we didnt pay the bill!:eek:

That's a shame, and I guess it also means that DB are in a bad way, if they cant afford to fund just one Hybrid bus :cool:

The_Wrecker

LordSutch wrote: »

That's a shame, and I guess it also means that DB are in a bad way, if they cant afford to fund just one Hybrid bus :cool:

Just kidding about the ESB cutting us off ~ it wasnt the most reliable of beast.

LordSutch

Ah, you old kidder you

So it was unrelyability that was the cause of its departure.

Cheers.

LXFlyer

LordSutch wrote: »

That's a shame, and I guess it also means that DB are in a bad way, if they cant afford to fund just one Hybrid bus :cool:

A fleet of one bus is far harder to maintain than a fleet of 20.

Lack of commonality of parts etc.

Nothing to do with DB funding - it was a political gesture that really was not successful as the bus was rather less than reliable.

foggy_lad

Slunk wrote: »

One thing though is some drivers seem to just ignore you at bus stops sometimes and drive past with a half empty bus.

Do you make sure to stick your hand out so they know to stop?

bk

mikemac1 wrote: »

The DB drivers are superb.

Just wanted to say plus one x 1000 to this.

DB drivers are excellent and as a cyclist myself and often sharing the same bus lanes, I really appreciate how good DB drivers are.

Specially when you consider the crazy ticketing system they also have to deal with!! Really something needs to be done about ticketing, so that drivers can focus on purely driving the bus safely.

lounakin

I'm amazed at all these cyclists praising the buses! I have such a different experience... I guess they are no worse than cabs and pedestrians but to me they are super dangerous. As I pointed out before I see at least one bus barrelling through a red light a day, but I'm thinking that could be just the area I'm in: I see that happening almost every morning on Upper Ormond quay (crossing Capel Street). I see people having to quickly jump back as they realise the bus will not stop. I myself have had a few close ones and being pregnant, I really don't like it.
In the last year I've taken this route every morning, I've seen a lot of cyclists face planting on the road too... not all because of buses, mainly crashing into pedestrians! Sometimes people cross the road without looking for the cyclists and sometimes it's because the cyclist didn't stop at the light. That actually happened last week, I've never seen people fly so high before!
The other spot where buses consistently not stop at the light is a less dangerous one: turning from Westmorland street left down the quays. Because they have to turn they are not going too fast and it's mostly a case of trying to get the last few seconds of orange light to get buy. I find it outrageous nonetheless, because they end up half way and people have to go around to make to the other side in the 10 seconds or so. Think of a blind person, not fair.
Even if the DB are courteous to cyclists, they shouldn't be sharing the same lane. It's madness.
To respond to foggy lad: this has happened to me too: empty bus not stopping and me waving my arms like a lunatic!
I can't remember on which board I read this but someone overheard a conversation between 2 bus drivers, one driving, the other standing next to the window. People were waving in the street but he didn't stop, then said to his colleague: "if no one wants to get out, I'm not stopping!".

It's a shame for the good drivers out there, I've had a few good experiences, but so many bad ones!

strandroad

foggy_lad wrote: »

Do you make sure to stick your hand out so they know to stop?

I've seen on two separate occasions how a person on the bus stop was ignored. They indicated properly and the buses were nowhere near full (I was on the bus). The driver just ignored them. Both times it was a single person waiting, on a weekend - no clue if this could be a factor but I'm sure it was not fun for them to wait longer for the next bus.

bk

mhge wrote: »

I've seen on two separate occasions how a person on the bus stop was ignored. They indicated properly and the buses were nowhere near full (I was on the bus). The driver just ignored them. Both times it was a single person waiting, on a weekend - no clue if this could be a factor but I'm sure it was not fun for them to wait longer for the next bus.

I've never seen that happen *, but if I did I'd question the driver, note down the route, time and bus number and report it to the depot and DB.

* On a quiet bus, obviously seen it on a packed bus. Yes in this case there may actually be some standing space at the back or free seats upstairs, but I'd imagine it can be hard for drivers to tell that from their seated position if a load of people are standing around jamming up the lower part of the bus.

Even if the DB are courteous to cyclists, they shouldn't be sharing the same lane. It's madness.

No it isn't it is quiet normal for most transport systems around the world and considered best practice. Most cyclists are just as fast and in many cases a good bit faster then most buses on city streets, so really not an issue.

lounakin

bk wrote: »

No it isn't it is quiet normal for most transport systems around the world and considered best practice. Most cyclists are just as fast and in many cases a good bit faster then most buses on city streets, so really not an issue.

Where else does this happen? I haven't seen that in cities with proper bike lanes like Paris for instance.... They shouldn't be sharing a lane because they can't both fit on it considering you need to leave at least 50 cm between the bus and the cyclist. It's not about going slow or fast but buses need to make their stops and cyclists shouldn't have to go into the traffic to overtake them, nor should they have to stop every time.

edit: what I mean is not that the lanes are occasionally shared but that in Dublin city centre they are almost always shared.

Cookie_Monster

lounakin wrote: »

It's not about going slow or fast but buses need to make their stops and cyclists shouldn't have to go into the traffic to overtake them, nor should they have to stop every time.

Happens everywhere. London if you want a specific example. Why can't buses and bikes share lanes, sure cars and bikes and trucks and buses share lanes everywhere anyway!

bk

lounakin, you must not be a regular cyclist. Cyclists don't really like cycle lanes unless they are really good, high quality ones like in Amsterdam or Copenhagen.

Generally cycle lanes are terrible here and cyclists much prefer to be on the road which is well maintained, plenty of space and has priority, rather then some crappy small, narrow, badly maintained cycle lane that has zero priority.

Bus lanes are great for cyclists as you get all the benefits of a proper road, with much less traffic in it.

A lot of people who aren't cyclists seem to think cyclists like cycle lanes. The reality is most cycle lanes are terrible and most cyclists hate them.

lounakin

Bk, I was a cyclist but it just go too scary for me. I totally agree with you that in Dublin, cycle lanes are terrible... you are illustrating my point for me! They are terrible because you can't use them. Taxis are parked, buses are stopped, delivery vans hang around, people are just standing there etc...
Dublin either needs better cycling lanes or it the gardai have to come down harder on people who don't observe the rules of the road.
I've been here 12 or 13 years and I have seen Dublin change radically since then. 10 years ago, people would always stop at lights, there was less jay-walking, cars would let pedestrians cross the road etc. Now, people run red lights all the time (in most countries that's the highest offence of the kind!) and stop signs (like the one that gives onto Mary Street, I know it's mostly pedestrian but the sign is there and no one observes it), people randomly run into the street regardless of the traffic, and in places where pedestrians have priority to cross (example: where Capel and Parnell cross) you'd be lucky if one out of 20 cars is willing to take a few seconds out of their day to let you do so! Every morning I had the same issue, standing there waiting for a nice driver to stop, and it's nearly always truck drivers who end up stopping.

bk

No what Dublin needs to do is a complete re-think. They need to follow the Amsterdam/Copenhagen model that sets cycling and walking as the primary means of transport in the city, public transport as second and cars/taxis as a very distant third.

Everything they do is to deigned to make walking and cycling safe and easy. That definitely isn't the case in Ireland and it won't change until the way that city councils get financed changes. At the moment city councils make a great deal of their income from car parking. While this situation continues, cars will continue to dominate our city streets an pedestrians and cyclists will continue to be a second thought.

lounakin

Amen to tha BK! Dublin would be ideal for such a model and it truly would be heaven and not just at 11!

starviewadams

Overall I think Dublin Bus is fairly good,the route that I use most frequently,the 13,after a shaky start with bad timetabling,has become much more reliable over the last few months.The 69's timetable has also improved too,as has the 76 which I both use a few times a month.

The real time app is usually accurate to a minute or two which is very handy,and while the Leap card isn't ideal,it still saves me 50c a day on my journey into town compared to cash.

The only problem that annoys me is how early the sevice finishes at.Last bus home from town to Clondalkin is at around 11.30pm which is far too early,I reckon normal service should run until at least 12.30/1am on weeknights.

The new 69N nitelink route also doesn't serve anywhere near Newlands Cross or my estate which it used to do,which means that I have to stay on from City Centre all the way up to Saggart and get off at Newlands Cross when the bus is returning to the City.But sometimes the drivers won't even let me do that.

dfx-

I'd very much agree that the service finishes far too early. It also is not quite as consistent in finishing time. Some final departures are at 2300, 2315, 2330, 2320, 2325 and some final departures at 2330 during the week turn into 2325 at weekends.

As a heavy bus user and enthusiast..I find Dublin Bus an excellent service. I don't get the demand for cross city services from a passenger perspective. Anytime I've been on a 13, 15, 27, 14, 40 or likewise, there are very few people on board that have boarded on the old route. I get it from the company perspective, but I don't see the passenger demand for it.

carlmango11

bk wrote: »

No what Dublin needs to do is a complete re-think. They need to follow the Amsterdam/Copenhagen model that sets cycling and walking as the primary means of transport in the city, public transport as second and cars/taxis as a very distant third.

Everything they do is to deigned to make walking and cycling safe and easy. That definitely isn't the case in Ireland and it won't change until the way that city councils get financed changes. At the moment city councils make a great deal of their income from car parking. While this situation continues, cars will continue to dominate our city streets an pedestrians and cyclists will continue to be a second thought.

We mustn't forget that Dublin is very hilly and very windy which, mixed with rain, puts a lot of people off cycling (not sure how these compare to other European cities). Also trips to/from the suburbs can be quite long due to the relative low density of Dublin so walking might not be viable for a lot.

bk

carlmango11 wrote: »

We mustn't forget that Dublin is very hilly and very windy which, mixed with rain, puts a lot of people off cycling (not sure how these compare to other European cities). Also trips to/from the suburbs can be quite long due to the relative low density of Dublin so walking might not be viable for a lot.

Well we must forget these things because non of them are true!!!

Take Amsterdam, where 60% of people cycle every week.

1) Amsterdam gets more rain then Dublin, 32.1 inches per year versus 28.9 inches.

2) Dublin isn't hilly at all, What are you talking about?

3) The population density of Dublin (4,588/km2) is much higher then Amsterdam (3,506/km2).

So as you see these excuses are complete nonsense.

Cookie_Monster

carlmango11 wrote: »

We mustn't forget that Dublin is very hilly and very windy which, mixed with rain, puts a lot of people off cycling

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

what a load of ****e

carlmango11

Well on my cycle from the city centre out into the suburbs the road has a few points where it climbs *fairly* steeply for stretches; maybe it's not masively hilly but most commutes are far from flat. I've lived in France and cycling was so much more pleasant because the city I was in didn't have this problem.

Yeah sure Dublin might get less actual rainfall, it gets less than a lot of cities but mixed with strong wind makes for crappy unpleasant weather. In a lot of other places it will rain heavily but not very often which is why rainfall statistics can be misleading. I think we can all accept that Irish/British weather is sh!tty which I think definitely contributes to people favouring cars over bikes.

I have an Italian friend who visited Ireland and said the weather "destroyed him". He lives in the Alps...

markpb

bk wrote: »

2) Dublin isn't hilly at all, What are you talking about?

Eh.. off the top of my head the city centre to the airport, Goatstown road outbound and Ballymun road outbound (Mobhi to Collins) are all very tough cycles. I'm not saying all of Dublin is hilly but likewise you can't say it's not hill at all - that's just plain wrong.

Persiancowboy

As a cyclist in Dublin for over 30 years I generally find Dublin bus drivers to be ok. You will always meet the few that either don't see you or don't don't give a sh*t about you but generally they are ok.

As regards DB itself, as someone who has been using the No. 15 route since 1991 I have to say that I am not a fan of the recent changes made. It is now practically impossible to get on a 15 during the evening peak unless you are at the stops at Trinity (or before). Anything after that and forget it. The withdrawal of the 15b from Terenure/Templeogue and the ending of the 74 route has left the 15 as the only service for these areas as well as for Knocklyon/Ballycullen. Result is packed and infrequent buses especially at peak times.

Same applies in the morning but as I live near the terminus I can always get a seat inbound...by the time the bus hits Knocklyon road/Firhouse road it is often full and people are left to wait for the next one.

I feel DB have always struggled to meet peak time demand and it is most times left to the discetion of individual drivers as to whether a bus will stop to pick people up or not once a few are standing on the lower level.

Allied to this DB also introduced hefty price increases at the start of the year. While the front-line staff (drivers) are generally very professional I can't say the same for the clowns charged with running the company. Packing people onto buses and expecting them to stand (having paid often over €2 a journey) is just not good enough.

I wonder how many of DB management actually use the bus network for commuting purposes? I would acknowledge the recent improvements with Leap (which I use and it's great) and the real-time info (which although not always accurate) is generally a reliable indicator of schedules.

strandroad

Persiancowboy wrote: »

I feel DB have always struggled to meet peak time demand and it is most times left to the discetion of individual drivers as to whether a bus will stop to pick people up or not once a few are standing on the lower level.

Very true. N11 QBC is a joke in this respect, there were 23 people waiting on one of the stops earlier this week and it's not unusual at all to see 4-5 buses pass you by before one even stops - to take four or so people on board.
I only need to take the bus into town once a week and can cycle for the remainder. I pity those who endure this service every working day and pay through the nose for the privilege.

Cool Mo D

carlmango11 wrote: »

We mustn't forget that Dublin is very hilly and very windy which, mixed with rain, puts a lot of people off cycling (not sure how these compare to other European cities). Also trips to/from the suburbs can be quite long due to the relative low density of Dublin so walking might not be viable for a lot.

Dublin is fairly wet, but not very different to cities in the Netherlands and Denmark, where cycling is huge. Also, Dublin is not hilly, with the exception of the small hill around Christchurch, it's practically flat as a pancake.

bk

carlmango11 wrote: »

Yeah sure Dublin might get less actual rainfall, it gets less than a lot of cities but mixed with strong wind makes for crappy unpleasant weather. In a lot of other places it will rain heavily but not very often which is why rainfall statistics can be misleading. I think we can all accept that Irish/British weather is sh!tty which I think definitely contributes to people favouring cars over bikes.

No different then any of the Scandinavian countries who tend to have much colder weather, more rain and the same winds, yet have very high levels of cycling.

It really is a very sad excuse and it is very typical of Irish people "sure that mad cycling stuff will never work here, sure look at all the rain here in Ireland". Where the truth is actually very different.

I thought we had finally dis-proven that sort of thinking with the Dublin bikes scheme ("will never work, they will all end up in the river").

In my experience of cycling every day, while it may often be overcast, it rarely actually rains. And sure you can always take the bus if it does.

As for Dublin being hilly, as a Corkonian I find that hilarious, Dubliners clearly have no idea what a hill is

There are really no hills in Dublin, there is a slight gradient incline as you head North of the city, but it is a very slight incline, certainly no hill and it can easily be taken with a normal cadence and a lower gear, absolutely nothing to stress about, you shouldn't even need to get out of your seat.

As for Dublin being spread out, it really isn't, I frequently cycle to and from Dun Laoghaire, most people would consider that far out, but it only takes me 30 minutes at a pretty slow 20km/h. Yet even at that I still beat the DART in Most people in Dublin really don't live very far out.

If Amsterdam and Copenhagen can have very high levels of cycling there is absolutely no reason why Dublin can't do. There is absolutely no difference in terms of weather, topography or population density, in fact Dublin is more attractive on all counts. Instead we just need a change in mindset. We need to forget about these tired excuses and get on our bikes. Your type of thinking is exactly the old tired Irish thinking that needs to be changed.

Vahevala

Not everyone feels safe on the roads or not everyone is as fit as you may be and would rather get public transport or drive. For me, I would not be happy cycling or feel comfortable cycling a large distance, each to their own.

Are you for real:

Most people in Dublin really don't live very far out.

Maybe not to you but I can vouch that I live a huge distance from where I work. How did you come up with the statement above??

carlmango11

bk wrote: »

No different then any of the Scandinavian countries who tend to have much colder weather, more rain and the same winds, yet have very high levels of cycling.

Well if that's the case then maybe it is an attitude thing. I also had the impression that Irish weather was particularly bad but I've never been to any Scandinavian countries.

bk wrote: »

I thought we had finally dis-proven that sort of thinking with the Dublin bikes scheme ("will never work, they will all end up in the river").

That's unrelated. That was an attitude regarding theft and vandalism.

bk wrote: »

If Amsterdam and Copenhagen can have very high levels of cycling there is absolutely no reason why Dublin can't do. There is absolutely no difference in terms of weather, topography or population density, in fact Dublin is more attractive on all counts. Instead we just need a change in mindset. We need to forget about these tired excuses and get on our bikes. Your type of thinking is exactly the old tired Irish thinking that needs to be changed.

Hmm I don't know why but I still can't see most people ditching the bus/train/car to cycle even if it is faster. Maybe it is just an attitude issue. Even in my office people were talking about cycling but most didn't want to because they could arrive to working sweating or soaked.

Stripey Cat

In a city where it rains pretty much every day, it seems odd that bus stops don't all have some sort of rain shelter built in.

Perhaps they could sling some material between the stop and the real-time display for us to shelter under?