New Ross - Proposed "Docks Hotel Festival" and guess who? JEDWARD! AGAIN! (MOD NOTE)

Conas

Nypd wrote: »

You are basing your arguments on a price you think Jedward goes for.
I would have thought the area were it was being held would hold more than 1500.

You seem to be forgetting to mention that there was 3 different gigs, your argument seems very flawed.

Well what's your argument then? Do you think that a mysterious business could stop a festival from happening, when they don't even retail in the town? Give me a break will you. There were no objections, and the New Ross Traders Association even said it themselves. The Guards gave it the green light too.

paudy

Conas wrote: »

Nypd wrote: »

You are basing your arguments on a price you think Jedward goes for.
I would have thought the area were it was being held would hold more than 1500.

You seem to be forgetting to mention that there was 3 different gigs, your argument seems very flawed.

Well what's your argument then? Do you think that a mysterious business could stop a festival from happening, when they don't even retail in the town? Give me a break will you. There were no objections, and the New Ross Traders Association even said it themselves. The Guards gave it the green light too.

Where are you getting that the business isn't located in the town ?

allthedoyles

Jedward media card

Conas

paudy wrote: »

Where are you getting that the business isn't located in the town ?

Look Paudy if you can't be bothered to read the thread before replying then I'm not bothered discussing it with you. Here is some of the message from the summer festivals facebook page where I got my information from:

"We have received a lot of support from the retailers of New Ross expressing their support for the event and we would like to make it very clear that when we referenced a small section of the business community in our original statement we had not intended to tar all business in the area with the one brush.
The campaign was spear headed by a local business that is not involved in retail in the town"

You accuse me of guessing. :rolleyes:

St Senan

Mod Note

Guys the gig is cancelled. Please be civil to each other. This thread will be locked shortly any ways as it has run its course.

paudy

Conas wrote: »

paudy wrote: »

Where are you getting that the business isn't located in the town ?

Look Paudy if you can't be bothered to read the thread before replying then I'm not bothered discussing it with you. Here is some of the message from the summer festivals facebook page where I got my information from:

"We have received a lot of support from the retailers of New Ross expressing their support for the event and we would like to make it very clear that when we referenced a small section of the business community in our original statement we had not intended to tar all business in the area with the one brush.
The campaign was spear headed by a local business that is not involved in retail in the town"

You accuse me of guessing. :rolleyes:

You may want to read it yourself. It says a local business that is not involved in retail.

I would take that a local business is something that is in the town.

paudy

Navarre wrote: »

Mod Note

Guys the gig is cancelled. Please be civil to each other. This thread will be locked shortly any ways as it has run its course.

So because the gig is cancelled we are no longer allowed to debate the reasons?

St Senan

You can debate all you want but please be civil towards 1 another. The thread along with other threads that past by the date of the gig will eventually be closed.

allthedoyles

Only the out-door gig is cancelled ...........not the weekend festival

paudy

paudy wrote: »

Navarre wrote: »

Mod Note

Guys the gig is cancelled. Please be civil to each other. This thread will be locked shortly any ways as it has run its course.

So because the gig is cancelled we are no longer allowed to debate the reasons?

On another note from what I understand the gig isn't cancelled. Just jedward. The organisers have moved the festival indoors.

St Senan

Yep the post before your last 1 has just explained it all to everyone here.

Nypd

Conas wrote: »

Nypd wrote: »

You are basing your arguments on a price you think Jedward goes for.
I would have thought the area were it was being held would hold more than 1500.

You seem to be forgetting to mention that there was 3 different gigs, your argument seems very flawed.

Well what's your argument then? Do you think that a mysterious business could stop a festival from happening, when they don't even retail in the town? Give me a break will you. There were no objections, and the New Ross Traders Association even said it themselves. The Guards gave it the green light too.

You obviously have inside information or you are just simply full of (insert word of preference)

Your arguments are ridiculous saying its not speculation just because you have thought about it.
Isn't speculation peoples thoughts ?

Conas

Nypd wrote: »

You obviously have inside information or you are just simply full of (insert word of preference)

Your arguments are ridiculous saying its not speculation just because you have thought about it.
Isn't speculation peoples thoughts ?

Well my arguments aren't ridiculous because you seem to be unable to put an answer to them. All you are doing is derailing this thread by being critical of me for whatever reason, maybe if you can debate my points and tell me why you think it was cancelled then great. If not, then I don't care what you think.

allthedoyles

Nothing unusual about Jedward Concerts been cancelled :

Due to circumstances beyond our control, the Jedward concert due to take place on 26 April at Belfast Waterfront has been cancelled

CONTROVERSIAL X-Factor finalists Jedward have cancelled their appearance in Manchester this weekend

X FACTOR rejects John and Edward Grimes are still causing controversy. The boys have dumped a night in Southampton in favour of a big money TV offer

Jedward’s upcoming shows in Omagh Leisure Centre on 5 August and Dungannon Leisure Centre on 7 August have been cancelled.

The Jedward event in Carlow on Aug 25th has been CANCELLED. Contact Ticketgroup for refunds

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jedward+cancelled+

Conas

allthedoyles wrote: »

Nothing unusual about Jedward Concerts been cancelled

That's not the issue. I have no problem with a Jedward gig being cancelled, and I didn't care that the one in New Ross had been cancelled too, because there wasn't a hope in hell of me going anyway. But the reason I got annoyed was the silly and stupid reason the docks gave, stating that a small sub section of the business community had been to blame, which was false and an insult to the town. They said they had lost €10,000 because of it, which made the business community in town look even worse. Then they backpedalled and started sucking up to the local business's, and then switched their story and said the business doesn't retail here. Utter nonsense. They are just really bad liars.

MD Events

Post Edit

MD Events. you cant post under that user name here, Contact hello@boards.ie to prove who you are and to set-up a verified rep account, You can contact me or any other mod here via PM to confirm you have a rep account.

regards
Navarre.

scico rocks

Conas wrote: »

Well my arguments aren't ridiculous because you seem to be unable to put an answer to them. All you are doing is derailing this thread by being critical of me for whatever reason, maybe if you can debate my points and tell me why you think it was cancelled then great. If not, then I don't care what you think.

Hi, came across this post. Conas, where are you basing your figures from?
4,500 people at €12.50 is €56k (and change).
I've booked countless acts for Dublin, Cork colleges etc and local Cork Venues for ages so feel I am qualified to comment on this.

Jedward are receiving €8k for their upcoming Mullingar gig. Can't imagine they would have gotten more for New Ross.
Acts like Original Rudeboys, King Kong Company and possibly Smash Hits could have been offered €2/3k each. Jerry Fish, CLK, Bipolar Empire, Four of Us, Riptide Movement would averagely get a fee of €1/1.5k. There are exceptions to this of course (fees do vary from festival to festival - though not hugely). The music industry in Ireland is very small so a lot of promoters talk with each other.

So....
Jedward €8k
Rudeboys €3k
KKC €3k
Smash Hits €2k
J. Fish, CLK, Bipolar, 4 of us €6k
All other acts €7k

Fixed stage w/PA, lighting rig (worked) etc for 3 days €9k

Security, advertising, licences, insurance, misc etc €12k

I am being very generous with some of the smaller acts, as they normally just get expenses. These acts usually do it to build their profile.

That comes in around €50k.

Food has a great mark-up, so whether there were private food stalls on site (which they would pay the organisers a fee) or the promoters were doing that themselves, there's great money to be made. Add on drink, beer sales etc and the profit starts to look good.
Most promoters dont make any money on their first festival, they do it to build their profile, get bigger acts, get more people in the door at a larger ticket price.

St Senan

Mod Note

Guys I said it before. Keep it civil. Attack the post not the poster.

Conas

scico rocks wrote: »

Hi, came across this post. Conas, where are you basing your figures from?
4,500 people at €12.50 is €56k (and change).
I've booked countless acts for Dublin, Cork colleges etc and local Cork Venues for ages so feel I am qualified to comment on this.

Jedward are receiving €8k for their upcoming Mullingar gig. Can't imagine they would have gotten more for New Ross.
Acts like Original Rudeboys, King Kong Company and possibly Smash Hits could have been offered €2/3k each. Jerry Fish, CLK, Bipolar Empire, Four of Us, Riptide Movement would averagely get a fee of €1/1.5k. There are exceptions to this of course (fees do vary from festival to festival - though not hugely). The music industry in Ireland is very small so a lot of promoters talk with each other.

So....
Jedward €8k
Rudeboys €3k
KKC €3k
Smash Hits €2k
J. Fish, CLK, Bipolar, 4 of us €6k
All other acts €7k

Fixed stage w/PA, lighting rig (worked) etc for 3 days €9k

Security, advertising, licences, insurance, misc etc €12k

I am being very generous with some of the smaller acts, as they normally just get expenses. These acts usually do it to build their profile.

That comes in around €50k.

Food has a great mark-up, so whether there were private food stalls on site (which they would pay the organisers a fee) or the promoters were doing that themselves, there's great money to be made. Add on drink, beer sales etc and the profit starts to look good.
Most promoters dont make any money on their first festival, they do it to build their profile, get bigger acts, get more people in the door at a larger ticket price.

But Jedward weren't going to be playing in front of 4,500 for €12.50. The max amount of tickets available for the New Ross show was only 1,500

You say the fixed stage and lighting for 3 days is 9K. The only outdoor concert was going to be Jedward's and the support acts, everything else was inside. Seems a bit much to go through the effort of erecting a stage, and lighting for a few hours, and then paying insurance, and security on top of it.

You mention beer as a good mark up, but just remember most of the 1,500 will be kids so you'll be making a loss if you ask me.

paudy

Conas wrote: »

scico rocks wrote: »

Hi, came across this post. Conas, where are you basing your figures from?
4,500 people at €12.50 is €56k (and change).
I've booked countless acts for Dublin, Cork colleges etc and local Cork Venues for ages so feel I am qualified to comment on this.

Jedward are receiving €8k for their upcoming Mullingar gig. Can't imagine they would have gotten more for New Ross.
Acts like Original Rudeboys, King Kong Company and possibly Smash Hits could have been offered €2/3k each. Jerry Fish, CLK, Bipolar Empire, Four of Us, Riptide Movement would averagely get a fee of €1/1.5k. There are exceptions to this of course (fees do vary from festival to festival - though not hugely). The music industry in Ireland is very small so a lot of promoters talk with each other.

So....
Jedward €8k
Rudeboys €3k
KKC €3k
Smash Hits €2k
J. Fish, CLK, Bipolar, 4 of us €6k
All other acts €7k

Fixed stage w/PA, lighting rig (worked) etc for 3 days €9k

Security, advertising, licences, insurance, misc etc €12k

I am being very generous with some of the smaller acts, as they normally just get expenses. These acts usually do it to build their profile.

That comes in around €50k.

Food has a great mark-up, so whether there were private food stalls on site (which they would pay the organisers a fee) or the promoters were doing that themselves, there's great money to be made. Add on drink, beer sales etc and the profit starts to look good.
Most promoters dont make any money on their first festival, they do it to build their profile, get bigger acts, get more people in the door at a larger ticket price.

But Jedward weren't going to be playing in front of 4,500 for €12.50. The max amount of tickets available for the New Ross show was only 1,500

You say the fixed stage and lighting for 3 days is 9K. The only outdoor concert was going to be Jedward's and the support acts, everything else was inside. Seems a bit much to go through the effort of erecting a stage, and lighting for a few hours, and then paying insurance, and security on top of it.

You mention beer as a good mark up, but just remember most of the 1,500 will be kids so you'll be making a loss if you ask me.

I think you will find conas and as it has been stated in the thread all ready;

All 3 concerts where to take place outdoors

Your arguments seem definatley to be flawed as you are posting a lot of wrong information.

Conas

paudy wrote: »

I think you will find conas and as it has been stated in the thread all ready;

All 3 concerts where to take place outdoors

Your arguments seem definatley to be flawed as you are posting a lot of wrong information.

How are they flawed? you said to me last night, where did I get my information from that the business was outside of town? and accused me that my argument was flawed then, and it was actually written by the festival organisers and not me.

People are throwing out these figures that Jedward were going to be playing to 4,500 people when it had been stated a long time ago that there was only going to be 1,500 tickets available. All I'm saying is, it was in the Docks's best interest not have to a concert outdoors to such a small crowd. The Family Day would have been blunder in my opinion, and that's why it was cancelled but everything else is going ahead indoors. Not to mention the stupidity of putting up a stage in a very bad and small carpark. If you wanted to use a capark, how about use the one that's across the road from the Dunbrody Famine Ship.

There is a very good reason as to why The Docks wanted to cancel the outdoor show, and a no name business is not the reason.

Bui Bolg73

@ Conas
You my friend are absolutely spot on- this whole thing is one big spoof but to be fair to Docks they have pulled off a major PR heist and fair play to them.

Accountancy is my background and the figures for this event never stacked up from the outset. Even the outdoor venue was limited in size so would have to be a 95%-100% sell out to come anywhere close to breakeven. That is the first anomaly in the whole saga, and I actually predicted that there would be a twist before the event would take place. Why would a private business risk its own capital to put on a so called "festival" with zero local authority funding to back it up on the basis of having to virtually sell out just to recoup the organising costs? Even the bloody weather is a risk factor this year let alone the finances of concert goers. Maybe in 2007/08 when the tiger roared the risk might have been worth it- in 2012 it would be financial suicide.

If Docks had received planning from the local authority and approval from local gardai what obsticle could any business or businesses put in the way to derail the event? If all red tape was negotiated then it would have been all systems go......provided you had the money to put the event on.........and you had decent in advance ticket sales to reduce your risk. You would hardly stump up approx €50k to set up an event and then hope to recoup all invested with walk in or on the day ticket sales? Not unless you were a total idiot is the answer.

To my mind the boys at Docks have played a stormer. They managed to brand the event "New Ross Summer Festival" spin some cock and bull derailment story by an unnamed business and what do they end up with:

1. Front page advertisements on local paper advertising their gig
2. All events (bar Jedward) going ahead anyway-indoors- at only the cost of the bands (no outdoor expenses)
3. A "festival" where Docks are now the sole beneficiary

Personally I reckon they have managed to pull off the stroke of the year and I actually applaude them for it as it shows real acumen in how to handle PR. Best of luck to them with it but anyone who has sympathy for them is economically naive. How have Docks lost in any way? They still have their event havent they? The only people who have lost are the people and businesses of New Ross who have been duped!! Wise up guys.............

Conas

Bui Bolg73 wrote: »

@ Conas
You my friend are absolutely spot on- this whole thing is one big spoof but to be fair to Docks they have pulled off a major PR heist and fair play to them.

Accountancy is my background and the figures for this event never stacked up from the outset. Even the outdoor venue was limited in size so would have to be a 95%-100% sell out to come anywhere close to breakeven. That is the first anomaly in the whole saga, and I actually predicted that there would be a twist before the event would take place. Why would a private business risk its own capital to put on a so called "festival" with zero local authority funding to back it up on the basis of having to virtually sell out just to recoup the organising costs? Even the bloody weather is a risk factor this year let alone the finances of concert goers. Maybe in 2007/08 when the tiger roared the risk might have been worth it- in 2012 it would be financial suicide.

If Docks had received planning from the local authority and approval from local gardai what obsticle could any business or businesses put in the way to derail the event? If all red tape was negotiated then it would have been all systems go......provided you had the money to put the event on.........and you had decent in advance ticket sales to reduce your risk. You would hardly stump up approx €50k to set up an event and then hope to recoup all invested with walk in or on the day ticket sales? Not unless you were a total idiot is the answer.

To my mind the boys at Docks have played a stormer. They managed to brand the event "New Ross Summer Festival" spin some cock and bull derailment story by an unnamed business and what do they end up with:

1. Front page advertisements on local paper advertising their gig
2. All events (bar Jedward) going ahead anyway-indoors- at only the cost of the bands (no outdoor expenses)
3. A "festival" where Docks are now the sole beneficiary

Personally I reckon they have managed to pull off the stroke of the year and I actually applaude them for it as it shows real acumen in how to handle PR. Best of luck to them with it but anyone who has sympathy for them is economically naive. How have Docks lost in any way? They still have their event havent they? The only people who have lost are the people and businesses of New Ross who have been duped!! Wise up guys.............

I've a background in nothing; because I'm a good for nothing pain in the ass. But I always carry with me common sense which I was thought well since birth. Now I think I'll take a walk down town to get something nice for myself in one of the scarred takeaways. Everyone was questioning me, but Bui Bolg is an expert accountant, and he has validated my earlier statements. I salute you sir. It was brilliant marketing ploy by The Docks, but they weren't going to pull the wool over my eyes and get away with it.

Sully

Bui Bolg73 wrote: »

@ Conas
You my friend are absolutely spot on- this whole thing is one big spoof but to be fair to Docks they have pulled off a major PR heist and fair play to them.

Accountancy is my background and the figures for this event never stacked up from the outset.

Even the outdoor venue was limited in size so would have to be a 95%-100% sell out to come anywhere close to breakeven. That is the first anomaly in the whole saga, and I actually predicted that there would be a twist before the event would take place. Why would a private business risk its own capital to put on a so called "festival" with zero local authority funding to back it up on the basis of having to virtually sell out just to recoup the organising costs? Even the bloody weather is a risk factor this year let alone the finances of concert goers. Maybe in 2007/08 when the tiger roared the risk might have been worth it- in 2012 it would be financial suicide.

As has been said before, a lot of festivals take a hit in their first year. I have been involved in a festival that was a similar setup to this but with multiple private businesses. No funding, no sponsor. They money was to be made on the sale of tickets. It didn't work out and they are in debt. I know of another festival that was hoping it could do the same, and it never worked out so they didn't do it again. Another festival involving Jedward by the Waterford Co Board also flopped, resulting in a 50k debt (this is in the press, so its public knowledge). Some strike it lucky, others don't.

If Docks had received planning from the local authority and approval from local gardai what obsticle could any business or businesses put in the way to derail the event? If all red tape was negotiated then it would have been all systems go......provided you had the money to put the event on.........and you had decent in advance ticket sales to reduce your risk. You would hardly stump up approx €50k to set up an event and then hope to recoup all invested with walk in or on the day ticket sales? Not unless you were a total idiot is the answer.

The first part I agree with. The second part, as I have shown earlier in this post, is how festivals go about their business. It might not make sense in the accountancy world, but its how it works for a lot of businesses (big investment, hoping on sales to re-coup and profit).

To my mind the boys at Docks have played a stormer. They managed to brand the event "New Ross Summer Festival" spin some cock and bull derailment story by an unnamed business and what do they end up with:

1. Front page advertisements on local paper advertising their gig
2. All events (bar Jedward) going ahead anyway-indoors- at only the cost of the bands (no outdoor expenses)
3. A "festival" where Docks are now the sole beneficiary

Personally I reckon they have managed to pull off the stroke of the year and I actually applaude them for it as it shows real acumen in how to handle PR. Best of luck to them with it but anyone who has sympathy for them is economically naive. How have Docks lost in any way? They still have their event havent they? The only people who have lost are the people and businesses of New Ross who have been duped!! Wise up guys.............

Its an interesting conspiracy that cant be proved. All I will say is that Jedward would have been booked, otherwise they had a big risk that Jedward would have been playing elsewhere or their manager stating they were not coming to the festival. Its unlikely they would have negotiated with them to deliberately pull out.

I know a music festival that had some setbacks, got great publicity (front page) in the local press and it didn't make a difference to their sales.

Plenty of festivals are based around local businesses. The original Tra Fest in Tramore was in many local businesses. The Bluegrass Festival in Tramore was based around a hotel and some pubs. Its not that uncommon.

allthedoyles

How could any local business person / lay person be of the opinion that it is in the best interest of New Ross to name / shame a local business .

New Ross Traders Association are behind this campaign to name and shame . ( really surprised at this )

In order to put this controversy to bed , it would be best if independent verification was obtained to confirm if the organisers of New Ross Summer Festival are telling the truth or not .

Conas

allthedoyles wrote: »

How could any local business person / lay person be of the opinion that it is in the best interest of New Ross to name / shame a local business .

New Ross Traders Association are behind this campaign to name and shame . ( really surprised at this )

In order to put this controversy to bed , it would be best if independent verification was obtained to confirm if the organisers of New Ross Summer Festival are telling the truth or not .

Not true at all. You misread what they said entirely, they called for no so such thing.

"It has come to our Attention that Cllr. Michael Sheehan and Cllr. John Dwyer have been making as what can only be described as inflammatory remarks, against some of New Ross businesses. You are calling for a name and shame policy regarding who is responsible for the cancellation of the proposed New Ross Summer festival at the docks. And have decided that New Ross businesses are guilty “as Usual”. We would advise you to ask the docks management to name and shame they believe to be responsible for the “deliberate and consistent attempt from a small section of the New Ross Business community to derail the event and stop it in its tracks”.

It was actually Cllr. Michael Sheehan and Cllr. John Dwyer who were calling for the name and shame policy, and the traders association told them to ask The Docks who is responsible.

Sully

Mod Note

Businesses who wish to post on Boards must speak with the Community Managers at hello@boards.ie if they wish to engage on any forum on this website. That is part of the Terms and Conditions we all agreed to on using this site. The mods have no say in who does or does not get such accounts. It is done to validate the business to ensure they are who they say they are (preventing any legal issues in the event we let a randomer claim to be someone and it turned out they were not) and ensure that if its a for-profit business and they are using Boards purely for financial gain that they pay to use the service and within certain rules as Boards is not a service that is cheap nor free to run. They have bills just like any other business, and its very expensive operation.

I would hope that other businesses would understand this. We want to ensure that both sides get a say in this argument, but both sides must be fair and not pretend to be someone independent with no connections to the festival when posting here either for or against. Shilling in the form of sock puppetry, again for or against, is also against the site rules and we have systems in place to detect such abuse taking place on the forum and are aware of such ongoing on this forum and action will be taken once confirmed.

Any problems, or questions, just send me a PM on the subject. But I wanted to remind everyone of above so that it stops right now and does not continue.

Thanks.

allthedoyles

We would advise you to ask the docks management to name and shame who they believe to be responsible for the “deliberate and consistent attempt from a small section of the New Ross Business community to derail the event and stop it in its tracks

It was actually Cllr. Michael Sheehan and Cllr. John Dwyer who were calling for the name and shame policy, and the traders association told them to ask The Docks who is responsible

So a local business organisation asks the local public representatives to establish and name the business behind the decision to cancel.

So who is behind this campaign again ?

Conas

allthedoyles wrote: »

So a local business organisation asks the local public representatives to establish and name the business behind the decision to cancel.

So who is behind this campaign again ?

Well I've read what the Traders Association have said differently to you. They first off demanded an apology from Michael Sheehan and John Dwyer for wanting a name and shame policy, because they were upset that the two lads were blaming all local business's, by saying they were "guilty as usual", so the traders association told them instead of speculating ask The Docks who was the blame. I don't think by saying that they were spearheading any campaign, I think they were upset that local business's were being blamed for something they didn't do.

Bui Bolg73

allthedoyles wrote: »

How could any local business person / lay person be of the opinion that it is in the best interest of New Ross to name / shame a local business .

New Ross Traders Association are behind this campaign to name and shame . ( really surprised at this )

In order to put this controversy to bed , it would be best if independent verification was obtained to confirm if the organisers of New Ross Summer Festival are telling the truth or not .

What about this theory- There is NO ONE to name or shame- this is a story fabricated by Docks as a smoke screen to try to divert attention away from the fact that they made a mess of organising their event and rather than accepting the blame for that decided to blame a name less business. This had 2 positive effects for Docks-

1. Took the heat off them from any ticket holders for having to cancel Jedward and also change the venue from outdoor to indoor for other acts
2. Generated huge publicity for the overall event

Why won't Docks come out and say who tried to "derail" the event? The answer is because NO ONE tried.