New Ross - Proposed "Docks Hotel Festival" and guess who? JEDWARD! AGAIN! (MOD NOTE)

Sully

Maybe I am being harsh but this sounds like a lame duck committee. How does one business manage to overturn a festival that has the support of a lot of other businesses? In fact, how does an out-of-town business have so much influence over the organizers? Bar maybe pulling out as a sponsor I can't see how its cancelled.

Though re-running Jedward repeatedly seems a bit daft. It didn't work to well over this side of the country and I think its because they play everywhere all the time.

Conas

Sully wrote: »

Maybe I am being harsh but this sounds like a lame duck committee. How does one business manage to overturn a festival that has the support of a lot of other businesses? In fact, how does an out-of-town business have so much influence over the organizers? Bar maybe pulling out as a sponsor I can't see how its cancelled.

Though re-running Jedward repeatedly seems a bit daft. It didn't work to well over this side of the country and I think its because they play everywhere all the time.

It's not any committee, because the New Ross Traders Assocation have come out and stated that they had not one complaint filed with them.

Last night I was just thinking about the whole thing, and that's when I started thinking about the cost of what the Family Day would be on the Docks, and to be honest I can see it being nothing but a loss for them.

First off the tickets were limited to just 1,500 people at €12.50 each. So from ticket sales alone they would have brought in €18,750. Now I'm sure the fee for just Jedward would be about that if not more. Plus Jedward play to on average 10,000 people a show at about €25 a ticket, double what the Docks were charging. Plus you have the support acts to pay for. Then you have to factor in that they would have had to erect a stage for just one show which would cost a fair bit, then you'd have to organise and pay for the sound and lighting outside. Then you'd have to probaly rent barriers to block off the street, get extra security. All this adds up big time. Also most people at the Jedward show are going to be kids, so the Docks would be losing money on drinks aswell, because they would sell no alcohol hardly. To be honest for the sake of one outdoor concert, the cost seems pretty high.

I'd say when the Docks were talking about losing €10,000 maybe they would have lost that from the family day.

McLoughlin

Conas wrote: »

It's not any committee, because the New Ross Traders Assocation have come out and stated that they had not one complaint filed with them.

Last night I was just thinking about the whole thing, and that's when I started thinking about the cost of what the Family Day would be on the Docks, and to be honest I can see it being nothing but a loss for them.

First off the tickets were limited to just 1,500 people at €12.50 each. So from ticket sales alone they would have brought in €18,750. Now I'm sure the fee for just Jedward would be about that if not more. Plus Jedward play to on average 10,000 people a show at about €25 a ticket, double what the Docks were charging. Plus you have the support acts to pay for. Then you have to factor in that they would have had to erect a stage for just one show which would cost a fair bit, then you'd have to organise and pay for the sound and lighting outside. Then you'd have to probaly rent barriers to block off the street, get extra security. All this adds up big time. Also most people at the Jedward show are going to be kids, so the Docks would be losing money on drinks aswell, because they would sell no alcohol hardly. To be honest for the sake of one outdoor concert, the cost seems pretty high.

I'd say when the Docks were talking about losing €10,000 maybe they would have lost that from the family day.

Add on top of that Public Liabilty Insurance for an event I think they had a great idea but pulled out the moent they realised that they would lose money if it went ahead.

Conas

McLoughlin wrote: »

Add on top of that Public Liabilty Insurance for an event I think they had a great idea but pulled out the moent they realised that they would lose money if it went ahead.

Exactly, and to be honest the maths just don't add up. So instead of admitting this the docks thought they'd blame some local nameless business, and hope that people would accept it, and that it'd blow over. But sadly for them it's backfired in their face big time, because when the New Ross Standard went out last Tuesday and thousands of people like myself read their statement, it was blatantly obvious they were pointing the finger at a business in the town from the way it was written. Look I'll put it this way the docks aren't going to come out and say 'eh we made a mistake by hiring probaly the most expensive act in the country for just 1,500 people, at €12.50 a ticket, not to mention the overheads that would have to be paid", but they put themselves into a smaller box by saying it's someone out of the town, and that don't have a business in the town :rolleyes:

beardedmaster

Was never going to go to it.. not my cupán tae at all at all. Had no problem with it of course, sure if it's good for the town all the better.

But it's certainly the most scandalous and talked about topic in the Standard for a while I'd say!

Conas

beardedmaster wrote: »

Was never going to go to it.. not my cupán tae at all at all. Had no problem with it of course, sure if it's good for the town all the better.

But it's certainly the most scandalous and talked about topic in the Standard for a while I'd say!

Couple of interesting points made at the festival's facebook page yesterday too:

"We would like to express our heartfelt thanks to the retailers that have come forward offering support over the last few days and it proves to us that there is a vibrant and determined business community in New Ross. This community holds to key to New Ross's future and it is their vision as is ours to build New Ross into a town that can hold its head high and make it a favoured destination for tourists. ".

Serious amount of ass kissing going on here. I'd say the Docks phone has been ringing non stop over the last few days, with calls from local retailers giving them an ear full. Since the Saturday and Sunday shows are all at night time inside the docks, the retailers will gain nothing, and have no reason to offer any support whatsoever. It's just going to be like any normal Bank Holiday weekend, with two nights of entertainment. The Docks seem to be backpeddaling big time, and trying to play nice. But when you think of it thousands of people read the front page of the standard this week, and it was an insult to the traders of New Ross who did nothing wrong as it seems, and they can never retract what they said fully.

New Ross Traders Association also posted a comment on Facebook:

FAO: Michael Sheehan & John Dwyer
It has come to our Attention that Cllr. Michael Sheehan and Cllr. John Dwyer have been making as what can only be described as inflammatory remarks, against some of New Ross businesses. You are calling for a name and shame policy regarding who is responsible for the cancellation of the proposed New Ross Summer festival at the docks. And have decided that New Ross... businesses are guilty “as Usual”. We would advise you to ask the docks management to name and shame they believe to be responsible for the “deliberate and consistent attempt from a small section of the New Ross Business community to derail the event and stop it in its tracks”

We are also demanding an apology from Cllr. Michael Sheehan and Cllr. John Dwyer and would remind you, that you are both public representatives and should be have accordingly not used “pub Talk “on the social media network.


Well I'm going to give these two guys the benefit of the doubt, because I think their excellent representatives for the New Ross area, and there was no pub talk on their part, just giving their honest opinion, the same way everyone else has done. Nobody can help that their was a false statement made and printed in the local newspaper only the people that made it, and anyway if people don't like a business in Ross then say it out, provided they word it in an honest and fair way, nobody should being taking offense. All business's in the country are open to praise and criticism if deemed necessary.

Sully

Conas wrote: »

It's not any committee, because the New Ross Traders Assocation have come out and stated that they had not one complaint filed with them.

Well they didn't stop it for the craic and blame "one" business. So this "committee" or whoever the **** they are seem a complete shambles and disaster to let one business spoil the party.

Last night I was just thinking about the whole thing, and that's when I started thinking about the cost of what the Family Day would be on the Docks, and to be honest I can see it being nothing but a loss for them.

First off the tickets were limited to just 1,500 people at €12.50 each. So from ticket sales alone they would have brought in €18,750. Now I'm sure the fee for just Jedward would be about that if not more. Plus Jedward play to on average 10,000 people a show at about €25 a ticket, double what the Docks were charging. Plus you have the support acts to pay for. Then you have to factor in that they would have had to erect a stage for just one show which would cost a fair bit, then you'd have to organise and pay for the sound and lighting outside. Then you'd have to probaly rent barriers to block off the street, get extra security. All this adds up big time. Also most people at the Jedward show are going to be kids, so the Docks would be losing money on drinks aswell, because they would sell no alcohol hardly. To be honest for the sake of one outdoor concert, the cost seems pretty high.

I'd say when the Docks were talking about losing €10,000 maybe they would have lost that from the family day.

Jedward played in the South East twice this summer, both venues lost out financially one significantly. Just because they are popular doesn't mean they will pull in crowds - Jedward are everywhere. They have a small following that can afford to visit them everywhere, but it wont be enough to make up the gap.

Conas

Sully wrote: »

Well they didn't stop it for the craic and blame "one" business. So this "committee" or whoever the **** they are seem a complete shambles and disaster to let one business spoil the party.

Jedward played in the South East twice this summer, both venues lost out financially one significantly. Just because they are popular doesn't mean they will pull in crowds - Jedward are everywhere. They have a small following that can afford to visit them everywhere, but it wont be enough to make up the gap.

Like I said, I think they stopped it because it would have made a loss, especially when you factor in the overheads. I mean look at the hassle they put on themselves for the sake of one outdoor show? If your going to go through the effort of setting up a stage, barriers, sound, lighting, then your best run everything outside over the two days. Not just the family day of 1,500, that's only going to last a few hours.

It wasn't a committee that objected, it was a business outside of town. It's nonsense, I'm not convinced at all. Seems like an excuse. They aren't going to come out and say they didn't plan the Family day right, which would make them look bad. They tried to do it like the Strawberry Festival, or Dunbrody Festival in that kind of mold anyway. But the thing is there just isn't enough space in that car park, to get in a good volume of people to make it profitable. Plus the Docks would sell very little alcohol because a lot of the 1,500 at Jedward will be kids, so that's another big loss.

Nypd

The statement says a local business not involved in retail !

Is it just me or have I a different take on the meaning of that, is there a business in that area that doesn't sell stuff ?

Conas

Nypd wrote: »

The statement says a local business not involved in retail !

Is it just me or have I a different take on the meaning of that, is there a business in that area that doesn't sell stuff ?

Yeah a guy called Johnny GotNoBusiness is a registered retailer in town that dosen't sell anything. I'm guessing it was him. I've finally cracked it.

bruschi

Nypd wrote: »

The statement says a local business not involved in retail !

Is it just me or have I a different take on the meaning of that, is there a business in that area that doesn't sell stuff ?

thats what I thought too. it doesnt say its a business out of town.

not sure why some on here are going so overboard in criticising the management of the docks when they dont know the full story themselves. I dont know what happened either, but I'm not going to go around making stuff up on guesses and trying to make something out of nothing.

Conas

bruschi wrote: »

thats what I thought too. it doesnt say its a business out of town.

not sure why some on here are going so overboard in criticising the management of the docks when they dont know the full story themselves. I dont know what happened either, but I'm not going to go around making stuff up on guesses and trying to make something out of nothing.

Nobody is criticising the Docks in a harsh or unfair manner. I actually felt sorry for them when I read the article in the paper. But when they issued a statement on Facebook, I found a lot of discrepancies that people have every right to question. They hurt the reputation of the down town retailers in New Ross, and then tried to back track big time because they knew they were wrong. I'm sorry but this is unacceptable behaviour. In these difficult times you should be supporting business's around you, but you don't go and insult them, and accuse them of sabotaging your festival, and screwing you out of €10,000. When in reality they did nothing wrong.

The reality and truth seems to be the Docks made a self-inflicted blunder with the Family Day themselves. Of course they know the full story how can they not? The only thing is they aren't going to come out and tell people the truth.

bruschi

Conas wrote: »

Nobody is criticising the Docks in a harsh or unfair manner. I actually felt sorry for them when I read the article in the paper. But when they issued a statement on Facebook, I found a lot of discrepancies that people have every right to question. They hurt the reputation of the down town retailers in New Ross, and then tried to back track big time because they knew they were wrong. I'm sorry but this is unacceptable behaviour. In these difficult times you should be supporting business's around you, but you don't go and insult them, and accuse them of sabotaging your festival, and screwing you out of €10,000. When in reality they did nothing wrong.

The reality and truth seems to be the Docks made a self-inflicted blunder with the Family Day themselves. Of course they know the full story how can they not? The only thing is they aren't going to come out and tell people the truth.

but you dont know that. you are only guessing that. they obviously do know, and until they come out and say the truth then we wont know. you say they came out and insulted other businesses, but are you not doing the same to them by making assumptions about the situation?

Conas

bruschi wrote: »

but you dont know that. you are only guessing that. they obviously do know, and until they come out and say the truth then we wont know. you say they came out and insulted other businesses, but are you not doing the same to them by making assumptions about the situation?

It's not guessing at all. I've given a good explanation as to what I think happened, which makes a lot more sense than saying a small sub section of the business community ruined the festival, then saying it wasn't a business in the town, it was a business that don't retail, and are located outside it. Which to me isn't very believable at all. There isn't a hope in hell that it should have cancelled the outdoor show. Then in order to win back the local retailers respect The Docks resort to posting ass kissing messages. You accuse me of maing assumptions, which is entirely fallacious, because all I'm doing is commenting on stuff that's in the public domain. There a big difference in insulting someone, than offering an opinion. I'm doing the latter, and I'm willing to have a healthy in depth debate, without resorting to being nasty.

bruschi

Conas wrote: »

It's not guessing at all. I've given a good explanation as to what I think happened, which makes a lot more sense than saying a small sub section of the business community ruined the festival, then saying it wasn't a business in the town, it was a business that don't retail, and are located outside it. Which to me isn't very believable at all. There isn't a hope in hell that it should have cancelled the outdoor show. Then in order to win back the local retailers respect The Docks resort to posting ass kissing messages. You accuse me of maing assumptions, which is entirely fallacious, because all I'm doing is commenting on stuff that's in the public domain. There a big difference in insulting someone, than offering an opinion. I'm doing the latter, and I'm willing to have a healthy in depth debate, without resorting to being nasty.

being honest, I dont really care that much to have a debate about it, but the above highlighted bits amuse me in their irony.

Conas

No you are absolutely wrong. There is a big difference in "guessing" and "thinking". If I was "guessing" about The Docks situation I'd being saying random off the cuff stuff with nothing much to back me up, but when I'm "thinking" at least I'm being thoughtful of the situation, and trying to break it down with reasoning and logic.

The Docks had a limit of 1,500 tickets at €12.50, this isn't guessing this is fact.

Jedward are an expensive act to book, no doubt about it. Two other venues had made a loss, and they were playing to even a bigger crowds than what they'd be playing to at The Docks, and they would also have to pay the support acts. This isn't guessing this is fact

The Docks would have had to erect a stage for just one show over a few hours, then that would be it. Seems like a lot of hassle for the sake of 1,500 people. This isn't guessing, this is fact.

They would have to get some lighting, and sound for the outdoor show. Not forgetting that it's only going to be for a few hours, to a small crowd of 1,500. This isn't guessing this is fact.

The Docks specialise in alcoholic beverages, and since most of the 1,500 are going to be kids, there are going to sell very little alcohol. This isn't guessing this is fact.

So yes I am thinking but at least there is logic in what I'm saying, but I'm certainly not guessing. The maths simply don't add up to me. If they add up to you, and you see it differently then by all means explain it to me.

daddy_boy

i seem to remember hearing that jedward where paid €20,000 last year for there appearance in the town park, cant remember where i heard it

Conas

daddy_boy wrote: »

i seem to remember hearing that jedward where paid €20,000 last year for there appearance in the town park, cant remember where i heard it

So if it was the same this year, then the docks are at a loss from the start. €18,750 is what they'd get from the ticket sales provided all the 1,500 sold.

paudy

Conas, you seem to have a lot of information. Where have you got this from?

bernardo mac

Hiring Jedward for a Festival is one way of downgrading the event

Conas

paudy wrote: »

Conas, you seem to have a lot of information. Where have you got this from?

By being thoughtful.

paudy

Conas wrote: »

paudy wrote: »

Conas, you seem to have a lot of information. Where have you got this from?

By being thoughtful.

Was all that info public knowledge is what I was implying?

Conas

paudy wrote: »

Was all that info public knowledge is what I was implying?

It's my knowledge, and it's up to someone to tell me what I'm saying is utterly fallcious or that I'm actually right. The onus is on you to tell me what points you don't agree with and why.

paudy

Conas wrote: »

paudy wrote: »

Was all that info public knowledge is what I was implying?

It's my knowledge, and it's up to someone to tell me what I'm saying is utterly fallcious or that I'm actually right. The onus is on you to tell me what points you don't agree with and why.

So in other words your guessing

allthedoyles

Conas wrote: »

So if it was the same this year, then the docks are at a loss from the start. €18,750 is what they'd get from the ticket sales provided all the 1,500 sold.

I for one , would disagree with the ' Conas ' scenario .........There is more to organising a Festival than ticket sales .

Money must be generated from other sources , like sponsors , contributions from local business/ Town Councils , sales during the festival , etc etc .

And Conas , you said in earlier posts that there should be no speculating , but yet you continue to speculate with your thinking cap on .

Start seeing the wood from the trees .

McLoughlin

paudy wrote: »

So in other words your guessing

Conas isn't guessing those are common facts when it comes to organising an event. A one day one off event is really expensive with lighting,sound, event staff, insurance and artist hire.

Conas

paudy wrote: »

So in other words your guessing

This is absurd. I've put out a reasonable argument. It's no where near guessing. Now instead of going off topic, and discussing me why don't you discuss the points that have been made, and lets see what your opinion is. Since you only have a few posts on boards.ie and have made little contribution to the content of this thread, I'm very interested in hearing what you have to say.

Nypd

Conas wrote: »

No you are absolutely wrong. There is a big difference in "guessing" and "thinking". If I was "guessing" about The Docks situation I'd being saying random off the cuff stuff with nothing much to back me up, but when I'm "thinking" at least I'm being thoughtful of the situation, and trying to break it down with reasoning and logic.

The Docks had a limit of 1,500 tickets at €12.50, this isn't guessing this is fact.

Jedward are an expensive act to book, no doubt about it. Two other venues had made a loss, and they were playing to even a bigger crowds than what they'd be playing to at The Docks, and they would also have to pay the support acts. This isn't guessing this is fact

The Docks would have had to erect a stage for just one show over a few hours, then that would be it. Seems like a lot of hassle for the sake of 1,500 people. This isn't guessing, this is fact.

They would have to get some lighting, and sound for the outdoor show. Not forgetting that it's only going to be for a few hours, to a small crowd of 1,500. This isn't guessing this is fact.

The Docks specialise in alcoholic beverages, and since most of the 1,500 are going to be kids, there are going to sell very little alcohol. This isn't guessing this is fact.

So yes I am thinking but at least there is logic in what I'm saying, but I'm certainly not guessing. The maths simply don't add up to me. If they add up to you, and you see it differently then by all means explain it to me.

You are basing your arguments on a price you think Jedward goes for.
I would have thought the area were it was being held would hold more than 1500.

You seem to be forgetting to mention that there was 3 different gigs, your argument seems very flawed.

paudy

Conas wrote: »

paudy wrote: »

So in other words your guessing

This is absurd. I've put out a reasonable argument. It's no where near guessing. Now instead of going off topic, and discussing me why don't you discuss the points that have been made, and lets see what your opinion is. Since you only have a few posts on boards.ie and have made little contribution to the content of this thread, I'm very interested in hearing what you have to say.

"FACT" a thing that is indisputably the case

Unless you have inside info most of your "facts" are pure guess work.

Conas

allthedoyles wrote: »

I for one , would disagree with the ' Conas ' scenario .........There is more to organising a Festival than ticket sales.

I know, and I wasn't only commenting on the ticket sales if you read all my posts. The matter of stage, sound, lighting, barriers, security, and Insurance have all been brought up. Don't understand what you mean.

allthedoyles wrote: »

Money must be generated from other sources , like sponsors , contributions from local business/ Town Councils , sales during the festival , etc etc.

Exactly which makes it all the more likely it was The Docks's fault from the start, but they decided to blame a sub section of the business community which is why were having this debate.

allthedoyles wrote: »

And Conas , you said in earlier posts that there should be no speculating , but yet you continue to speculate with your thinking cap on .

Start seeing the wood from the trees .

Like I said the onus is on you to tell me what I said that you don't agree with. Clearly you can't see the wood from the trees, because instead of breaking down my individual points, and answering them you say stop speculating, but where are my answers?