Water fluoridation should be scrapped!

Worztron

Pushtrak wrote: »

I'm assuming the best, that scaremongering isn't your intent. I will say though, you don't really have much credibility at the moment. It is like a young earth creationist citing answers in genesis. Do better.

Don't you dare compare me to a young earth creationist. I don't believe in that BS.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

I am not scaremongering.

Why is water fluoridation used so little in the majority of developed countries?

Because it increases business for dentists?? I don't know! We should make decisions based on the pros and cons of fluoridation, not just what the other kids in the yard are doing...

At the end of the day, if you can afford the dentist bills, you can afford to buy bottled water.

Worztron

My name is URL wrote: »

Nah, he's right about making claims regarding the health effects of fluoride. It totally weakens the argument for discontinuing the process.

It's been done here for 60 years.. Do you know a single person who has had any illness which was linked to fluoride?

If is was so great - EVERY developed country would have it implemented.

My name is URL

Worztron wrote: »

If is was so great - EVERY developed country would have it implemented.

Hey, I never said anything about it being great!

It may have been a great idea 50 odd years ago when foodstuffs and other fluoride containing items weren't so widely available, but it's in pretty much everything now, so imo there's no need to add it to the water.

Here's a list of stuff which contains fluorides, and the amounts within - http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Fluoride/fluoride.pdf

It's in bottled water too btw. It occurs naturally in most water souces.

Pushtrak

Worztron wrote: »

Don't you dare compare me to a young earth creationist. I don't believe in that BS.

I could have substituted many things in their place, such as vaccine denialism, UFO abductions, big foot, telepathy or a number of other things. The important point I was going for was not the specific idea but rather that if you want to try to bring people around to a way of thinking, that was of thinking has to be sound. And you have to present it in a sound way, with sound sources. There can be a discussion on this, yes, but I'd rather avoid the FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) type propaganda. Serves no purpose.

Stompbox

Worztron wrote: »

If is was so great - EVERY developed country would have it implemented.

If I recall correctly, Ireland was the first nation (one of them anyway) to introduce the smoking ban. By your logic, it should never have been implemented at all.

charlemont

charlemont wrote: »

Ireland uses fluoride=Ireland lowest IQ in EU..

If you're getting the "lowest iq in Europe" thing from that book "IQ and the Wealth of Nations" you should know that it has been widely debunked.

Capt'n Midnight

Ripper:

Ah, naah. We're ok here. Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridated water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream? Ice cream, Mandrake. Children's ice cream?

Mandrake:

Good Lord.

Ripper:

You know when fluoridation first began?

Mandrake:

No. No, I don't, Jack. No.

Ripper:

Nineteen hundred and forty six. Nineteen fortysix, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your postwar commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard core commie works.

Mandrake:

Jack... Jack, listen, tell me, ah... when did you first become, well, develop this theory.

Ripper:

Well, I ah, I I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.

Mandrake:

sighs fearfully

Ripper:

Yes a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

Mandrake:

Yes...

RiRipper:

I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women... women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake, but I do deny them my essence.

Mandrake:

Heh heh... yes.

The real problem is women steeling your essence if you avoid them then fluoride isn't a problem

Worztron

Stompbox wrote: »

If I recall correctly, Ireland was the first nation (one of them anyway) to introduce the smoking ban. By your logic, it should never have been implemented at all.

That is a straw man.
Passive smoking is harmful, I am in full agreement with that ban. We can live perfectly healthy without water fluoridation - ask the Germans.

Siuin

Worztron wrote: »

Fluoride, or Hydrofluorosilic acid that is put into tap water is a waste by-product derived from the industrial manufacture of aerosols, aluminium, fertilizers, insecticides, lubricants, pharmaceuticals, plastics, uranium and zinc.

If you're in a half decent relationship, you'll be swallowing this on a regular basis anyway

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

We can live perfectly healthy without water fluoridation - ask the Germans.

So are you saying it doesn't help prevent tooth decay or are you saying people should use other methods to prevent it?

6 month check ups are great if you can afford them, but I for one haven't been able to afford to go to the dentist for a few years now... People wont die without fluoride, but if it's helping some people and there's no reports of it harming us what's the problem?

Worztron

true-or-false wrote: »

So are you saying it doesn't help prevent tooth decay or are you saying people should use other methods to prevent it?

6 month check ups are great if you can afford them, but I for one haven't been able to afford to go to the dentist for a few years now... People wont die without fluoride, but if it's helping some people and there's no reports of it harming us what's the problem?

If you want to prevent tooth decay - brush your teeth twice daily, floss, minimise sugar etc.

I'd much rather drink plain tap water.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

I'd much rather drink plain tap water.

How is "what you'd rather" a reason to get rid of fluoride?

I'm sure my teeth wouldn't see a huge difference if water wasn't fluoridated, but I just don't see any reasons why not.

Worztron

true-or-false wrote: »

I'm sure my teeth wouldn't see a huge difference if water wasn't fluoridated, but I just don't see any reasons why not.

Well you've just hit the nail on the head there.

Then what is the reason for?

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

Well you've just hit the nail on the head there.

Then what is the reason for?

Because it helps. Better safe than sorry. While it wont make the difference between hollywood smile and toothless grin, some people benefit, so why not?
Still though, after all this thread you haven't actually given an argument for stopping.

Pushtrak

Worztron wrote: »

Well you've just hit the nail on the head there.

Then what is the reason for?

Except...

Worztron

true-or-false wrote: »

Because it helps. Better safe than sorry. While it wont make the difference between hollywood smile and toothless grin, some people benefit, so why not?
Still though, after all this thread you haven't actually given an argument for stopping.

Read back over my posts. The poll begs to differ with you.

partyatmygaff

Worztron wrote: »

Hydroxide, or dihydrogen monoxide (Because an ion and its parent molecule are the same thing obviously) that is found in tap water is a waste by-product derived from the industrial manufacture of ammonia, sulfuric acid, pharmaceuticals and insecticides. It's even a byproduct of human/animal/plant respiration and excretion!

Look at how much dangerous stuff this chemical is involved in. Let's ban it quick before the government starts using it to control our minds!

fyp

Pushtrak

Worztron wrote: »

Read back over my posts. The poll begs to differ with you.

Even if this poll had three times as many going your way and that was to be a point you would use to defend it, that would be the logical fallacy of argument ad populum. But even at that, you don't actually have this.

Your approach is flawed. Instead of trying to say that there are no benefits, which has been documented as being erroneous, try pointing out the risks. Oh, the risks are too much fluoridation. Yes, a case can be made about risks involved when this is brought up. But, by the same token, it can actually be harmful for people to have too much cod liver oil, or any medication they need to be on. Should we not use medicine because of the risks?

Worztron

partyatmygaff wrote: »

fyp

No, you just made up stuff. Stop fabricating things I've not posted.

zenno

Deleted User wrote: »

Fluoride prevents tooth decay.

There's no proof this is the case. Get that gunk out of the water. :eek:

Worztron

Pushtrak wrote: »

Even if this poll had three times as many going your way and that was to be a point you would use to defend it, that would be the logical fallacy of argument ad populum. But even at that, you don't actually have this.

Your approach is flawed. Instead of trying to say that there are no benefits, which has been documented as being erroneous, try pointing out the risks. Oh, the risks are too much fluoridation. Yes, a case can be made about risks involved when this is brought up. But, by the same token, it can actually be harmful for people to have too much cod liver oil, or any medication they need to be on. Should we not use medicine because of the risks?

We need water to live - we can live without cod liver oil. Your cod liver oil argument is a straw man.

Pushtrak

zenno wrote: »

There's no proof this is the case. Get that gunk out of the water. :eek:

Oh is that a fact sir?

Pushtrak

Worztron wrote: »

We need water to live - we can live without cod liver oil. Your cod liver oil argument is a straw man.

Honestly, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E

You really don't understand what a straw man is. Or an analogy, obviously. I'll try explain this again. Something that works in small doses but may have risks in larger doses is good to use in small doses. If you keep trotting out straw man and not coming up with a good argument, I'll be done. I was hoping you'd reach beyond the analogy I used earlier of bad arguments. You have yet to do so.

Ficheall

BigBabyTaylor wrote: »

I would think that the dangers you are warning about are only if you take the chemicals straight and a lot of them. Where as if its mixed in with a reservoir of drinking water its very diluted.

You clearly weren't paying attention during homeopathy class...

partyatmygaff

zenno wrote: »

There's no proof this is the case. Get that gunk out of the water. :eek:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=fluoride%20dental%20erosion

There's a far bit of evidence there.

Worztron

Pushtrak wrote: »

But, by the same token, it can actually be harmful for people to have too much cod liver oil, or any medication they need to be on. Should we not use medicine because of the risks?

What a brainsick argument.

I cannot afford bottled water. I have no choice but to drink fluoridated water. But people do have a choice not to take too much cod liver oil or other meds, etc.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mcql0_aOKs4/TyHcfuIxIRI/AAAAAAAAA0w/kB1MdZw7M1k/s1600/Facepalm.jpg

Pushtrak

Again, Something that works in small doses but may have risks in larger doses is good to use in small doses. If you want to be taken seriously, you'll need to rebut... Something. But you don't have firm ground here. The evidence so far is clear. There will be more studies done on the issue, that's for sure. Maybe with more studies something will come out to vindicate your assumptions. Until then, this thread is just going to on and on into irrelevance.

phantom_lord

You posted in the wrong forum op, here's where you meant to go

Parsley

EU limits for fluoride ions in water is less than one part per million. Yes, for every million molecules of H2O in your tap water, there isn't even one fluoride ion. This is checked pretty goddamn regularly too. Utterly miniscule from a toxicity point of view, but potentially beficial for teeth.

And as for hydrofluorosilicic acid being manufactured as the waste product of whatever stuff you listed, I worked briefly for the company that makes 95% of the country's water treatment chemicals, in the quality analysis lab, analysing the quality of this compound you seem to think is a load of muck shovelled from reactor beds. There are extremely strict guidelines for the quality/purity/acidity etc. of the samples.

tl;dr - OP doesn't know what's really going on and has been duped by paranoid conspiracy theories. Keep drinking tap water.