The Germans

Dyr

Fuinseog wrote: »

Germany has perpetrated and suffered more wars than any other country in Europe.
they have been working towards European cooperation more than any other country and the German taxpayer bares the brunt of this.

For the Germans Europe is a chance to work together, for us its cash cow, for the Brits just another enemy.
if Germany had problems we would not give a fiddlers fart yet they are expected to come to our aid when we piss away all our money.

Ach Herr Goebbels, so glad that you could join us :P

prinz

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I mean watching them like hawks so they don't start yet another massive militarisation of the country and start going all lebensraum again.

I don't think you know that many Germans tbh. They really are just itching to 'go all lebensraum' again. They never get tired of the stories of their grandparents and greatgrandparents who were killed, raped, lost family members, suffered lifelong mental scarring. There's nothing to make you more interested in remilitarisation than hearing about how your teenage grandmother was gangraped by Soviet troops etc or how you never stayed overnight at your grandparents house because your grandfather suffered nightmares constantly and would wake up screaming during the night up to his dying days?

Do you realise the only member of NATO with a smaller percentage of the active labour force engaged in military/defence employment than Germany is mighty Luxembourg?

You know it's only in the last 5-10 years that Germans have actually really started being proud to be German when it comes to embracing your nationality during competitions like the Euros? It's only in the last few years it became common to fly a German flag especially during World Cup 2006. What makes you think a people who are still at times uneasy about waving their own flag during matches at the Euros are somehow ready to support expansionism? I was on to my OH last night and she's over there at the moment. She was out watching the match last night, and telling, as someone in her late 20's, that it felt kind of strange to hear cars beeping their horn and people celebrating in the German colours after the win. This nonsense that the Germans are only itching to dominate the world is total rubbish.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Their heavily armed friends and neighbours still feel it prudent to keep an eye on them.....

You mean like Denmark who spend more per capita on military and defence than Germany does?

Shenshen

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Hi peasant,

Maybe i'm explaining myself badly or something, but your rebuff is basically the point i thought i had made.
They were barred from having any military of note, the bar was lifted (i thought a good bit more recently than the 50's but hey, every day is a school day!). Their heavily armed friends and neighbours still feel it prudent to keep an eye on them.....

I'm struggling to see were the hostility and tin foil hat bollox is coming from to be honest

They were not barred.
They didn't want one. The allies requested them to have one, include it in the constitution right when it was written, Germany refused.
It was only after continued pressure from the US and the UK that Germany re-instated a military.
These days, if you let them, they would abandon it altogether again. Most Germans hate the thought of having a military.

Toby Take a Bow

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Of course it is, all those ones are dead!
But no matter what changes have been made, germany still views itself as the driver, not the passenger. I accept entirely, that today it's more fiscal compacts than blitzkrieg, but that's today. Tomorrow, who knows?

Because they have the resources. If we had the resources, we'd be the same!

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's frog and scorpion stuff, it's in their nature to bully and dominate their neighbours. Just like it is in a lot of countries nature, britain, russia, china, usa to name but a few. The germans are far from unique in this regard, but it's just plain wrong to say they aren't like that.

here's where we differ. Speaking about it being 'in the nature' of millions of people to act as one is just deeply ignorant. You've also ignored my point that 'Germany' spent a huge amount of their history not trying to dominate Europe or the world. They've only tried to take over the 'world' once.

Mensch Maschine

I hate the German stereotype. I've only been there once but I had a buddy that lived here for a few months. He was German of course and he was the best laugh ever. I think the stupid stereotype comes of uneducated British people that still ****e on about WW2 and crappy British TV.

Most Irish people don't actually have reason to believe those stereotypes, they get if from British people.

prinz

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Speaking about it being 'in the nature' of millions of people to act as one is just deeply ignorant....

Indeed, the irony was delicious.

Nodin

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Because they have the resources. If we had the resources, we'd be the same!



here's where we differ. Speaking about it being 'in the nature' of millions of people to act as one is just deeply ignorant. You've also ignored my point that 'Germany' spent a huge amount of their history not trying to dominate Europe or the world. They've only tried to take over the 'world' once.

Indeed. France Spain and Britain feature considerably higher on the 'Attempt at World Domination' table. Yet we're lumbered with the image of the 'cowardly' French and the 'can't wait to get a-warrin' Germans.

prinz

Mensch Maschine wrote: »

I think the stupid stereotype comes of uneducated British people that still ****e on about WW2 and crappy British TV.....

You mean like the Nazi Discovery Channel :pac:

Dyr

Mensch Maschine wrote: »

I hate the German stereotype. I've only been there once but I had a buddy that lived here for a few months. He was German of course and he was the best laugh ever. I think the stupid stereotype comes of uneducated British people that still ****e on about WW2 and crappy British TV.

Most Irish people don't actually have reason to believe those stereotypes, they get if from British people.

So you're saying that the stupid stereotype about the german's comes from your stupid sterotype about the british?

Fuinseog

Mensch Maschine wrote: »

I hate the German stereotype. I've only been there once but I had a buddy that lived here for a few months. He was German of course and he was the best laugh ever. I think the stupid stereotype comes of uneducated British people that still ****e on about WW2 and crappy British TV.

Most Irish people don't actually have reason to believe those stereotypes, they get if from British people.

the extreme left in this country seems to be strongly anti EU and use any excuse to bring up the nazis. the NO posters on the recent treaty with Merkel in a führer like pose should never have been allowed.

cartell_best

I genuinely can't help but think that Germany couldn't dominate Europe and possibly the world through physical force but yet, now, they hold so much power economically?!?!?! It is so true, money = power....

Fuinseog

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Because they have the resources. If we had the resources, we'd be the same!



here's where we differ. Speaking about it being 'in the nature' of millions of people to act as one is just deeply ignorant. You've also ignored my point that 'Germany' spent a huge amount of their history not trying to dominate Europe or the world. They've only tried to take over the 'world' once.

so indeed did Britain and they still are. imagine going to fight a war for some rock in the south atlantic.
why do the Brits not get the same hassle for trying to rule the world? they still sing their imperialistic songs of britannia ruling the waves.
they may think that they won the war, all by themselves but without other powers they would have been defeated.

Lawrence1895

prinz wrote: »

You mean like the Nazi Discovery Channel :pac:

Who got the majority of their documentaries from a German...Guido Knopp, his name. Anything with 'Hitler's' was made by him, like Hitler's Henchmen, Hitler's Generals. Hitler's rubber toys...

Nodin

Lars1916 wrote: »

Who got the majority of their documentaries from a German...Guido Knopp, his name. Anything with 'Hitler's' was made by him, like Hitler's Henchmen, Hitler's Generals. Hitler's rubber toys...

...they've never done a program on Hitler kitsch though....They used his mug on plates, salt and pepper shakers, tea-pots, the lot. Quite collectable.

sbsquarepants

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

here's where we differ. Speaking about it being 'in the nature' of millions of people to act as one is just deeply ignorant. .

You don't think that there is such a thing as a national trait?
You don't see differences between French people and Irish people? Jamaicans and Japanese perhaps? Bolivians and Canadians? All think and act exactly alike do they? We are a fully culturaly homogenised world now, yes? That sounds like politicaly correct bullshít to me.

prinz wrote: »

I don't think you know that many Germans tbh. They really are just itching to 'go all lebensraum' again. They never get tired of the stories of their grandparents and greatgrandparents who were killed, raped, lost family members, suffered lifelong mental scarring. There's nothing to make you more interested in remilitarisation than hearing about how your teenage grandmother was gangraped by Soviet troops etc or how you never stayed overnight at your grandparents house because your grandfather suffered nightmares constantly and would wake up screaming during the night up to his dying days?

Do you realise the only member of NATO with a smaller percentage of the active labour force engaged in military/defence employment than Germany is mighty Luxembourg?

You mean like Denmark who spend more per capita on military and defence than Germany does?

Not that many, i know a few and i've visited the country a fair few times over the years. I like the place and I like the people I have to say.

A lot of countries, and individuals therein have bad recollections of war. What exactly is your point?
You'll struggle to find anymore than a handfull of nutjobs who actually like war, or enjoyed the experience of one. I suppose that explains how war is now eradicated, why we only see it on the history channel?
People don't like war, so wars don't happen?? Makes perfect sense
If you can't see the flaw in that thinking, there is nothing i can do to make you.
I can see it though.

Fuinseog wrote: »

so indeed did Britain and they still are. imagine going to fight a war for some rock in the south atlantic.
why do the Brits not get the same hassle for trying to rule the world? they still sing their imperialistic songs of britannia ruling the waves.
they may think that they won the war, all by themselves but without other powers they would have been defeated.

They do off me.
And the whole, england done do it too, is a bit of a pathetic argument do you not think? Spain took over half the world as well, ah well that makes it all ok then i suppose.


I have got a pain in my arse with this argument - it started as a throw away, joke line about germans not being violent. How the fúck has it come to this?
Again i repeat, I actually like the fúcking Germans!!
But for christ sake people, if the neighbours dog bit you twice, would it not be prudent to accept the possibility that he might do it a third time? It doesn't sound all that bat shít crazy to me!

Anywho, i'm off home to watch those other imperiallist swines the Spanish, get the beating they so richly deserve:D:D:D

Dr Strange

Nodin wrote: »

...they've never done a program on Hitler kitsch though....They used his mug on plates, salt and pepper shakers, tea-pots, the lot. Quite collectable.

I think it was compulsory for Volkswagen owners to have a Hitler bobblehead figurine in the car*



*this information may contain propaganda and lies

prinz

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A lot of countries, and individuals therein have bad recollections of war. What exactly is your point?

My point is go to Germany and ask a few Germans about how interested they are in militarisation and lebensraum. Yes many nationalities have bad recollections of war but not many nationalities have learned from their past like the Germans have. Your only reasoning is they started a war in 1939, therefore they are likely to start more. That's bonkers. There is no appetite for it in Germany whatsoever.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You'll struggle to find anymore than a handfull of nutjobs who actually like war, or enjoyed the experience of one. I suppose that explains how war is now eradicated, why we only see it on the history channel?
People don't like war, so wars don't happen?? Makes perfect sense
If you can't see the flaw in that thinking, there is nothing i can do to make you. I can see it though.

I don't think you can, because you are assuming everyone responds the same way. The British saw a glimpse of the horrors of war, yet where are they..... still jingoistic, still revelling in the good old days, still ruling the waves, still celebrating beating the krauts etc.

On the other hand the Germans have completely gone to the other extreme.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Spain took over half the world as well, ah well that makes it all ok then i suppose..

Nobody said it was ok... but on the other hand you don't see many people insinuating the Spanish are going to be rolling tanks into Latin America any time soon either.

peasant

sbsquarepants wrote: »

But for christ sake people, if the neighbours dog bit you twice, would it not be prudent to accept the possibility that he might do it a third time? It doesn't sound all that bat shít crazy to me!

And you don't seem to be capable of understanding that a nation that got their ass handed to them on a plate twice for starting a war can come to the realisation that it mightn't be such a good idea to do it again?

First time round the country got totally crippled financially so that it ended up with hyper-inflation and destitution; the second time transformed the country into a heap of smoking rubble and cut it in half for good measure.

Anybody looking for a third helping would be insane, especially in this day and age where another pan-european or world war would be the last this planet ever sees.

If there is one nation that has understood this completely, it's the Germans.

Toby Take a Bow

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You don't think that there is such a thing as a national trait?
You don't see differences between French people and Irish people? Jamaicans and Japanese perhaps? Bolivians and Canadians? All think and act exactly alike do they? We are a fully culturaly homogenised world now, yes? That sounds like politicaly correct bullshít to me.

Ah, the old PC slur. I don't see it as that, I see it as common sense.

It goes a little like this. How do you judge that the millions of German people conform to stereotypes? From the German people you know? Anecdotal evidence, which means nothing. The only other thing that you seem to be judging the Germans on is on a very partial, selective view of their history. Again, the Germans have once, once tried to take over the world (and even this was probably judged as impossible by the Nazis). You're ignoring so much of their history that it's laughable that you're seriously assigning national characteristics based on this.

And no, we're not a homogenised world now, that's kind of my point. Everyone's different.

peasant

Shenshen wrote: »

They were not barred.
They didn't want one. The allies requested them to have one, include it in the constitution right when it was written, Germany refused.
It was only after continued pressure from the US and the UK that Germany re-instated a military.
These days, if you let them, they would abandon it altogether again. Most Germans hate the thought of having a military.

For better understanding it might be worth reminding people that between 1945 and 1990 both Germanies were occupied countries. Slightly more democratic on the one side of the wall than the other, but by no means free to make all their own decisions.

West German infrastructure for example is littered with over-engineered, over-expensive bridges ...why? ...so that the allies could move their tank columns safely and quickly eastward.

To this day on every bridge you will find signs like these http://www.absperrtechnik24.de/shop/pix/a/br-04/g/Br-4-Militaerische-Tragfaehigkeitszeichen-an-Bruecken-Nato-Brueckenschild.jpg http://www.absperrtechnik24.de/shop/pix/a/br-5/g/Br-5-Militaerische-Tragfaehigkeitszeichen-an-Bruecken-Nato-Brueckenschild.jpg stating how much weight the bridge will take in single or dual traffic, wheeled or tracked.

Most Germans would rather have had more schools and Kindergardens out of their high taxes than expensive bridges (and a standing army of 500.000)

p

Fuinseog wrote: »

there is more individuality in Germany than Ireland, actually there is more individuality everywhere but Ireland. Folks here seem to have uniform tastes about everything.
where are the punks or goths in Ireland?do not dare to be different and slagg anyone who is.

Completely disagree. In Munich, where I live, is a very mono-cultural city with dress and style and music. Dublin is far more varied than here by a long shot.

Germany has ~80 million people and varies considerably between regions and cities, it's hard to generalise about them.

sbsquarepants

prinz wrote: »

Nobody said it was ok... but on the other hand you don't see many people insinuating the Spanish are going to be rolling tanks into Latin America any time soon either.

Well that would be kinda off topic in a thread about Germany.
I'm amazed at the number of people shocked that Germany is being singled out for attention in a thread titled THE GERMANS.
WTF?
Lets just agree to differ, the only way to know for sure is to wait for 4 or 5 decades and see if the Germans start another war. My point is not that they will, on balance of probabilities i'd say it's unlikely. But impossible?? No, absolutely not.
And should such a thing happen, I for one would not claim to be amazed or shocked by it and would feel quite justified in citing their past behaviour as the reason why.

peasant wrote: »

And you don't seem to be capable of understanding that a nation that got their ass handed to them on a plate twice for starting a war can come to the realisation that it mightn't be such a good idea to do it again?

First time round the country got totally crippled financially so that it ended up with hyper-inflation and destitution; the second time transformed the country into a heap of smoking rubble and cut it in half for good measure.

Anybody looking for a third helping would be insane, especially in this day and age where another pan-european or world war would be the last this planet ever sees.

If there is one nation that has understood this completely, it's the Germans.

That's reasuring, cos it's not like fanatics or psychopaths ever end up leading countries.
Even democratic countries are sometimes steamrolled by liars into doing things their populations don't neccesarily like. Look at George Bush and Tony Blair - 2 democratically elected leaders that conspired and lied to start a war THEY wanted for financial reasons. It happens, it happens all the time.

peasant wrote: »

For better understanding it might be worth reminding people that between 1945 and 1990 both Germanies were occupied countries. Slightly more democratic on the one side of the wall than the other, but by no means free to make all their own decisions.

West German infrastructure for example is littered with over-engineered, over-expensive bridges ...why? ...so that the allies could move their tank columns safely and quickly eastward.

To this day on every bridge you will find signs like these http://www.absperrtechnik24.de/shop/pix/a/br-04/g/Br-4-Militaerische-Tragfaehigkeitszeichen-an-Bruecken-Nato-Brueckenschild.jpg http://www.absperrtechnik24.de/shop/pix/a/br-5/g/Br-5-Militaerische-Tragfaehigkeitszeichen-an-Bruecken-Nato-Brueckenschild.jpg stating how much weight the bridge will take in single or dual traffic, wheeled or tracked.

Most Germans would rather have had more schools and Kindergardens out of their high taxes than expensive bridges (and a standing army of 500.000)

Kind of proves my point, that what most Germans want is neither here nor there. A point that for some reason is going completely over some peoples heads. I'm not personally attacking anybodys German friends or lovers here. The vast majority of any Germans i've met or dealt with professionaly have been very nice people, but that is completely irrelevant to the point i'm making.
The vast majority of Iranians i'm sure would rather have sewerage systems than nuclear weapons, does that mean their nuclear programme will be abandoned? Does it fúck.
Half of India is starving while the powers that be build nukes and space rockets, what do you think is priority for the average indian, dinner or satelite communications?
People don't always get what they want, why would German people be the exception? Answer is, they aren't! And that is my point.

dadoffay

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well that would be kinda off topic in a thread about Germany.
I'm amazed at the number of people shocked that Germany is being singled out for attention in a thread titled THE GERMANS.
WTF?
Lets just agree to differ, the only way to know for sure is to wait for 4 or 5 decades and see if the Germans start another war. My point is not that they will, on balance of probabilities i'd say it's unlikely. But impossible?? No, absolutely not.
And should such a thing happen, I for one would not claim to be amazed or shocked by it and would feel quite justified in citing their past behaviour as the reason why.



That's reasuring, cos it's not like fanatics or psychopaths ever end up leading countries.
Even democratic countries are sometimes steamrolled by liars into doing things their populations don't neccesarily like. Look at George Bush and Tony Blair - 2 democratically elected leaders that conspired and lied to start a war THEY wanted for financial reasons. It happens, it happens all the time.



Kind of proves my point, that what most Germans want is neither here nor there. A point that for some reason is going completely over some peoples heads. I'm not personally attacking anybodys German friends or lovers here. The vast majority of any Germans i've met or dealt with professionaly have been very nice people, but that is completely irrelevant to the point i'm making.
The vast majority of Iranians i'm sure would rather have sewerage systems than nuclear weapons, does that mean their nuclear programme will be abandoned? Does it fúck.
Half of India is starving while the powers that be build nukes and space rockets, what do you think is priority for the average indian, dinner or satelite communications?
People don't always get what they want, why would German people be the exception? Answer is, they aren't! And that is my point.

I am German and live in Ireland since 1999. Some of the opinions in this thread amaze me. Let's just say I prefer living in Ireland but most of my close, reliable and fun friends happen to be Germans:).

fryup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7W7q7pWygU

threeball

Anyone thinking the Germans would go to war again must be off your nut.
The Germans have figured out war doesn't work and have decided that the best way to dominate europe is financially, which they have already achieved. The ultimate expression of passive agressive domination.

The most ironic thing is that the only country actively pursuing a lebensraum policy today is Isreal.

dd972

The Brits are jealous as hell of their railways, roads, hospitals, education system, housing stock, sporting prowess, bundesliga, reinheitsgebot, the list goes on

No wonder they keep banging on about WW2 and Nazi's.

youreadthat

dd972 wrote: »

The Brits are jealous as hell of their railways, roads, hospitals, education system, housing stock, sporting prowess, bundesliga, reinheitsgebot, the list goes on

No wonder they keep banging on about WW2 and Nazi's.

This isn't really true, I find Britain loves "flavour of the months" to the detriment of itself. English football desperately needed to be more Spanish a couple of years ago, now it must become German. German-esque apprenticeships are the latest must implement, not long ago it was Norwegian/Japanese education system. As for trains, they go in cycles of loving French/Swiss/German systems.

Smidge

This thread started off so positively.
The last few pages prove why we cant have nice things

On a side note, I LOVE the German accent

rubin_spitfire

I am yet to meet an Irish person who does not mistake me for German.

Whenever I correct the mistake, I am met with a larger confusing look.

ROAAAR

rubin_spitfire wrote: »

I am yet to meet an Irish person who does not mistake me for German.

Whenever I correct the mistake, I am met with a larger confusing look.

Are you Dutch by any chance? My Dutch friend is always saying the same thing, although he is actually half German himself and lived very close to Germany so not too unsurprising.