The Germans

sbsquarepants

Shenshen wrote: »

You're talking about a country where calling someone a soldier can get you dragged into court on charges of insult. Germany is spending less per capita on its military than Denmark, and less than half what Greece is spending.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the exact facts and figures involved, but you can bet that allthough afaik the legal ban on them expanding their military is gone, or largely gone since reunification, if they did start expanding there would be an awful lot of nervous people in europe in particular, including their "friends" the french. Germany isn't spending on it's military because of it's past, not despite it.

bbam wrote: »

Why would they indeed?
WE don't have our best interest at heart yet we somehow expect the Germans to look after us and bail us out. .

You said bailout, i said it wasn't a bailout. I don't expect anyone to bail us out.

bbam wrote: »

Of course they have their own interests at heart, they'd be fools not to. .

That was my point, do you agree with me now or what?

bbam wrote: »

But they are supplying us with cash to run our country, they have insisted on monitoring our progress on an agreement we signed up to, helping keep us on the straight ad narrow.. And you accuse them of trying to take over!.

THey are not supplying us with cash, they are lending us money - at quite a steep interest rate let it be noted, to ensure THEY don't loose money that THEY lent to dodgy irish banks. They couldn't give a fúck if we stay on the straight and narrow, or if we all hit the crack pipe - so long as we pay THEM back THEIR money. That is all they care about, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

bbam wrote: »

In a time where they have managed to rebuild their country twice we have managed to squander the money we received from Europe and govern ourselves into two recessions, the current one from which will take decades to recover from. Seriously, and some Irish people think that we can hold Europe to ransome for a right down of our debts, when the truth is that Europe would be better off without us.

There is no knocking their efficiency, i have nothing but admiration for it. I deal with a lot of German companies in work and their quality is generally speaking second to none.

Shenshen wrote: »

You are wrong. Fuinseog didn't say the Germans weren't violent, he said they aren't.

Yes, as a nation, they have been violent in the past. Immensely so.
But, and that but is important, they are not violent in the current age. Please keep in mind that the generation running Germany today is the 2nd and 3rd post-war generation, going into the 4th now.
Claiming that they are a violent nation based on something their great-grandparents seems unfair.

You take any country with a history of violence and aggresion and you can say they weren't violent in between wars. What does that prove?

I will aggree with you that it's very unlikely that German tanks will be trundelling down the champs elysee this week or next, but 10 years from now, 20 years, 50 years - i absolutely refuse to rule it out as a possibility and i think anyone that does, just doesn't understand the way the world works.

sbsquarepants

prinz wrote: »

They bloody better, will need to up their game from the first match though. Should be a cracker tonight, got a few cans in, jersey on, Sieg! Sieg! :pac:

I think th most interesting will be seeing how many yellow and red cards there will be. I can see things getting a bit feisty.

I bloody hope so too, i have them to top their group in an accumulator. I also have a few quid on ozil to be top scorer, as a long shot.
I need that money to pay MY bondholders:D

Franticfrank

I will aggree with you that it's very unlikely that German tanks will be trundelling down the champs elysee this week or next, but 10 years from now, 20 years, 50 years - i absolutely refuse to rule it out as a possibility and i think anyone that does, just doesn't understand the way the world works.

Well, German tanks rolling down the Champs-Elysee only ever happened once. It probably won't happen again in my opinion. The Germans aren't like that these days, its not in the nature of the young 4th generation Germans. The British waged global war and slaughtered people for hundreds of years. I don't expect them to be burning down Cork in 30 years.

Lawrence1895

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I bloody hope so too, i have them to top their group in an accumulator. I also have a few quid on ozil to be top scorer, as a long shot.
I need that money to pay MY bondholders:D

How much were the odds for that? I have a tenner on Lewandowski, 25:1 it was

Ah well...under one hour to go, getting slightly nervous here :rolleyes:

K-9

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You said bailout, i said it wasn't a bailout. I don't expect anyone to bail us out.

A bail out is when somebody lends to you when nobody else will. The IMF could only lend us so much, same with Britain.

THey are not supplying us with cash, they are lending us money - at quite a steep interest rate let it be noted, to ensure THEY don't loose money that THEY lent to dodgy irish banks. They couldn't give a fúck if we stay on the straight and narrow, or if we all hit the crack pipe - so long as we pay THEM back THEIR money. That is all they care about, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

They, well the EU is lending to us at rates lower than the IMF and Britain, interestingly the British barely get mentioned in this instance! As for German banks, I hear and read about that a lot but do you have any evidence of how big German bank lending was?

Fuinseog

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Do you not have the history channel or what?

oh right Germans , Nazis,World War Two, how we won the war etc. just like I have been called IRA abroad once they hear I am Irish. folks are pretty much the same in any country.

your average German is less aggressive than a Brit or Irish person. get a few drinks into them and they will still be okay. why does every shop and pub open after ten have a bouncer? there is no need for that in Germany.

Fuinseog

K-9 wrote: »

A bail out is when somebody lends to you when nobody else will. The IMF could only lend us so much, same with Britain.

a bailout is when we get money for nothing, are expected to pay it back which is novel for us given our history of handouts, and hope that the EU forgets about it.

K-9

Fuinseog wrote: »

a bailout is when we get money for nothing, are expected to pay it back which is novel for us given our history of handouts, and hope that the EU forgets about it.

Unfortunately a bailout for a Government is different to one from a pal who says "pay me back when you can!"

Governments have to borrow the money to give to us, some at higher rates that we are getting it! Spain and Italy for example might well have borrowed the money they gave us, at a higher rate than they lent us. That's a bailout or more a sub in everyday language!

Our history of handouts? I don't know what handouts we got in history? We got development money which never had to be paid back.

sbsquarepants

Franticfrank wrote: »

Well, German tanks rolling down the Champs-Elysee only ever happened once. It probably won't happen again in my opinion. The Germans aren't like that these days, its not in the nature of the young 4th generation Germans. The British waged global war and slaughtered people for hundreds of years. I don't expect them to be burning down Cork in 30 years.

The brits are still doing it. They, as in the political rulers, happilly told a ton of lies to go off to war to protect their oil interests. If there was oil in cork, they'd still be there too. The VAST majority of people all around the world dislike war, but yet wars happen all the time. Young Germans not wanting a war, would not prevent Germany going to war anymore than young brits not wanting one prevented them.

Lars1916 wrote: »

How much were the odds for that? I have a tenner on Lewandowski, 25:1 it was

Ah well...under one hour to go, getting slightly nervous here :rolleyes:

He was 66/1 - only put a fiver on him as a long shot thankfully.
Germany looked impressive last night!

Fuinseog wrote: »

oh right Germans , Nazis,World War Two, how we won the war etc. just like I have been called IRA abroad once they hear I am Irish. folks are pretty much the same in any country.
your average German is less aggressive than a Brit or Irish person. get a few drinks into them and they will still be okay. why does every shop and pub open after ten have a bouncer? there is no need for that in Germany.

I aggree with you there, but it's not the point. A million british people marched in london demanding an end to the war in iraq - didn't make a blind bit of difference. The world doesn't work like the stock market, past performance IS an indication of future performance.

K-9 wrote: »

A bail out is when somebody lends to you when nobody else will. The IMF could only lend us so much, same with Britain.
They, well the EU is lending to us at rates lower than the IMF and Britain, interestingly the British barely get mentioned in this instance! As for German banks, I hear and read about that a lot but do you have any evidence of how big German bank lending was?

A loan, is a loan, is a loan. Greece got a bailout, we got a loan. Greece didn't get a bailout to help Greece, it got one to try and help Germany and France mainly, others too of course but those 2 mainly
Don't have any figures to quote i'm afraid.

K-9 wrote: »

Unfortunately a bailout for a Government is different to one from a pal who says "pay me back when you can!"

Governments have to borrow the money to give to us, some at higher rates that we are getting it! Spain and Italy for example might well have borrowed the money they gave us, at a higher rate than they lent us. That's a bailout or more a sub in everyday language!

Our history of handouts? I don't know what handouts we got in history? We got development money which never had to be paid back.

I don't know what our history of handouts thing means either.
But the rest is just how the system works, it's nobody doing anybody a favour. We "gave" money to greece for example, because we were obliged too, not because we were worried about them.

Shenshen

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The brits are still doing it. They, as in the political rulers, happilly told a ton of lies to go off to war to protect their oil interests. If there was oil in cork, they'd still be there too. The VAST majority of people all around the world dislike war, but yet wars happen all the time. Young Germans not wanting a war, would not prevent Germany going to war anymore than young brits not wanting one prevented them.

You don't happen to be talking about the war that Britain decided to fight on the US's side, you know the one Germany expressedly DID NOT join on moral grounds despite being pressured by most of its allies?
That one?

Toby Take a Bow

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the exact facts and figures involved, but you can bet that allthough afaik the legal ban on them expanding their military is gone, or largely gone since reunification, if they did start expanding there would be an awful lot of nervous people in europe in particular, including their "friends" the french. Germany isn't spending on it's military because of it's past, not despite it.

So, because Germany aren't spending money on their military is directly related to past aggresions? It's got nothing to do with the fact that they don't see any military threat and can thus spend less in this area?

Also, any country who finds itself as the strongest in a region will eventually start looking around at its neighbours. The fact that the institutions set up - and set up partly by Germany - mean it won't happen again for a long enough time.

Fuinseog

Shenshen wrote: »

You don't happen to be talking about the war that Britain decided to fight on the US's side, you know the one Germany expressedly DID NOT join on moral grounds despite being pressured by most of its allies?
That one?

Germany is however involved, not 'fighting' mind you, in Afghanistan. there was a storm recently when a politician called it a 'war'.

Shenshen

Fuinseog wrote: »

Germany is however involved, not 'fighting' mind you, in Afghanistan. there was a storm recently when a politician called it a 'war'.

When he called it a war for oil I assumed he was talking about Iraq?
Yes, Germany is involved in Afghanistan, as a member of Nato. And I do remember that even that required massive debates and nearly ended up aplitting one of the then government parties. It was a very slim majority that finally sanctioned the involvement.

kfallon

Mario Gomez.....you can nail me to the bed anytime :pac:

kfallon

kfallon wrote: »

Mario Gomez.....you can nail me to the bed anytime :pac:

I think he prefers the schlitzpissur

Shenshen

kfallon wrote: »

Mario Gomez.....you can nail me to the bed anytime :pac:

Heh... Those were my exact words yesterday

munchkin_utd

kfallon wrote: »

Mario Gomez.....you can nail me to the bed anytime :pac:

jaysus, if he is as lazy in bed as on the field you wont be getting much action!

kfallon

munchkin_utd wrote: »

jaysus, if he is as lazy in bed as on the field you wont be getting much action!

Quality over quantity

sbsquarepants

Shenshen wrote: »

You don't happen to be talking about the war that Britain decided to fight on the US's side, you know the one Germany expressedly DID NOT join on moral grounds despite being pressured by most of its allies?
That one?

That's the very one!;)
They actually are involved in a minor role though.

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

So, because Germany aren't spending money on their military is directly related to past aggresions? It's got nothing to do with the fact that they don't see any military threat and can thus spend less in this area?

Also, any country who finds itself as the strongest in a region will eventually start looking around at its neighbours. The fact that the institutions set up - and set up partly by Germany - mean it won't happen again for a long enough time.

The fact they aren't spending money is largely a result of them being expressly forbidden to do so for a long time after the war, barriers that have only very recently and tentatively been removed. You may also bet that their NATO "allies" are watching them like god damn hawks. Don't be naive, Germany hasn't magically turned into care bear land all of a sudden.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

jaysus, if he is as lazy in bed as on the field you wont be getting much action!

Well, 3 times in 2 nights so far. I've had far worse dry spells myself to be honest....... and i'm a fúcking stud!!:cool:*


*May or may not be accurate;)

Shenshen

sbsquarepants wrote: »

That's the very one!;)
They actually are involved in a minor role though.

What, you mean allowing the US to use the NATO bases in Germany?

"Watching them like hawks" really made me laugh. They near enough forced the country to participate, they are not exactly behaving themselves as they should themselves, but you assume they are worried the handful of German troops they blackmailed Germany into sending abroad will goosestep into Kabul one of these days and take over?
Aren't you getting a little hot under your tinfoil hat?

sbsquarepants

Shenshen wrote: »

"Watching them like hawks" really made me laugh.
Aren't you getting a little hot under your tinfoil hat?

That's not how I meant it. I don't mean watching them in case they "goose step into Kabul". I mean watching them like hawks so they don't start yet another massive militarisation of the country and start going all lebensraum again.
Shít, I forgot my fúcking hat again. Now sush or they'll hear us:D

sardonic

Anyone see this. http://Don't mention the war! German delegation is greeted by villagers in Nazi uniforms during visit to their British twin town

peasant

That's not how I meant it. I don't mean watching them in case they "goose step into Kabul". I mean watching them like hawks so they don't start yet another massive militarisation of the country and start going all lebensraum again

ah please ...

1) the original constitution of (West) Germany after the war did not foresee any armed forces at all

2) that was changed in the early 50's under pressure of the allies who needed somebody to stick their neck out aginst the Soviets and the Bundeswehr was founded (and initially equipped with American weapons)

3) at the height of the cold war the Bundeswehr had half a million men under arms at all times; this figure is now just a smidgeen over 200 thousand.

4) and then there would be the minor matter that both the UK and France are nuclear powers and Germany ain't ...mighty inconvenient for dominance

sbsquarepants

Hi peasant,

Maybe i'm explaining myself badly or something, but your rebuff is basically the point i thought i had made.
They were barred from having any military of note, the bar was lifted (i thought a good bit more recently than the 50's but hey, every day is a school day!). Their heavily armed friends and neighbours still feel it prudent to keep an eye on them.....

I'm struggling to see were the hostility and tin foil hat bollox is coming from to be honest

Dyr

Look Fritz figured out that he were'nt going to take the world by force but that does'nt mean that the old urge for lebensraum has gone away. They've just suppressed it and it now manifests itself from their collective unconsciousness as an obsession with creating a single big happy european reich *verdammit* union, which they of course will dominate.

No matter how hard they try their true nature cannot be subdued :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7W7q7pWygU

Toby Take a Bow

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The fact they aren't spending money is largely a result of them being expressly forbidden to do so for a long time after the war, barriers that have only very recently and tentatively been removed. You may also bet that their NATO "allies" are watching them like god damn hawks. Don't be naive, Germany hasn't magically turned into care bear land all of a sudden.

'Germany' is a completely different country, with a different constitution, and - most importantly - with different people ruling it than all the other Germanys that have tried to rule the world (something that they only started in 1870, and only ever really tried once in the 1930s/40s).

Unless, of course, there's an innate desire within all people born within Germany's border to rule the world.

pappyodaniel

I remember a few years ago walking through Berlin with my ex girlfriend. We were just passing a train station when a young looking hippy type beggar approached us and said something in his native tongue.

I apologised in English telling him I didn't speak the language. Without hesitation he goes "Oh you speak ze English? Ok, vot I said was, can you spare me some euros so I can purchase alcohol?"

I put my hand in my pocket and gave him all the change I had (about €6) and told that I admired his honesty.

The Germans have a better class of homeless/alcho/junkie when you compare them to the scum you have to deal with in Dublin.

sbsquarepants

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

'Germany' is a completely different country, with a different constitution, and - most importantly - with different people ruling it than all the other Germanys that have tried to rule the world (something that they only started in 1870, and only ever really tried once in the 1930s/40s).
.

Of course it is, all those ones are dead!
But no matter what changes have been made, germany still views itself as the driver, not the passenger. I accept entirely, that today it's more fiscal compacts than blitzkrieg, but that's today. Tomorrow, who knows?
It's frog and scorpion stuff, it's in their nature to bully and dominate their neighbours. Just like it is in a lot of countries nature, britain, russia, china, usa to name but a few. The germans are far from unique in this regard, but it's just plain wrong to say they aren't like that.

sbsquarepants

pappyodaniel wrote: »

The Germans have a better class of homeless/alcho/junkie when you compare them to the scum you have to deal with in Dublin.

A few years back i was looking for a street in frankfurt when a bum came up to me asking what i was doing, i was weary of him as you do be around bums, but i showed him the address and he pointed me in the right direction and sent me on my way. Never even asked for money! A proper gentleman bum so he was!!

Fuinseog

Bambi wrote: »

Look Fritz figured out that he were'nt going to take the world by force but that does'nt mean that the old urge for lebensraum has gone away. They've just suppressed it and it now manifests itself from their collective unconsciousness as an obsession with creating a single big happy european reich *verdammit* union, which they of course will dominate.

No matter how hard they try their true nature cannot be subdued :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7W7q7pWygU

Germany has perpetrated and suffered more wars than any other country in Europe.
they have been working towards European cooperation more than any other country and the German taxpayer bares the brunt of this.

For the Germans Europe is a chance to work together, for us its cash cow, for the Brits just another enemy.
if Germany had problems we would not give a fiddlers fart yet they are expected to come to our aid when we piss away all our money.