Anyone for Sandhurst?

tac foley

KickstartHeart wrote: »

The Irish Defence Forces is of a very high standard internationally though....

An excellent post, Sir.

Thank you for it.

tac

KickstartHeart

tac foley wrote: »

An excellent post, Sir.

Thank you for it.

tac

Thanks Tac.

neilled

Poccington wrote: »

Not really.

Morpheus should know a lad that I know, ex RDF, who was commissioned from Sandhurst not all that long ago and he's a dirty Northsider. No private education for that lad.

I think its not a bar to enterance or a commission, but where your commissioned to? Well quite possibly as social background still does have some impact as to who gets into a regiment.

When I went with my chat with ACA (army careers advisor) NI about 3 years ago (not that distant) I had an idea about units I might like to serve with, most of them with Irish connections. One cavalry and two infantry.

The ACA advised me not to go for two them due to my background not fitting - the cav in his experience still hung around the mess chatting about 3 day eventing etc (bar the Royal Tank Regiment, about the only place for a non horsey type to go driving tanks apparently, so lots of competition to get in), whilst the guards (he thought) were still very much about family connections - his advise was to go for a large infantry unit like the Rifles or Royal Regiment of Scotland where you could be posted back and forth between different battalions and get experience in multiple roles, or go for the arty (though he was a gunner himself). The Royal Irish he noted were a single BN and only have a limited number of commissions to offer each year.

For the record my background at the time would have been N.Ireland Grammar Schooling with a good set of A-Levels and a Degree holder - in the end I didn't head down the route of joining the BA. Perhaps if someone has a more recent experiences they would share them with the board?

KickstartHeart

neilled wrote: »

social background still does have some impact as to who gets into a regiment.

Do you mean that different regiments look for different kinds of officers? I remember reading on the rifles website that they look for officers from 'varied walks of life'. So would it be true to say that other regiments look for people from specific backgrounds?

neilled

KickstartHeart wrote: »

Do you mean that different regiments look for different kinds of officers? I remember reading on the rifles website that they look for officers from 'varied walks of life'. So would it be true to say that other regiments look for people from specific backgrounds?

I would think so, I can only speak on my own experience of the first part of the recruitment process.

Firstly, you need to remember that the "regimental system" of the BA is very different than what exists in the DF. As a young officer, you'll be commissioned into a regiment and will probably stay there your entire career bar courses and heading away to staff appointments. Officers and Men are probably more loyal to the regiment than to the crown or even army in general! Each has its own unique traditions, different drill, marching speeds, a capbade on the rear of the shako because they fought back to back at some battle of the 18th century some don't toast the monarch because they stayed loyal to the crown during the civil war - the list goes on. The best analogy is that a regiment is a tribe convinced that they are better than all the other tribes, and their uniform, beret or capbadge sets them apart and unites them

In the DF an officer is posted to a unit post commissioning, might do an overseas tour as an lt, one as a capt and then come back and find themselves transferred to another unit within their brigade or corps as it were. Whilst they'll always be thought of as being "originally from" a certain BN or corps formation, they'll shuffle around the place as the service needs.

So regiments do look for a certain type of chap that will fit in with their ethos and will offer "the right man" a guaranteed place in the regiment after he is commissioned from RMAS, theres an element of "do you want us and do we want you?" from what I gather. As said before I didn't go through the whole system, but thats what i took from it.

KickstartHeart

neilled wrote: »

I would think so, I can only speak on my own experience of the first part of the recruitment process.

Firstly, you need to remember that the "regimental system" of the BA is very different than what exists in the DF. As a young officer, you'll be commissioned into a regiment and will probably stay there your entire career bar courses and heading away to staff appointments. Officers and Men are probably more loyal to the regiment than to the crown or even army in general! Each has its own unique traditions, different drill, marching speeds, a capbade on the rear of the shako because they fought back to back at some battle of the 18th century some don't toast the monarch because they stayed loyal to the crown during the civil war - the list goes on. The best analogy is that a regiment is a tribe convinced that they are better than all the other tribes, and their uniform, beret or capbadge sets them apart and unites them

In the DF an officer is posted to a unit post commissioning, might do an overseas tour as an lt, one as a capt and then come back and find themselves transferred to another unit within their brigade or corps as it were. Whilst they'll always be thought of as being "originally from" a certain BN or corps formation, they'll shuffle around the place as the service needs.

So regiments do look for a certain type of chap that will fit in with their ethos and will offer "the right man" a guaranteed place in the regiment after he is commissioned from RMAS, theres an element of "do you want us and do we want you?" from what I gather. As said before I didn't go through the whole system, but thats what i took from it.

You don't know in any detail which regiments look for which kinds of people by any chance?

neilled

KickstartHeart wrote: »

You don't know in any detail which regiments look for which kinds of people by any chance?

Sweeping generalisations based on my own experience, however others may know better

Cav bar the Royal Tank Regiment - Horse Owners, Well heeled, groomed public school educated.

Royal Tank Regiment derisively known as the "Chavalry" - amongst the rest of the Royal Armoured Corps, despite the fact they were the first to be mechanised!

Inf - not sure really, get the impression that most of the "super regiments" like the rifles and royal regiment of scots are open to pretty much anyone. Ghurkas - a gift for languages not really sure about the rest

REME - an appropriate technical background

RLC - anyone

Arty - Anyone

AGC - Anyone

Bde of Guards - public schooled, well healed, family connections as it was explained to me. The chap in that sandhurst documentary seemed to back that up. Not always the case though, know of one fella who wouldn't really be of that background who was offered a gds regiment.

Best thing to do would be arrange an appointment if the Army Careers Advisor in N.Ireland who'll give you the lowdown as he see's it. If its still the same chap, he's a retired Col. who's been around a bit and deals with many candidates from the ROI, i think he said over half of his applicants were coming from south of the border back when I saw him.

Perhaps TAC Might Comment on my post and shed some light?

The Master of Disaster

KickstartHeart wrote: »

You don't know in any detail which regiments look for which kinds of people by any chance?

I should stress that most of what I'm about to say is premature. I'm not starting Sandhurst until January so much of what I'm about to say is based on limited experience gained during the selection process. Somebody like Tac who has extensive experience of the field army may be better placed to comment but I'll give my own twopence worth!

Cavalry - Met a lot of guys intending to go cavalry over the last months. Generally all really nice chaps but being honest not the sort of guys I could see myself spending a lot of my working and social life with. This isn't an indictment of them as such more, forgive the pun, horses for courses. They do tend to be privately educated, well-polished and somewhat upper-middle or upper class and although it's no longer universally true many do have private incomes and I've heard stories of Mess night bills running into five figure sums. I do know an Irish guy going Cavalry but he's very much the stereotype ie. owns horses, plays polo and wears red trousers! Then again I know another Irish chap who recently commissioned into a MBT regiment and he's the antithesis of said stereotype.

As already noted the RTR which tends to be quite different to the above.

The Infantry regiments, with the exception of the Foot Guards and the Parachute Regiment, have historically tended to recruit from their own geographical areas. Though yet again there are probably more exceptions to that rule than examples of the rule itself. It's all about where you feel you fit. For example I'm Irish but if I do go infantry I'm thinking about the Rifles (rather than the RIR). I've met a lot of really top guys going Rifles and I could definitely see myself becoming best mates with most of them. Don't think I'd like life in the Paras, don't seem to click as well with guys going for them but again that's just me. The Foot Guards are some way between the Cavalry and other parts of the army. Historically quite posh they still retain that aura about them though a lot of their officers come from 'regular' backgrounds.

Once you get outside the infantry and cavalry the distinctions become much less pronounced though you'll find a certain Corps attracts a certain type of person ie. the Gunners love their rugby. It's all about finding a regiment where you can see yourself living with those officers and one where the regiment feels you'd fit in. The only way you'll know where you belong is to go visit the various arms and regiments. You might have your heart set on the Paras but find you like the PWRR more, or you might think you'd like to join the Gunners but find you actually want to go RLC or Royal Signals.

Again I repeat the caveat that the above is very very generalised and should be taken with a serious pinch of salt!

KickstartHeart

Thanks for the detailed replies lads!

I don't particularly want to join the British Army, so I'll give heading up to NI a miss. I'm just generally interested in this stuff thats why I asked.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

tac foley

Gentlemen - I'd like to make a point of my appreciation of the way that you have all dealt with this thread - in a very gentlemanly and adult manner.

We know that there ARE posters on this forum with a strongly anti-British agenda, who, for reasons best known to themselves, seem to be morbidly fascinated with an organisation [the British Armed Forces] and a national population [the British] that they plainly loathe, a POV that is instantly apparent to anybody reading the vast majority of their posts. However, in spite of one of the main posters here not having an interest in joining any part of the British military, there is a general air here of an adult discussion that does you all proud.

As for making any input here, well, to tell the truth I'm not able to add anything to the reasoned arguments and advice that has been posted here already.

However, for the record - I joined as an 'other-ranker' in a technical branch of the Army, and two years later was made redundant [surplus to requirements]. I transferred into another part of the Army, and fourteen years later, almost to the day, I was commissioned - having progressed from Private soldier to Warrant Officer 1st Class in that fourteen years.

I retired back in 2000, having been a Major and acting Lt col for the previous seven years.

My part of the Army required you to show what you were good for, then excel in it, proving that you were worth promoting, and almost 50% of ALL its officers came from the ranks. Again, I'd point out that although none of us had had the benefits of an Irish education, many of us had degrees, even as NCOs, well before we were commissioned.

I never went to Sandhurst, except as a lecturer, and my entire commissioning ceremony took a little under two minutes - I walked in the door as a WO1, effectively left the Army [while the RSM had his heels firmly against the door], and then accepted the Queen's Commission that now hangs in its traditional position - in the downstairs bog. A minute passed as signatures were scrawled, us four brand-new Captains then ceremoniously marched past the RSM who gave US our very first salute, and then, as our guest, we took him over to the mess to get blatted.

Happy Days, eh? At least, that's what I was told afterwards.

tac

Delancey

Good post tac and indeed pleasant that the '' how could an Irishman join the Brits '' stuff did not derail the thread.

eyescreamcone

Some very informative posts
Good stuff lads, keep it up!

cruasder777

Heres one of the making of a Royal Marine commando officer.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4POpHJmwSYI&feature=related

tac foley

@KickStartHeart - read your PM.

tac

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

RMD

cruasder777 wrote: »

Heres one of the making of a Royal Marine commando officer.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4POpHJmwSYI&feature=related

Just a point of note for many you need British / British dual nationality to apply for RMO. It's not open to Republic of Ireland citizens, only OR is in the Royal Marines.

tomato1988

Has anyone been through the application process lately?

tac foley

Don't get me wrong, but I don't imagine that many people will be responding to your post on this 99.99% Irish forum.

Just sayin'.

tac

tac foley

Also, to become a RM officer, you'll need to read this first. Any 'no's' here, and it's a big NO.

The minimum entry requirements are five GCSEs (A-C)/five S grades (1-3) including English language and mathematics and two A levels/ three H grades. Applicants with alternative qualifications are considered on their individual merits.

Height/Weight
The minimum height requirement is 1.51 metres. Weight must be in proportion to height.

Nationality
You must be of British or dual British nationality, and have lived in the UK for five years.

Age
Direct entrants should be between 17 and 26 on the first day of the month of entry. Maximum age limits vary depending on the specialism but late entry is rare.

Graduates
Direct graduate entrants must have a UK degree and English and maths at GCSE (A-C)/S grades (1-3), or equivalent qualifications. They should be under 26 on 1st September of the year of entry (refers to all officer entrants not just graduates).

You will be required to pass a three-day Potential Officers Course, which tests your physical ability and endurance, mental aptitude and leadership skills. The course is followed by an interview. You will also have to pass a medical assessment.

A-level/H grade scholarships or reserved places and university cadetships or bursaries are available to some students. Exact details are available from armed forces careers officers, as are full nationality and residency requirements.

How long will I serve for?
You would join the Service as an officer on a 12-year Initial Commission. You would be required to serve at least three to five years.

Source(s):
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarines…;

Please note that de-selection rate [a fail] for the pre-selection course is roughly 65% of ALL applicants.

However, IF you tick all the initial boxes, and actually get to Lympstone, then the next 15 months will be unmitigated hell. The failure rate for the officers' course, per se, is between 30-40%, often more.

Worth more than gold and rubies at the end, though.

tac

PS - now I look back on it all, I don't recall ever having encountered a person from the Republic of Ireland in the RM as an officer, and only one OR from the North. But my experience is now many years out of date, and they might take Inuits in now, providing they meet the height requirement.

tomato1988

Thanks for the response Tac, but I was referring to the officer commissioning course at RMA Sandhurst, as per the thread title.

Lemming

Fascinating to see percentages on the failure rates for RM Officer applicants. Cheers for that tac.

It would be interesting to see the applicant rejection rates pre-recession and pre/post Iraq (round two)/Afghanistan although I imagine that the lympstone drop-out rate would be roughly equivalent.

On a slightly related note, has anyone watched that documentary series that was on BBC iplayer a while back with that report (can't think of his name right now) that did the enlisted course with recruits? Even the enlisted ranks course seemed to have a fairly high drop-out rate.

tac foley

Ah, I was really responding to post #48 - sorry for any confusion.

However, the educational requirements are still there, as are the requirements to be British/Dual with residency.

tac

tomato1988

tac foley wrote: »

Ah, I was really responding to post #48 - sorry for any confusion.

However, the educational requirements are still there, as are the requirements to be British/Dual with residency.

tac

I am Irish born and bred and am in the interview process at the moment (no dual nationality required).

tac foley

My post at #50 still applies.

Good luck.

tac

The_Gatsby

tomato1988 wrote: »

I am Irish born and bred and am in the interview process at the moment (no dual nationality required).

I'm currently going through the process. Have been awaiting a medical appeal for the last 8 weeks. I called yesterday for the 3rd time and they told me they'd fast track my appeal which is good to hear.

When is your interview?

tomato1988

The_Gatsby wrote: »

I'm currently going through the process. Have been awaiting a medical appeal for the last 8 weeks. I called yesterday for the 3rd time and they told me they'd fast track my appeal which is good to hear.

When is your interview?

have you been through the AOSB briefing yet?

HansHolzel

Have fun in Afghanistan.

The_Gatsby

tomato1988 wrote: »

have you been through the AOSB briefing yet?

Not yet. I failed the incredibly poorly designed online medical questionnaire so had to appeal. Been waiting about 2 months to hear from them but they said I should know tomorrow or Tuesday. I'm expecting it to be approved anyway.

How was the interview or have you done it yet?