Occupy Galway, fresh start thread

Dan_Solo

tightropetom wrote: »

He probably paid tax, helping reduce government debt... Just a thought :rolleyes:

Ah yes, well done on paying up for the Germans who took a punt on our tanking economy.
They'll send you a thank you card I'm sure.

ben.schlomo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah yes, well done on paying up for the Germans who took a punt on our tanking economy.
They'll send you a thank you card I'm sure.

Give up with the anti german crap or go join your man spouting rubbish on Williamsgate Street!!

Dan_Solo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Give up with the anti german crap or go join your man spouting rubbish on Williamsgate Street!!

What's anti-German about it? I don't blame them, I blame our politicians and all the FF/FG/Lab voters who are dumbfounded when their new government turns out exactly like the old one.
Germans are only squeezing what they can out of us because our politicians and electorate can't seem to get enough of it!

Shakti

The pertinent question is not 'What has the O.G. protest achieved?' but 'What has been achieved by removing the protest?'

gordongekko

KittyeeTrix wrote: »

gordongekko wrote: »

what did you hope to achieve?

Never mind......This particular Kitty is too old and too tired to fight with annonymous people on the interwebz

Have a good night!!;)

Good luck to the Occupy crowd.

huh!! im not looking for a fight. It was a very civil question. What would it have taken for the occupy movement to disband and leave our beautiful square on their own?

biko

Tbh, I'm haven't a clue what would have made them leave on their own volition, that's the problem with movements that are so diffuse in what they want.

kippy

gordongekko wrote: »

huh!! im not looking for a fight. It was a very civil question. What would it have taken for the occupy movement to disband and leave our beautiful square on their own?

This is the issue I suppose.
None of them, in as far as I could tell, were able to write down what was required to happen for them to be happy enough to leave the square and return to the day job.
I mean "down with corporate greed" wasn't really a goal.

tagfan

Back to their Dominick St. squats.

Re-reg user sitebanned by admins

teepee

I passed Erye Square this morning at 6 am , i was great to see the crusty camp gone it was a real eye sore . , why it was"nt done before this is beyond me .

Jack_Plumber

I want to take my hat off to the various people that had the courage to take a stand against the continual rape of this once proud country by the rich and powerful.

Ironic that the camp was dismantled in preparation for the Volvo Ocean Race.

Courage is a commodity in short supply in this banana republic.

I wonder when the powers that be will take action against the Seanie Fitzpatricks and bankers instead of sticking it to the small guys?

Irishgoatman

This is one hell of a coincidence but the Occupy camps in Moscow and Warsaw were also removed in the early hours of this morning, and the camp in St Johns, Newfoundland heard in advance that they were going to be evicted so removed the camp themselves last night, but all turned up, as spectators, to greet the police when they arrived.

I wonder if Conneely will take credit for all of this:mad:.

Shakti

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

Ironic that the camp was dismantled in preparation for the Volvo Ocean Race.

Quite Jack, but the race like other events in Galway do bring much needed currency to Galway. I would be of the opinion that the VOR has been used by those that feel threatened by protest/civil disobedience as a vehicle for their own agenda and AFAIK, VOR has never had an opinion regarding O.G. one way or the other.

jkforde

tagfan wrote: »

Back to their Dominick St. squats.

why do you and others on here feel the need to be nasty & derogatory? is it a lack of debating skills or just ignorance of the actual issues? refer to Biko's advice further back on contributing to this thread, I believe you have you transgressed both conditions.

Irishgoatman

Just been watching a youtube video from the St John's Newfoundland camp.
It seems that they were going to leave one tent up so as to give the police something to do:D.

Nice one:).

now that they have been removed this thread serves no purpose

Redhairedguy

Shakti wrote: »

AFAIK, VOR has never had an opinion regarding O.G. one way or the other.

It wasn't never the fear of the potential opinion of the Volvo Ocean Race that led to the dismantlement of the camp. It was the collective judgement of the Galway populace that it be removed before the summer of events kicks off. Whether it's the Film Fleadh/Arts Festival/Race Week or Volvo Ocean Race, we want to put our best face forward.

Yes, this can be construed as unjust and corrupt, but I for one (as a lifetime citizen of Galway) agree with it, and look forward to the throngs of people and wads of cash going into the tills of our city. Most visitors probably wouldn't care about the existence of the camp, but some would, and that's enough for me.

Dan_Solo

teepee wrote: »

I passed Erye Square this morning at 6 am , i was great to see the crusty camp gone it was a real eye sore . , why it was"nt done before this is beyond me .

Now you can see the 10 million waste of money eyesore Eyre Square in all its glory. Yay.

Shakti

Redhairedguy wrote: »

It wasn't never the fear of the potential opinion of the Volvo Ocean Race that led to the dismantlement of the camp. It was the collective judgement of the Galway populace that it be removed before the summer of events kicks off. Whether it's the Film Fleadh/Arts Festival/Race Week or Volvo Ocean Race, we want to put our best face forward.

Yes, this can be construed as unjust and corrupt, but I for one (as a lifetime citizen of Galway) agree with it, and look forward to the throngs of people and wads of cash going into the tills of our city. Most visitors probably wouldn't care about the existence of the camp, but some would, and that's enough for me.

Well with respect thats your personal opinion of the protests' removal not the "collective judgement of the Galway populace", also the VOR was and has been used by Padraig Conneely as the reason/motivation that the O.G. should be and has been dismantled as the minutes of many a council meeting in the last seven months will no doubt testify.

The real irony here is the zealousness of Conneely and his efforts to silence the dissent and remove the protest and their refusal in turn to comply, as it draws an ironic parallel to February last year when the Council almost unanimously voted to have Conneely himself expelled from the chamber and his subsequent refusal to comply with that expulsion, one rule for Padraig another rule for the rest it would seem as a matter of record.
http://www.galwaynews.ie/17646-conneely-row-escalates-he-refuses-accept-expulsion

Galwayguy35

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

I want to take my hat off to the various people that had the courage to take a stand against the continual rape of this once proud country by the rich and powerful.

Ironic that the camp was dismantled in preparation for the Volvo Ocean Race.

Courage is a commodity in short supply in this banana republic.

I wonder when the powers that be will take action against the Seanie Fitzpatricks and bankers instead of sticking it to the small guys?

What "stand" did they take? The people who protested on the streets at the FG and Labour ArdFheis (and I don't include the people who were abusing the Gardai and breaking through barriers) got their point across much more efficiently IMO than sitting in a tent for 7 months.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

This kind of rubbish is what I detest about o.g. and the kind of rather gullible people that fall for their propaganda. It's only a pity that their lies won't die with the camp.

The Irish government have not borrowed or paid out anywhere close to €100 billion to banks or developers .

The money paid by NAMA (€30 bln) was paid to banks to buy loans - developers haven't got a cent of that.

The government have put approx €20 billion (including promissory notes) into the banks.

The government have promised to cover up to €62.5 billion in bad debts, through the stress tests - a figure they won't reach due to BOIs capital raising activities - including the promissory notes to be paid to IBRC.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way.

1. "The reliance of lenders in Ireland on Irish and European central bank funding fell by €2 billion in the month to April 27th, according to figures published by the Central Bank yesterday.

The total amount of official lending to Irish commercial banks stood at about €128 billion, the Central Bank said, down from €130 billion in March.

Traditionally, central banks are “lenders of last resort” to the banking system, but the Irish banking system’s weakness, since 2008, has left lenders unable to borrow from private sources and forced them to resort to official central bank funding."

Source: Irish Times, May 12. [Emphasis added: IWH]
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0512/1224315982146.html


2. "The first phase of NAMA’s operation involved the acquisition and transfer of over €71 billion in loan assets.

[...]

The main factor which determined the price paid by NAMA for acquired loans was the current market value of the collateral (mainly property) securing the loans. Other factors included the adequacy or otherwise of loan documentation, the value of any pledged assets other than property (shares, cash, works of art, etc) and any deficiencies in loan security identified as part of the due diligence process. Taking all factors into account, the consideration paid by NAMA for loans acquired in 2010 was approximately 42% of nominal loan balances, representing an average discount of 58%."

Source: NAMA. http://www.nama.ie/about-us/

Emphasis added. The difference between the original €71 billion in loan assets and the discounted price paid by NAMA hasn't just evaporated -- somebody is going to have to take the hit, most likely the Irish taxpayer. It also seems clear that, despite the assurances and protestations of the late Brian Lenihan, NAMA is indeed a bailout for developers, with the tab to be picked up by Jo Citizen again.

NAMA took over the loans from the banks, but at a discount, and it appears that developers will pay back not what they initially borrowed but what NAMA paid the banks on the transfer of the loans.

Source: irish Times, October 5, 2011. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1005/1224305257468.html


3. The bank recapitalisation commitments made by the State to date total €62.8 billion.

Source: written answer from Michael Noonan, 18th April 2012.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/04/18/00125.asp

Wompa1

Shakti wrote: »

Well with respect thats your personal opinion of the protests' removal not the "collective judgement of the Galway populace", also the VOR was and has been used by Padraig Conneely as the reason/motivation that the O.G. should be and has been dismantled as the minutes of many a council meeting in the last seven months will no doubt testify.

The real irony here is the zealousness of Conneely and his efforts to silence the dissent and remove the protest and their refusal in turn to comply, as it draws an ironic parallel to February last year when the Council almost unanimously voted to have Conneely himself expelled from the chamber and his subsequent refusal to comply with that expulsion, one rule for Padraig another rule for the rest it would seem as a matter of record.
http://www.galwaynews.ie/17646-conneely-row-escalates-he-refuses-accept-expulsion

It was the opinion of the populace of Eyre Square...the business owners. If you started up a business and a bunch of people set up a camp across from it, how would you feel?

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

1. "The reliance of lenders in Ireland on Irish and European central bank funding fell by €2 billion in the month to April 27th, according to figures published by the Central Bank yesterday.

The total amount of official lending to Irish commercial banks stood at about €128 billion, the Central Bank said, down from €130 billion in March.

Traditionally, central banks are “lenders of last resort” to the banking system, but the Irish banking system’s weakness, since 2008, has left lenders unable to borrow from private sources and forced them to resort to official central bank funding."

Source: Irish Times, May 12. [Emphasis added: IWH]
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0512/1224315982146.html

OMG the banks are borrowing money.:rolleyes:

Just for the record the ELG figure are available here. If we're going to talk about debts we have to cover, lets use the real figures, not something that the brain dead Irish media are quoting.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

2. "The first phase of NAMA’s operation involved the acquisition and transfer of over €71 billion in loan assets.

[...]

The main factor which determined the price paid by NAMA for acquired loans was the current market value of the collateral (mainly property) securing the loans. Other factors included the adequacy or otherwise of loan documentation, the value of any pledged assets other than property (shares, cash, works of art, etc) and any deficiencies in loan security identified as part of the due diligence process. Taking all factors into account, the consideration paid by NAMA for loans acquired in 2010 was approximately 42% of nominal loan balances, representing an average discount of 58%."


Source: NAMA. http://www.nama.ie/about-us/

Emphasis added. The difference between the original €71 billion in loan assets and the discounted price paid by NAMA hasn't just evaporated -- somebody is going to have to take the hit, most likely the Irish taxpayer. It also seems clear that, despite the assurances and protestations of the late Brian Lenihan, NAMA is indeed a bailout for developers, with the tab to be picked up by Jo Citizen again.

NAMA took over the loans from the banks, but at a discount, and it appears that developers will pay back not what they initially borrowed but what NAMA paid the banks on the transfer of the loans.

Your point being what exactly? I want you to spell it out so that you can't do your usualy two stpe and say but that's not what I said.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Source: irish Times, October 5, 2011. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1005/1224305257468.html

Ah yes, nothing like a vincent browne diatribe to prove that the developers are having a good time:rolleyes:. The developers haven't been paid for their lands - in some cases they've been made bankrupt. NAMA is doing what's in it's best interests (hence mine as a taxpayer - whether or not I agree with the strategy employed) to maximise it's return.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

3. The bank recapitalisation commitments made by the State to date total €62.8 billion.

Source: written answer from Michael Noonan, 18th April 2012.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/04/18/00125.asp

Commitments - we could pay up to 62.8 billion. Could being the operative word. I suggest you read the NTMA's presentation to investors , paying particular attention to slides 44 & 47 which mentioend BOIs capital raising - which nobody has noticed men that the taxpayer don't have to stump for it! So the total that Noonan was talking about is a maximum figure of what we could have to pay. So that 6.28 should really be something of the order of 59.2-61.1

antoobrien

Lapin wrote: »

Read my post properly if you're going to quote it.

I did say after the eviction.

I don't care what they had no chance to do afterwards, they had seven months to clean it up BEFORE they got evicted.

Predalien

So far we've put €50b into the banks, I'll agree that's a reasonably accurate figure, but the interest per annum on that alone is what €2b (and rising, as each year when we borrow to pay the interest the total debt is added to)? Added to that, the promissory note (presently delayed to make it look like our deficit is reducing by more than it is) of another €3b or so a year, every year for the foreseeable future the bank debt will cost us at least €5b a year, it's hoped our deficit this year will be what €11/12b, that €5b is pretty shocking considering it's to pay the debts of a bank that no longer functions and merely covers the interest on the huge chunk of bank debt saddled on the Irish people, with no chance of it being paid off.

I wish the Irish Occupy movement had been more focused, it attached itself to too many causes when it would have been better had it aimed all it's anger at the outrageuos additional debt burden that has been levied on the Irish people, debt we have no chance of paying off, and debt that will stifle the Irish economy for generations.

books4sale

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The place looked a right mess on the news this evening as they were clearing it up. If I throw litter on the ground I get a fine and rightly so. These people should be also fined for the mess that was made. Fair is fair.

Too true.

Another waste of taxes having to clean up this mess, always the ordinary Irish people who are hit in the pocket.

Where are they now to clean up their mess?

Makes the blood boil.

Jack_Plumber

The stand they took was against the unfair bailout of banks. I agree that they took on other agendas and I believe that strategically this may have been unwise.
However, back to the stand taken… Anglo and Irish Permanent received €34.7 billion: this was done in the name of the Irish people. The debt incurred by these institutions by wreckless lending have been passed on to me and you and future taxpayers. This is as ridiculous and undemocratic as the losses of Kerrygold being borne by the fine people of County Kerry!

A billion is a million million. To put that figure into context, 34.7 billion seconds is 1,099,600 years! An important thing aspect of the Occupy protest is that they stayed there. God knows the debt that our unwise government have saddled us with to pay German and French bondholders will remain with future generations.
Whether the dignified stand by protestors at the Ard-Fheiseanna of the government parties, was more effective is a moot point – there is little evidence of any change in the policy of kowtowing to the ECB.
Remember that the ECB is culpable for providing excessive and cheap credit in Europe. Perhaps our best chances lay with France.
Our problem as a people is that fear has eclipsed our sense of outrage at injustice.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What "stand" did they take? The people who protested on the streets at the FG and Labour ArdFheis (and I don't include the people who were abusing the Gardai and breaking through barriers) got their point across much more efficiently IMO than sitting in a tent for 7 months.

biko

books4sale wrote: »

Too true.

Another waste of taxes having to clean up this mess, always the ordinary Irish people who are hit in the pocket.

Where are they now to clean up their mess?

Makes the blood boil.

I suspect getting turfed out at 4.30 in the morning didn't help matters.
During the time I never seen it particularly messy around the camp, besides it being very makeshift.
I wonder were they even given a chance to sort it themselves or did the council just send in cleaners and a TV crew?

antoobrien

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

A billion is a million million.

Not in finance. €1 billion = €1,000,000,000. That's why when the government publish their accounts the use thousands of millions to avoid confusion.

For the hostiry of short scale vs long scale take a gander on wikipedia

Jack_Plumber

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

A billion is a million million. To put that figure into context, 34.7 billion seconds is 1,099,600 years! An important thing aspect of the Occupy protest is that they stayed there. God knows the debt that our unwise government have saddled us with to pay German and French bondholders will remain with future generations.

A billion is a thousand million in this case.

http://www.ibrc.ie/About_us/Financial_information/Annual_Report/Annual_Report_2011.pdf
IBRC's total liabilities at the end of 2011 was €52,303,000,000.00

The bondholders included Irish credit unions and various others - it wasn't just big bad German banks.

specialops

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

The stand they took was against the unfair bailout of banks. I agree that they took on other agendas and I believe that strategically this may have been unwise.
However, back to the stand taken… Anglo and Irish Permanent received €34.7 billion: this was done in the name of the Irish people. The debt incurred by these institutions by wreckless lending have been passed on to me and you and future taxpayers. This is as ridiculous and undemocratic as the losses of Kerrygold being borne by the fine people of County Kerry!

A billion is a million million. To put that figure into context, 34.7 billion seconds is 1,099,600 years! An important thing aspect of the Occupy protest is that they stayed there. God knows the debt that our unwise government have saddled us with to pay German and French bondholders will remain with future generations.
Whether the dignified stand by protestors at the Ard-Fheiseanna of the government parties, was more effective is a moot point – there is little evidence of any change in the policy of kowtowing to the ECB.
Remember that the ECB is culpable for providing excessive and cheap credit in Europe. Perhaps our best chances lay with France.
Our problem as a people is that fear has eclipsed our sense of outrage at injustice.

what's news about this?? it's not like we don't know these facts, the sad thing about Occupy Galway is how little they really cared about encouraging ordinary people to join in.

From what I have seen, the lunatic left hijacked it, anyone asking questions or disagreeing in any minor way was without exception dismissed out of hand, censored from their fb page, called names , accused of trolling, being a sheep, being abusive, the list goes on, and some of these people were only asking about where public donations, which were positively FLOWING into the camp in the early days, were being spent.

This is plain to see on their fb page, and it is also why they opened up 'closed groups' so they could control who said what.

How on earth was this encouraging public debate on issues? How was this kind of tyranny encouraging any kind of devolution within the group?

No wonder they alienated so many.