Untrained 53 year old vs 20~ year old in an MMA cage; guess what happens...

cowzerp

MrStuffins wrote: »

If i'm not mistaken, there have been more than 100 deaths in professional boxing bouts since 1998. Countless brain injuries also.

I agree Boxing is more Brutal than MMA, I know it is over a 1000 intotal which is crazy, and in the hundreds even in amateur but with todays medical tests most problems are caught early and fighters cant fight unless healthy.


from 1998-2006 there where 70 boxing deaths, 70 to many, one in MMA in the same time frame

Plastikman_eire

cowzerp wrote: »

from 1998-2006 there where 70 boxing deaths, 70 to many, one in MMA in the same time frame

That doesnt really compare like for like though, during that period the number of boxing bouts would have seriously outweighed the number of mma bouts.

Even taking that into account, there are more deaths in boxing in a single year then in mma since its inception.

cowzerp

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

That doesnt really compare like for like though, during that period the number of boxing bouts would have seriously outweighed the number of mma bouts.

Even taking that into account, there are more deaths in boxing in a single year then in mma since its inception.

Well it gives you something to work with-Boxing averages 10 deaths a year, it is a brutal sport and if the medical testing yearly was not there it would be worse.

Ireland has never had an Amateur or Proffesional death

El Guapo!

Here's an interesting piece on mma safety.

Mixed Martial Arts competitions have changed dramatically since the first Ultimate Fighting Championship in 1993, specifically with the inception of the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts. The overall injury rate in MMA competitions is currently similar to other combat sports, including boxing.
A study by Johns Hopkins University concluded, "the overall injury rate [excluding injury to the brain] in MMA competitions is now similar to other combat sports [involving striking], including boxing. Knockout rates are lower in MMA competitions than in boxing. This suggests a reduced risk of traumatic brain injury in MMA competitions when compared to other events involving striking."
In preliminary results reported in April 2012 as part of an ongoing study of a 109 professional boxers and MMA fighters being conducted by Dr. Charles Bernick and his colleagues at Cleveland Clinic’s Lou Ruvo Center for Brain Health, fighters with more than six years of ring experience were observed to have reductions in size in their hippocampus and thalamus whereas fighters with more than twelve years of ring experience were observed to have both reductions in size and symptoms such as memory loss (the hippocampus and thalamus deal with memory and alertness). Dr. Bernick speculates that studying cumulative lesser blows may eventually prove even more important than studying infrequent concussions.
Fatalities
While competition in the MMA have been occasionally depicted as brutal by the media, there were no documented cases of deaths after a sanctioned MMA event prior to 2007.
In the period of 2007 to 2010, there were two fatalities in mixed martial arts matches. The first was the death of Sam Vasquez on November 30, 2007. Vasquez collapsed shortly after being knocked out by Vince Libardi in the third round of an October 20, 2007 fight at the Toyota Center in Houston, Texas. Vasquez had two separate surgeries to remove blood clots from his brain, and shortly after the second operation suffered a devastating stroke and never regained consciousness. While questions have been asked about Vasquez's health before his final bout, no firm indications of pre-existing problems have yet surfaced. The second death stemming from a sanctioned mixed martial arts contest occurred in South Carolina on June 28, 2010, when 30-year old Michael Kirkham was knocked out and never regained consciousness. He was pronounced dead two days after the fight.

MrStuffins

if people were to understand MMA, they'd realise it's infinitely safer than Boxing. Yet Boxing is widely accepted.

And letting 53 year old lads slap on a pair of gloves and jump into a ring with a trained MMA guy flies against all of the safety regulations in place!

Fall_Guy

MrStuffins wrote: »

My point was, the poster was claiming that the reason that people have a problem with MMA is not because how the sport is perceived, like Human Cock Fighting, No Holds Barred fighting etc, but because of the nature of the sport.

But he is wrong about this. And I used the comparison of Boxing to make that point. SOME people have a problem with Boxing, but it is one of the most mainstream sports in the world, one of the richest in the world, despite being much more brutal than MMA. If i'm not mistaken, there have been more than 100 deaths in professional boxing bouts since 1998. Countless brain injuries also.

Whereas in MMA, there have been more deaths in Soccer in the past 6 months than there have been in MMA in the history of the sport.

The unacceptance of MMA is nothing to do with "The Nature of the Sport". If people were actually educated to MMA, and you completely forget about the Joe Duffy crowd (which we should 100% of the time) then there wouldn't be much said against MMA.

If Boxing is at the level of acceptance it is, there is no reason why MMA could not be, despite the nature of the sport.

yeah, would agree that its all down to perception to a large extent, but I don't see how this clip would have a hugely negative effect on people's perception of MMA.....at least no greater effect than the likes of Toughman contests have on people's perceptions of boxing.

I think the average person sees the sport as "brutal / barbaric". I would imagine a clip where there is a lot of blood covering the bodies of the fighters or a world champion licking the blood off his gloves does more to reinforce peoples perceptions or the sport as overly brutal (i'm not saying it is, i'm just saying that images like that are what feed the Joe Duffy brigade's moral outrage, not a human interest story like this).

cowzerp

Fall_Guy wrote: »

yeah, would agree that its all down to perception to a large extent, but I don't see how this clip would have a hugely negative effect on people's perception of MMA.....at least no greater effect than the likes of Toughman contests have on people's perceptions of boxing.

I think the average person sees the sport as "brutal / barbaric". I would imagine a clip where there is a lot of blood covering the bodies of the fighters or a world champion licking the blood off his gloves does more to reinforce peoples perceptions or the sport as overly brutal (i'm not saying it is, i'm just saying that images like that are what feed the Joe Duffy brigade's moral outrage, not a human interest story like this).

Toughman competitions are not considered real Boxing so the press can't have a go at the Boxing world for them, This was an actual MMA event that let some owl lad jump in and have a go-Boxing is also really established worldwide anyway so even if this did happen which it could not by the way-It would not make much difference, In this case all went ok so it's not to bad, Imagine he was hurt-Then the press would have legit reasons to knock the sport and would go to town on it.

As a Coach, Fan and fighter i think it was terrible.

MrStuffins

Fall_Guy wrote: »

yeah, would agree that its all down to perception to a large extent, but I don't see how this clip would have a hugely negative effect on people's perception of MMA.....at least no greater effect than the likes of Toughman contests have on people's perceptions of boxing.

Maybe, but as I said, I wasn't talking about perceptions. I was answering the post with regards to the nature of the sport rather than how it's perceived.

mdwexford

MrStuffins wrote: »

Whereas in MMA, there have been more deaths in Soccer in the past 6 months than there have been in MMA in the history of the sport.
.

Lol at this.

MrStuffins

mdwexford wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

Whereas in MMA, there have been more deaths in Soccer in the past 6 months than there have been in MMA in the history of the sport.
.

Lol at this.

Great contribution. Pat on the back for you.

mdwexford

MrStuffins wrote: »

Great contribution. Pat on the back for you.

Just because you post a lot doesn't mean your contributions are worthwhile.

Your post was stupid so it got an ample reply.

MrStuffins

mdwexford wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

Great contribution. Pat on the back for you.

Just because you post a lot doesn't mean your contributions are worthwhile.

Your post was stupid so it got an ample reply.

I never said my contributions were worthwhile. That's a matter of opinion. However, when I discuss here I ALWAYS do my best to completely back myself up with opinion, facts, critical thinking..... its the essence of discussion. And for me, a reasoned argument is always worthwhile, whether one agrees or not.

However, this is a discussion forum. If you have a bone to pick with a post, do so. But saying "lol at this" and "your post is stupid" does nothing for you. At least try back yourself up!

One of the reasons, imo, that this forum is so good compared to others like the Soccer forum and the likes of Sherdog etc is because we tend to engage in actual discussion here with minimal trolling and posts like "lol". It's one of the main reasons I post here a lot and not on the other forums I mentioned.

By the way, 3 players have died on the pitch while playing football since last Nov, 5 in the past year.

Number of mixed martial artists who have died since the beginning of the sport: 2.

I don't see what you're problem is. Maybe if you engaged in discussion instead of trying to have a go at me that wouldnt be a problem.

Mellor

I think his point was that it's a meaningless statistic. Far more people take part in football than MMA for a start, so total deaths is irrelevant. Deaths on the pitch were related to underlying medical conditions and nit the sport itself. Like people collapsing during marathons. Doesn't mean running is dangerous. And even if it was it wouldn't make MMA any safer. You only highlighted it as its in favour for MMA.

Of course I'm if the opinion that MMA is safe. And I will argue with anyone who says otherwise. But random stats like that prove nothing. It is an incredibly weak argument, the kind of stuff id expect from Joe Duffy and IMO you do more harm than good by sinking to that level.

MrStuffins

Maybe you're right Mellor. Of course I see you're point of view. It was a facecious argument to show that MMA is not a dangerous sport. Like how you'd say "youve more chance of getting killed by a donkey".

It was part of a perception v nature debate also.

Also, you said it was a "weak argument". That wasn't my argument, my argument is contained in the posts earlier in the thread. The quote was a snippet of a larger argument. It was also a slighted reference to a post earlier in the thread comparing this incident to someone playing Sunday League football.

I have no problem with counter arguments to mine. But quoting 1 sentence of a long post and saying "your post is stupid" helps nobody. Especially when we're trying to actually have a discussion.

El Guapo!

Statistics have to be put into context. Statistically fishing is the most dangerous sport in the world. Hundreds of people drown every year while fishing but that doesn't mean people should avoid fishing or ban it altogether.
The factor that needs to be considered is what's the likelyhood of being seriously injured or killed while competing. When you consider that, mma carries a certain risk of course. But imo its considerably less of a risk than boxing or other sports.
I agree that just posting comments like "lol" without backing up your argument is pointless. And as MrStuffins said, it adds nothing to the forum which is by and large the best forum around imo....partly because people here generally have well thought out and well balanced discussions.

MrStuffins

Indeed.

and when you look at fatalities is MMA and those in Boxing, its plain to see which is the safer sport.

And one of the reasons we've yet to see a big name suffer a fatality in MMA is because mismatches are few and far between. And when they happen, the opponent isn't put in the position where they are beaten to the ground by their much stronger rival and given 8 seconds to "recover" before starting again.

The horribly high level of record padding and instances of talented fighters put in against overmatched journeymen to make the prospect look good we see every weekend in Boxing doesn't exist to the same extent in MMA.

And then you've got this, a fat old man being allowed jump in the cage to fight. Terrible!

reganreggie

Peter jones said it best tonight at man of war tonight. Everytime you step into the ring your an ambassidor for the sport. Things like this make the sport and the mma community look terrible

cowzerp

reganreggie wrote: »

Peter jones said it best tonight at man of war tonight. Everytime you step into the ring your an ambassidor for the sport. Things like this make the sport and the mma community look terrible

You sure that wasn't David Lavery! or maybe David Jones-would be cool if it was a clone of both. Peter Jones just is a Boring name though so let's call it/him David Lavery.

reganreggie

Sorry was going to say the bald ref but that would not have narrowed it down.

Barry.Oglesby

cowzerp wrote: »

You sure that wasn't David Lavery! or maybe David Jones-would be cool if it was a clone of both. Peter Jones just is a Boring name though so let's call it/him David Lavery.

I think that would be the least different looking clone/hybrid in the world!

cowzerp

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I think that would be the least different looking clone/hybrid in the world!

Yeah but with switchable accents everyone could understand the rules meetings.

I got mistook for Dave jones yesterday too! Had full chat only for him to go in about me teaching in college and giving it away! Strange

Barry.Oglesby

cowzerp wrote: »

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I think that would be the least different looking clone/hybrid in the world!

Yeah but with switchable accents everyone could understand the rules meetings.

I got mistook for Dave jones yesterday too! Had full chat only for him to go in about me teaching in college and giving it away! Strange

Peter has an accent? I thought he was just speaking Spanish or something...

Oranage2

I dont know what the big deal is?

Too many MMA snobs and it's making it not fun anymore.

What exactly is wrong?

2 guys by the looks of it only starting out, they looked equally matched so no risk of injury other than the expected and getting their first run out.

Do people think only fighters with 3rd degree brazilian Jiu jitsu trained by some technical sensei master should be allowed fight?

Is MMA only for people under 52 only?
Are beginners not allowed have a go?

If people dont want to watch fighters fight then they should probably watch Kick-boxing arobics or something :rolleyes:

MrStuffins

Oranage2 wrote: »

I dont know what the big deal is?

Too many MMA snobs and it's making it not fun anymore.

What exactly is wrong?

You don't see anything wrong with this?

2 guys by the looks of it only starting out, they looked equally matched so no risk of injury other than the expected and getting their first run out.

Starting out in what exactly? The 53 year old wasn't a fighter, he was a spectator! A man who was untrained in MMA!

No risk of injury? This is full contact combat, mixed martial arts, since when is there no risk of injury?

Do people think only fighters with 3rd degree brazilian Jiu jitsu trained by some technical sensei master should be allowed fight?

IMO, the least someone needs before they fight is to be trained. I have no idea what your logic is in saying it's perfectly fine for someone who has had zero training to get into a cage with a trained MMA guy.

Is MMA only for people under 52 only?

No.

Are beginners not allowed have a go?

It all depends on what you consider a beginner. In my experience, a person's first taste of MMA is never inside the cage in a match, normaly they take classes first and reach a certain level. Normally their trainer will tell them whether they think they are ready.

If people dont want to watch fighters fight then they should probably watch Kick-boxing arobics or something :rolleyes:

People DO want to watch fighters. That's why they have a problem with those who AREN'T fighters in the cage.

Fenian Army

MrStuffins wrote: »

Indeed.

and when you look at fatalities is MMA and those in Boxing, its plain to see which is the safer sport.

And one of the reasons we've yet to see a big name suffer a fatality in MMA is because mismatches are few and far between. And when they happen, the opponent isn't put in the position where they are beaten to the ground by their much stronger rival and given 8 seconds to "recover" before starting again.

The horribly high level of record padding and instances of talented fighters put in against overmatched journeymen to make the prospect look good we see every weekend in Boxing doesn't exist to the same extent in MMA.

And then you've got this, a fat old man being allowed jump in the cage to fight. Terrible!

You'd know better, I'm new to watching it, but didnt that happen a lot in Pride?

Barry.Oglesby

Age is just a number after all. Deadly for a guy being 53 and still able for that. But y'know, give him a medical and maybe some time to prepare. The risks outweigh the rewards there!

MrStuffins

Fenian Army wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

Indeed.

and when you look at fatalities is MMA and those in Boxing, its plain to see which is the safer sport.

And one of the reasons we've yet to see a big name suffer a fatality in MMA is because mismatches are few and far between. And when they happen, the opponent isn't put in the position where they are beaten to the ground by their much stronger rival and given 8 seconds to "recover" before starting again.

The horribly high level of record padding and instances of talented fighters put in against overmatched journeymen to make the prospect look good we see every weekend in Boxing doesn't exist to the same extent in MMA.

And then you've got this, a fat old man being allowed jump in the cage to fight. Terrible!

You'd know better, I'm new to watching it, but didnt that happen a lot in Pride?

Yup! And similar stuff like blatant mismstches and freakshow matches still take place to a certain extent in the likes of DREAM! But its a different kettle of fish over there.

The Japanese, a great bunch of lads!

Mellor

Fenian Army wrote: »

You'd know better, I'm new to watching it, but didnt that happen a lot in Pride?

He was prob refering a lot more to Pride, SF, Dream, Xcite/Unreal/Hardcore MMA etc than the UFC.