New Powers

hayzer

Anybody know anything about new powers for the reserves?

bluetop

hayzer wrote: »

Anybody know anything about new powers for the reserves?

What powers would they be ??

hayzer

*shrugs shoulders*

DMRW

Why would you want more powers? Are you already using you current powers to a full extent?

bluetop

DMRW wrote: »

Why would you want more powers? Are you already using you current powers to a full extent?

And what would they be exactly, public order powers, ohhh wait they dont have them, s23 powers, mmm, or them, s41 ohh no they dont have them either, so what have they got exactly, yes very very little. ):

DMRW

bluetop wrote: »

And what would they be exactly, public order powers, ohhh wait they dont have them, s23 powers, mmm, or them, s41 ohh no they dont have them either, so what have they got exactly, yes very very little. ):

You can use s23, if directed by a full time member, that is called assisting. If there is a reasonable cause for that.

S41? Lets say you use that on Monday for no insurance, tax, nct, whatever. If the owner paid the fee, or proved that he had everything in order next day on Tuesday, who will release the car?

I won't even start on public order powers. Its a pain in you know where to go to court and give evidence for the reserve, its the same pain for the member to go with the reserve and prosecute some scrote, who was abusive or drunk. For going to court I'm losing may days wages, or have to ask my employer for some sort of arrangement, and all I can claim back is a poxy bus fare. The best thing of being a reserve is that you don't have to do all the paperwork. I don't know anyone who would love that.

Regarding existing powers, make few lawful demands, wait till they fail to produce, ask a member to summons them and go to court. Thats only one example.

I think I know now the reason, why some of the stations will keep the reserves inside the station all the time. Same goes for the full time members "assigned to administrative duties"...

My personal point on all "more power" concept is:

1. More powers = more resposibilities = more expenses = more time consumption. Unless I'm being paid for that (which is ludicrous at this climate) I don't need more powers.

2. More power = more hastle for full time members (because they will have to deal with the consequenses of your actions) = administrative duties.

bluetop

DMRW wrote: »

You can use s23, if directed by a full time member, that is called assisting. If there is a reasonable cause for that.

S41? Lets say you use that on Monday for no insurance, tax, nct, whatever. If the owner paid the fee, or proved that he had everything in order next day on Tuesday, who will release the car?

First the vehicle would be collected and brought to the pound, where the person then would have to come to station and get a release form, after they produced the appropriate documents, after that the person would have to make there way to the pound to collect their vehicle after paying the appropriate fee.

Reserves cannot do 41 for vehicles that dont have Road Tax, and there is no 41 for NCT points and summons.

I won't even start on public order powers. Its a pain in you know where to go to court and give evidence for the reserve, its the same pain for the member to go with the reserve and prosecute some scrote, who was abusive or drunk. For going to court I'm losing may days wages, or have to ask my employer for some sort of arrangement, and all I can claim back is a poxy bus fare. The best thing of being a reserve is that you don't have to do all the paperwork. I don't know anyone who would love that.

If you are going as a witness you job still has to pay you, as that is a summons served on you to attend court.

They also have court presenters for court appearance using tracking forms.

Regarding existing powers, make few lawful demands, wait till they fail to produce, ask a member to summons them and go to court. Thats only one example.

You can do that yourself you dont need another member to do that for you

I think I know now the reason, why some of the stations will keep the reserves inside the station all the time. Same goes for the full time members "assigned to administrative duties"...

My personal point on all "more power" concept is:

1. More powers = more resposibilities = more expenses = more time consumption. Unless I'm being paid for that (which is ludicrous at this climate) I don't need more powers.

So you want to be a Garda, but you dont want any of the responsibility that comes with it, i am sure when you joined you knew what you signed up for.

2. More power = more hastle for full time members (because they will have to deal with the consequenses of your actions) = administrative duties.

Your actions your consequences not theirs, your ass on the pot.

Answers in bold above hope they help.

DMRW

I'll tell you something, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the whole reserve thing, fair play to you. But my point of view is, being a guard is a job, and you work to live, not live to work. Over-enthusiasm, in most of the cases, is a negative trend.

Lets get back to the start. Why do people join the guards in the first place?

DMRW

bluetop wrote: »

Your actions your consequences not theirs, your ass on the pot.

You are very wrong here, but I hope it works for you.

Tyron Jara

DMRW wrote: »

You are very wrong here, but I hope it works for you.

Well your full timer will get a roasting but the reserves ass would be in the pot.

Personally if we are to get new powers I'm all up for it but I want to be trained up more for the use of those powers! Gota remember though were just an extra pair of hands.

TylerIE

DMRW wrote: »

Why would you want more powers? Are you already using you current powers to a full extent?

Good point!

There are quite a few powers and duties one can do.

Some reserves do - some dont. Demanding Insurance / License, dealing with failure to produce, creation of incidents on pulse, and theft / burglary / certain Public Order Offences (S19 jumps out) are "Arrestable Offences", which it seems not many reserves do.

With the right training, experience and planning, reserves could contribute a little more than just being a third pair of hands at a brawl. If their role was expanded a little and clarified nationwide then it would perhaps allow those who currently do little to fit into their unit as more than the "extra pair of hands" on Saturday night.

DMRW

Tyron Jara wrote: »

Well your full timer will get a roasting but the reserves ass would be in the pot.

Personally if we are to get new powers I'm all up for it but I want to be trained up more for the use of those powers! Gota remember though were just an extra pair of hands.

Sometimes you have to put your arse in the pot for the lads, this is the way you earn respect, and prove your whorthiness. Just don't over do it, or you'll burn.

DMRW

TylerIE wrote: »

Good point!

There are quite a few powers and duties one can do.

Some reserves do - some dont. Demanding Insurance / License, dealing with failure to produce, creation of incidents on pulse, and theft / burglary / certain Public Order Offences (S19 jumps out) are "Arrestable Offences", which it seems not many reserves do.

With the right training, experience and planning, reserves could contribute a little more than just being a third pair of hands at a brawl. If their role was expanded a little and clarified nationwide then it would perhaps allow those who currently do little to fit into their unit as more than the "extra pair of hands" on Saturday night.

Again, it depends on ones personality and sometimes you can be a prisoner of fortune depending on the station and reserve managing policies. Some reserves in my station is very valued and loved, some had to resign, and mostly its because of their personality and not finding a place within the organisation.

bluetop

DMRW wrote: »

Again, it depends on ones personality and sometimes you can be a prisoner of fortune depending on the station and reserve managing policies. Some reserves in my station is very valued and loved, some had to resign, and mostly its because of their personality and not finding a place within the organisation.

You seem to be well in the know, can i ask you how long you are a reserve, ?, as for people resigning their position, that can be down to a number of things, harassment, bullying by others, of course HQ think when people resign its for the reason of going to work abroad etc, why, because nobody bothers to put anything on paper.

As people are well aware there are plenty of stations one can move to, or change of units, if reserves are having problems with other members the first call is to your Sgt, if that goes on deaf ears next step is the Ins, after that its the super, chief super if you want to go that far.

Folks just make sure you keep a copy and send a copy to the reserves office in the park as well, make sure you have a copy of everything you put on paper, we all know too well how paper goes missing.

DMRW

Bluetop, I know various issues and reasons, including bullying, which sometimes is an issue and its wrong. Again, I'll repeat mysefl, being a guard is just a job. Over the years I have worked in many differend organizations and held different positions. Garda is the same organisation as the rest, and you will always get clash of personalities where ever you go.

Being a guard is not for everyone. I heard stories when student gardai gave up after first night on the streets. I know the guards with 10, 15, 28 years of service and they are still enjoying the job.

Being a reserve can be challenging and tough, but it can be really enjoyable and rewarding. Which one is it, depends purely on your personality and your ability to adapt, and I have to say it is a difficult task.

Due to the whole publicity, I cannot spill the beans here, as in contrast to private companies, instead litigation you can get something more serious.

Yogi Bear

MEMBERS OF the Garda Reserve are to have their powers increased to deal with public order offences and the seizure of vehicles, Minister for Justice Alan Shatter has told the Dáil.
Training to deal with domestic violence, child-protection and conflict-resolution will begin later this year for members of the Garda Reserve, who will also be issued with Tetra radios on duty.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0621/1224318356685.html

Myrddin

Yogi Bear wrote: »

MEMBERS OF the Garda Reserve are to have their powers increased to deal with public order offences and the seizure of vehicles, Minister for Justice Alan Shatter has told the Dáil.
Training to deal with domestic violence, child-protection and conflict-resolution will begin later this year for members of the Garda Reserve, who will also be issued with Tetra radios on duty.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0621/1224318356685.html

Wow, so its really happening?! I wonder what the training will be like :cool:

Tyron Jara

Wowie this is amazing. I cant believe its actually happening?

Rob6052

Are they saying they will give us personal issue tetra radios ?

Myrddin

Rob6052 wrote: »

Are they saying they will give us personal issue tetra radios ?

Either that, or else the pool radios used aren't officially sanctioned at the moment

TylerIE

EnterNow wrote: »

Either that, or else the pool radios used aren't officially sanctioned at the moment

Or its the usual lack of fact checking that happens in some newspapers... like the Air Corps chopper being referred to as a different model the other day.

Tyron Jara

TylerIE wrote: »

Or its the usual lack of fact checking that happens in some newspapers... like the Air Corps chopper being referred to as a different model the other day.

Im hoping its tetras for each individual member. Im all for increasing our powers but will this mean we will be given a roster to work on and our minimum hours increased to utilise us more or will it still be well call you for an event kinda thing where it is some places.

bluetop

Tyron Jara wrote: »

Im hoping its tetras for each individual member. Im all for increasing our powers but will this mean we will be given a roster to work on and our minimum hours increased to utilise us more or will it still be well call you for an event kinda thing where it is some places.

There should be no restrictions on the hrs you work, that is up to you, can you not give your hrs you want to work to your skipper in advance, or like most others do just go in, they are so short on units now im sure they will use you to fill a gap.

Tyron Jara

bluetop wrote: »

There should be no restrictions on the hrs you work, that is up to you, can you not give your hrs you want to work to your skipper in advance, or like most others do just go in, they are so short on units now im sure they will use you to fill a gap.

I can but I know people that cannot.

TylerIE

bluetop wrote: »

There should be no restrictions on the hrs you work, that is up to you, can you not give your hrs you want to work to your skipper in advance, or like most others do just go in, they are so short on units now im sure they will use you to fill a gap.

I know some who are only do 4 hrs at a time as their skips interpretation of the published material (which mentions minimum 4 hours) is that 4 hours is the way it should be.

There are many who cannot just go in, they must get rostered in advance.

Like everything to do with the reserve it varies massively from district to district.

Tyron Jara

TylerIE wrote: »

I know some who are only do 4 hrs at a time as their skips interpretation of the published material (which mentions minimum 4 hours) is that 4 hours is the way it should be.

There are many who cannot just go in, they must get rostered in advance.

Like everything to do with the reserve it varies massively from district to district.

Very true. Although I feel you should be able to work out a monthly roster off the skipper for the 4 weekends of that month for when they most need you. I have times were im guessing when im needed and its dead quiet and there is really no need for a reserve.

However with these new powers and responsibilities a reserve should get a roster that is agreed to by the sgt and reserve that they can stick too for shifts.

Next shatter will let reserves on duty by themselves haha:P I shouldn't joke actually he might just do that

bluetop

TylerIE wrote: »

I know some who are only do 4 hrs at a time as their skips interpretation of the published material (which mentions minimum 4 hours) is that 4 hours is the way it should be.

There are many who cannot just go in, they must get rostered in advance.

Like everything to do with the reserve it varies massively from district to district.

The min is 4 hrs that is to make sure you get your hours in over the year of 208, which i also hear is going to be increased, there is no max hrs you can work, as long as you are available of course.

I know some folk that try and get the 208 in as quick as they can, then they are not seen for months after that, if you can do more than the required min that is great, the more the full timers will see you and get to know you the better, they will also get to know your strengths and weaknesses as well, it really helps you better if you are in you can gel better with your unit.

endacl

There's a rumour going around that the new powers will include x-ray vision and telekenesis.

Use them wisely...

Myrddin

bluetop wrote: »

I know some folk that try and get the 208

Just to veer ot slightly for a second, in your first year, do all the hours in the college & weeknights at a station for Phase 2 count as hours committed?

bluetop

EnterNow wrote: »

Just to veer ot slightly for a second, in your first year, do all the hours in the college & weeknights at a station for Phase 2 count as hours committed?

No your hours in the collage do and 40hrs in the station as well, anything over that dont count.

bluetop

endacl wrote: »

There's a rumour going around that the new powers will include x-ray vision and telekenesis.

Use them wisely...

Sure we have that already, you must have missed out on yours, i would contact Hq about yours !

Myrddin

bluetop wrote: »

No your hours in the collage do and 40hrs in the station as well, anything over that dont count.

Grand so aside from whatever R.85's I submit, the college hours & probationary 40 will be added on top? Cool. Finally, does the minimum hour period begin from when the initial training begins?

bluetop

EnterNow wrote: »

Grand so aside from whatever R.85's I submit, the college hours & probationary 40 will be added on top? Cool. Finally, does the minimum hour period begin from when the initial training begins?

If you are fully attested what ever hours you done training, plus your 40 hrs station training they will be added to your total hours, if you do over your 208 hrs for the year you do not get paid for the extra hrs worked, they are down to yourself.

Your yearly account starts from the first day in collage, so if you say started the 30th May 2012, your r85 will be due to be sent away 30th May 2013.

Yogi Bear

Any one get a call about training in Templemore?

Myrddin

Yogi Bear wrote: »

Any one get a call about training in Templemore?

I got an electronic mail about it yep

Big-Mac

EnterNow wrote: »

I got an electronic mail about it yep

Me too, if anyone is driving down to the college from Dublin on Wednesday and wants a few euros towards diesel PM me.

Spartan09

Yep got an email about it last week, seems like the upskilling, as its called in the documentation will cover public order, theft, child protection, domestic violence and more road traffic legislation. New powers won't be rolled out until all attested reserves have completed the training. From what I've been told Feb 13 is when the new powers will become operational for reserves on the streets.

Gsk2011

I dont know if the new powers are a good or bad thing, If we have those powers will it put off full time recruitment even longer as they will have us doing it for free.

Tyron Jara

Gsk2011 wrote: »

I dont know if the new powers are a good or bad thing, If we have those powers will it put off full time recruitment even longer as they will have us doing it for free.

Pro: It l be good to have training in these new powers and experience using them when going for full time you'll look even more attractive tot he interview board.

Con: Yes itl put back recruitment for another while yet.

bluetop

Gsk2011 wrote: »

I dont know if the new powers are a good or bad thing, If we have those powers will it put off full time recruitment even longer as they will have us doing it for free.

Full time recruitment is 2yrs away so don't hold your breath, reserves needed these powers to fulfill their duties properly, even the full timers will tell ya that, its a welcomed step forward for the reserves and can only be view as a good thing, hopefully this will integrate the reserves better, this is only the start of things to come.

The clock stands still for no one progress has to be made and the country has to move forward not backwards, which it has been doing for years, there is no more Celtic tiger so the country has to make the best of things, the uk specials have full powers so why should Ireland be any different, they also have pcso who have no powers yet still do patrol work, and they all work along side a full time service, that is all Ireland are doing now they are catching up with the rest of the world and about time as well.

TylerIE

Gsk2011 wrote: »

I dont know if the new powers are a good or bad thing, If we have those powers will it put off full time recruitment even longer as they will have us doing it for free.

The few times reserves are fully utilised would not be enough to hold back recruitment.

Reserves may save a bit on overtime at major events but that would be it - they don't prepare cases, perform investigations, drive, do SO or Member in charge, etc. I don't know if they even do save overtime - more likely than not events / big public order nights would be run on a skeleton staf with members re rostered from other units as there isn't even the money for the overtime.

It's already happened in one district in our area where reserves are never used - skeletal Garda numbers with members rerostered divisionally (with a few hours overtime + travel). No reserves used.

Yogi Bear

Any update on these new powers we were supposed to get at the start of the year. Its 8 months now since we gave up a days pay to be up-skilled in Templemore.

TylerIE

Yogi Bear wrote: »

Any update on these new powers we were supposed to get at the start of the year. Its 8 months now since we gave up a days pay to be up-skilled in Templemore.

Since you travelled down to Tipperary at your own expense to pay for your own lunch for upskilling in addition to losing a days work... For new powers that were referred to in the Dail a year or more ago... And powers that originally reserves were supposed to have.

A.G.S

Yogi Bear wrote: »

Any update on these new powers we were supposed to get at the start of the year. Its 8 months now since we gave up a days pay to be up-skilled in Templemore.

Rumor flying round that they will be announced at the Garda reserve graduation on the 15th of this month,

Yogi Bear

A.G.S wrote: »

Rumor flying round that they will be announced at the Garda reserve graduation on the 15th of this month,

.

Thats great news. Thanks A.G.S

msg11

We will need a refresher at this rate there taking so long to roll them out !

msg11

Nearly sure that from today we can now use the new powers :pac:

King Ludvig

What was said about the new powers msg?

TylerIE

msg11 wrote: »

Nearly sure that from today we can now use the new powers :pac:

Afraid not

Tyron Jara

New Powers
Some time ago, following a review of the Garda Reserve, the Commissioner decided to extend their powers. These new powers cover such areas as Domestic Violence, Child protection, Conflict Resolution, Bullying and Harassment, Out of Vehicle Safety Training and other matters. You have been trained in all these additional powers and I hope you use these powers well. I understand from the Commissioner that the training of all the other Reserve members will be completed in the very near future.


Dont have them yet but soon though

TylerIE

Tyron Jara wrote: »

New Powers
Some time ago, following a review of the Garda Reserve, the Commissioner decided to extend their powers. These new powers cover such areas as Domestic Violence, Child protection, Conflict Resolution, Bullying and Harassment, Out of Vehicle Safety Training and other matters. You have been trained in all these additional powers and I hope you use these powers well. I understand from the Commissioner that the training of all the other Reserve members will be completed in the very near future.


Dont have them yet but soon though

Don't believe it... Last three training days had only about a hundred people at most - meaning there's still about two hundred to train.


Bear in mind that many of them probably haven't been seen in years and nobody cares in their stations and that some are overseas and we will have to wait until they are dismissed "in absentia",

So it will be a long time before we see these powers! I would be far from shocked if some reserves havnt started in the regular by then.

Don't forget that despite the review making a recommendation regarding reserves access to intelligence and that recommendation was rejected by the commissioner.