How long out of Date Can Gardai impound Car For No Tax??

JamesBond2010

I just want to find how long out of date can gardai impound your car for having no car tax?? If it is a month out of date can they impound your car.. or is it still 2 months??

tnx

Jimdagym

A mate had one taken off him at a checkpoint 1 month and 3 days expired.

CharlieCroker

^^^^^^^^
No he didn't, because there's no legislation to allow a guard take a car just for tax if it's out for less than 2 months. It was more than tax he had out if it was siezed!


Tax - 2 months

Insurance/NCT- no limit

xxlauraxxox

i thought was 90days

JamesBond2010

grand tnx i just enquiring for someone else, my own lucky enough is up to date..

JamesBond2010

xxlauraxxox wrote: »

i thought was 90days

thats 2 mths laura

xxlauraxxox

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

thats 2 mths laura

nope its 3months :P 30*3 :P hehe

CharlieCroker

xxlauraxxox wrote: »

i thought was 90days

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

thats 2 mths laura

Ehhhhh........try again :P

challengemaster

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

thats 2 mths laura

jesus, which months have 45 days in them? :eek:

Jimdagym

challengemaster wrote: »

jesus, which months have 45 days in them? :eek:

This one feels like it!

Pataman

Jimdagym wrote: »

This one feels like it!

Yea and they are all mondays.

Voodoomelon

It was three months, but was changed to two months over a year ago.

JamesBond2010

xxlauraxxox wrote: »

nope its 3months :P 30*3 :P hehe

U distracted me Laura:p:p:p:D:D:D:D

Jimdagym

CharlieCroker wrote: »

^^^^^^^^
No he didn't, because there's no legislation to allow a guard take a car just for tax if it's out for less than 2 months. It was more than tax he had out if it was siezed!


Tax - 2 months

Insurance/NCT- no limit

Good input. The car was taken off for no tax 1 month and 3 days after expiry as I said. He had to back tax it and pay the fees before getting it released. There were no other offences. Maybe he was cheeky or maybe the copper took it when he shouldn't have, I don't know, but I don't appreciate being made out to be a liar.

challengemaster

Jimdagym wrote: »

Good input. The car was taken off for no tax 1 month and 3 days after expiry as I said. He had to back tax it and pay the fees before getting it released. There were no other offences. Maybe he was cheeky or maybe the copper took it when he shouldn't have, I don't know, but I don't appreciate being made out to be a liar.

Well considering CharlieCroker is a member of AGS, I'd assume he might know a thing or two about it.

Jimdagym

challengemaster wrote: »

Well considering CharlieCroker is a member of AGS, I'd assume he might know a thing or two about it.

He knows nothing of the situation I am talking about. He said it didn't happen, and then he said it was more than tax.
I believe I am entitled to rebuke when I am called a liar.

fasttalkerchat

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Insurance/NCT- no limit

What if you fail the NCT? do you not get a couple of weeks to retest?

challengemaster

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

What if you fail the NCT? do you not get a couple of weeks to retest?

No.

It's funny how people fail to comprehend these things. There's no "grace" period for not having tax/nct/insurance on the car.

Gardaí can use their discretion and choose not to impound the car if you've got an NCT retest lined up, but the bottom line is - if it's got no NCT, insurance or tax, it shouldn't be driving on the road.

fasttalkerchat

challengemaster wrote: »

No.

It's funny how people fail to comprehend these things. There's no "grace" period for not having tax/nct/insurance on the car.

Gardaí can use their discretion and choose not to impound the car if you've got an NCT retest lined up, but the bottom line is - if it's got no NCT, insurance or tax, it shouldn't be driving on the road.

So if you do the test on the expiry date at 5pm and are told that the headlights need aligned. You book the next available appointment and get the lights fixed at 9am the next morning. When you are waiting for the retest the guards stop you and can take your car?

Mr Simpson

Is this the correct section of the act, and has this section been updated since 1994? If not, doesn't this mean that tax must be out by 3 months?

Road Traffic Act 2006 Section 41(1)(c) wrote:

a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that any excise duty payable under section 1 of the Finance (Excise Duties) (Vehicles) Act, 1952 , in respect of the vehicle, being a vehicle which is or which the member reasonably believes to be registered in the State, has not been paid in respect of a continuous period of 2 months or more immediately prior to such use.

Edit: It was updated in 2006

unkel

Jimdagym wrote: »

I believe I am entitled to rebuke when I am called a liar.

Nobody is calling you a liar. But I reckon chances are your friend didn't tell you the full story

CharlieCroker

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So if you do the test on the expiry date at 5pm and are told that the headlights need aligned. You book the next available appointment and get the lights fixed at 9am the next morning. When you are waiting for the retest the guards stop you and can take your car?

Technically yes, in the same way you're supposed to have your insurance renewal sorted prior to it lapsing. While gardai have no descretion regarding insurance, they do within reason for NCT.

Jimdagym wrote: »

Good input. The car was taken off for no tax 1 month and 3 days after expiry as I said. He had to back tax it and pay the fees before getting it released. There were no other offences. Maybe he was cheeky or maybe the copper took it when he shouldn't have, I don't know, but I don't appreciate being made out to be a liar.

I didnt call you a liar but I am saying you're wrong!!! A member of AGS can only work within the parameters of legislation that's in place. S.41 states that a vehicle must be untaxed for more than 2 months before a member of AGS can sieze it.

That can't be changed and every guard knows this. A guard who does anything contrary to the offence is liable to a GSOC complaint, disciplinary procedures and a day in the high court.

That's why I said if the car was siezed from your mate's uncle's dogwalker's next-door neighbour Or whoever, it wasn't for tax alone!

fasttalkerchat

CharlieCroker wrote: »

I didnt call you a liar but I am saying you're wrong!!! A member of AGS can only work within the parameters of legislation that's in place. S.41 states that a vehicle must be untaxed for more than 2 months before a member of AGS can sieze it.

That can't be changed and every guard knows this. A guard who does anything contrary to the offence is liable to a GSOC complaint, disciplinary procedures and a day in the high court.

That's why I said if the car was siezed from your mate's uncle's dogwalker's next-door neighbour Or whoever, it wasn't for tax alone!

A guard tried to arrest someone I know for drinking a can of monster energy drink in public (thought it was alcohol). Just because it shouldn't have happened doesn't mean that the poster is lying!

mullingar

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

A guard tried to arrest someone I know for drinking a can of monster energy drink in public (thought it was alcohol). Just because it shouldn't have happened doesn't mean that the poster is lying!

I call BS, a Garda will never arrest someone just for drinking a can of beer in public.

They will only arrest them if they are causing public order offenses or are abusive to the Gard if asked to dispose of the beer

fasttalkerchat

mullingar wrote: »

I call BS, a Garda will never arrest someone just for drinking a can of beer in public.

They will only arrest them if they are causing public order offenses or are abusive to the Gard

He didn't go ahead with it...
Friend walking with can of energy drink.
Guard asks him what he has
Friend laughs at him and shows the can.
Exchange of words which involves the guard saying "Its up to you to tell me that it isnt alcohol, you could have been arrested".
I think the guard was just pissed off about making an eejit out of himself.

My point is that it is believable that one guard somewhere seized the ops car in the wrong.

christy02

Jimdagym wrote: »

He knows nothing of the situation I am talking about. He said it didn't happen, and then he said it was more than tax.
I believe I am entitled to rebuke when I am called a liar.

Reckon ur mate tellin porkies Jimmy. Didnt want to lose face cos had no insurance
Pay tax on time = No worries...

Pacing Mule

Has the legislation being quoted in this thread changed ?

Quote from RTE story today

It is understood that the car was towed by contractors on behalf of gardaí.
Under road traffic legislation gardaí are empowered to seize a car if its tax is one month or more out of date or not properly displayed.

Voodoomelon

That's interesting, didn't hear anything myself...

goz83

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It was three months, but was changed to two months over a year ago.

What a joke! So you're safe for 2 months and all you have to do is get away with month number 3 and then get your rf100 stamped to get 3 fresh months and another 3 months off, saving you 50% for avoiding only 2 months of potential impounding of car per year. Well now i am really annoyed. Its no wonder there are so many untaxed cars on the road!!!

It should be one month only

Basil Fawlty

Just checked the legislation and I could not find any amendments to Section 41 of the Road Traffic Act. Its still 2 months.

Voodoomelon

goz83 wrote: »

What a joke! So you're safe for 2 months and all you have to do is get away with month number 3 and then get your rf100 stamped to get 3 fresh months and another 3 months off, saving you 50% for avoiding only 2 months of potential impounding of car per year. Well now i am really annoyed. Its no wonder there are so many untaxed cars on the road!!!

It should be one month only

Yup, really makes you mad paying so much when so many don't bother. If you can't beat em...

unkel

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Has the legislation being quoted in this thread changed ?

Quote from RTE story today

Read the same in the Indo today. I reckon one journo didn't do his homework and all the other lazy journos just copied from the first lazy journo

Unless we all missed that it changed from 2 months to 1 month. If I were a betting man, I'd put a good few bob on the former

galwaytt

unkel wrote: »

Read the same in the Indo today. I reckon one journo didn't do his homework and all the other lazy journos just copied from the first lazy journo

Unless we all missed that it changed from 2 months to 1 month. If I were a betting man, I'd put a good few bob on the former

...it's gas: she's on a 6-figure salary. Her/husband has just lost another court case over non-payment for work on her house. She says she's not using the car, and using public transport. And then doesn't buy a train ticket and gets caught for that. Oh, and, I know where she lives: there is no public transport from where she lives, to the train station anyway - so there's no way she's not using the car........

....interesting way to run a country.

sandin

I think some of the confusion is because of the way people understand "out of date"
Technically you must tax your car at the very latest by end of month following expiry of previous tax disc. Therefore legally a car is not "out of date" on 31st of August for a tax disc expired on July 31st, however on 1st Sept, there is one month's arrears and therefore the car is one month out of date and then from 1st Oct, its 2 months out of date and can be taken off the road.

If you want to play a word game like most lying politicians do (esp Fildelma), then on October 1st, you can legally say it was one month and a day out of its latest tax due date, but likewise you can also say its 2 months out of tax.

pah

sandin wrote: »

I think some of the confusion is because of the way people understand "out of date"
Technically you must tax your car at the very latest by end of month following expiry of previous tax disc. Therefore legally a car is not "out of date" on 31st of August for a tax disc expired on July 31st, however on 1st Sept, there is one month's arrears and therefore the car is one month out of date and then from 1st Oct, its 2 months out of date and can be taken off the road.

If you want to play a word game like most lying politicians do (esp Fildelma), then on October 1st, you can legally say it was one month and a day out of its latest tax due date, but likewise you can also say its 2 months out of tax.

Have you any link for that? As far as im concerned you could get a ticket for the above example on 1st august for having no tax. There is no grace period.

My tax is up on 31st august and i got my renewal by post nearly 3 weeks ago. No reason i can't have my new disk well before 31st august.

pah

goz83 wrote: »

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It was three months, but was changed to two months over a year ago.

What a joke! So you're safe for 2 months and all you have to do is get away with month number 3 and then get your rf100 stamped to get 3 fresh months and another 3 months off, saving you 50% for avoiding only 2 months of potential impounding of car per year. Well now i am really annoyed. Its no wonder there are so many untaxed cars on the road!!!

It should be one month only

You can receive a fixed charge penalty of €60 if your tax is out. If more than 2 months and car is taken you will likely receive this on top of fees to have car released.

pah

In respect of the posts above it is important to remember that the offence which you can get a ticket for is for not displaying a valid disc. It could be sitting at home in the kitchen drawer with 12 months of lovely tax on it. If its not displayed you are comitting an offence.

If a car was taken today under s41 as the disc on it was 05/12 but there was a 05/13 disc at home or whatever you can still get the fine but would not be liable for release fees

Just Jack

challengemaster wrote: »

Well considering CharlieCroker is a member of AGS, I'd assume he might know a thing or two about it.

Member of A.G.S, are like posters, in that some are more knowledgeable, than others.So the fact that CharlieCroker is right. In no way means that Jimdagym is wrong.

goz83

Yesterday, this little thread came into the real world and I had a full blown debate with my friend about people who drive without tax and of course, I was of the opinion that people should not drive without valid tax on their car. If they can't afford to pay car tax, then they can't afford to drive. End of story.

His argument (and i will try keep it as logical as possible, because it became very circumstantial) was that the government had forced people into poverty and if some was caught driving with no motor tax, they should not get into trouble for it, unless they were rich people. He went on to argue that if a single mother living in Dublin 17 (for example) had to drive her kids to school in Swords, Co Dublin (for example) and she had no road tax; she has "no choice" but to drive untaxed. Oh and of course, public transport had to be "diabolical" on this route, when in fact the public transport on this route is about the best in the country tbh, with very frequent buses (but that's circumstantial).

My argument was black and white. If you can't pay it, don't drive it. If the single mother is putting Nike trainers on her kids and smoking 20 blue a day, she can afford motor tax (again, circumstantial).

His argument is if you can't pay it (or seemingly, don't want to) then you should't get into trouble if you're caught driving without motor tax.

We have a very different way of seeing the world.

CiniO

goz83 wrote: »

Yesterday, this little thread came into the real world and I had a full blown debate with my friend about people who drive without tax and of course, I was of the opinion that people should not drive without valid tax on their car. If they can't afford to pay car tax, then they can't afford to drive. End of story.

His argument (and i will try keep it as logical as possible, because it became very circumstantial) was that the government had forced people into poverty and if some was caught driving with no motor tax, they should not get into trouble for it, unless they were rich people. He went on to argue that if a single mother living in Dublin 17 (for example) had to drive her kids to school in Swords, Co Dublin (for example) and she had no road tax; she has "no choice" but to drive untaxed. Oh and of course, public transport had to be "diabolical" on this route, when in fact the public transport on this route is about the best in the country tbh, with very frequent buses (but that's circumstantial).

My argument was black and white. If you can't pay it, don't drive it. If the single mother is putting Nike trainers on her kids and smoking 20 blue a day, she can afford motor tax (again, circumstantial).

His argument is if you can't pay it (or seemingly, don't want to) then you should't get into trouble if you're caught driving without motor tax.

We have a very different way of seeing the world.

And the real answer to this debate is that there shouldn't be any motortax in the first place.
Then both of you would be right and you wouldn't have to argue

goz83

CiniO wrote: »

And the real answer to this debate is that there shouldn't be any motortax in the first place.
Then both of you would be right and you wouldn't have to argue

Agreed

SerialComplaint

goz83 wrote: »

His argument (and i will try keep it as logical as possible, because it became very circumstantial) was that the government had forced people into poverty and if some was caught driving with no motor tax, they should not get into trouble for it, unless they were rich people. He went on to argue that if a single mother living in Dublin 17 (for example) had to drive her kids to school in Swords, Co Dublin (for example) and she had no road tax; she has "no choice" but to drive untaxed. Oh and of course, public transport had to be "diabolical" on this route, when in fact the public transport on this route is about the best in the country tbh, with very frequent buses (but that's circumstantial).

My argument was black and white. If you can't pay it, don't drive it. If the single mother is putting Nike trainers on her kids and smoking 20 blue a day, she can afford motor tax (again, circumstantial).

Or she could move her kids to the local school, and just walk them back and forth.

Tallon

goz83 wrote: »

Yesterday, this little thread came into the real world and I had a full blown debate with my friend about people who drive without tax and of course, I was of the opinion that people should not drive without valid tax on their car. If they can't afford to pay car tax, then they can't afford to drive. End of story.

His argument (and i will try keep it as logical as possible, because it became very circumstantial) was that the government had forced people into poverty and if some was caught driving with no motor tax, they should not get into trouble for it, unless they were rich people. He went on to argue that if a single mother living in Dublin 17 (for example) had to drive her kids to school in Swords, Co Dublin (for example) and she had no road tax; she has "no choice" but to drive untaxed. Oh and of course, public transport had to be "diabolical" on this route, when in fact the public transport on this route is about the best in the country tbh, with very frequent buses (but that's circumstantial).

My argument was black and white. If you can't pay it, don't drive it. If the single mother is putting Nike trainers on her kids and smoking 20 blue a day, she can afford motor tax (again, circumstantial).

His argument is if you can't pay it (or seemingly, don't want to) then you should't get into trouble if you're caught driving without motor tax.

We have a very different way of seeing the world.

Spoken like a true lawyer.. (circumstantially of course!)

ABajaninCork

goz83 wrote: »

What a joke! So you're safe for 2 months and all you have to do is get away with month number 3 and then get your rf100 stamped to get 3 fresh months and another 3 months off, saving you 50% for avoiding only 2 months of potential impounding of car per year. Well now i am really annoyed. Its no wonder there are so many untaxed cars on the road!!!

It should be one month only

Totally agree. I posted a thread about this last week : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056717072

Beyond ridiculous.

goz83

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Or she could move her kids to the local school, and just walk them back and forth.

Indeed I made that point too, but the response was that the local school was full of scumbag kids. Scumbag parents perhaps, but it's a bit harsh to call a pre-teen a scumbag unless they go around burning cats and dogs. I say if the area is good enough for them to live in, it's good enough for the kids to go to school in too. But that's going OT.

goz83

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Totally agree. I posted a thread about this last week : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056717072

Beyond ridiculous.

Yes I was poster number 5 in that thread.

Mr MG

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So if you do the test on the expiry date at 5pm and are told that the headlights need aligned. You book the next available appointment and get the lights fixed at 9am the next morning. When you are waiting for the retest the guards stop you and can take your car?

Just so you know, it is illegal for a garda to take your car for no Road Tax....they can ask for your keys but you should never give then to him/her>>if you do then your stupid and will pay an impound fee and fine.. you can find out more on this if you check out article 40:3 of constitutional rights.. I phoned the Garda station and they didnt know at first but actually looked into it and now they know! So never hand over your keys !!! If they take them from you then you can file a a case against them.. and you will win...dont give your keys to them- let them take your details and send you your 60 euro fine

28064212

Mr MG wrote: »

Just so you know, it is illegal for a garda to take your car for no Road Tax....they can ask for your keys but you should never give then to him/her>>if you do then your stupid and will pay an impound fee and fine.. you can find out more on this if you check out article 40:3 of constitutional rights.. I phoned the Garda station and they didnt know at first but actually looked into it and now they know! So never hand over your keys !!! If they take them from you then you can file a a case against them.. and you will win...dont give your keys to them- let them take your details and send you your 60 euro fine

Which exact subsection of 40.3? In your answer, include references to previous case judgements, preferably ones that have specifically ruled that section 41 of the Road Traffic Act is unconstitutional

pah

Mr MG wrote: »

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So if you do the test on the expiry date at 5pm and are told that the headlights need aligned. You book the next available appointment and get the lights fixed at 9am the next morning. When you are waiting for the retest the guards stop you and can take your car?

Just so you know, it is illegal for a garda to take your car for no Road Tax....they can ask for your keys but you should never give then to him/her>>if you do then your stupid and will pay an impound fee and fine.. you can find out more on this if you check out article 40:3 of constitutional rights.. I phoned the Garda station and they didnt know at first but actually looked into it and now they know! So never hand over your keys !!! If they take them from you then you can file a a case against them.. and you will win...dont give your keys to them- let them take your details and send you your 60 euro fine

I lol'd.

Just so you know.....the last 18 years of Garda vehicle detention is illegal, everyone take a case now you WILL win...

Try it. I guarantee you WILL get arrested

Guy:Incognito

Mr MG wrote: »

Just so you know, it is illegal for a garda to take your car for no Road Tax....they can ask for your keys but you should never give then to him/her>>if you do then your stupid and will pay an impound fee and fine.. you can find out more on this if you check out article 40:3 of constitutional rights.. I phoned the Garda station and they didnt know at first but actually looked into it and now they know! So never hand over your keys !!! If they take them from you then you can file a a case against them.. and you will win...dont give your keys to them- let them take your details and send you your 60 euro fine

Really? Theres a part of the law that refers to Gards takign your car for no ROAD TAX?

Mr Simpson

Mr MG wrote: »

Just so you know, it is illegal for a garda to take your car for no Road Tax....they can ask for your keys but you should never give then to him/her>>if you do then your stupid and will pay an impound fee and fine.. you can find out more on this if you check out article 40:3 of constitutional rights.. I phoned the Garda station and they didnt know at first but actually looked into it and now they know! So never hand over your keys !!! If they take them from you then you can file a a case against them.. and you will win...dont give your keys to them- let them take your details and send you your 60 euro fine

Let me guess, you're one of those freemen of Ireland bs artists, stop talking sh*t. The RTA specifically allows for members of the Gardai to impound a car if it is without tax for a period of 60 days or longer.