Ched Evans

midlandsmissus

Ched Evans. Convicted and sentenced to five years for raping a girl . Fair play to her for bringing him to court, and fair play to the justice system for not letting him get away with it.
There are some absolutely horrific comments on twitter though blaming the woman (19 yr old girl) as usual and calling her a slag, all by men as so far as I've read. Actually brought a tear to my eye reading some of them.

Thoughts on it all?

Redzer7

He's a scumbag!

Born to Die

Who is Ched Evans?

Off to Google again.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Footballer convicted of rape. What makes him more different than all the other rapists, I do not know.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

what evidence is there it was rape?
according to the bbc article the main thing that led the jury to believe the woman was too drunk to give consent was she stumbled in a cctv video

so now can any woman get drunk, sleep with a man and then if she regrets it in the morning go to the police so no one thinks shes a slut?

El Weirdo

Coventry City are drawing up a contract in anticipation of his release as we speak.

senorwipesalot

Yeah,I knew there was something dodgy about that foxy bastard the first time I watched that TFI Friday sh1te.

cian68

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

so now can any woman get drunk, sleep with a man and then if she regrets it in the morning go to the police so no one thinks shes a slut?

If she was so drunk that he could be seen as having taken advantage of her then I think yes. Hasn't it been this way for quite some time?

drkpower

What i dont understand is, if the basis of the conviction was that the victim could not consent by virtue of her being incapable due to drink, why did evans get convicted and mcdonald was acquitted?

Anyone know if there is a judgment available?

Redzer7

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

what evidence is there it was rape?
according to the bbc article the main thing that led the jury to believe the woman was too drunk to give consent was she stumbled in a cctv video

so now can any woman get drunk, sleep with a man and then if she regrets it in the morning go to the police so no one thinks shes a slut?

Probably best off checking the thread in the soccer forum man, a bit more info over there.

Edit: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056612979

El Weirdo

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

what evidence is there it was rape?
according to the bbc article the main thing that led the jury to believe the woman was too drunk to give consent was she stumbled in a cctv video

so now can any woman get drunk, sleep with a man and then if she regrets it in the morning go to the police so no one thinks shes a slut?

Do you really believe that all the evidence heard by the jury is contained in that BBC article?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

cian68 wrote: »

If she was so drunk that he could be seen as having taken advantage of her then I think yes. Hasn't it been this way for quite some time?

and how do you decide if she was too drunk, and what is too drunk? can any woman not just say she was too drunk after the fact and go to the police?

if she was so drunk she couldnt stand and was dragged onto a bed then I wouldnt have a problem with a conviction but just "too drunk to give consent" seems horribly vague to ruin a mans career and give him 5 years in prison.

midlandsmissus

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

what evidence is there it was rape?
according to the bbc article the main thing that led the jury to believe the woman was too drunk to give consent was she stumbled in a cctv video

so now can any woman get drunk, sleep with a man and then if she regrets it in the morning go to the police so no one thinks shes a slut?

Read the ****ing case details. She woke up in the hotel alone and naked with zero memory of how she got there or who she had been with. Her friend testified that the next morning she was shocked, scared and confused.

CCTV shows her staggering around extremely intoxicated.

YES, if you are too drunk to consent it is rape, of course it is!

eviltwin

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

and how do you decide if she was too drunk, and what is too drunk? can any woman not just say she was too drunk after the fact and go to the police?

if she was so drunk she couldnt stand and was dragged onto a bed then I wouldnt have a problem with a conviction but just "too drunk to give consent" seems horribly vague to ruin a mans career and give him 5 years in prison.

So its now the responsibility of women to not get drunk or if they do to somehow remember to say no if any man tries it on?

Great lets just go back to the 1950s

Why not just teach men to keep it in their pants if a woman looks out of it?

skinny90

It's aload of sh1t, the other lad brought her up to get his hole and then your man ched comes to the hotel after the other lad texts him and asks the girl can he join in,the girl feels she was spiked...surely she could have had her blood tested no for traces no?also how can the other lad not be done.
If she claims she was spiked surely it would have been the guy who brought her to his room that spiked her

ceegee

Havent been following the story but can anyone explain how he got found guilty and the other guy got off?

midlandsmissus

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

and how do you decide if she was too drunk, and what is too drunk? can any woman not just say she was too drunk after the fact and go to the police?

if she was so drunk she couldnt stand and was dragged onto a bed then I wouldnt have a problem with a conviction but just "too drunk to give consent" seems horribly vague to ruin a mans career and give him 5 years in prison.

CCTV shows her in an extremely intoxicated state, she could barely stand. To be then brought to a hotel room by a man, and then another man joining in, do you think this was right of them?

El Weirdo

drkpower wrote: »

What i dont understand is, if the basis of the conviction was that the victim could not consent by virtue of her being incapable due to drink, why did evans get convicted and mcdonald was acquitted?

Anyone know if there is a judgment available?

As I understand it, she went to the room with McDonald and Evans joined later whilst they were having sex.

I presume that the jury felt that consent had been given to McDonald but not to Evans.

awec

eviltwin wrote: »

So its now the responsibility of women to not get drunk or if they do to somehow remember to say no if any man tries it on?

Great lets just go back to the 1950s

Why not just teach men to keep it in their pants if a woman looks out of it?

Yes, it's all men's fault. :rolleyes:

I mean, girls never get drunk and throw themselves all over blokes. :rolleyes:

It's the responsibility of each individual person, male or female, to not get themselves into such a state that they don't know what they are doing.

LETHAL LADY

What kind of man sleeps with a women who is in an extremely intoxicated state?
Where is the fun in that?

drkpower

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Read the ****ing case details. She woke up in the hotel alone and naked with zero memory of how she got there or who she had been with. Her friend testified that the next morning she was shocked, scared and confused.

CCTV shows her staggering around extremely intoxicated.

Would you suggest that any woman in those circumstnces is incapable of consenting?

midlandsmissus wrote: »

YES, if you are too drunk to consent it is rape, of course it is!

Why wasnt mcdonald convicted?

Mr.Biscuits

Billy Piper wasn't too bad now, in fairness.

midlandsmissus

From soccer forum:

The girl couldn't remember how she got there, how about she doesn't drink if she can't handle it! And yes it says she thinks it got spiked, but doubt Evans would have any trouble pulling fit birds anyways.


:eek:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Read the ****ing case details. She woke up in the hotel alone and naked with zero memory of how she got there or who she had been with. Her friend testified that the next morning she was shocked, scared and confused.

CCTV shows her staggering around extremely intoxicated.

YES, if you are too drunk to consent it is rape, of course it is!

well then she shoudn't get so drunk she does things she would regret, the fact that she doesn't remember giving consent doesn't mean consent wasn't given or that she was too drunk to realise what she was doing.

plenty of people black out from drinking, when i was younger it was a regular occurence for me. The answer is to stop drinking before you do something stupid and can't remember it.

drkpower

El Weirdo wrote: »

As I understand it, she went to the room with McDonald and Evans joined later whilst they were having sex.

I presume that the jury felt that consent had been given to McDonald but not to Evans.

Thats what i though first but the media reportage suggests the basis of the conviction was that she was inacapable of consenting as she was intoxicated.

This is one of the many cases where more info is needed before any reasonable comment can be made.

ducksmalone

saw sky sports earlier........there may be an appeal pending,so im holding back on commenting until this has been confirmed,also his employers have not sacked him............ they're waiting also

midlandsmissus

drkpower wrote: »

Would you suggest that any woman in those circumstnces is incapable of consenting?

Why wasnt mcdonald convicted?

Extremely intoxicated, no. You know what it's like when you're extremely intoxicated, yes? Well imagine some-one physically stronger dragging you off and having sex with you while you were out of it. What would you think about that then? If it happened to you?

I don't know about McDonald, the jurors heard more than I did.

starbelgrade

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

What kind of man sleeps with a women who is in an extremely intoxicated state?
Where is the fun in that?

Half the riding every weekend is done in an extremely intoxicated state.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Extremely intoxicated, no. You know what it's like when you're extremely intoxicated, yes? Well imagine some-one physically stronger dragging you off and having sex with you while you were out of it. What would you think about that then? If it happened to you?

I don't know about McDonald, the jurors heard more than I did.

what evidence is there she was dragged off against her will?

awec

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Extremely intoxicated, no. You know what it's like when you're extremely intoxicated, yes? Well imagine some-one physically stronger dragging you off and having sex with you while you were out of it. What would you think about that then? If it happened to you?

I don't know about McDonald, the jurors heard more than I did.

You are assuming that is what happened.

Was it not the case of they just had sex, no physical dragging or anything like that involved.

But she claimed she was too drunk to consent.

In which case, if he claimed he was too drunk to know any better would he get away with it?

Equium

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well then she shoudn't get so drunk she does things she would regret, the fact that she doesn't remember giving consent doesn't mean consent wasn't given or that she was too drunk to realise what she was doing.

plenty of people black out from drinking, when i was younger it was a regular occurence for me. The answer is to stop drinking before you do something stupid and can't remember it.

Like get raped? Come on now.

LETHAL LADY

starbelgrade wrote: »

Half the riding every weekend is done in an extremely intoxicated state.

Speak for yourself says she after two glasses of vino.:pac:

awec

If he physically overpowered her and abused her then of course, that is rape.

But, if she came back to his hotel room through her own choice, and had sex with him, and then woke up the next morning and claimed she was too drunk, then that quite frankly is ridiculous.

His state at the time too matters, obviously if he was stone cold sober that's a different matter.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Equium wrote: »

Like get raped? Come on now.

yeah, thats exactly what I meant. bitches have it coming. well done.

NIMAN

Unknown footballer gets done.

Lot of Premiership players have probably escaped a sentence.

midlandsmissus

ceegee wrote: »

Havent been following the story but can anyone explain how he got found guilty and the other guy got off?

This is speculation why, from soccer forum.

from what i can understand, she went willingly with macdonald, he didnt force her to go. they had their fun. ched called his brother and his mate and rolled her over and took advantage while they filmed it on their mobile.

im guessing the fact macdonald was on a promise he was acquitted and cheds actions deemed him to have not had consent which is rape.

drkpower

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Extremely intoxicated, no. You know what it's like when you're extremely intoxicated, yes? .

While I have no doubt that there is a level of intoxication that renders one incapable fo giving consent, the factors you mentioned (no memory of the night before; scared and terrified the morning after, and staggering around) do not necessarily equal such incapacity.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I don't know about McDonald, the jurors heard more than I did.

Sure; but if the basis of the crime was that she was incapable of consenting, how could one be guilty and the other innocent when only a very short period of time elapsed between them having sex with her?

YFlyer

El Weirdo wrote: »

Coventry City are drawing up a contract in anticipation of his release as we speak.

Been sent there now.

Jimoslimos

awec wrote: »

If he physically overpowered her and abused her then of course, that is rape.

Why do you assume that physical overpowerment is a pre-requisite for rape?

drkpower

midlandsmissus wrote: »

im guessing the fact macdonald was on a promise he was acquitted and cheds actions deemed him to have not had consent which is rape.

Didnt you suggest that she was too intoxicated to consent? Being on a promise in such circumstances is neither here nor there.

midlandsmissus

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well then she shoudn't get so drunk she does things she would regret, the fact that she doesn't remember giving consent doesn't mean consent wasn't given or that she was too drunk to realise what she was doing.

plenty of people black out from drinking, when i was younger it was a regular occurence for me. The answer is to stop drinking before you do something stupid and can't remember it.

So you think he did nothing wrong at all, going in to watch while she was with the other friend and then joining in while she was extremely drunk??????

You do know most rapes don't happen down dark alleyways where you are clubbed over the head by a complete stranger.Most rapes happen where people get into situations where they want to stop, don't want to do anymore, and then are made do things they don't want to.

God forbid there should be one second of pity for the woman on this thread!

awec

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Why do you assume that physical overpowerment is a pre-requisite for rape?

I don't.

I am saying, that if both individuals are drunk, and the girl willingly goes back to his and has sex, she can't just wake up the next morning and think "oh no, what have I done? Rape!".

That's ridiculous.

If I, as a guy, woke up the next morning and did that, do you think my case would get far?

drkpower

midlandsmissus wrote: »

So you think he did nothing wrong at all, going in to watch while she was with the other friend and then joining in while she was extremely drunk??????

There is a difference between thinking he was guilty of rape and thinking that he did nothing wrong. They are not mutually exclusive propositions.

midlandsmissus

drkpower wrote: »

Didnt you suggest that she was too intoxicated to consent? Being on a promise in such circumstances is neither here nor there.

I didn't suggest, that's what I had heard, and then I read the post in the soccer forum and thought I would post what was being said there.
Facts are still coming out and obviously a bit muddled, but it seems like Evan's actions definitely looked alot more sinister than McDonalds.

Redzer7

awec wrote: »

I don't.

I am saying, that if both individuals are drunk, and the girl willingly goes back to his and has sex, she can't just wake up the next morning and think "oh no, what have I done? Rape!".

That's ridiculous.

If I, as a guy, woke up the next morning and did that, do you think my case would get far?

If you read the details provided you'd have known that isn't the case!
Infact it was a hotel booked for his mate, he then text Evans telling him he picked up a girl, evans then went to the hotel room and watched them have sex, then he asked could he join.

drkpower

midlandsmissus wrote: »

..... but it seems like Evan's actions definitely looked alot more sinister than McDonalds.

Why? If it was rape because she was incapable of consenting, why does the circumstances of their sexual encounter make a difference to guilt or innocence?

awec

Redzer7 wrote: »

If you read the details provided you'd have known that isn't the case!
Infact it was a hotel booked for his mate, he then text Evans telling him he picked up a girl, evans then went to the hotel room and watched them have sex, then he asked could he join.

I am talking in general.

It happens. And the accusation of rape is a stigma enough even if you are totally acquitted.

If what you say is the case then yes, he deserves all he gets.

At the same time, there are plenty of men out there who have gone through hell for bulls**t rape accusations. The law does absolutely nothing to protect men in these cases.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

midlandsmissus wrote: »

So you think he did nothing wrong at all, going in to watch while she was with the other friend and then joining in while she was extremely drunk??????

You do know most rapes don't happen down dark alleyways where you are clubbed over the head by a complete stranger.Most rapes happen where people get into situations where they want to stop, don't want to do anymore, and then are made do things they don't want to.

God forbid there should be one second of pity for the woman on this thread!

we dont know she was made do anything. your entire argument up to this point was that she wasn't forced (until for some reason you said she was dragged off) but that she wasn't mentally capable of giving consent.
you dont know anything about this woman. threesomes, orgies, swingers, s&m, whatever.. all sorts of weird **** goes on every night all over the world. It's entirely possible she did consent to the friends watching and then one of them joining in. how you can jump so easily from that to rape is just terrifying.
unless there's some hidden pieces of evidence that clearly show she was incapable of giving consent or that she was pressured into doing something she didn't want to do, i'm going to remain pretty skeptical about this.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Redzer7 wrote: »

If you read the details provided you'd have known that isn't the case!
Infact it was a hotel booked for his mate, he then text Evans telling him he picked up a girl, evans then went to the hotel room and watched them have sex, then he asked could he join.

asked who, him or her?

midlandsmissus

drkpower wrote: »

Why? If it was rape because she was incapable of consenting, why does the circumstances of their sexual encounter make a difference to guilt or innocence?

Obviously it wasn't on intoxication alone or they would have convicted the two of them. The jury decided there was enough evidence to prove she hadn't consented to Chad, but not enough evidence to prove she hadn't consented to McDonald.

midlandsmissus

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

we dont know she was made do anything. your entire argument up to this point was that she wasn't forced (until for some reason you said she was dragged off) but that she wasn't mentally capable of giving consent.
you dont know anything about this woman. threesomes, orgies, swingers, s&m, whatever.. all sorts of weird **** goes on every night all over the world. It's entirely possible she did consent to the friends watching and then one of them joining in. how you can jump so easily from that to rape is just terrifying.
unless there's some hidden pieces of evidence that clearly show she was incapable of giving consent or that she was pressured into doing something she didn't want to do, i'm going to remain pretty skeptical about this.

I did not say she was dragged off. :rolleyes: What I asked you to do was to try to picture the scenario that i described happening to YOU and then seeing if you would describe it as you being able to consent.

And MY entire argument? He's been convicted for rape. You know by a jury. Are you serious?