Bullet Grain ?

game hunter

Hi Lads,

Might seem like a stupid question but just want to find out for sure .

The grain info given on the box of rounds (Lapua Scenar 139 Gr HPBT) does this refer to the amount of powder that is behind the round or is it something to do with the weight of the round itself. I always thaught that it was the powder but a buddy of mine reckoned it was the bullet

Thanks lads .

GH

dev110

It is the weight of the head itself

ormondprop

It is the weight of the bullet that gets fired down the barrel, 1 grain = 1/7000 lb
Or 1oz = 440grains = 28.35grams

German pointer

game hunter wrote: »

Hi Lads,

Might seem like a stupid question but just want to find out for sure .

The grain info given on the box of rounds (Lapua Scenar 139 Gr HPBT) does this refer to the amount of powder that is behind the round or is it something to do with the weight of the round itself. I always thaught that it was the powder but a buddy of mine reckoned it was the bullet

Thanks lads .

GH

No such thing as a stupid question only stupid answers.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I haven't seen one of them yet.:D

game hunter

Sound lads

Another good thing learned

does this mean so that it is always the same amount powder in the casing and its just the bullet that changes .

Thanks again

GH

Cass

As said above the number on a round is the weight in grains of the bullet. However the powder charge varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, and within the same brand depending on ammo choice/caliber.

A quick example. Take .308 caliber. If you use a lighter bullet such as a 150 gr. The charge, of whatever powder is used, could be approx 45grs. Now if you use a 200gr bullet you cannot use the same amount of powder as the heavier bullet cannot be made to go the same speed as a lighter bullet, and to try would lead to excess pressure in the rifle, and the possibility of a dangerous failure of the gun. So a 200gr round may only have 42gr of powder.

Even if you could get a heavier bullet to attain the same speed as a lighter bullet with no dangerous pressure in the chamber the bullet may not be able for it.

FISMA

game hunter wrote: »

...does this refer to the amount of powder that is behind the round or is it something to do with the weight of the round itself. ...

Actually a good question and one that reloaders need to get right.

I have always wished that bullets and powders used a different standard measurement. There is just too much at stake for anyone that confuses the issue.

On a box of ammunition, you will see a grain measurement. For example, my beloved 30-06 comes in 150gr, 165 gr, 180gr, and many others.

This measurement is for the mass of the bullet. I have seen some manufacturers print the mass of the bullet in grams as well and there is a conversion factor to convert mass in grains to mass in grams.

I think long ago, grains of wheat [or something] were thought to be uniform. When buying or selling small quantities of Gold, grains were used to standardize the sale. I think the carrat has a similar origin - being the mass of a seed from a carob tree.

The grains for powder reloading are most definitely different. Take for example reloading a 147gr 9mm round. The mass of the 147grain bullet would be 9.5 grams. I don't think you could even put 9.5grams of powder into the casing.

The powder can change. Some loads come hot, like +P or +P+. Also, some knuckleheads that reload like to give a little extra. I call this the Angel's share, unlike in whiskey, because if you do this, you're just might see Angels - sooner than later.

I'm in the States, where we can reload. If it ever becomes legal in Eire, you'll want to do as I did and buy 2 or 3 reloading books: Hornady, Speer, and Lyman, are my recommendations.

When you find the bullet - powder combo you like, it will pay to cross reference all three sources. Not only on the slim chance of a typo, but you'll see that different books may have different calls for powder grains for the same bullet grains.

EWQuinn

Reloading can be a blessing and a curse. Its nice to be able to assemble highly accurate cartridges from components, but it takes time. In .223 so many powder & bullet combinations work well that its almost hard to make innaccurate rounds. A response to that could very well be, .223 is cheap enough, why reload? The answer is you can save money sometimes, and sometimes you can improve accuracy over factory ammo, but at the end of the day, its really a hobby in and of itself. Down in my "laboratory" I reload almost everything I shoot, but then I stocked up on stuff when prices were much lower. I thought I saw a moderator here refer to a pilot project coming in Ireland.

Cass

EWQuinn wrote: »

I thought I saw a moderator here refer to a pilot project coming in Ireland.

We have a pilot reloading scheme currently running in the MNSCI. Anyone interested in long range shooting, and reloading should check out the development squad newly started in the MNSCI in conjunction with the NRAI.

It was given to us to help those involved in F-Class, and long range target work the tools needed to compete on a level footing with the rest of the world. Something we were sadly lacking for years while having to compete with factory ammo. No matter how good it was made factory ammo lacks that "personal touch" that rounds need to adapt them to each shooters individual rifles.

Since starting on it i can see a dramatic increase in consistency, accuracy which in turn has an effect on the mental aspect of shooting, and provides a certain degree of confidence in my abilities.

As to price, well there is a saing to be made after the initial setup, but thats a pleasant consequence of reloading rather than a goal.

EWQuinn

"No matter how good it was made factory ammo lacks that "personal touch" that rounds need to adapt them to each shooters individual rifles.

Since starting on it i can see a dramatic increase in consistency, accuracy which in turn has an effect on the mental aspect of shooting, and provides a certain degree of confidence in my abilities."

Ezridax, very well stated. As I reflect more on my shooting, only through reloading was I able to get a troublesome Ruger #1 to shoot decent groups. Reloading allowed me to achieve max accuracy from a couple rifles well made enough to know the difference. As a hobby it has proven to be very safe, accidents from reloading are rare, injury accidents are extremely rare. In a nation the size of Ireland a training program could readily be set up and persons could obtain permits for certain types of reloading as long as they meet certain safety standards. Best of luck with that, its really good news!

Cass

When i go to shoot i know from doing my load development that if i play my part right the gun, and round will do it's part. So if i miss i can never blame the round/bullet. IOW no more excuses.:D

The MNSCI run an introduction, safety and training program for all new members of the development squad as they did for when the pilot scheme first came in. They teach basic safety, how to, do's and don'ts, equipment, etc. However, as you well know, reloading can vary in style and technique as much as firearm choice depending on whom you talk to.:) So you are 100% correct in that it is a "sport" in of itself.

The thing is it is not always about "going faster". A few people i know think it's only a matter of putting more powder in, and you're sorted. When i try and explain about seating depth, fire forming brass, bullet choice, primer choice, etc they look at me like i have two heads. What it does do is inform people of the making that actually goes into a round. After saying that it really is common sense. Once you are well trained, and informed you know what to look for in terms of pressure signs, etc, and because of this training there has not been one accident or incident.

The pilot reloading scheme, i think, is the best thing we have at the moment. The safety record is 100%, the improvement (hence the need for reloading) is shown in the performances of our national team, and individual competition shooters. Who knows, with the release of the explosives act (hopefully this year) things might "improve" for more people/clubs/ranges.

mrbrianj

Old time black powder rounds gave both the bullet weight and powder weight