Boards Beef Discussion Group

cjpm

Muckit wrote: »

half inch. It's not the size but what you do with it cjpm :rolleyes: This is only in the one field away from house. Good pressure, short distance and there will only ever be one trough being served at a time (one group). It's all about matching supply with demand.

A neighbour pulled up and more or less said I should have gone bigger too. He has 90+ milking cows..... I have a handful of yearling heifers :rolleyes:

Each to their own i suppose, although if you were to use bigger piping the pressure at the pump can be turned down and will improve the effiency of the pump (slightly!!)

I was powerwashing during the summer (high pressure & low volume washer), connected a roll of 1/2" piping to my supply pipe (40 psi) and used the roll to move around the yard. The supply from the 1/2" couldn't keep up with the power washer!!

cjpm

Muckit wrote: »

So have alot of people cjpm, including myself. Rovi I think posted on this. I am not so sure. I tried a bit of research online, but couldn't find anything to confirm this. I think hydrodare is LDPE Low-density polyethylene. The blue water pipe they are using now is MDPE (medium density), so stronger.

But as for hydrodare conducting electric fence current.... I don't know. I read somewhere though that you can't use an ordinary electrican's voltmeter on an electric fence as it will f**k it up

I've used a few lengths of it for underground crossings!! :eek::eek:

blue5000

Like a few other ppl I have paddocks and roadways from dairying. The original dairy paddocks have two strands of wire. Silage fields and rough land has only 1 strand. 3 Group sizes will vary between 20-30 cows per bull during the summer and then heifers and bull calves get divided into 2 mobs in Sept.

Field sizes vary from 7 acres up to 21 acres, with most of the paddocks about 3 acres. Silage fields are split down the middle with a trough half way along the middle fence, I keep the strainers in about 10m so that the headlands can be mowed all in one. I subdivide paddocks this time of year and in the autumn with temporary fences, in an odd place I would use a temporary water trough as well, see pics below.

I use 3/4 inch hydradare everywhere except in the yard. Troughs are mostly 70 gal jfc, but from now on I'll be replacing these with 150 gal concrete troughs to keep badgers out. All the pipes around paddocks are above ground which means I disconnect at silage headlands:mad:

If I was to improve things I'd put a few rolls of sheep hi-tensile wire along the end of roadways near the yard to stop calves getting through the bottom strand. I'm also starting to put in creep gates between paddocks.

First pic is how bare a silage field got cleaned off last week,
Pic 2 and 3 are a temporary trough made from a 200L acid barrel,

Rovi

Muckit wrote: »

So have alot of people cjpm, including myself. Rovi I think posted on this. I am not so sure. I tried a bit of research online, but couldn't find anything to confirm this. I think hydrodare is LDPE Low-density polyethylene. The blue water pipe they are using now is MDPE (medium density), so stronger.

But as for hydrodare conducting electric fence current.... I don't know. I read somewhere though that you can't use an ordinary electrican's voltmeter on an electric fence as it will f**k it up

I did indeed, reply with more detail HERE.

1chippy

two grazing blocks and one silage. the first grazing is around home farm and is split into 6 fields. we usually broke this down into two fields at a time for grazing but changed this, thisyear. spliting these with temp fencing and really seeing a difference already. water supply is our main issue and have to get supplies sorted. it means around 800-1000m of pipe and drinkers.
Silage block all around farm yard aswell. this gets one graze, one cut and then grazed out for the rest of the year as well. this will be changing next year to two cuts so losing that grazing.
Second grazing block is a bit of land ive taken on a long term lease. its split into 9 nice sized fields. i have a lad reseeding at the moment. ive just fenced it and have ran around 1100ms of 3/4" hydra. still need to get the drinkers. i intend to run around 40-50 weanling heifers on this bit this year. A lot of these will be bought as potential sucklers. Have a good few limo heifers out of br friesian on milk replacer at the moment. a share will be got in the back end in the west. really pushing to expand at the moment and trying to get the most out of the ground. finances are restricting a lot of my wants. but hopefully will be well set up in the back end. trying a good seed recommended specifically for intensive grazing. will be trying to get around 20 acres of the home place reseeded next year.

leg wax

!cid_cidImagegaps.jpg

!cid_cidImagejuy.jpgthis is the way i have done my gaps off the road ways ,it helped to keep the road way as narrow as possible but a 3000 gallon slurry tanker can still turn into paddocks in comfort.

JohnBoy

A paddock fencing question.

Apart from the obvious cost factors, what are the pros and cons of one versus two strands of wire?

Muckit

blue5000 wrote: »

Pic 2 and 3 are a temporary trough made from a 200L acid barrel,

Blue I like your water trough. I've seen these bottom fed ball valves on youtube, but they looked at me with 10 heads when i went to local co-op looking for them.

Have you a costing for the valve? I have plenty of those barrels. I can get a jfc dt30 fitted with ball valve for €59.

Muckit

JohnBoy wrote: »

A paddock fencing question.

Apart from the obvious cost factors, what are the pros and cons of one versus two strands of wire?

Pros

• lower cost (as you mentioned)
• Less potential problems with stray earths. High vegetation (briars, strong stemmy grass) in summer and cattle won't be able to graze it.
• An offset topper or flail hedgecutter will fit under it.

Cons

• Young calves may stray under it

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think one strand regardless of enterprise is sufficient around hedged boundaries.

Muckit

leg wax wrote: »

this is the way i have done my gaps off the road ways

Thanks for posting Legwax. It's hard to tell the width of the gateways from posting. Would they be around 8m?
I am installing gates at the moment. Can you post pics of the posts either side of the gate so I can see how the power is carried and the handles are attached. Thanks

vanderbadger

Muckit wrote: »

Blue I like your water trough. I've seen these bottom fed ball valves on youtube, but they looked at me with 10 heads when i went to local co-op looking for them.

Have you a costing for the valve? I have plenty of those barrels. I can get a jfc dt30 fitted with ball valve for €59.

something like this maybe, bloody expensive. there is another brand called jobe i think

http://www.farmrite.co.uk/product/113175/Topaz-Megaflow-Trough-Valve-15mm-0-5-WF126-Concrete-Trough-Model

Muckit

vanderbadger wrote: »

something like this maybe, bloody expensive. there is another brand called jobe i think

http://www.farmrite.co.uk/product/113175/Topaz-Megaflow-Trough-Valve-15mm-0-5-WF126-Concrete-Trough-Model[/QUOTE]

No Vander, they're basically the same as the old ball valves but with stronger flow.

Ones that blue5000 has used feed the trough from the bottom and the ball is suspended on a chain or string rather than an arm. The upside is that the fitting is immersed in the water away from cattle and valves just bobs out of the way. You can use a smaller 'trough'. You couldn't use a half blue barrel with an ordinary ball valve because they'd break it off!

vanderbadger

Muckit wrote: »

vanderbadger wrote: »

something like this maybe, bloody expensive. there is another brand called jobe i think

http://www.farmrite.co.uk/product/113175/Topaz-Megaflow-Trough-Valve-15mm-0-5-WF126-Concrete-Trough-Model[/QUOTE]

No Vander, they're basically the same as the old ball valves but with stronger flow.

Ones that blue5000 has used feed the trough from the bottom and the ball is suspended on a chain or string rather than an arm. The upside is that the fitting is immersed in the water away from cattle and valves just bobs out of the way. You can use a smaller 'trough'. You couldn't use a half blue barrel with an ordinary ball valve because they'd break it off!

ya i cant seem to find the exact one but i think the same company make them, our coop store doesnt have them either but the guy who looks after my well pump tells me he can get them for me

JohnBoy

Muckit wrote: »

Pros

• lower cost (as you mentioned)
• Less potential problems with stray earths. High vegetation (briars, strong stemmy grass) in summer and cattle won't be able to graze it.
• An offset topper or flail hedgecutter will fit under it.

Cons

• Young calves may stray under it

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think one strand regardless of enterprise is sufficient around hedged boundaries.

do people find more issues with weeds under the double wire as cattle wont graze out under the wire?


On drinkers, does anyone make an equivilant to the JFC double unit, but with the ballcock accessible for maintenance?

ie, this plastic drinker


but with some sort of access like this concrete one.


does such a thing exist?

49801

JohnBoy wrote: »

do people find more issues with weeds under the double wire as cattle wont graze out under the wire?


On drinkers, does anyone make an equivilant to the JFC double unit, but with the ballcock accessible for maintenance?

ie, this plastic drinker


but with some sort of access like this concrete one.


does such a thing exist?

pretty sure the only product that would do what you want is
the jfc fastflow trough.

Tora Bora

Muckit wrote: »

Blue I like your water trough. I've seen these bottom fed ball valves on youtube, but they looked at me with 10 heads when i went to local co-op looking for them.

Have you a costing for the valve? I have plenty of those barrels. I can get a jfc dt30 fitted with ball valve for €59.

Muckit, if you want to go to the bottom fed ball valve, and you happen to have one or two of the standard valves around the place, you can convert easily.
Remove the brass stem on the ball from the valve end. Remove the ball from the stem. Tie a nice strong piece of baler twine to the valve lever, where you removed the stem. Tie the other end of the twine to the ball. Adjust length. Bingo.:cool:

Muckit

Tora Bora wrote: »

Muckit, if you want to go to the bottom fed ball valve, and you happen to have one or two of the standard valves around the place, you can convert easily.
Remove the brass stem on the ball from the valve end. Remove the ball from the stem. Tie a nice strong piece of baler twine to the valve lever, where you removed the stem. Tie the other end of the twine to the ball. Adjust length. Bingo.:cool:

Tora, I wouldn't mind giving it a go Have you tried this yourself? If it worked it would be a very cheap trough

pakalasa

BTW, those Ball Cock brass stems can be bought in B&Q. I got one there recently. Handy to have if the cattle break one. No need to remove all the Ball Cock then, just remove the split pin and slide in the new one.

Muckit

pakalasa wrote: »

BTW, those Ball Cock brass stems can be bought in B&Q. I got one there recently. Handy to have if the cattle break one. No need to remove all the Ball Cock then, just remove the split pin and slide in the new one.

Good to know Pak.

But I'd say you could buy two ball cocks for the price of the B&Q stem!:D

Muckit

Screw off the ball also if you want to bend or adjust the rod. Cracked one before messing with it and pushing down on the ball :mad: Always good too to have a few spare balls ... (he he he... spare balls )

Tipp Man

So in a paddock system how often are people typically moving the cows?

how much do people expect to increase their stocking rates by going to a paddock system?

do you anticipate using more fertiliser as a result of using paddocks?

KCTK

Muckit wrote: »

Tora, I wouldn't mind giving it a go Have you tried this yourself? If it worked it would be a very cheap trough

have a number of large concreate troughs with this working perfectly, if you can find a short screw/shed bolt to screw in to the ball it makes it very easy to attach the cord, could also use light fence wire instead of cord.

Tora Bora

Muckit wrote: »

Tora, I wouldn't mind giving it a go Have you tried this yourself? If it worked it would be a very cheap trough

Yes, I have done this in a few places. Plumber mate threw me a box of old ball cocks he had taken out of places. I put new rubber seal in, and converted as stated for the watering troughs. Works perfect, and cattle nosing the ball does not lead to damage. If they push the ball around when it's on the brass stem, you end up with leaks etc.

LivInt20

Tipp Man wrote: »

So in a paddock system how often are people typically moving the cows?

how much do people expect to increase their stocking rates by going to a paddock system?

do you anticipate using more fertiliser as a result of using paddocks?

And what is the typical fertiliser programme in a paddock system.

Fertiliser type?

Application rate?

Applied when?

redzerologhlen

Right lads, Own 286 acres and renting another 20. Land is fragment into 6 different blocks spread over 7 miles which makes things awkward. Have about 110 acres of summer land of which about 70 could be reseeded easily enough. No paddocks in place at the moment and water is an issue so I have a lot to straighten out. Cows are grazing in a kind of a rotation but it is awkward trying to move them from one block to the other. Have big plans for the next ten years to reseed as much as possible, sort out water and divide up fields in a way they can easily be divided up again with a temporary fence. Costs between vets, fertiliser, feed and contractor are about 6k a year at the moment which is pretty good. Keeping 40 cows at the moment and the most of their calfs to year and a halfs. Big potential for improvement but hard to know where to start!!

blue5000

Muckit wrote: »

Blue I like your water trough. I've seen these bottom fed ball valves on youtube, but they looked at me with 10 heads when i went to local co-op looking for them.

Have you a costing for the valve? I have plenty of those barrels. I can get a jfc dt30 fitted with ball valve for €59.

Hi muckit, it's just an ordinary brass 1/2" ballcock. I drilled a hole in the side of the barrel,about 4 inches up from the bottom (see the third picture). The hole has to be very tight so that the brass has to be screwed into it. I put a good dab of silicone both inside and outside the hole before screwing the elbow on. You need the big brass nuts as well, not the nylon/plastic sh1te

Inside the barrel the normal (short,6-7? inch) brass stem is still on the ballcock, the ball has a bolt in it, same thread as the ballcock stem with v light chain hanging down from the float to the stem. The stem has two nuts, one either side of the chain link. Not sure how much those ballcocks are with the hi-pressure inlet, 18-20e I'm guessing.

Some of those add-F barrels had a threaded bung on them, a ballcock could be threaded straight into them, you had to cut off the blank in the middle to get it through first. The plastic eventually gets brittle though they don't last forever.

lab man

Tora Bora wrote: »

Muckit, if you want to go to the bottom fed ball valve, and you happen to have one or two of the standard valves around the place, you can convert easily.
Remove the brass stem on the ball from the valve end. Remove the ball from the stem. Tie a nice strong piece of baler twine to the valve lever, where you removed the stem. Tie the other end of the twine to the ball. Adjust length. Bingo.:cool:

hi lads, i use the plastic 2 litre milk cartons, tie cord onto the handle an onto the brass lever, they work perfect from the bottom feed water troughs /45 gal drums

connormi

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Right lads, Own 286 acres and renting another 20. Land is fragment into 6 different blocks spread over 7 miles which makes things awkward. Have about 110 acres of summer land of which about 70 could be reseeded easily enough. No paddocks in place at the moment and water is an issue so I have a lot to straighten out. Cows are grazing in a kind of a rotation but it is awkward trying to move them from one block to the other. Have big plans for the next ten years to reseed as much as possible, sort out water and divide up fields in a way they can easily be divided up again with a temporary fence. Costs between vets, fertiliser, feed and contractor are about 6k a year at the moment which is pretty good. Keeping 40 cows at the moment and the most of their calfs to year and a halfs. Big potential for improvement but hard to know where to start!!

Just an idea would you consider carrying some of the calves to finishing, would be spreading your options a bit while increasing output also. As 40 cows on 300 odd acres seems very low stocking rate.

As regard paddocks if you divided land up into 6 or 7 acres fields, cows would have shelter and you wouldnt be moving fences or rotating them everyday like with milking cows. Maybe building a few roads would reduce poaching, make handling cattle easier and divides up the area a bit.

redzerologhlen

connormi wrote: »

Just an idea would you consider carrying some of the calves to finishing, would be spreading your options a bit while increasing output also. As 40 cows on 300 odd acres seems very low stocking rate.

As regard paddocks if you divided land up into 6 or 7 acres fields, cows would have shelter and you wouldnt be moving fences or rotating them everyday like with milking cows. Maybe building a few roads would reduce poaching, make handling cattle easier and divides up the area a bit.

About 180 acres of that is our shed but our stocking rate is still too low I dont think shelter will be much of an issue with making paddocks in our place. We were carrying bullocks to finish up to a couple of years ago with 60 cows but to be honest there was as much out of the selling as year and a halfs the way we were operating. I would like to divide fields into 10 acres and place water trough in the middle so the can be divided again with a temporary fence. Would be doing the 10 acre divisions with stone walls rather then a fence too.

bob charles

redzerologhlen wrote: »

About 180 acres of that is our shed but our stocking rate is still too low I dont think shelter will be much of an issue with making paddocks in our place. We were carrying bullocks to finish up to a couple of years ago with 60 cows but to be honest there was as much out of the selling as year and a halfs the way we were operating. I would like to divide fields into 10 acres and place water trough in the middle so the can be divided again with a temporary fence. Would be doing the 10 acre divisions with stone walls rather then a fence too.

Having a fair idea of the type of animals that you are producing and in the climate they are used too, I couldnt see how finishing them would leave any extra margin. The stores in your parts are a sight to behold and command a serious price premium