Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

DB10

DB10 wrote: »

If every single person was forced to vote it would probably have been a no vote.

Odd then that lower turnouts usually correlate with a higher no vote isn't it?

Chucky the tree

DB10 wrote: »

You've just linked a near 3 years old article.

These days the graduates are leaving.

The only voters are pensioners to keep their money, they have paid transport to vote from FG.

Graduates in what? fighting?

http://www.joe.ie/gaa/gaa-news/perth-gaa-clubs-to-assist-police-over-antisocial-irish-emigrants-0024484-1

Scofflaw

Bambi wrote: »

Merely a figure of speech, sorta like your p**y signs off .

And Irelands downfall had nothing to do with the clown car that the single currency turned out to be, nor greeces, spains, italys, portugals etc etc. All their woes brought about solely by the fecklessness of individual governments as opposed to the catastrophic failure of the EU's strategy since Maastricht.

Sounds plausible alright.

Well, let's see. Is every euro country up the creek? No. Are there non-euro countries up virtually identical creeks to euro countries? Yes.

So, "euro as the explanation for the crisis" fails at the first logical hurdle. It certainly explains some features of the crisis - as having the punt would explain them if we had the punt - so it's certainly a factor that helps explain the shape of the crisis. But the euro as the reason for the crisis? Nope - basic logic fail.

cordially,
Scofflaw

squod

ilovesleep wrote: »

How arw the results turninf out. From reading the last page it seems as if the yes is running.

How can boards results be so wrong. And even in real life.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's rigged.

That makes three of us so far. One topic for debate for sure IMO.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78973662&postcount=1411

getz

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are you saying the result of the referendum was rigged in order to get it passed? If so how was this done?

i do not think it was rigged, but i found it rather strange to see that when some of the ballot boxes were being emptied on to the counting tables the ballot papers were neatly folded,either irish voters are very meticulous or

tonycascarino

squod wrote: »

That makes three of us so far. One topic for debate for sure IMO.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78973662&postcount=1411

Make that four of us

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78956713&postcount=1011

humanji

DB10 wrote: »

The classes are divided. The working class people have voted no or succumb to the realisation that the upper classes cannot be stopped, they will have 10 referendums to get what they want.

The upper classes are protected by FF/FG so to keep their paw in the creme they voted yes.

We can see by analysing voting patterns, the poorer areas in Ireland, border regions etc have had the lowest turn out/highest no votes.

While the the elites in Dun Laoghaire, certain areas in Cork city etc have the highest Yes votes.

It's all there in black and white, there is a class warfare in this country. I have never seen such wide gaps in opinion, possibly looking in history to the civil war.

The middle classes have either voted yes in fear/stupidity which is down to the government, or refrained from voting.

The brightest and best are in Australia, this province of Germany makes me sick.

Lol.

squod

Min wrote: »

You do know that sometimes governments borrow money when they have other money or bonds paid back?

Do you think it would make sense to borrow at lets say 7% or 8% or higher when we will now have access to the ESM at much lower rates and so actually save the country and the taxpayer some money.

Ridiculous reply. So then, how much will the interest rate be? How much will the payment be from us to the ESM? Did you know that this treaty does not guarantee us access to the funds?

This wasn't called the bluddy charity treaty.

Chips Lovell

ilovesleep wrote: »

How can boards results be so wrong. And even in real life.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's rigged.

Do you seriously think an internet poll is any accurate reflection of the entire voting population?

K-9

ilovesleep wrote: »

This response is so so funny. I actually meant the real life results.

The evidence was there in opinion polls which actively guard against things like confirmation bias, things like your circle of friends.

DB10

tonycascarino wrote: »

Make that four of us

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78956713&postcount=1011

Make that 5

Although I believe it more likely that their plan was a 2nd referendum.

K-9

DB10 wrote: »

If every single person was forced to vote it would probably have been a no vote.

That's brilliant.

I just saw someone walking a dog outside. A German Shepherd. Bastards couldn't even give us a few days before rubbing it in our faces. :mad::mad:

DB10

I have often wondered if the bias in the media against the no vote, was fear that if the no vote parties like libertas, sinn fein, ula got into power, the good times would be over for pat kenny, o callaghan, tubridy, duffy and co. Their wages would be slashed so there is clearly a conflict of interest.

Tighter restrictions on print media would also be a fear indicating why the times and independant are so pro FG/EU/Tories and anti Sinn Fein/People before Profit/Libertas/Respect Party UK/UKIP and Farage.

The fear there is change will come, and people lick this manure up. They are no people thinking for themselves anymore, they are told what to do. It is more like communist USSR everyday in this country.

My name is URL

DB10 wrote: »

Make that 5

Although I believe it more likely that their plan was a 2nd referendum.

How could it have been rigged? Seriously guys, I think yizzer disappointment in the matter is clouding your brains a little. How many people would need to be involved in rigging the thing, and do you really think that the government would risk being found to be even contemplating it? I love a conspiracy theory as much as anyone, but c'mon like.

I voted no to this and both of the Lisbon treaties, but I fully accept the outcomes of all three referendums. That's democracy.. you can't win them all, and a lot of time you won't win at all. I don't think there are any winners in this particular one. Just move on from this and see how things pan out.. if it all goes belly up we'll be able to smugly say that we didn't vote for it, and if it does work out well, then all the better!

DB10

DB10 wrote: »

I have often wondered if the bias in the media against the no vote, was fear that if the no vote parties like libertas, sinn fein, ula got into power, the good times would be over for pat kenny, o callaghan, tubridy, duffy and co. Their wages would be slashed so there is clearly a conflict of interest.

Tighter restrictions on print media would also be a fear indicating why the times and independant are so pro FG/EU/Tories and anti Sinn Fein/People before Profit/Libertas/Respect Party UK/UKIP and Farage.

The fear there is change will come, and people lick this manure up. They are no people thinking for themselves anymore, they are told what to do. It is more like communist USSR everyday in this country.

Oh please. Every political party is the same. Sinn Fein are doing what they did in the North, using whatever tactic they can to increase support so then they can get their noses in the trough of power and perks.

DB10

I dont truely believe it was rigged, but I believe it is understandable that some may believe it to be true.

Then again URL, the YES side never accepted Lisbon 1, and wouldnt have accepted a no here, so it is understandable why some on the no side won't accept this result.

DB10

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh please. Every political party is the same. Sinn Fein are doing what they did in the North, using whatever tactic they can to increase support so then they can get their noses in the trough of power and perks.

I dont believe you have addressed my post on media bias etc, you have just quoted it.

humanji

DB10 wrote: »

I have often wondered if the bias in the media against the no vote, was fear that if the no vote parties like libertas, sinn fein, ula got into power, the good times would be over for pat kenny, o callaghan, tubridy, duffy and co. Their wages would be slashed so there is clearly a conflict of interest.

Tighter restrictions on print media would also be a fear indicating why the times and independant are so pro FG/EU/Tories and anti Sinn Fein/People before Profit/Libertas/Respect Party UK/UKIP and Farage.

The fear there is change will come, and people lick this manure up. They are no people thinking for themselves anymore, they are told what to do. It is more like communist USSR everyday in this country.

I don't think I've ever seen such a sore loser. Seriously, people have different opinions to you. This doesn't make them stupid and it doesn't mean their part of a big conspiracy that's out to get you. Accept that and move on.

DB10

DB10 wrote: »

I dont believe you have addressed my post on media bias etc, you have just quoted it.

FF, FG, Labour, the PDs, the Greens, some independents, all have been in power in the last 15 years, have they all been in cahoots with the media but the leftists wouldn't be? Assuming one accepts your premise of the media being on the government's side at every opportunity.
Also since when have SF been in favour of cutting any spending? :pac:

Battered Mars Bar

Can we vote again I don't think people really understood the issues.

DB10

humanji wrote: »

I don't think I've ever seen such a sore loser. Seriously, people have different opinions to you. This doesn't make them stupid and it doesn't mean their part of a big conspiracy that's out to get you. Accept that and move on.

I wonder if you treat your compatriots in the conspiracy theory forum, which you moderate, in the same manner. Personally I am not in the habit of conspiracies, I believe it is all there in black and white for anyone to grasp.

Review the media coverage, and electoral results in area detail and its all there. It's no conspiracy.

In fact I believe your own political ideological views are getting in the way here. I also believe buzz words like conspiracy are just an attempt to discredit my viewpoint.

If we are honest with ourselves, the YES side never accepted Lisbon 1, and wouldn't have accept a NO here either.

That's not right, fair or correct behaviour. I just feel like speaking out on the matter. If more people spoke out like me, this country could be great again. I just dont think the electorate fight for it enough, we accept it all.

jacko1

the groutch wrote: »

all very tight, definitely not the 60/40 to the Yes side that was predicted.

and the final result was . . . . . ?

Ironé

Majority of people I met voted Yes - they felt it was a necessary evil.

I would love if someone could explain something to me - I'm seriously just interested in understanding people's viewpoint:

We are up the creek - we have a huge huge budget deficit. We need to borrow money every month to pay for example the bills for civil servants, teachers etc. I don't understand how we can get out of this without borrowing? Or how we can get back on our feet without making cuts? There will be drastic cuts because there is no money.

Businesses were out of control, but similarly so were normal Joe Soaps getting huge mortgages. I paid over the odds for our house but I feel I made my own bed and have to get my own way out of it. The banks didn't make me take the money.

We have gotten so much money from Europe over the years and have gotten so much infrastructure in return.

The current government inherited an absolute mess to put it mildly. People are so angry with them and I honestly don't get it. How do people expect these problems to be fixed so quickly? This is going to take time and is going to mean painful cuts - what is the alternative?

Chips Lovell

DB10 wrote: »

Personally I am not in the habit of conspiracies

DB10 wrote: »

I have often wondered if the bias in the media against the no vote, was fear that if the no vote parties like libertas, sinn fein, ula got into power, the good times would be over for pat kenny, o callaghan, tubridy, duffy and co. Their wages would be slashed so there is clearly a conflict of interest.

Tighter restrictions on print media would also be a fear indicating why the times and independant are so pro FG/EU/Tories and anti Sinn Fein/People before Profit/Libertas/Respect Party UK/UKIP and Farage.

Does not compute

Ironé

DB10 wrote: »

If we are honest with ourselves, the YES side never accepted Lisbon 1, and wouldn't have accept a NO here either.

You assume those who voted Yes/No to Lisbon voted the same on this. Not true. I met three different people yesterday who said this was there first time voting Yes on a european treaty in a very long time.

My name is URL

DB10 wrote: »

I dont truely believe it was rigged, but I believe it is understandable that some may believe it to be true.

Then again URL, the YES side never accepted Lisbon 1, and wouldnt have accepted a no here, so it is understandable why some on the no side won't accept this result.

Nobody was forced to change their mind after Lisbon I. There were a lot of scare tactics used in the run-up to Lisbon II, but that's for another thread.

EU related treaties aren't the only referendums which have been held twice in Ireland. The divorce referendum had to be held twice before it was passed, and I'm sure people were glad to have a say in it second time round.

The fact that people had a choice and chance to change their minds is hardly undemocratic.

EURATS

Bottom €uro now is...kenny has to prove the NO side wrong and the YES side right.

Hats off to the YES side..money is what makes the world go round. Doesn't matter what you have to do to get it. Sell your soul, your hôle or whatever you can find.

Good luck to Kenny...he'll need it!!

DB10

Ironé wrote: »

You assume those who voted Yes/No to Lisbon voted the same on this. Not true. I met three different people yesterday who said this was there first time voting Yes on a european treaty in a very long time.

Cork eh?

No surprise to me, certain areas of Cork are where the upper classes thrive as I previously mentioned. Full of arrogant FFers like Martin, English people and pensioners, who all vote for FF/FG. I feel sorry for the true Irish down there, living in that cesspool of discontent.

How someone who voted not to Lisbon could vote yes yesterday, beggars belief.

It really does. As I said, the areas of certain YES voters correspond with my political analysis that they are all upper class.

K-9

My name is URL wrote: »

Nobody was forced to change their mind after Lisbon I. There were a lot of scare tactics used in the run-up to Lisbon II, but that's for another thread.

EU related treaties aren't the only referendums which have been held twice in Ireland. The divorce referendum had to be held twice before it was passed, and I'm sure people were glad to have a say in it second time round.

The fact that people had a choice and chance to change their minds is hardly undemocratic.

We got protocols to change Lisbon. They obviously satisfied some people and it swung it for the Yes side. Unfortunately Governments can't please every voter, especially those that go on about elites and conspiracies!