Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

Battered Mars Bar

Min wrote: »

People should now be getting an education for where the jobs are, it was not in construction.

Nonsense, sure follow the crowd is it :rolleyes: Great advice to give someone embarking on a degree this year lets say. 4-5 years time, probably too many qualified for the IT sector and a big gap for the construction sector.

smash

20 boxes out of 87 Carlow boxes have been tallied so far. There is a strong No vote coming from urban areas in the county, while rural areas are predominately showing a Yes vote.

That's interesting.

ThisRegard

batistuta9 wrote: »

the majority of jobs that are being announced for the country are for computing, that won't solve the unemployment in ireland

there are plenty of computing based jobs at the minute yet no one to fill them

Min wrote: »

That is due to 1 in 5 people being involved in an unsustainable construction sector before that sector crashed and burned.

People should now be getting an education for where the jobs are, it was not in construction.

Yip, I personally know, and I've mentioned it in other threads, many people that thought there was no need to to college as they went directly into construction, starting off as labourers, getting apprenticeships and becoming brickies themselves. I won't deny I was envious of the money they were taking in when I was a student and to be fair that's where the jobs were at the time.

However even back in the 90s Ireland was being promoted as a knowledge based economy and the software industry it still very busy, as Min says, some companies are struggling to fill some of the roles they have.

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

Nonsense, sure follow the crowd is it :rolleyes: Great advice to give someone embarking on a degree this year lets say. 4-5 years time, probably too many qualified for the IT sector and a big gap for the construction sector.

So what's your plan, don't bother with college but still come out of school demanding a job because as you say how are you supposed to know where the jobs are going to be when you graduate. You make no sense.

gnfnrhead

Ugh.

I'd leave if I could afford it. Hopefully this time next year.

batistuta9

Min wrote: »

That is due to 1 in 5 people being involved in an unsustainable construction sector before that sector crashed and burned.

People should now be getting an education for where the jobs are, it was not in construction.

computing courses have the highest drop out rates of any college courses, do you think everyone who goes back & tries to retrain will be successful?

in a way they may as well announce a 1000 jobs a week for particle physics research

dvpower

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

Nonsense, sure follow the crowd is it :rolleyes: Great advice to give someone embarking on a degree this year lets say. 4-5 years time, probably too many qualified for the IT sector and a big gap for the construction sector.

What forecast is this pile of nonsense based on?

Min

EURATS wrote: »

Is interesting to see that the areas that voted YES ..are the same people who owe out their bollöx on mortgages etc and who overspent during the boom. Is obvious enough that they will need more money to keep it going. Hope the ESM fund actually materialises for them!!

Rural areas are mostly agricultural and they didn't get involved in spending beyond their means, the urban middle classes are not all in debt either, many have good jobs and see that having access to the ESM is a positive. That not making Ireland an issue mattered, it was important that all Euro countries are in the fiscal treaty, so that everyone in the Euro are playing by the same rules.

People voted for what was in the interest of Ireland, many may not have liked voting yes but saw it as the lesser of two evils.

The No side were never able to answer where the money would come from if we voted no. They scaremongered by calling it the austerity treaty as if voting no meant we would have no austerity.

The people of Ireland made the right decision.

EURATS

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

EURATS wrote: »

Is interesting to see that the areas that voted YES ..are the same people who owe out their bollöx on mortgages etc and who overspent during the boom. Is obvious enough that they will need more money to keep it going. Hope the ESM fund actually materialises for them!!

Also obvious that no one wants the default and devalue PUNT option. As we all know having a wheelbarrow of useless money is not the solution either.

Once we don't end up with a wheelbarrow full of useless €uros!!!

humanji

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Ugh.

I'd leave if I could afford it. Hopefully this time next year.

Why not wait to see how it works out? It's not like there would be an instant fix with a yes or no vote.

Battered Mars Bar

ThisRegard wrote: »

So what's your plan, don't bother with college but still come out of school demanding a job because as you say how are you supposed to know where the jobs are going to be when you graduate. You make no sense.

Neither do you and you don't understand what I said. Do whatever you want. Go to college and study construction even, nothing to say you won't get a good job in 4 years time and perhaps some of the market will be crying out for qualified people particularly in the sustainable energies sector. This rubbish I was responding to was..."get education where it's at" I wouldn't go near an IT course anyway myself but that's just me.

Battered Mars Bar

dvpower wrote: »

What forecast is this pile of nonsense based on?

Get a coffee man :rolleyes:

andrewdeerpark

EURATS wrote: »

Once we don't end up with a wheelbarrow full of useless €uros!!!

Not likely if the bundesbank have their way.

batistuta9

ThisRegard wrote: »

So what's your plan, don't bother with college but still come out of school demanding a job because as you say how are you supposed to know where the jobs are going to be when you graduate. You make no sense.

he/she is saying that if you end up with a whole load of computing grad's they could end up being no work for them due to too many being qualified in the area much like now where there are too many qualified in construction

& there's a slight possibility of this happening as the computing job announcements keep coming which equals a rise in the number applying for computing courses. although many of them will not make it

Dyr

Min wrote: »

Rural areas are mostly agricultural and they didn't get involved in spending beyond their means.

Irish agriculture is hugely subsidised by the tax payer, which is why your average farmer will be pro european, he knows who's signing the cheques for his free money

EURATS

Min wrote: »

EURATS wrote: »

Is interesting to see that the areas that voted YES ..are the same people who owe out their bollöx on mortgages etc and who overspent during the boom. Is obvious enough that they will need more money to keep it going. Hope the ESM fund actually materialises for them!!

Rural areas are mostly agricultural and they didn't get involved in spending beyond their means, the urban middle classes are not all in debt either, many have good jobs and see that having access to the ESM is a positive. That not making Ireland an issue mattered, it was important that all Euro countries are in the fiscal treaty, so that everyone in the Euro are playing by the same rules.

People voted for what was in the interest of Ireland, many may not have liked voting yes but saw it as the lesser of two evils.

The No side were never able to answer where the money would come from if we voted no. They scaremongered by calling it the austerity treaty as if voting no meant we would have no austerity.

The people of Ireland made the right decision.

Rural areas did get involved in spending beyond their means. They got loans for equipment and stock just like many other businesses.

There was plenty of scaremongering from the YES side. Even worse than the NO side.

Hope the YES side are right, but there will be no repercussions for them if they are wrong. Brian Cowen, Bertie Ahern etc are still swanning around enjoying life considering the mess they made of the country.

ThisRegard

batistuta9 wrote: »

he/she is saying that if you end up with a whole load of computing grad's they could end up being no work for them due to too many being qualified in the area much like now where there are too many qualified in construction

& there's a slight possibility of this happening as the computing job announcements keep coming which equals a rise in the number applying for computing courses. although many of them will not make it

IT in Ireland has been crying out for graduates since the 90s, it's for the most part a high skilled job which doesn't depend on a boom or bubble in the country you work in. Most IT jobs support industries and companies throughout the world and is not comparable at all to the building industry.

Actually, it is in a way. There's construction companies throughout the world crying out for construction staff that could employee Irish workers, but the difference is that they can't obviously be done from Ireland. Whereas in Ireland, you could be working in an office in Dublin and never actually deal with an Irish client, all your work is exported.

EURATS

RIP IRELAND. HEIL MERKEL!!!

Battered Mars Bar

ThisRegard wrote: »

IT in Ireland has been crying out for graduates since the 90s, it's for the most part a high skilled job which doesn't depend on a boom or bubble in the country you work in. Most IT jobs support industries and companies throughout the world and is not comparable at all to the building industry.

Actually, it is in a way. There's construction companies throughout the world crying out for construction staff that could employee Irish workers, but the difference is that they can't obviously be done from Ireland. Whereas in Ireland, you could be working in an office in Dublin and never actually deal with an Irish client, all your work is exported.

Good point, although I don't think Ireland will produce suitable individuals for the likes of Google and Facebook anytime soon. Eastern Europe has people more natually adept at computer science perhaps due to it being taught in school from an early age and better degree programmes in their universities but at least our governement is investing in our education I guess so that should be sorted soon enough.

ThisRegard

But they are, we've a big resource pool of highly skilled IT individuals, companies didn't set up in Ireland purely for the tax breaks. Our problem is with languages, or lack thereof. But that's an issue with our education system at second level.

My name is URL

Lots of sore losers and bad winners in this thread!

Disappointed, but not surprised! The Eurozone is still in deepshít though, things could be very different by the time Ireland needs the second bailout, the money might not be there!

AudreyHepburn

I voted Yes in the end because I think on balance we would be shooting ourselves in the foot in the long run if we cut ties with Europe. Our economy is just not strong to survive on its own at the moment.

But that's my own personal opinion and, if you really must tell me what a huge mistake I've made, I would appreciate reasoned rebuttles instead of the usual frenzied negativity and scaremongering.

I had a funny feeling though that the No side would win out on this, whether because of all the scaremongering, or the bitterness towards and hatred of the goverment or the low turnout or just because people did not understand the treaty I don't know.

I just hope whatever the outcome it will work out for the best in the end

batistuta9

ThisRegard wrote: »

IT in Ireland has been crying out for graduates since the 90s, it's for the most part a high skilled job which doesn't depend on a boom or bubble in the country you work in. Most IT jobs support industries and companies throughout the world and is not comparable at all to the building industry.

Actually, it is in a way. There's construction companies throughout the world crying out for construction staff that could employee Irish workers, but the difference is that they can't obviously be done from Ireland. Whereas in Ireland, you could be working in an office in Dublin and never actually deal with an Irish client, all your work is exported.

the only thing i'm comparing with the two of them is the hypothetical number of people needed in each job, now there is far too many skilled in construction with no jobs, this is the hypothetical part, if the majority going to college become qualified in IT & these/even some of these companies leave, stop investing here for whatever reason they could possibly be a large number of people with qualifications & no jobs either

everyone going to college doing the one type of course is a bad prospect much like everyone doing a construction based profession was, now the trend is to do computing courses.

will ireland go on forever as the #1 choice for IT companies to invest in/setup their european HQ from? It'd be very silly to presume so

there will probably always be IT based jobs here no doubt, but in the abundance there is now?

smokingman

batistuta9 wrote: »

he/she is saying that if you end up with a whole load of computing grad's they could end up being no work for them due to too many being qualified in the area much like now where there are too many qualified in construction

& there's a slight possibility of this happening as the computing job announcements keep coming which equals a rise in the number applying for computing courses. although many of them will not make it

The problem isn't in the number of grads. It's in the quality.
My own company has had to go to Argentina to get someone qualified enough for a particular senior IT position. Irish grads and even guys that have been in the business a few years just aren't good enough.

Battered Mars Bar

I can't understand why the poll says 59% No & 29% Yes on this thread What kind of people are frequenting AH :pac:

hooradiation

Poster called "EURATS" eh? Wonder if they have a nuanced and well reasoned take on eve--

EURATS wrote: »

RIP IRELAND. HEIL MERKEL!!!

Hmm, guess not.

batistuta9

ThisRegard wrote: »

But they are, we've a big resource pool of highly skilled IT individuals, companies didn't set up in Ireland purely for the tax breaks. Our problem is with languages, or lack thereof. But that's an issue with our education system at second level.

the amount of different skill sets/experience required/specific skillsets doesn't help either

srsly78

smokingman wrote: »

The problem isn't in the number of grads. It's in the quality.
My own company has had to go to Argentina to get someone qualified enough for a particular senior IT position. Irish grads and even guys that have been in the business a few years just aren't good enough.

Nope. Problem was you weren't paying enough, so had to get a foreign guy in.

Also since when does "a few years" equate to senior?

ThisRegard

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

I can't understand why the poll says 59% No & 29% Yes on this thread What kind of people are frequenting AH :pac:

Just proof the we've all known for years that After Hours frequenters aren't an accurate representation of Irish society. Most probably aren't even at voting age.

ninebeanrows

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

I can't understand why the poll says 59% No & 29% Yes on this thread What kind of people are frequenting AH :pac:

You'd have the element of influx of Shinners to boost poll.

Fact that lots of AH'ers are actually too young to vote and don't understand the situation, go along with the 'feck the system' mentality.

And a lot of Armchair revolutionists.