Converting classic car to diesel?

piston

Isn't it more important that a car is preserved and used rather than leaving it to rot in a field or sit immaculate but never be seen in someone's garage because nobody can afford the petrol bill? Is it really any different to someone doing other upgrades to make a car more usable in modern conditions, such as fitting disc brakes to a Morris Minor?

People have modified cars to suit their own needs ever since the car was invented. People have fitted whatever parts were available to their cars to keep them on the road if the "correct" part wasn't available or too expensive ever since the car was invented. I would not agree with butchering a genuinely really original low mileage from new car or something that is exceptionally rare, but if a common car needs a lot of work doing to it in the first place, it can't really be described as totally original any more in the first place.

bbsrs

macplaxton wrote: »

I think the OP is just a troll. :rolleyes:

But just in case...

niallerrity wrote: »

Hi, I'm wondering has anybody bought a classic car (Bentley, Merc, rolls royce or maybe a classic American car?) and converted it to vandalised it by putting in a Diesel?

There are lots of nice classic cars [well they look nice from the outside] going cheap now [and I like the idea of nice looking, cheap car] because they are not economical and there's a few I'd love to have but couldn't run [I like the idea of cheap tax, cheap insurance and no NCT, but I want cheap fuel/running costs too] so I'd be interested in knowing if it's feasible to convert it to [desecrate it by putting in] a [historically incorrect] newer engine [as I've no interest or inclination to preserve it as it was made, I just want a cheap set of wheels. Should I need to sell it at a later date, no one will want it as it will have been plundered of it's original engine . So I'll weigh it in when I've run it into the ground because I couldn't put any effort into maintaining the yoke or preserving it] or is it just too big and difficult a job? [will it cost me more time/money than I can afford?] Also does anybody know anywhere that might specialise in engine conversions [butchering cars]?

I know a few places that do Jap imports and can convert engines but it's all just Jap cars. [but I really want to find a butcherer willing to do a Bentley, Merc, Rolls-Royce or maybe a classic American car]

Thanks for the responses.

Seven words: In it for all the wrong reasons.

bbsrs wrote: »

its his money and his property he can do as he wishes with it.

We are but temporary custodians of said historic vehicles.

You may consider yourself a custodian but some of us like to modify and improve to ensure continued frequent use and fun. Like a listed building from the 1700's as long as you keep the appearance and character of the building in keeping with the original its fine to update the plumbing and heating otherwise nobody would want it.

Daved_XB

bbsrs wrote: »

You may consider yourself a custodian but some of us like to modify and improve to ensure continued frequent use and fun. Like a listed building from the 1700's as long as you keep the appearance and character of the building in keeping with the original its fine to update the plumbing and heating otherwise nobody would want it.

Agreed, but in some cases like for example a Dodge Charger like the OP was suggesting the engine IS a major part of that character, so yes upgrade it's brakes, it's suspension, fit aircon, a new 6 stack CD player, leather seats, cruse control.... But don't cut it's heart out

bbsrs

I'd rather a new heart than spendings the rest of my days confined to a museum or being sent to china for recycling.

Daved_XB

Hmmm... But we are nowhere near the point where people are scrapping good Chargers because they can't afford the fuel... In fact we are not even near the point that people are scrapping poor chargers for that reason... So I don't think that if the OP didn't buy a Charger & convert it to diesel that it would end up as paper clips & staplers next week

I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one so...

bbsrs

Daved_XB wrote: »

Hmmm... But we are nowhere near the point where people are scrapping good Chargers because they can't afford the fuel... In fact we are not even near the point that people are scrapping poor chargers for that reason... So I don't think that if the OP didn't buy a Charger & convert it to diesel that it would end up as paper clips & staplers next week

I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one so...

I agree with you on chargers anyway as their value and appeal is down to American muscle car Roots of which the low burble on tick over is half the appeal , I also don't think the op would convert a charger to diesel for greater economy as the value he would wipe off the car over savings on juice wouldn't make financial sense ,even if they're isn't a market here for the car there would be in USA and anywhere petrol is cheap.
What I am saying is rather than letting a car rot or be cubed in a crusher why not make it more economical to run in the long term.

Daved_XB

bbsrs wrote: »

I agree with you on chargers anyway as their value and appeal is down to American muscle car Roots of which the low burble on tick over is half the appeal , I also don't think the op would convert a charger to diesel for greater economy as the value he would wipe off the car over savings on juice wouldn't make financial sense ,even if they're isn't a market here for the car there would be in USA and anywhere petrol is cheap.
What I am saying is rather than letting a car rot or be cubed in a crusher why not make it more economical to run in the long term.

Well, the only reason I picked on the Dodge Charger as an example is because it's one of the 4 cars that the OP listed as ones he WAS thinking of....

macplaxton

macplaxton wrote: »

I think the OP is just a troll. :rolleyes:

But just in case...



Seven words: In it for all the wrong reasons.



We are but temporary custodians of said historic vehicles.

where do i begin with what wrong with everything you said?

NOTHING WRONG WITH DIESEL ENGINE, THATS YOUR OPINION BUT I DISAGREE.

They also look lovely on the inside and have a smooth ride, built with quality.

Not looking for a 'cheap car' it's the running cost I don't want, why? because i'm never, ever going to use a V8 or V12 to it's potential so I want something that is more efficient and not burning up excess fuel for NO REASON.

Never thought about the TAX, Insure or NCT. Usually I judge a car based on what I like and what I'm willing to spend, I'd rather fit a modern diesel say from a 520 (example) and if that means paying 600 odd tax a year i'm fine with that.

Actually If i was doing this it would be for MYSELF not to sell on so I couldn't really care if a classic car collector doesn't like it because I'll just laugh that they spend a euro a mile.

It's not 'butchering cars'? It's your opinion on what a classic car should be, thats fine but I said before I don't care. You can go along to your classic car meets and admire standard classic cars thats fine, I'm not going to judge you.

Somebody else mentioned why don't I buy a small golf or something? I have a 2011 fiesta at the moment and I don't like it. I want something with space and comfort. You don't get the same build quality nowadays as you did with high end classic cars, again MY OPINION I don't really care what anybody else thinks.

I really will have to think twice before ever posting anything on this site again, some people just don't read. I DON'T WANT YOUR OPINION SO DO NOT COMMENT YOUR OPINION. It's a shame because some people have been very helpful here but then you get the keyboard warriors who just like to give out about things. IF somebody starts a thread looking to debate a topic thats fine, but if somebody asks a specific question then don't comment if you're just going to give out about it.

Daved_XB

Daved_XB wrote: »

Agreed, but in some cases like for example a Dodge Charger like the OP was suggesting the engine IS a major part of that character, so yes upgrade it's brakes, it's suspension, fit aircon, a new 6 stack CD player, leather seats, cruse control.... But don't cut it's heart out

I agree with you, I really only said a Dodge Charger because It's something I've always wanted but in reality I would probably never do it.

On the other hand I'm really talking about a large saloon.

Daved_XB

Daved_XB wrote: »

Hmmm... But we are nowhere near the point where people are scrapping good Chargers because they can't afford the fuel... In fact we are not even near the point that people are scrapping poor chargers for that reason... So I don't think that if the OP didn't buy a Charger & convert it to diesel that it would end up as paper clips & staplers next week

I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one so...

There are plenty of cars going to waist because people can't afford to maintain them or run them, end up getting left aside for a few months in the hope of being restored then takes a few years and then by that stage they are nearly rotted away!

kiki

LIGHTNING wrote: »

You wont get a nice response in here about converting classics to diesel:pac:

Keep the engine that came with the car unless you are transplanting a big honking American V8

Think lightning summed it up quiet well. Lot of people here quiet passionate about their hobby, while its your prerogative to do what you wish with your vehicle, many here would be horrified to see a genuine classic car's character changed beyond an acceptable level. Thats not a surprise if you read the posts here regularly - no surprise that some may think your post a troll.

In addition many here would caution about the cost issue and any real return on your investment in buying car, engine/gearbox and fitting same. You mentioned cost as a deciding factor so many of the response relate to costs.
When you consider that many either have already or would spend more on a classic than is economically sensible (example - spending 10k restoration in time and materials on a car worth 4k to end up with a car worth 7k) its no surprise really that you get such a response - A lot of passionate people in here.

From what Ive read here - most people here are welcoming and have an open mind, but you will get their opinions on their hobby and thats OK too.

Good luck on your project btw, Im sure it will be interesting.
Woody

bbsrs

kiki wrote: »

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Think lightning summed it up quiet well. Lot of people here quiet passionate about their hobby

Yes but not just the people who want to keep the car as it left the factory , it takes just as much passion to embark on a restoration plus engine conversion , just because some people don't agree with another's route in modification restoration doesn't give them the right to impose their way of thinking on others or to be little the others endeavours. If we all thought the same it would be a boring world .

kiki

bbsrs wrote: »

kiki wrote: »

Yes but not just the people who want to keep the car as it left the factory , it takes just as much passion to embark on a restoration plus engine conversion , just because some people don't agree with another's route in modification restoration doesn't give them the right to impose their way of thinking on others or to be little the others endeavours. If we all thought the same it would be a boring world .

I agree with that, no one here imposing anything, OP has right to do as he wishes with his own car, but you will get opinions here if you ask, even if you dont directly ask for opinions, i dont agree with them all but they are valid opinions, OP should ignore those he doesnt agree with without getting in a huff and remember -- "Opinions are like A$$holes, everybody has one..."
As for belittling his endevours - I wished him luck on his project - I would certainly like to see how it progresses...

bbsrs

kiki wrote: »

bbsrs wrote: »

kiki wrote: »

Yes but not just the people who want to keep the car as it left the factory , it takes just as much passion to embark on a restoration plus engine conversion , just because some people don't agree with another's route in modification restoration doesn't give them the right to impose their way of thinking on others or to be little the others endeavours. If we all thought the same it would be a boring world .

I agree with that, no one here imposing anything, OP has right to do as he wishes with his own car, but you will get opinions here if you ask, even if you dont directly ask for opinions, i dont agree with them all but they are valid opinions, OP should ignore those he doesnt agree with without getting in a huff and remember -- "Opinions are like A$$holes, everybody has one..."
As for belittling his endevours - I wished him luck on his project - I would certainly like to see how it progresses...

Excuse me if it came across as if I was having a pop at you , I was just giving my thoughts in general. I don't mind people giving their opinion if it starts with "I think...." but people telling others that basically they shouldn't do something because they think it's wrong is unnecessary and unhelpful When talking about a hobby. .

macplaxton

People can and do what they want with their own property. The issue is asking an emotive question to the wrong audience.

There are many types of older vehicle owner, for instance:

• preserver (historically correct, or period correct in spec)
• customiser (ZZ Top wagons and flame/chrome/V8s/velour)
• modifier (drop it (suspension), swap it (engine & wheels, "Retro Riders")
• sausage racer (buys a rare old beast for smashing up)

amongst others and lots of shades of grey in between. Also in every group there will be those that focus on different eras. I don't care much for vehicles approx post 1980, but there are others happy to cherish their Nissan Figaro. Fair play to them.

The customisers/modifiers can do what they like. It doesn't float my boat, so I won't encourage it/endorse it/slap them on the back.

I can't quite get my head round the historic sausage racer though. I can understand trashing end-of-life-vehicles that are comparatively abundant, but trashing last-of-their-kind things I can't. Whilst I can't get my head round it, I'm not going to lose sleep either, as ultimately if I didn't want it to happen, I would of put my money where my mouth is.

Anyway, Lightning put it best. Approaching a group of preservationists (which I think around here the majority are ??) and asking about radical modification of something (in historic building terms, not so much changing the heating/plumbing as merely facade retention) and you're guaranteed to either get a load of angry locals with pitch forks and burning torches chasing you out of the village or being cited for trolling.

Best to ask a question where it's more likely to gain a sympathetic ear, than moan and bellyache about getting opinions and not the answer you want.

In radically altering a vehicle, do beware of:

• cost/hassle of doing the conversion in the first place
• cost/hassle of correcting the registration paperwork/tax
• cost/hassle of obtaining insurance cover / declaring all modifications.
• altering the market value of a vehicle (can be up or usually down).
• finding someone prepared to work on it (if you are not DIYing it) before/during/after that actually knows what they are doing.

cotton

OP, the other option would be to get a classic american car that was built with a diesel engine.

hi5

cotton wrote: »

OP, the other option would be to get a classic american car that was built with a diesel engine.

Just as thirsty and unreliable too:(

cotton

hi5 wrote: »

Just as thirsty and unreliable too:(

With the Caddy being very reliable as an everyday car & doing 34 to the gallon, I'd beg to differ.

ianobrien

OP, there are a few things to be wary of.

Financially, forget it. The resulting car will be worth a lot less than before. Also, when you add up the cost of buying the engine/'box/diff and the fabrication of mounts, prop, exhaust etc you will have to do a lot of mileage to recover the cost.

Driving experience. If you get an old rattly engine it will destroy the driving experience. If you go for a modern diesel, you will have fun wiring the whole lot in.

Fabrication. Basically, if you can't do it yourself, the cost will be prohibitive due to the custom fabrication. The reason for the Jap cars being converted is that there was a diesel one built by the factory, meaning that it's just a case of parts swapping.

Basically OP, if you have to get somebody to do the work, it's not financially sound. Also, any money spent on the car and conversion can be taken as lost as there will be zero market for the resultant car (unless you drop in a twin turbo 3.0 BMW motor and finish to an exceptional standard)

kev1.3s

What about if you were to reverse the argument,
Lets say someone was to buy a lancia flavia which is a 2.0 four cylinders boxer unit and dropping an engine from a wrx impreza into it which requires minimal work this would no doubt enhance the performance but not the the mpg would everybody be so critical?
I personally wouldn't like this myself but I'd find it much more easy to take than the opposite.

stackerman

I know its not as per thread, but How about this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR6-BMW-M3-Driveline-Nut-Bolt-Frame-Off-Restoration-66Pics-/330719023806?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4d0063d2be

Not sure about mpg though

Have to admire the effort, skill and work involved.
I'd love to look it over, as this example is just amazing.
But would I do it . . . No way.

firefly08

OP, have you done your sums? What kind of fuel economy saving do you expect to get? Do you know how long it'll take you to recoup the cost of the conversion? It's not hard to work these things out but so few people ever seem to do it. Diesel is no silver bullet for solving the cost of motoring.

Going by this Damien fella's add, you're looking at 3K for the conversion, presumably with an engine you supply. Add up the cost of that, plus the cost of the original car, minus what the car will be worth immediately after the conversion, and you have the total cost of the conversion. Let's just assume that the car and diesel engine were free so the total cost to you is 3K.

What's the difference in fuel economy going to be? Let's pick fairly typical figures - 20mpg for a classic guzzler, 40 for a diesel... sound fair? (I know you can get better diesels, but then you're looking at big bucks).

With those MPG figures and current prices (1.70 vs 1.60) you're looking at a cost of 38c/mile vs 18c/mile. Now, to make up 3000 euros out of 20c (the difference in cost per mile), that means you'll have to do around 15,000 miles to save back the 3K you spent on the conversion - in other words, 15k miles to break even. Then you start saving 20c per mile.

And remember, all that was assuming you had a free car and free diesel 40MPG engine. In reality you'll probably have to buy the engine and the conversion may cause severe depreciation to your car.

That may be worth it to you - maybe you do that kind of mileage in 6 months for all we know. That means you'd save 3K in the first year and 6K per year thereafter when compared to driving the classic with it's original engine. But most people probably do less than 5K/year in their classic cars anyway so they would probably be waiting 3 years just for it to pay back the cost of conversion.

firefly08

I know its not as per thread, but How about this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR...item4d0063d2be

Not sure about mpg though

Have to admire the effort, skill and work involved.
I'd love to look it over, as this example is just amazing.
But would I do it . . . No way.

From the add..

.I will include FREE enclosed shipping to the Port in Houston, TX if exporting (I have a bid for $1,075 USD to ship to the UK from Schumacher Cargo Logistics). I have a specialty carrier that owes me a favor that ships my bikes around for me so I'll pull in that marker for you.***

Haha I can't believe this but that car is located about 30 miles from me right now, in Overland Park (I live in Lawrence) . Let me know if you want me to go and check it out for ya

stackerman

firefly08 wrote: »

From the add..



Haha I can't believe this but that car is located about 30 miles from me right now, in Overland Park (I live in Lawrence) . Let me know if you want me to go and check it out for ya

DONT tempt me
Wouldn't you just LOVE me to ask you to " check it out for me" and take her for a spin !!

The workmanship in that is awesome. If only I had "loadsa money" !

Ford4000

To be honest im horrified by this thread...
I for one thought this was the classic cars section not the 'Must preserve old cars in totally 100% original condition section or be scorned or burned at the stake section'
Classic cars have been modified for years and years and years
If the op wants to put a diesel engine in what used to be a 10=15mpg car then why not!!
Men with escorts have been putting corrola, zetec and even twin cam fiat engines in em for a lifetime as it achieves what they want ....more power more reliability etc...well the fiat doesnt tick the reliability box trust me i know.

I suppose its time i left this section never to return as i plan to fit a 2.0 zetec in my Avenger running on bike carbs.....im sure some of the die hards have already fainted or passed out !

The classic car scene has so many different types of enthusiast as another poster mentioned, what wasnt mentioned was that some people who have a classic car never bring it to a show they just like to have it to go for a spin themselves and enjoy it regardless of the engine, what if the owner was very unmechanically minded?? I think a diesel would be a much safer bet than the hassle of a carb set up on a V12???

I love this ! An old roller i could tow a cow box with !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagEVkeuoNE

Anyway i hope the fascination some here have with ringers etc that has all but taken over this section doesnt end up shunning the modified classic owners aswell, its everyones hobby, the vintage 'police' should politely f*** off......
Apologies for my tone but this thread has really really annoyed me

birchtree

To me, classic cars are all about pleasure of driving, and there is nothing pleasurable about diesels. I have nothing against replacing old technologies with modern ones, but that's the beauty of it when you can put straight exhaust in and listen to the growl. Even race diesel engines sound like London taxi cabs, not like real racing engines!

Basil Fawlty

Ford4000 wrote: »

I love this ! An old roller i could tow a cow box with !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagEVkeuoNE

My freaking ears!

firefly08

My freaking ears!

Haha I bet it beeps when you put it in reverse too, and if you open the boot a voice says "Stand clear...luggage doors operayating"

Big Nasty

cotton wrote: »

With the Caddy being very reliable as an everyday car & doing 34 to the gallon, I'd beg to differ.

I do see that Caddy around Dun Laoghaire quite a bit lately Ray!

alastair

Diesel transplants beyond the norm are a lot of work:
http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=print&thread=89817

Maybe LPG is a more straightforward alternative - even if finding someone to sell the fuel is kind of hard to come by?

Have to agree (as the driver of a small TDI) that the sound of a diesel can kill the soul of certain cars.