How to revive the Irish language.

Cú Giobach

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Oh, I must have missed where Irish was made optional in schools :rolleyes:

I'm afraid the compulsion debate is something I'm not interested in, hence my not discussing it.

but instead in making snarky remarks about being stuck in the past (which, to be frank, I find hilarious in the context of this debate)....

Because you "Can't see the wood for the trees" and equate a desire to preserve the Irish language only with Irish nationalism, and can't see the bigger picture in the context of the worldwide diversity of languages, which because of my interest in languages in general, is why I am having this debate.

:rolleyes:
Usually I try and come up with something more thought out that a roll eyes emoticon, but it's pretty obvious at this stage that you're not interested in actually discussing the language

I have discussed it with you since last night, having short term memory problems are you?

I've made my points ie. preserving worldwide linguistic and cultural diversity, plus giving the reasons why.
You have made yours ie. not preserving same but no explanation why, except irrelevant comments based around sentimentality of things Irish, which to add is actually quite a valid reason for the preservation of one's culture and one most people around the world feel, thus enabling the diversity we have.

I think our chat has run its course, so good day sir/madam, enjoy your mono-cultural, monolingual, rather boring world.
Bye.

delthedriver

An Coilean wrote: »

You havent been to a Fleadh Ceol recently have you?

As for chatting in Irish, yep thats still going strong too.

Gone forever? Nope.

You are correct, I have never been to a Fleadh Ceoil, and despite having attained honours Irish at Leaving Cert level , I have no desire to attend one either. It does not mean I wouldn't listen to Irish music . Irish simply needs to be taken out of the school curriculum and allowed continue as it will simply as part of our heritage in the same way as playing rugby and polo is part of our heritage.

Qualitymark

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But whats stopping them now? If someone would genuinely like to understand a language, it could not be easier to do so today with all the resources available online. And furthermore, why should everyone be forced to study a language based on the fact some people lament on something they didn't do as a teenager? We're drifting back to sentimentality here again; "God, I wish I had done something as a kid, even though it is a nessecary requirement of life now".

This is always what I wonder - but many, many people who would like to take a course in something they're interested in don't get around to it. Reminds me, must put myself down for sailing, tap-dancing and bicycle repair classes.

Interest in History

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Ah, Irish is compulsory because that is also what the people want. Politicians tend to do things because of the votes that are in it for them....

I think that there are two relevant aspects to this.

The Language Lobby is highly organised and is able to mobilise its vote. So a comparatively few number of people can put the frighteners on the politicians, as they did in the last election when Enda Kenny and Fine Gael advoced free choice in Irish for the Leaving Cert.

On the other hand, people who want less Irish don't care all that much about the question. It does not effect their actual lives in Ireland's actual English-speaking world. Their childen learn enough of it to satisfy the people in power and after that they forget all about it.

Anyway: make it a subject of choice in the Leaving Cert - and see then who wants to continue with it for their final two years in school. If you are right, then almost everybody will! Of course, if you are wrong - then it's Goodnight Vienna for the national plan to achieve significant language shift among our people. Which is why the politicians shy away from the challange.

Birroc

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The importance of language.
In every thread we see the usual argument of "language is just a tool for communication". Language goes way beyond just communication, we think in language so what language you think in has a bearing on how you think, and how you think has a bearing on the person you are.
The language/s you speak is/are part of what defines you as a human being, and how you view the world around you.

Cultural diversity.
We constantly hear the "It's a bog language for boggers" comments.
Every single culture and language on the planet is special and irreplaceable, as I said earlier that is something we cannot buy or put a price on but only treasure. It is a poorer world as each one is lost.
Respect them all, including the one on this island.

Education is the key to reviving the Irish language, but for many not education in the language itself , yet.

I admire your enthusiasm but I have to say your reasons for keeping Irish alive are stretched very thin above. I am sure you believe it but I doubt the majority would. And I am a bogger living in the bog!

PS. I'll sell you some turf.

Cú Giobach

Interest in History wrote: »

I think that there are two relevant aspects to this.

The Language Lobby is highly organised and is able to mobilise its vote. So a comparatively few number of people can put the frighteners on the politicians, as they did in the last election when Enda Kenny and Fine Gael advoced free choice in Irish for the Leaving Cert.

On the other hand, people who want less Irish don't care all that much about the question. It does not effect their actual lives in Ireland's actual English-speaking world. Their childen learn enough of it to satisfy the people in power and after that they forget all about it.

Anyway: make it a subject of choice in the Leaving Cert - and see then who wants to continue with it for their final two years in school. If you are right, then almost everybody will! Of course, if you are wrong - then it's Goodnight Vienna for the national plan to achieve significant language shift among our people. Which is why the politicians shy away from the challange.

If you are right with your analysis above and those that don't want it compulsory feel less strongly than those that do, added with the apparent majority* wanting it remain so, then isn't the obvious choice based on those realities to continue with compulsion.


* Don't ask me for proof, it's been done to absolute death here with evidence always produced for a majority in favour, but none ever produced against.

Cú Giobach

Birroc wrote: »

I admire your enthusiasm but I have to say your reasons for keeping Irish alive are stretched very thin above. I am sure you believe it but I doubt the majority would.

Most people do indeed want it for different reasons, but I can only speak for myself. I love languages and Irish is just one I like, for me in ranking it actually comes in between German and Welsh.
I would actually defend the learning of any language.

And I am a bogger living in the bog!
PS. I'll sell you some turf.

PM your bank details and I'll send you some money. 50 bags please.
Only cow fields around here and I would much rather live in a bog than in cow shite, you lucky bogger you.

Ray Palmer

Make it a programming language that is truely useful. More people will learn it and it would boost the economy!

Interest in History

Cú Giobach wrote: »

If you are right with your analysis above and those that don't want it compulsory feel less strongly than those that do, added with the apparent majority* wanting it remain so, then isn't the obvious choice based on those realities to continue with compulsion.


* Don't ask me for proof, it's been done to absolute death here with evidence always produced for a majority in favour, but none ever produced against.

Yes: it is logical for those who are engaged in the maintenance of Irish to want to see compulsory Irish in the Leaving Cert continue. They know that that is the only way that it will continue, even at its present level.

Cú Giobach

Interest in History wrote: »

Yes: it is logical for those who are engaged in the maintenance of Irish to want to see compulsory Irish in the Leaving Cert continue. They know that that is the only way that it will continue, even at its present level.

OK

Scanlas The 2nd

Birroc wrote: »

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The importance of language.
In every thread we see the usual argument of "language is just a tool for communication". Language goes way beyond just communication, we think in language so what language you think in has a bearing on how you think, and how you think has a bearing on the person you are.
The language/s you speak is/are part of what defines you as a human being, and how you view the world around you.

Cultural diversity.
We constantly hear the "It's a bog language for boggers" comments.
Every single culture and language on the planet is special and irreplaceable, as I said earlier that is something we cannot buy or put a price on but only treasure. It is a poorer world as each one is lost.
Respect them all, including the one on this island.

Education is the key to reviving the Irish language, but for many not education in the language itself , yet.

I admire your enthusiasm but I have to say your reasons for keeping Irish alive are stretched very thin above. I am sure you believe it but I doubt the majority would. And I am a bogger living in the bog!

PS. I'll sell you some turf.

How about this reason, a lot of people want it kept alive.

Cú Giobach

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

How about this reason, a lot of people want kept alive.

Perfect.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The very first step in reviving any language does not involve the methods of teaching or even the teaching of a single word of that language, the first steps are, Teaching what language actually is and its importance to human beings, the ability to use basic logic to decide what is important or not and the importance of conserving, the irreplaceable uniqueness of, and how special every single culture/language on the planet is.


The importance of language.
In every thread we see the usual argument of "language is just a tool for communication". Language goes way beyond just communication, we think in language so what language you think in has a bearing on how you think, and how you think has a bearing on the person you are.
The language/s you speak is/are part of what defines you as a human being, and how you view the world around you.

Disagree with you here. Where is the connection between logical thinking and language? Logic is more the product of maths and science, it has very little to do with language. And even if it did, why Irish? Why not some other language?

Logic.
We constantly hear the "Number of speakers worldwide" argument, learning Mandarin will not give me the ability to speak to over a billion people, in fact learning the language wouldn't be remotely relevant compared to the difficulty in building the time machine I would need to constantly go back over the number of human lifetimes needed to converse with that number of people.
To quote myself from an earlier post "Learning a language spoken by 5 billion people is worthless if you have no reason to meet those people, and learning a language spoken by 500 is very worthwhile if you deal with those people every day."

But if those 500 people already speak a laanguage you speak, why learn a secodn language to converse in them? I have about 20 Russian freinds here who all speak English - what would be the logic of me learnign Russian?

The logic simply is there there are not enough non-English speaking Irish people on this island to make learnign it nessecary.

Cultural diversity.
We constantly hear the "It's a bog language for boggers" comments.
Every single culture and language on the planet is special and irreplaceable, as I said earlier that is something we cannot buy or put a price on but only treasure. It is a poorer world as each one is lost.
Respect them all, including the one on this island.

Disagree with you here. Where is the connection between logical thinking and language? Logic is more the product of maths and science, it has very little to do with language. And even if it did, why Irish? Why not some other language?

The bog language reference is boorish and ignorant, granted. But that said, you have to realsie thst a lot of people do not see the langauge as a treasure, they see it as an obstacle and a nuisance, and there is nothing wrong with this opinion. I've always seem culture as something that I can take or leave. I don't like GAA? No one forces me to play it. Fine. I don;t like trad Irish music and dance? Fine. No one forces it one me. I don't like Irish langauge? Woah, this people decide had to be forced on me.

Long story short, I don't do or think or enjoy anything that is culturally Irish, but this doesn't make me any less of a person.

Education is the key to reviving the Irish language, but for many not education in the language itself , yet.

Education means encouraging people to think for themselves. If you accept this, then you ahve to accept that a lot of people - not neesecarily a majority - will not have any great affinity for the language, no matter how it important to them personally. A lot of these people will be teenagers.

Are you ready to teach them that their dislike of the language is valid and are you ready to teach them how to present their point in a debate?

Lord TSC

Interest in History wrote: »

The Language Lobby is highly organised and is able to mobilise its vote. So a comparatively few number of people can put the frighteners on the politicians, as they did in the last election when Enda Kenny and Fine Gael advoced free choice in Irish for the Leaving Cert.

On the other hand, people who want less Irish don't care all that much about the question. It does not effect their actual lives in Ireland's actual English-speaking world. Their childen learn enough of it to satisfy the people in power and after that they forget all about it.

Spot on here, really.

Here's the thing (and going back to the original question); in order to "revive" the Irish language, there needs to be a change in tactics. Unfortunately, a lot of people who want a resurgence in the language are also happy with the status quo and don't want to risk going backwards. As such, these topics pop up every now and again and always degenerate into the same circle of arguments.

"How can we improve the numbers of Irish speakers?"
"Well you could try X, Y or Z."
"Ah, but those could backfire and lead to a loss in numbers. Better not take the risk and stick with what we have now."

And repeat. There's not a desire on the revivalists side to take a chance at a new approach, and these topics always end the same way; with nothing new having been contributed, and no desire to try any new ideas .

Cú Giobach

Very hard post to read but I think I found your points.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Disagree with you here. Where is the connection between logical thinking and language? Logic is more the product of maths and science, it has very little to do with language. And even if it did, why Irish? Why not some other language?

It is illogical to say you will get the chance to speak to billions of people by learning Mandarin.

But if those 500 people already speak a laanguage you speak, why learn a secodn language to converse in them? I have about 20 Russian freinds here who all speak English - what would be the logic of me learnign Russian?

Very simple comment that obviously went over your head, why should I learn a language spoken by 5 billion I will never meet, when I could learn the language of the 500 I will meet.

The logic simply is there there are not enough non-English speaking Irish people on this island to make learnign it nessecary.

Nobody said it was necessary for communication reasons only.

The bog language reference is boorish and ignorant, granted. But that said, you have to realsie thst a lot of people do not see the langauge as a treasure, they see it as an obstacle and a nuisance, and there is nothing wrong with this opinion. I've always seem culture as something that I can take or leave. I don't like GAA? No one forces me to play it. Fine. I don;t like trad Irish music and dance? Fine. No one forces it one me.

It's a grand opinion, each to their own, but on media such as this expect your opinion to be questioned or else don't partake.

I don't like Irish langauge? Woah, this people decide had to be forced on me.

My heart bleeds, but sorry not my problem.

Long story short, I don't do or think or enjoy anything that is culturally Irish, but this doesn't make me any less of a person.

You tell 'em boyo.

Education means encouraging people to think for themselves. If you accept this, then you ahve to accept that a lot of people - not neesecarily a majority - will not have any great affinity for the language, no matter how it important to them personally. A lot of these people will be teenagers.

Nice statement of the obvious.

Are you ready to teach them that their dislike of the language is valid and are you ready to teach them how to present their point in a debate?

I'm not gonna teach anyone anything, though the clear presentation of a point in a debate does seem tricky for some alright.

An Coilean

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Spot on here, really.

Here's the thing (and going back to the original question); in order to "revive" the Irish language, there needs to be a change in tactics. Unfortunately, a lot of people who want a resurgence in the language are also happy with the status quo and don't want to risk going backwards. As such, these topics pop up every now and again and always degenerate into the same circle of arguments.

"How can we improve the numbers of Irish speakers?"
"Well you could try X, Y or Z."
"Ah, but those could backfire and lead to a loss in numbers. Better not take the risk and stick with what we have now."

And repeat. There's not a desire on the revivalists side to take a chance at a new approach, and these topics always end the same way; with nothing new having been contributed, and no desire to try any new ideas .

The only thing you are referencing here is making Irish optional, there is no Y or Z. Believe me if you have any ideas besides making Irish optional, lets hear them.
First of all, making Irish optional is rarely suggested with the intention of improving the number of Irish speakers, more usually it is pushed by those who don't care about reviving the language, or are activly against it, so I think you can forgive the revival movement for being doubious at best, and second there is no evidience that making Irish optional will have anything but a negative effect.

Do you really blame revivalists for not going with an Idea pushed by people who don't care about or are actively hostile to their goals, which on the balance of evidence is quite likely to have a negative effect.

Lets not forget that when second language leanguage learning was made optional in England it was an absolute disaster for the numbers learning a second language there.

indioblack

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Fair enough, it was actually an add on to make my post more relevant to the quoted post.



The more I have read these "Irish language" threads on boards the more I have begun to realise something.

The very first step in reviving any language does not involve the methods of teaching or even the teaching of a single word of that language, the first steps are, Teaching what language actually is and its importance to human beings, the ability to use basic logic to decide what is important or not and the importance of conserving, the irreplaceable uniqueness of, and how special every single culture/language on the planet is.

The importance of language.
In every thread we see the usual argument of "language is just a tool for communication". Language goes way beyond just communication, we think in language so what language you think in has a bearing on how you think, and how you think has a bearing on the person you are.
The language/s you speak is/are part of what defines you as a human being, and how you view the world around you.

Maybe that's why Irish has not enjoyed the revival it's proponents expected. You've all been thinking in English!

Interest in History

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

How about this reason, a lot of people want it kept alive.

The confusion in th whole national language debate - not just this current example - arises from two completely different phenomena being intermingled.

The first is the existence of a wish on the part of an individual or group to use one or another language of their choice.

The second phenomenon is the wish of an idividual or group to impose their choice of language on others who don't have the wish to use it.

The first is the exercise of freedom; the second is its denial.

The serious debate should never be about the why's and wherefore's of what I choose for myself. It should only be about the legitimacy of my choice being imposed on others.

Lord TSC

An Coilean wrote: »

The only thing you are referencing here is making Irish optional, there is no Y or Z. Believe me if you have any ideas besides making Irish optional, lets hear them.
First of all, making Irish optional is rarely suggested with the intention of improving the number of Irish speakers, more usually it is pushed by those who don't care about reviving the language, or are activly against it, so I think you can forgive the revival movement for being doubious at best, and second there is no evidience that making Irish optional will have anything but a negative effect.

The reason I personally always bring up compulsion vs optional is becasue I think to start a revival, you've got to tackle the resentment a lot of people have. The resentment towards the Irish language is bred in the fact its compulsory up to leaving cert. Making it optional past JC would mean people would have plenty of time to study it, get the basics learned and start developing a passion. If after the JC people still don't want to learn it, then it shouldn't be forced on them.

I get it would probably see less speakers, but for me, that just shows that a revival isn't nessecary, since obviously plenty of people could get by perfectly fine without Irish. I guess that's the problem here. One side's stance is "Irish should be learned and studied by those who want to study it, who have a passion for it" and the other is "Irish should be learned by all regardless of what they want, it should be forced on people regardless of passion."

If you want people to speak Irish, you have to get over the ideology of forcing it on people. You need to tackle the resentment. That's not just in school, mind. Look back at the opening post to see a suggestion that it should even be forced on people after school as well :S

I don't want to see the language die. I just think that you need to make sure the focus is being put towards those with a passion for it, and if the language drops off because people are given a choice, then perhaps you have to ask why that is?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Very hard post to read but I think I found your points.


It is illogical to say you will get the chance to speak to billions of people by learning Mandarin.

Very simple comment that obviously went over your head, why should I learn a language spoken by 5 billion I will never meet, when I could learn the language of the 500 I will meet.

Nobody said it was necessary for communication reasons only.

It's a grand opinion, each to their own, but on media such as this expect your opinion to be questioned or else don't partake.

My heart bleeds, but sorry not my problem.

You tell 'em boyo.

Nice statement of the obvious.

I'm not gonna teach anyone anything, though the clear presentation of a point in a debate does seem tricky for some alright.

1 - Never said anything about Mandarian...?
2 - I answered this: there is no NEED to learn either language for this specific purpose.
3 - Relating solely to logic, communictaion is the main prupose of a lanaguage.
4 - I've no problem with my opinion being questioned, what would you like to ask?
5 - Not mine either, now that I've turned 18. But you've missed the point: why is language compulsory, but other cultural Irish activities not?
5 - ... and your point is?
6 - So you accept hath students should be listended to and have their opinions validated?
7 - So you accept that students not liking the Irish langauge and wanting to study somehing else instead is fine. Okay. So we agree there.

Also, if you stop over-multiquoting, reponses will be easier to read.

Interest in History

An Coilean wrote: »

....First of all, making Irish optional is rarely suggested with the intention of improving the number of Irish speakers, more usually it is pushed by those who don't care about reviving the language, or are activly against it, so I think you can forgive the revival movement for being doubious at best, and second there is no evidience that making Irish optional will have anything but a negative effect.....
QUOTE]


These statements are obviously true. So the question becomes:

"In terms of civil rights, is it proper that the wishes of those who don't care about the reviving of Irish, or who are actively against it, are permanently subordinated through politic power to those with opposite views, that is, to the revivalists?"

indioblack

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The reason I personally always bring up compulsion vs optional is becasue I think to start a revival, you've got to tackle the resentment a lot of people have. The resentment towards the Irish language is bred in the fact its compulsory up to leaving cert. Making it optional past JC would mean people would have plenty of time to study it, get the basics learned and start developing a passion. If after the JC people still don't want to learn it, then it shouldn't be forced on them.

I get it would probably see less speakers, but for me, that just shows that a revival isn't nessecary, since obviously plenty of people could get by perfectly fine without Irish. I guess that's the problem here. One side's stance is "Irish should be learned and studied by those who want to study it, who have a passion for it" and the other is "Irish should be learned by all regardless of what they want, it should be forced on people regardless of passion."

If you want people to speak Irish, you have to get over the ideology of forcing it on people. You need to tackle the resentment. That's not just in school, mind. Look back at the opening post to see a suggestion that it should even be forced on people after school as well :S

I don't want to see the language die. I just think that you need to make sure the focus is being put towards those with a passion for it, and if the language drops off because people are given a choice, then perhaps you have to ask why that is?

The Irish language won't die. I'd hazard that most people in Ireland have some emotional attachment to it.
They just don't want to learn it.

_Kaiser_

I still cannot believe in this day and age that we are still talking about propping up a language that despite millions being thrown at it over the years, dedicated regions to speak it in, and unfair favoritism shown it in our already pressurised school system, and hundreds of hours spent per year teaching it, is for all intents and purposes dead and buried and of absolutely no practical value to our kids.

That doesn't mean I'm saying "kill it off now", but it DOES need to be removed from our schools (just as religion should be). If you want your kid to learn their "cultural heritage" then take some initiative and teach it to them yourself (it wouldn't do any harm for a lot of parents to become more personally involved anyway rather than expecting the school and TV/internet to raise their kids), or get grinds, or send them to a Gaeltact school, but don't expect 25/30 other kids to have to suffer through it - especially where a good percentage of those kids may not have even been born here (ditto religion, although with the seemingly endless scandals and stories of shocking abuse coming from the Catholic church I'm amazed anyone can "in good faith" support it at this stage).

Ultimately it's very simple.. the country is broke, our "well educated workforce" is a myth as our education standards continue to slip down the international rankings, and those companies we rely so much on to keep the show running (the Google's, Microsoft's, Intel's of this world) have repeatedly had to import workers to fill jobs our own kids can't do.

I actually lived in Holland for a few years as a kid back in the mid-80s and even back then every child in my class spoke at least 2 languages fluently (Dutch and English) and in most cases 1/2 more... in effect the classrooms then were what ours are becoming now - a diverse multicultural environment.

Small wonder then I suppose that 20 years on these kids (and many more like them) are coming here to take up jobs while our own are forced to join the dole queues or emigrate and take their chances.

Scanlas The 2nd

Interest in History wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

How about this reason, a lot of people want it kept alive.

The confusion in th whole national language debate - not just this current example - arises from two completely different phenomena being intermingled.

The first is the existence of a wish on the part of an individual or group to use one or another language of their choice.

The second phenomenon is the wish of an idividual or group to impose their choice of language on others who don't have the wish to use it.

The first is the exercise of freedom; the second is its denial.

The serious debate should never be about the why's and wherefore's of what I choose for myself. It should only be about the legitimacy of my choice being imposed on others.

Should we impose maths, geography and history on others?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Should we impose maths, geography and history on others?

Nope. No subject should be copulsory after the Leaving. Two of those are optional after the Leaving anyway.

Ficheall

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Nope. No subject should be copulsory after the Leaving. Two of those are optional after the Leaving anyway.

Do you mean after the Junior Cert... or...? Or am I missing something relevant?

Cú Giobach

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

1 - Never said anything about Mandarian...?
2 - I answered this: there is no NEED to learn either language for this specific purpose.
3 - Relating solely to logic, communictaion is the main prupose of a lanaguage.
4 - I've no problem with my opinion being questioned, what would you like to ask?
5 - Not mine either, now that I've turned 18. But you've missed the point: why is language compulsory, but other cultural Irish activities not?
5 - ... and your point is?
6 - So you accept hath students should be listended to and have their opinions validated?
7 - So you accept that students not liking the Irish langauge and wanting to study somehing else instead is fine. Okay. So we agree there.

Also, if you stop over-multiquoting, reponses will be easier to read.

Since you are not debating any of the points I actually raised in the initial post you quoted and instead just seem to be reading random words and responding to your own brain, I think I will leave off "chatting" with you.
Are you drunk?

HelloYoungBoy

The Irish Language isnt a Pokemon, you cant revive it

podgeandrodge

C&#250 wrote: »

If you are right with your analysis above and those that don't want it compulsory feel less strongly than those that do, added with the apparent majority* wanting it remain so, then isn't the obvious choice based on those realities to continue with compulsion.


* Don't ask me for proof, it's been done to absolute death here with evidence always produced for a majority in favour, but none ever produced against.

The "majority" will always say they want Irish retained. Much like the majority of smokers will say they want to give up. It's an answer that just comes naturally because Irish people feel a moral obligation to defend it to an extent. Ask them should vast amounts of public money be spent on trying to keep it alive and I reckon a majority will say No. Ask them should people get extra marks in other subjects simply for answering in Irish and they will say No.

Anyone here going to defend the huge disgraceful waste of public money being spent on Irish translations of English documents? Every piece of rubbish coming in our door being doubled up to abide by the Official Languages Act?

RTE using our license fees spending money on guaranteeing a proportion of Irish language programming? Even when we have TG4 already subsidised to do the same thing? Mad!


Irish is a "nice to have". If it had a future this debate would have ended years ago as people would have actually used it.

Irish = Sky Sports. Pay for it if you're interested.

Cú Giobach

podgeandrodge wrote: »

The "majority" will always say they want Irish retained. Much like the majority of smokers will say they want to give up. It's an answer that just comes naturally because Irish people feel a moral obligation to defend it to an extent. Ask them should vast amounts of public money be spent on trying to keep it alive and I reckon a majority will say No. Ask them should people get extra marks in other subjects simply for answering in Irish and they will say No.

Anyone here going to defend the huge disgraceful waste of public money being spent on Irish translations of English documents? Every piece of rubbish coming in our door being doubled up to abide by the Official Languages Act?

RTE using our license fees spending money on guaranteeing a proportion of Irish language programming? Even when we have TG4 already subsidised to do the same thing? Mad!


Irish is a "nice to have". If it had a future this debate would have ended years ago as people would have actually used it.

Irish = Sky Sports. Pay for it if you're interested.

Nice rant. Feel better?