Would an Ulster win at Thomond prove Kidney wrong?

Kayless

Provisional bias aside, tomorrow's match should make for interesting viewing. At 13 we have Earls v Cave at 11 Zebo v Gilroy and most of all at 9 we have Murray v Marshall (we he comes on)

Now I understand Ulster have 1 extra non Irish player but Munster have home advantage so if Ulster win might the likes of Cave, Gilroy and especially Marshall get a call up?

Personally i think the latter two have been outstanding and can not for the life of me understand why Kidney has overlooked Marshall.

Would be terrible for Irish rugby

- Hugh Farrelly

niallon

It would more so prove that on the day they were better. Leinster, Ulster and Munster have their fair share of embarrassing defeats through the years but still their players have made the core of the national team. God I sound like Kidney! But think back to 09,when Leinster ran rings around Munster in Croke, wouldn't have called for a Munster cull then

Big Nelly

Did the results in the 6N already prove Kidney wrong????????

Brendan97

Kayless wrote: »

Provisional bias aside, tomorrow's match should make for interesting viewing. At 13 we have Earls v Cave at 11 Zebo v Gilroy and most of all at 9 we have Murray v Marshall (we he comes on)

Now I understand Ulster have 1 extra non Irish player but Munster have home advantage so if Ulster win might the likes of Cave, Gilroy and especially Marshall get a call up?

Imo marshall completely outclasses murray, its a shame he doesnt start instead of humphries with peinarr (excuse spelling if wrong) at out-half
Zebo will probably have the upperhand although you cant rule out gilroy
Cave will be evenly matched because earls has played alot better at 13 recently
I hope tuohy plays well because i think he is the best lock in ireland except POC

danthefan

I don't think Kidney needs much more proving wrong.

val_jester

Brendan97 wrote: »

Imo marshall completely outclasses murray, its a shame he doesnt start instead of humphries with peinarr (excuse spelling if wrong) at out-half
Zebo will probably have the upperhand although you cant rule out gilroy
Cave will be evenly matched because earls has played alot better at 13 recently
I hope tuohy plays well because i think he is the best lock in ireland except POC

There is a reason Marshall doesn't start for Ulster, they are much better with Pienaar at nine from the start. Marshall is brilliant at coming on late in the game when players are tired and it has broken up a bit but he lacks control needed from the start, his pass can also be erratic.

Ryan v Tuohy is 50/50 both have been very good this season.
Cave is a better 13 than Earls, Gilroy has shown more at this
level at than Zebo.

But the main fault of Kidney was at 12 and Wallace will show how well
he has been playing this season.

bleg

Yawn...

Fishooks12

This thread should be fun...

dougieruggie

I think Kidney is pretty set in his ways.

Put it this way, Donnacha O'Callaghan still starts for Ireland.
Healy didn't get a chance ahead of Marcus Horan until injury.
Ross didn't get a chance ahead of Buckley AND Hayes until injury
Sean O'Brien didn't get a chance until injury (he was even behind Leamy for awhile)
O'Gara started in the QF
Murray leaped ahead of Reddan and started in the QF
POM plays a few good games and gets ahead of Henry despite Henry being excellent for the last two seasons now.
Earls ahead of Trimble in the WC despite Trimble being by far our best back in the warm ups to the world cup

In Kidney's mind you're at a specific disadvantage if your not in the Munster set up. You are at a HUGE disadvantage if your in the Ulster or Connacht set up.

leftleg

Kidneys never wrong; Its Ulster and Leinsters fault for holding O Malley, Falloon, Marshall, O' Connell, Henryand Toner out of the team for "much better" NIQ players; just ask Farrelly.

liammur

Kayless wrote: »

Provisional bias aside, tomorrow's match should make for interesting viewing. At 13 we have Earls v Cave at 11 Zebo v Gilroy and most of all at 9 we have Murray v Marshall (we he comes on)

Now I understand Ulster have 1 extra non Irish player but Munster have home advantage so if Ulster win might the likes of Cave, Gilroy and especially Marshall get a call up?

Personally i think the latter two have been outstanding and can not for the life of me understand why Kidney has overlooked Marshall.

No, nor will a munster win prove him right.

skregs

leftleg wrote: »

Kidneys never wrong; Its Ulster and Leinsters fault for holding O Malley, Falloon, Marshall, O' Connell, Henryand Toner out of the team for "much better" NIQ players; just ask Farrelly.

Whereas a Munster backline consisting of Warwick, Howlett, Tipoki and Mafi had no effect on our young Munster backs at all. Sure Earls learned so much sitting on that bench for two years until Tipoki's contract expired.

marco_polo

skregs wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

Kidneys never wrong; Its Ulster and Leinsters fault for holding O Malley, Falloon, Marshall, O' Connell, Henryand Toner out of the team for "much better" NIQ players; just ask Farrelly.

Whereas a Munster backline consisting of Warwick, Howlett, Tipoki and Mafi had no effect on our young Munster backs at all. Sure Earls learned so much sitting on that bench for two years until Tipoki's contract expired.

You may need a recalibration of sarcasm radar.

skregs

marco_polo wrote: »

You may need a recalibration of sarcasm radar.

skregs wrote: »

Whereas a Munster backline consisting of Warwick, Howlett, Tipoki and Mafi had no effect on our young Munster backs at all. Sure Earls learned so much sitting on that bench for two years until Tipoki's contract expired.

I believe you should follow your own advice

dougieruggie

skregs wrote: »

Whereas a Munster backline consisting of Warwick, Howlett, Tipoki and Mafi had no effect on our young Munster backs at all. Sure Earls learned so much sitting on that bench for two years until Tipoki's contract expired.

shhhhh your not allowed to say that.

For whatever reason, the media (in particularly Thornley) treat Munster as if they can do no wrong. Farrelly's article was ridiculous.

Anyone see Thornley's article today? Particularly the last paragraph....

duckysauce

dougieruggie wrote: »

Anyone see Thornley's article today? Particularly the last paragraph....

will see tomorrow after the match if he is right or wrong

Blackheath

I am surprised this tread has been so quiet today

tolosenc

We are all just horrified at the disaster that has befallen Irish rugby what with Ulster being in the semi-final...

.ak

Well atleast the IRFU and the Indo have early excuses in order for the farce that will be the NZ tour... :rolleyes:

liammur

I wasn't impressed with Ulster at all. Thought the referee was a shocker, but I did say that before the game. Edinburgh have every chance of making the final on this performance. As for Munster, writing has been on the wall for quite some time. simply a woeful performance :mad:

.ak

Ulster were fantastic in the first 35 minutes, and pretty damn good in the last 20. Ref was fine but let Munster away with murder in the second half.

liammur

My bet are Clermont, they have the most class. Ulster are lucky toulouse are gone, but Edinburgh are more than capable of doing a job on them.

I thought the ref practically handed the game to Ulster, but if munster were still playing, would they get a try?

Hagz

What's with all this ref helping Munster thing. I haven't looked throughout the match thread, but from a neutral, the ref didn't favor either side. He made a few dumb decisions but it didn't favor anyone.

dtpc191991

I felt desperately sorry for earls today. He has certainly become a future prospect at 13 and I think he could be very good if given the opportunity to work with a proper backs coach. He was one of the few Munster players that looked good today and dangerous in attack.

Hagz

dtpc191991 wrote: »

I felt desperately sorry for earls today. He has certainly become a future prospect at 13 and I think he could be very good if given the opportunity to work with a proper backs coach. He was one of the few Munster players that looked good today and dangerous in attack.

His pass for Zebo's try was pure class.

dtpc191991

Hagz wrote: »

His pass for Zebo's try was pure class.

Yeah that was a great pass. That flick out to Jones was fantastic. Jones unfortunately fluffed it but Earls had set up a real go forward opportunity there.

Moflojo

liammur wrote: »

My bet are Clermont, they have the most class. Ulster are lucky toulouse are gone, but Edinburgh are more than capable of doing a job on them.

I thought the ref practically handed the game to Ulster, but if munster were still playing, would they get a try?

Jaysus, could you be any more begrudging?!

Ulster deserve so much credit for their HC campaign this year. Not only have they stormed Fortress Thomond in a HC quarter final but when you think of the group that they emerged from, and nearly won, they have proved their class.

There's no point bringing the ref into it, on the balance of things it was a fair result today. Ulster were on the receiving end of some dubious officiating back in the pool stages (remember Dave Pearson?) so I think they're in a HC semi final on merit. They will rightly be favourites to beat Edinburgh and whoever comes out of the Leinster vs. Clermont battle will have to pull themselves back together pretty quickly if they're facing Ulster in the showpiece.

Best of luck to Ulster and Leinster in the semis, here's hoping for an all-Irish final!

Naomi00

Fair play to Ulster for winning that match, they deserved it more in the end. All this nonsense about how it's such a disaster for Irish rugby is embarrassing.

tolosenc

liammur wrote: »

I thought the ref practically handed the game to Ulster, but if munster were still playing, would they get a try?

Ref was fair, if at times lenient to Munster when it came to being off their feet. Munster's indiscipline is not the ref's fault.

Junkyard Dog

If by fair you mean he had a shocker that affected both teams then yes he was fair! Ulster deserved it they played fantastic Munster were terrible good luck in the semis lads I hope ye go all the way

shuffol

2 Defeats on the spin for Munster at TP, wonder whens the last time that happened. To suggest the ref favoured Ulster is really clutching at straws. Ferris, Henry and Best terrorised Munster at the breakdown all game. I assume a lot of the criticism is coming from people who were at the game and didnt have a proper view of what was happening.

Chavways

Ferris should be Irish captain in a few years

shuffol

Chavways wrote: »

Ferris should be Irish captain in a few years

In a few years he'll be retired.

Chavways

shuffol wrote: »

In a few years he'll be retired.

Well I mean in the next 2 years.He should be able to get to 29 or 30 before his knees completely give out on him.

rrpc

Junkyard Dog wrote: »

If by fair you mean he had a shocker that affected both teams then yes he was fair! Ulster deserved it they played fantastic Munster were terrible good luck in the semis lads I hope ye go all the way

If anything Ulster have more to complain about Poite than Munster do. Munster were penalised for indiscipline, something POC alluded to in his post-match interview. Henry's YC and the strange reverse scrum decision at the end were two that spring to mind that Ulster should have cause to complain about.

Overall though, I thought he reffed the game competently and good humouredly, certainly a far better performance than Owens had at the last fixture in TP.

ambid

Chavways wrote: »

Ferris should be Irish captain in a few years

He probably will be injured too much to be considered. He has missed an awful lot of rugby due to injury and having an injury prone captain would disrupt preparations.

Ferris doesn't even appear to be in line to captain Ulster. Ireland have plenty of better options for the captaincy to succeed O'Driscoll in O'Connell, Best, Heaslip, and O'Mahony.

rilz

Well played both sides on a very entertaining game. Thought Ulster played superb in the opening 35mins.

Munster was good in second half but all credit to a brilliant Ulster defense line.

ormond lad

ambid wrote: »

He probably will be injured too much to be considered. He has missed an awful lot of rugby due to injury and having an injury prone captain would disrupt preparations.

Ferris doesn't even appear to be in line to captain Ulster. Ireland have plenty of better options for the captaincy to succeed O'Driscoll in O'Connell, Best, Heaslip, and O'Mahony.

I hope you are messing, long way to go before something like that can even be considered.
POM may have captained Munster on a few occasions but their isnt a hope of him being in line for what you are suggesting

almighty1

ambid wrote: »

He probably will be injured too much to be considered. He has missed an awful lot of rugby due to injury and having an injury prone captain would disrupt preparations.

Ferris doesn't even appear to be in line to captain Ulster. Ireland have plenty of better options for the captaincy to succeed O'Driscoll in O'Connell, Best, Heaslip, and O'Mahony.

Why does it have to be a forward? IMO Sexton would be an excellent captain.

bilston

Ferris an inspirational figure for what he does on the field of play, I'd leave it at that personally, I just think there are others in Best, Kearney and maybe Sexton who are more suited to the role.

mr_edge_to_you

Did anyone bother to read the thread title?

I'm not sure it proves Kidney anymore wrong than he already is. I think it certainly changes things. Munster are now the 3rd ranking team.

I think it raises a more serious question about Ulster and David Humphries....how can they not back Brian mcLoughlin? Ulster have been building towards this for two years. He has done a phenomenol job up there. Ulster are also good to watch.

funky penguin

shuffol wrote: »

2 Defeats on the spin for Munster at TP, wonder whens the last time that happened.

Think I remember the commentators mention it was about 5 years ago.

rrpc

almighty1 wrote: »

Why does it have to be a forward? IMO Sexton would be an excellent captain.

Out half should never be captain. Apart from the fact that they already have a strong decision making role, there's the added responsibility of dealing with the ref and making decisions on penalties etc. Too easy to make the wrong decision in the heat of the moment.

bamboozle

per the original question is raises several facets of players/combinations at provincial level which DK chose to ignore.

Reddan/Sexton 9/10 axis.
Touhy, Henry, (and probably also Cave and Gilroy) deserve to be in a squad of 30 heading to NZ.

DOC is past it.
Heaslip and SOB in a leinster jersey have far greater impacts on games.

for the tour to NZ Touhy, Henry, Cave, Gilroy, Marshall, Zebo, Fitz and Mclaughlin have to go. Possibly also Sherry as 3rd choice hooker.

from the quarter finals over the weekend i though Mclaughlin was one of the best backrowers on show. His intelligence is great to watch in the lines he runs and the pace he comes onto the ball.

totallegend

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Did anyone bother to read the thread title?

I'm not sure it proves Kidney anymore wrong than he already is. I think it certainly changes things. Munster are now the 3rd ranking team.

I think it raises a more serious question about Ulster and David Humphries....how can they not back Brian mcLoughlin? Ulster have been building towards this for two years. He has done a phenomenol job up there. Ulster are also good to watch.

Yeah seems harsh to be giving him the bullet now alright.

Going back to the thread title, I think we saw a couple of things confirmed yesterday:
Tuohy deserves a shot. There is no room for debate on this.
Gilroy is far closer to being the finished article than Zebo.
Chris Henry is the closest thing we have to a proper 7.
Murray is far too ponderous; on one of the few occasions they got quick ball, Munster scored a try. Murray has the skills, just needs to use them.
O'Gara is finished; Munster had enough possession to win three matches but you have to have an out half who can create things and he offered nothing beyond pinging it into the corner.

So I don' know if it proved Kidney wrong, but it is certainly food for thought for the summer and November games.

ironingbored

ambid wrote: »

Ferris doesn't even appear to be in line to captain Ulster. Ireland have plenty of better options for the captaincy to succeed O'Driscoll in O'Connell, Best, Heaslip, and O'Mahony.

After Henry's display yesterday POM has a lot of work to do to be included in the Irish 22 for NZ.

Tuohy's display yesterday made an absolute mockery of DK's decision to start DOC during the 6N.

Tuohy's display yesterday was atypical of the level he's been playing at for over 18 months now. There was a reason some of us were clamouring to have him involved in the 6N 2011.

He's the only lock in Ireland I trust with ball in hand. He's a machine. I think that the ignorance shown to certain players will surely have to stop now.

As an aside, that's two games in a row that Paddy Wallace has been unbreachable for Ulster, a facet of his game that's regularly questioned and cited as a reason not to include him in Irish teams. He's also held his hand up and said he deserves the 12 spot again. D'Arcy's form in Green has dipped massively, and perhaps it might be time for us to stop kicking the ball as a national side, and have Sexton and Wallace as our creative outlets?

OldRio

As for the original OP.

No doubt the IRFU with the help of their friends in the media are already planning the spin to put on this weekends results. Plenty of mud to throw in the water.
Sad times for the Irish national team and even sadder for the Irish media.

GerM

Yesterday's result was bad for Irish rugby. Dan Tuohy showing that he's able to step up on the big occasion? Chris Henry dominating top class opponents? Craig Gilroy performing in the biggest game of his career? Paddy Wallace looking solid in defence and sharp with the ball in hand? Darren Cave putting in a massively intelligent shift in defence?

Good God. This is awful for Irish rugby, Hugh.

ambid

ironingbored wrote: »

After Henry's display yesterday POM has a lot of work to do to be included in the Irish 22 for NZ...

ormond lad wrote: »

I hope you are messing, long way to go before something like that can even be considered.
POM may have captained Munster on a few occasions but their isnt a hope of him being in line for what you are suggesting

I was thinking POM as a captaincy option only in the very long term, not this year or next.