Our National Team... the fuuu?!

Spacca

LOL!

Y'all crazy - wnwim agreements is essentially cheating in the 1st place!!!

everyone should move to HK.

seanand

Spacca wrote: »

LOL!

Y'all crazy - wnwim agreements is essentially cheating in the 1st place!!!

everyone should move to HK.

ya move to hk the country who throw matches in the world cup to get into a lower level. not cheating at all.

daheff

gotta say the whole thing leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Regardless of right or wrong, its gotten to be good ole fashioned bullying at this stage.

i used to have some interest in the NT, more in the U20s....not so sure i want to know about it anymore

FewFew

daheff wrote: »

gotta say the whole thing leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Regardless of right or wrong, its gotten to be good ole fashioned bullying at this stage.

i used to have some interest in the NT, more in the U20s....not so sure i want to know about it anymore

Yeah, I thought Mouseonfire's post on the front page was way out of line. Thankfully it seems he removed it, but yeah, nasty affair all round.

mar-z

daheff wrote: »

i used to have some interest in the NT, more in the U20s....not so sure i want to know about it anymore

As with you I had more interest in the U20 due to having a player in the last WC squad but I was also developing more of an interest in the NT.

While I have no NT interest currently due to this mess I think I will get back into it after the WC. Although my involvement will probably stay as pretty much just training although that is more due to time constraints.

Also I missed Mouse's journalist article but it is poor form that he used the position to get personal digs which it sounds like he did.

eoferrall

Fewcifur wrote: »

Yeah, I thought Mouseonfire's post on the front page was way out of line. Thankfully it seems he removed it, but yeah, nasty affair all round.

Yeah saw you standing up there Fewcifur and say that the article was out of line. I didn't see it myself, but I think everyone needs to take a step back and chill out.

I know lots of people have put considerable effort in, but it is not being wasted - it can be picked up and continued in 8/9 weeks.

Just all very nasty stuff as Daheff says, give GH a break - people have been at him since day one, he hasn't performed, he knows this himself and therfore is very much constantly on the defensive. The enviroment was not there to ask for help as the community weren't overly welcoming and also he bragged so much was probably too proud and it all snowballed.

mar-z

eoferrall wrote: »

Just all very nasty stuff as Daheff says, give GH a break - people have been at him since day one, he hasn't performed, he knows this himself and therfore is very much constantly on the defensive. The enviroment was not there to ask for help as the community weren't overly welcoming and also he bragged so much was probably too proud and it all snowballed.

Tbh I was very much willing to give him the benefit of the doubt up till the NZ game at the end of season tour. He asked for advise, got it from a number of people, seemed to agree with it, then went and did the opposite. His only given reasoning for doing this was that it is end of season and doesn't matter (but why ask if thats the case).

I just can't decide if it's pride in trying to show he knows better, just not caring (I can't believe that one as why would he run), or doing it to spite/wum his critics.

Honestly think he didn't know the time it took to do the jobe properly and he doesn't want to be seen to quit after so many elections trying to get there (and being very cocky about it)

FewFew

Could be a case that he can't play BR with the NT the way he would with his club. He may think himself an excellent manager in Club-land, but when faced with the much more tactics orientated NT setup, well, he may have found his strengths lie elsewhere.

Still, seems to be far too much personal abuse thrown against him, as Eof says, it'll be picked right up in a few weeks.

cclampett

fewi, my opinion of that piece was just a journo posting the news, now i'll admit that after PM's during the elections that i am passionate about hating GH, so i have blinkers, but i think the comments in here from ppl that havent read it suggests a bit of misleading.

i accept there must have been some bias in it, clearly mouse did as well and he removed it

but mouse has been sending me PM's about a lot of the stuff he has stepped up into since i got out, so i do know that he has invested a lot of time into it, not to sound like a b***h - but an emotional investment comes with the territory, rational ppl only get pissed off about issues they genuinly care about, and at this stage it sure as hell looks like BRI is running out of ppl that really care

eoferrall

cclampett wrote: »

fewi, my opinion of that piece was just a journo posting the news, now i'll admit that after PM's during the elections that i am passionate about hating GH, so i have blinkers, but i think the comments in here from ppl that havent read it suggests a bit of misleading.

i accept there must have been some bias in it, clearly mouse did as well and he removed it

but mouse has been sending me PM's about a lot of the stuff he has stepped up into since i got out, so i do know that he has invested a lot of time into it, not to sound like a b***h - but an emotional investment comes with the territory, rational ppl only get pissed off about issues they genuinly care about, and at this stage it sure as hell looks like BRI is running out of ppl that really care

Definitely is I think. Hoping there is a revival next season. I could never devote the time to being NT/U20 manager as firstly I am not good enough (only scout big matches for my team, and sometimes only then prospective lineups) and also don't have the RL time to be doing so, I've long since stopped playing monday friendlies as don't have time for 4 matches a week!

But I will gladly support the managers/train players etc as my role.

FewFew

cclampett wrote: »

fewi, my opinion of that piece was just a journo posting the news, now i'll admit that after PM's during the elections that i am passionate about hating GH, so i have blinkers, but i think the comments in here from ppl that havent read it suggests a bit of misleading.

i accept there must have been some bias in it, clearly mouse did as well and he removed it

but mouse has been sending me PM's about a lot of the stuff he has stepped up into since i got out, so i do know that he has invested a lot of time into it, not to sound like a b***h - but an emotional investment comes with the territory, rational ppl only get pissed off about issues they genuinly care about, and at this stage it sure as hell looks like BRI is running out of ppl that really care

But he wasn't posting the news. "The Irish National Team manager has been banned from the Irish off-site forum due to the alleged breach of a WNWIM agreement with the Scottish NT manager. Follow this link to have your say" would have been posting the news, but it was full of opinion and bias.
Ok, it's not a newspaper, but every Irish manager who logs on has to see that screen, and the majority, who don't take part in the off-site, are going to see it and assume Mouse is speaking with some voice of authority, rather than a guy using it as his personal platform to vent.

He might be emotionally invested, but that much bias has no more place in an article than a load of spelling mistakes.

One of the main roles of the journo is to encourage involvement with the community, and I'd say airing the dirty laundry in such a manager puts people off before they've even started.


In terms of the Irish BR community, it's a hard one to place. You had an old core led by the Dutch... they're now largely drifted into memory. Then you had a period in-between which seemed pretty stable, albeit without any great surge. More recently you had an upsurge of enthusiastic managers, where a few people did all the work, and now most of those people are pissed off and have left the country. I don't think that's completely a bad thing, it might allow for the build-up of a broader community base.

cclampett

Fewcifur wrote: »

He might be emotionally invested, but that much bias has no more place in an article than a load of spelling mistakes.

funny, i never got complaints on my completely biased articles that said little more than wex is great, fetch is great, the players are great, and our trainers are the best. also wing sucks

Fewcifur wrote: »

In terms of the Irish BR community, it's a hard one to place. You had an old core led by the Dutch... they're now largely drifted into memory. Then you had a period in-between which seemed pretty stable, albeit without any great surge. More recently you had an upsurge of enthusiastic managers, where a few people did all the work, and now most of those people are pissed off and have left the country. I don't think that's completely a bad thing, it might allow for the build-up of a broader community base.

i dont think so, the biggest problem imo has always been the lack of respect shown to newer managers, not by everyone, but there are some of the more established managers that like to imply they are better just for being around longer

FewFew

cclampett wrote: »

funny, i never got complaints on my completely biased articles that said little more than wex is great, fetch is great, the players are great, and our trainers are the best. also wing sucks

Probably cause I never read your completely biased articles

But it's one thing to be positive, you're essentially also the PRO for the Irish BR community, but a personal attack isn't on. It's common sense I would have thought.

Phonehead

I agree 100% that the article was a mistake by Mouse and it will cost him a shot at the NT role! On The entire BR Ireland scene, I just can't see people stepping up! I have said it consistently, BR Ireland has the most unmotivated community in terms of taking responsibility! That's fine and good but I can guarantee the community is in for a shock as one or 2 of the remaining community organizers are weighing up their options. Jesus we can't even get a Journalist to write an article a week most seasons do u can't see people stepping up to do JPs job

FewFew

Phonehead wrote: »

I agree 100% that the article was a mistake by Mouse and it will cost him a shot at the NT role! On The entire BR Ireland scene, I just can't see people stepping up! I have said it consistently, BR Ireland has the most unmotivated community in terms of taking responsibility! That's fine and good but I can guarantee the community is in for a shock as one or 2 of the remaining community organizers are weighing up their options. Jesus we can't even get a Journalist to write an article a week most seasons do u can't see people stepping up to do JPs job

Yeah, there's always been a certain amount of apathy. Not sure what other communities are like, but there's certainly the outward vibe that they've a good solid base working at things.

cclampett

well what i'm trying to say, is that he made a mistake, it was biased, fine, that is understandable, once pointed out to him, he removed it.

there's no need to start slamming him here for it

mar-z

Fewcifur wrote: »

Yeah, I thought Mouseonfire's post on the front page was way out of line. Thankfully it seems he removed it, but yeah, nasty affair all round.

mar-z wrote: »

Also I missed Mouse's journalist article but it is poor form that he used the position to get personal digs which it sounds like he did.

eoferrall wrote: »

Yeah saw you standing up there Fewcifur and say that the article was out of line. I didn't see it myself, but I think everyone needs to take a step back and chill out.

Fewcifur wrote: »

Still, seems to be far too much personal abuse thrown against him, as Eof says, it'll be picked right up in a few weeks.

cclampett wrote: »

well what i'm trying to say, is that he made a mistake, it was biased, fine, that is understandable, once pointed out to him, he removed it.

there's no need to start slamming him here for it

All the comments that relate to the article before you posted on the thread here are quoted above. The second fewcifur one is also more to do with on thread abuse than the article. Fewcifur than posted a slightly longer reply to your post. He was hardly being slammed here. I think everyone can see Mouse puts a lot of effort into the community and just got carried away. And I actually disagree with Phonehead when he says its cost him a shot at the NT.

I do agree with the sentiment that the Irish community is lacking in people stepping up to contribute. From a personal perspective for the first time in years I have the time to possibly help but I have no interest in dealing with Gh and I honestly don't think I could benefit Jp with tactical help. I have been thinking of getting involved in the UTP process though.

Phonehead

Fewcifur wrote: »

Yeah, there's always been a certain amount of apathy. Not sure what other communities are like, but there's certainly the outward vibe that they've a good solid base working at things.

I think countries like Canada, USA & Argentina there is a serious pride in the NT and the community. Unfortunately in Ireland everyone is willing to train an U20 because A) A 120K CSR player is good for your team and You can get good money if you sell.

I think many nations see it as a badge of honour to be involved in their community. Ireland really has ridden on the coat-tails of what the Dutch established and now it's all falling apart. I suppose the GH affair has been an outlet/boiling point for those of us who have spoon fed the community since the Dutch left. Honestly, it annoys me to see poor Mouse having to do everything especially with his leaving cert around the corner! (he knows what I want him to do) JP is losing the will to continue in the game, he just can't continue to play daddy to the community and then seeing all his hard work and effort with organising the youth go to waste with somebody like GH at the helm.

cclampett

Phonehead wrote: »

I think many nations see it as a badge of honour to be involved in their community.

that was the first thing that struck me when i went onto the Canadian OS, quite literally a badge of honour in many cases.

Phonehead

I Wonder could Canada win a WC, if they could get external trainers onboard I think it could be achievable

cclampett

I'd like to think it's on the Horizon. Pike needs some quality players around him to disguise his uselessness.

FewFew

cclampett wrote: »

well what i'm trying to say, is that he made a mistake, it was biased, fine, that is understandable, once pointed out to him, he removed it.

there's no need to start slamming him here for it

I think Mar-Z and his quoting argued the case better than my planned long-winded retort

I haven't been on the off-site much since, oh, I can't remember why I got fed-up, but it was about a season or two ago. There was a big influx and spike in activity around the time of Lir-Lad, Clampet, Wonderfulworld and Mouseonfire. That was what, two or three seasons ago? I haven't really heard any bleep from any recent newbies. Maybe they're there, but from a scan of the site, they haven't made their presence known. The community can't really go on about a lack of support when there's no new blood. I'm open for correction, but I haven't seen evidence of any of the new bloods (and there are new managers every week) making it to the off-site. Similarly, there's less of a flow into here, and while this isn't an official BR Ireland forum, it does rank much higher in search engines and has in the past received newbies before they've reached the offsite.

satory

Phonehead wrote: »

Unfortunately in Ireland everyone is willing to train an U20 because A) A 120K CSR player is good for your team and You can get good money if you sell.

You raise a very good point...

For me personally when I went into training a player for season 16, my first initial reason was that I needed a player >100K CSR, and the UTP gave me an outlet to do it, but also a way to track and set standards for my player.

Now my player hasn't made the standard for the current squad, and of course I am continually training him because of point A, but I reckon that is push came to shove(?) down the line I'd quite possibly throw him on the TM if I needed cash...

Phonehead wrote: »

Honestly, it annoys me to see poor Mouse having to do everything especially with his leaving cert around the corner! (he knows what I want him to do)

Another valid point...

In fact was it in this thread or the other one here, where we discussed Former Irish Based managers involvement in the Irish OS? I would of been in the category against their involvement, but when you actually look on the OS, only mouse and JP seem to be driving anything...

Im going to change my tune and say if former irish based managers want to have an involvement then I say let them, since most of the current irish based managers do not have an active involvement.

cclampett

Fewcifur wrote: »

There was a big influx and spike in activity around the time of Lir-Lad, Clampet, Wonderfulworld and Mouseonfire.

i was before mouse and wonder, so thats four over a period of a few seasons!

but i have another point to make, when there are newbs eager to get involved, they usually need a little help, positive feedback whatever, i felt i had to push my way in, so i went out of my way to make things easier for mouse and wonder, please dont read this as me blowing my own trumpet or ye'll miss the point, there's always a few eager newbs, you just gotta keep an eye out for them, help where ya can, give positive feedback on their efforts, and DO NOT insult them or put them down for making some rookie mistakes we all made ourselves, and DO NOT ALLOW anyone else to get away with it either - not saying a little bit of slagging isn't in order, just be sure the is used

FewFew

cclampett wrote: »

i was before mouse and wonder, so thats four over a period of a few seasons!

but i have another point to make, when there are newbs eager to get involved, they usually need a little help, positive feedback whatever, i felt i had to push my way in, so i went out of my way to make things easier for mouse and wonder, please dont read this as me blowing my own trumpet or ye'll miss the point, there's always a few eager newbs, you just gotta keep an eye out for them, help where ya can, give positive feedback on their efforts, and DO NOT insult them or put them down for making some rookie mistakes we all made ourselves, and DO NOT ALLOW anyone else to get away with it either - not saying a little bit of slagging isn't in order, just be sure the is used

You're right that new managers should be welcomed in, but it's the aul leading a horse to water thing.
In my last term as journalist, the primary goal was to get more people involved in the off-site and the community as a whole, in order to start filling the void left by the Dutch. We had willing mentors lined-up and I spent days sending personal messages to all of the new members over the course of few months, offering them the mentor service. I got literally zero replies. Maybe some of them made their way to the off-site or maybe some found help elsewhere, but direct help was overed and nobody was bothered signing up.

To be honest, when I think about it, I don't see this disrespect to new managers that you mentioned before. In general, I've found some atrocious teams out there and people just let them go on their way without a comment. I used to do mad sessions of cup previews, where I'd actually scout out 64 teams or so left in the cup. At the time I had a pretty solid knowledge about every team on the go and their obvious strengths and weaknesses. You'd be amazed at the amount of teams that have props around the 100kg mark or second rows not even break 200cm... but nobody gave them a hard time. I don't think a "you're such a n00b" culture existed back then, and I'd hope it doesn't exist now.

If you see any of the newbie threads on here, I'm positive that all the questions are answered in a straight forward manner, it's pretty obvious that we all had to learn this game at some point or another.

cclampett

Fewcifur wrote: »

You're right that new managers should be welcomed in, but it's the aul leading a horse to water thing.
In my last term as journalist, the primary goal was to get more people involved in the off-site and the community as a whole, in order to start filling the void left by the Dutch. We had willing mentors lined-up and I spent days sending personal messages to all of the new members over the course of few months, offering them the mentor service. I got literally zero replies. Maybe some of them made their way to the off-site or maybe some found help elsewhere, but direct help was overed and nobody was bothered signing up.

To be honest, when I think about it, I don't see this disrespect to new managers that you mentioned before. In general, I've found some atrocious teams out there and people just let them go on their way without a comment. I used to do mad sessions of cup previews, where I'd actually scout out 64 teams or so left in the cup. At the time I had a pretty solid knowledge about every team on the go and their obvious strengths and weaknesses. You'd be amazed at the amount of teams that have props around the 100kg mark or second rows not even break 200cm... but nobody gave them a hard time. I don't think a "you're such a n00b" culture existed back then, and I'd hope it doesn't exist now.

If you see any of the newbie threads on here, I'm positive that all the questions are answered in a straight forward manner, it's pretty obvious that we all had to learn this game at some point or another.

yeah, the last round of mentoring failed miserably as well, the lads are are giving it another go now. seeing my league get a mention on the BR zine was great, but then it was equally dissapointing not to see it updated after i joined to see my own team in print, fair play for doing it though.
getting results with messages on masse is a tough thing, it needs to be much more personalised, (you can probably remember how easy it was to rope wonder in once he posted in the league lounge)
cant really give specific examples of disrespect to newbs, but i've seen plenty, and had my own share, i'm sure i would have made dumb suggestions to both keogh and JP, and luckily they were just polite about it and left it at a thanks for the input, which more than made up for any negative comments elsewhere

FewFew

Hah, I wouldn't get me started on all things journo. I'll hand one thing to Mouse, he certainly has plenty of people chipping in, all I ever seemed to generate was big words and unfulfilled commitments.

mar-z

cclampett wrote: »

cant really give specific examples of disrespect to newbs, but i've seen plenty, and had my own share

Honest question, was the disrespect you've seen here, the offsite, the clubrooms or in the community in general? I haven't noticed it really myself (but then again I haven't for example volunteered tactics that often).

I could easily miss disrespect on the offsite or clubrooms as I spend much less time on the offsite and basically zero time in the clubrooms but would argue against it being shown here.

cclampett

mar-z wrote: »

Honest question, was the disrespect you've seen here, the offsite, the clubrooms or in the community in general? I haven't noticed it really myself (but then again I haven't for example volunteered tactics that often).

I could easily miss disrespect on the offsite or clubrooms as I spend much less time on the offsite and basically zero time in the clubrooms but would argue against it being shown here.

offsite
yeah, have to say i've seen none of it around here

eoferrall

clampett, do you know why JP resigned? is it continued fallout from the GH issues community is having?