Our National Team... the fuuu?!

FewFew

My god.

I haven't gone near the offsite in an age, but... how the hell did Greyhound get the National Manager job!?!

Did someone go "well, he applies for it every year, let's give it to him sure."

I'm baffled.

Only noticed it due to an U20s election thread. Wow. Had to check to make sure. Wow.

Also, this makes sense why we keep seeming to lose. I don't normally pay any attention to non-club level antics, but I did catch a glimpse of far too many fails. Oh my.

corny

Didn't realise there was so much fun being had in the senior team forum! I generally just follow the U-20's progress but the seniors have dropped to 11th in the world with this fella in charge. We used to be a force at senior level didn't we?

FewFew

corny wrote: »

Didn't realise there was so much fun being had in the senior team forum! I generally just follow the U-20's progress but the seniors have dropped to 11th in the world with this fella in charge. We used to be a force at senior level didn't we?

That's what made me pay attention. Apparently we've dropped from 2nd in the world to 11th!

johnnysmack

once he's gone im sure we'll get right back up to the top of the mountain again. We have a really strong young squad coming through.

in the mean time break out the popcorn and enjoy the drama!

seanand

johnnysmack wrote: »

once he's gone im sure we'll get right back up to the top of the mountain again. We have a really strong young squad coming through.

in the mean time break out the popcorn and enjoy the drama!

thats if they dont get pissed off and stop training like. i know jp has stopped training oxbig or he had for awhile so if the most dedicated manager in ireland cant be persuaded who can?

johnnysmack

seanand wrote: »

thats if they dont get pissed off and stop training like. i know jp has stopped training oxbig or he had for awhile so if the most dedicated manager in ireland cant be persuaded who can?

Eh...me, for one. And its not a matter of persuasion, just start thinking long term. You could have a player in the NT for 8-10 seasons, GH is only gonna be there for another one.

JP stopped training because Oxbig was dropped for no reason and didn't even get a mail explaining why out of courtesy so stopping the training was understandable.

Gelio

Bit of a mess, but hopefully a lesson learned. Don't vote for a twat!

FewFew

Who did vote for him? I mean, every year he comes along and runs a very offensive campaign, and he doesn't interact with the off-site, so it's not a case of popularity.

I don't really get stopping training of an NT player. Surely it's still in the clubs interest to have an amazing player?

seanand

Fewcifur wrote: »

Who did vote for him? I mean, every year he comes along and runs a very offensive campaign, and he doesn't interact with the off-site, so it's not a case of popularity.

I don't really get stopping training of an NT player. Surely it's still in the clubs interest to have an amazing player?

i didnt anyway id say most of his votes didnt come from the community and div1 manager won it for him.

most clubs are happy with 120kcsr guys why have one 300k guy or 2 150k?

also to answer you johonny jps guy wasnt the only guy to get dropped for worse players

eoferrall

Hadn't realised it was going so pete thong. knew he was manager but busy these days so barely log into the offsite so lost track of results.

Wow - he must feel a dope for all his smack talk over the campaigns!!

FewFew

seanand wrote: »

i didnt anyway id say most of his votes didnt come from the community and div1 manager won it for him.

most clubs are happy with 120kcsr guys why have one 300k guy or 2 150k?

also to answer you johonny jps guy wasnt the only guy to get dropped for worse players

Cause the 300k guy is a terrifying beast that wins matches all on his own, like Jonah Lomu :pac:

eoferrall wrote: »

Hadn't realised it was going so pete thong. knew he was manager but busy these days so barely log into the offsite so lost track of results.

Wow - he must feel a dope for all his smack talk over the campaigns!!

Yeah, on his page there's a guestbook message from one of the guys who runs the site, basically telling him there is no way to quit the NT job mid-campaign and to deal with the issues within the community! HAH!

FewFew

Just looking at the records there, Greyhound beat CClampett by 2 votes. Loads of one vote nonsense going around, a few 3 votes. Seems everyone had their hat in last time.

johnnysmack

seanand wrote: »

also to answer you johonny

i didnt ask a question

satory

Fewcifur wrote: »

Who did vote for him?

I'll admit that I voted for him...

Looking back I thought that he would have a better chance than Clampett, as he was longer in the game...

FewFew

Hah, I wonder did I vote for him, as a pisstake loike. Oh god.

Phonehead

It's a complete joke to be honest, he just hasn't a clue when it comes to tactics and scouting!!!

FewFew

Phonehead wrote: »

It's a complete joke to be honest, he just hasn't a clue when it comes to tactics and scouting!!!

How is he a div 1 manager if he doesn't have those skills though?

I can see how people without a clue voted for him, based on his "my team is better than your team" argument.

seanand

johnnysmack wrote: »

i didnt ask a question

i didnt say you did but i answered your statement

Phonehead

Fewcifur wrote: »

How is he a div 1 manager if he doesn't have those skills though?

I can see how people without a clue voted for him, based on his "my team is better than your team" argument.

It doesn't take much to get to division 1 by doing what he does, buy 30+ age players for 500k or 600k at a pop and then sell and buy next season. He has no Coaches/no facilities, nothing that costs money. His method gets you a team of 100-130k CSR palyers but over time most teams who buy and build young will pass him out.. it's kind of like running a marathon, he has emptied the tank by half way where most other teams will eventually easily pass by him as he can never afford to buy the players to match what we are developing.

FewFew

Phonehead wrote: »

It doesn't take much to get to division 1 by doing what he does, buy 30+ age players for 500k or 600k at a pop and then sell and buy next season. He has no Coaches/no facilities, nothing that costs money. His method gets you a team of 100-130k CSR palyers but over time most teams who buy and build young will pass him out.. it's kind of like running a marathon, he has emptied the tank by half way where most other teams will eventually easily pass by him as he can never afford to buy the players to match what we are developing.

My god! That's a genius strategy! Finally I've found a way to beat Mauling Bear!

Gelio

Fewcifur wrote: »

My god! That's a genius strategy! Finally I've found a way to beat Mauling Bear!

but so unfulfilling, how could you do it? Your team has no personality. Its just real madrid. It couldn't work long term

FewFew

ajeffares wrote: »

but so unfulfilling, how could you do it? Your team has no personality. Its just real madrid. It couldn't work long term

Yeah, but you get to crap talk with the rest of the managers, saying how you're the greatest. Ah no, I'm content truckin' away in Div 3, trying to take my chances with my plucky team. Never bought a player over 20k, don't think I'm gonna start.

... of course I just sold a few lads, so, tempted to get one 36 year old beast!

cclampett

satory wrote: »

I'll admit that I voted for him...

Looking back I thought that he would have a better chance than Clampett, as he was longer in the game...

hadn't been on here in ages so just reading this now, but yeah, seems that was the problem, by playing longer he could claim experience.
reality was that he had zero experience when it came to the NT's
i was kinda assuming people realised that 2 seasons of NT experience and closely following the u20's for a few seasons was worth more than a couple of seasons of just club experience, and that by being involved in more games per week a manager can gain two or three times the experience per season that another manager will gain.
have to say, i'm beginning to enjoy just sticking to the club side of things

eoferrall

cclampett wrote: »

hadn't been on here in ages so just reading this now, but yeah, seems that was the problem, by playing longer he could claim experience.
reality was that he had zero experience when it came to the NT's
i was kinda assuming people realised that 2 seasons of NT experience and closely following the u20's for a few seasons was worth more than a couple of seasons of just club experience, and that by being involved in more games per week a manager can gain two or three times the experience per season that another manager will gain.
have to say, i'm beginning to enjoy just sticking to the club side of things

Are you going to run next time round?

I think this fiasco has shown that people should not base it on club experience. should be based on knowledge of the game demonstrated in the club lounge as was previously the case until GH broke people down and he eventually got a shot and now has singlehandedly ruinned the irish NT for his tenure.

crisco10

Ha, its only gotten worse tonight. Appears he breached a WNWIM agreement with Scotland coach...

http://br-ireland.forumakers.com/t2997p30-ireland-v-scotland

http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/global.clubrooms.php#conversation=42598&z=6347

corny

crisco10 wrote: »

Ha, its only gotten worse tonight. Appears he breached a WNWIM agreement with Scotland coach...

http://br-ireland.forumakers.com/t2997p30-ireland-v-scotland

http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/global.clubrooms.php#conversation=42598&z=6347

Seems to me all involved are taking this game far too seriously. "treachorous in the extreme" is how it was described!

cclampett

eoferrall wrote: »

Are you going to run next time round?

I think this fiasco has shown that people should not base it on club experience. should be based on knowledge of the game demonstrated in the club lounge as was previously the case until GH broke people down and he eventually got a shot and now has singlehandedly ruinned the irish NT for his tenure.

if i was running again it would be in Canada, though the grapevine says mouse is inerested in the ireland job

club experience in itself is fine even, as long as there's been some previous interest in following the NT and some sign of actively seeking out advice on anything in the past that would show a candidate is willing to learn what's needed
experience comes down to total games, say if you have been sharing advice with a mate and following their games as well, then that adds up to extra game exp. following the NT is prob worth a tad more imo, as i know if id got the job when GH did i had a massive start on knowing the opposition teams and the irish team, havent been brave enough to follow any nt scene since so i dont have a clue now
id also have an inclination towards voting for someone that doesnt leave yellow marks in the questions lounge or suggestions lounge - it's a massive help to be educated on and prepared for game changes

and one big thing - i only ran that time when i started comparing GH's CSR levels to his match stars - shows how well the skill distribution is
and comparing match star ratings to results - shows how competant the manager generally is with tactics

crisco10

corny wrote: »

crisco10 wrote: »

Ha, its only gotten worse tonight. Appears he breached a WNWIM agreement with Scotland coach...

http://br-ireland.forumakers.com/t2997p30-ireland-v-scotland

http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/global.clubrooms.php#conversation=42598&z=6347

Seems to me all involved are taking this game far too seriously. "treachorous in the extreme" is how it was described!

There is a bit of that. I think people just don't like gh and are taking the opportunity to jump on his back.

seanand

crisco10 wrote: »

There is a bit of that. I think people just don't like gh and are taking the opportunity to jump on his back.

took the first chance i got and id do it again

FewFew

Breaking an intensity agreement is pretty poor though. I know I'd be out for blood if someone did it around here

Phonehead

crisco10 wrote: »

There is a bit of that. I think people just don't like gh and are taking the opportunity to jump on his back.

Well there is a reason why many of the older managers dislike him, one reason could be due to how he conducted himself when the Dutch were in town. I think at one stage he wanted apartheid, claiming the Dutch had no right to vote or run for office. It may always have been the WNWIM agreements he broke in the past!

Spacca

LOL!

Y'all crazy - wnwim agreements is essentially cheating in the 1st place!!!

everyone should move to HK.

seanand

Spacca wrote: »

LOL!

Y'all crazy - wnwim agreements is essentially cheating in the 1st place!!!

everyone should move to HK.

ya move to hk the country who throw matches in the world cup to get into a lower level. not cheating at all.

daheff

gotta say the whole thing leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Regardless of right or wrong, its gotten to be good ole fashioned bullying at this stage.

i used to have some interest in the NT, more in the U20s....not so sure i want to know about it anymore

FewFew

daheff wrote: »

gotta say the whole thing leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Regardless of right or wrong, its gotten to be good ole fashioned bullying at this stage.

i used to have some interest in the NT, more in the U20s....not so sure i want to know about it anymore

Yeah, I thought Mouseonfire's post on the front page was way out of line. Thankfully it seems he removed it, but yeah, nasty affair all round.

mar-z

daheff wrote: »

i used to have some interest in the NT, more in the U20s....not so sure i want to know about it anymore

As with you I had more interest in the U20 due to having a player in the last WC squad but I was also developing more of an interest in the NT.

While I have no NT interest currently due to this mess I think I will get back into it after the WC. Although my involvement will probably stay as pretty much just training although that is more due to time constraints.

Also I missed Mouse's journalist article but it is poor form that he used the position to get personal digs which it sounds like he did.

eoferrall

Fewcifur wrote: »

Yeah, I thought Mouseonfire's post on the front page was way out of line. Thankfully it seems he removed it, but yeah, nasty affair all round.

Yeah saw you standing up there Fewcifur and say that the article was out of line. I didn't see it myself, but I think everyone needs to take a step back and chill out.

I know lots of people have put considerable effort in, but it is not being wasted - it can be picked up and continued in 8/9 weeks.

Just all very nasty stuff as Daheff says, give GH a break - people have been at him since day one, he hasn't performed, he knows this himself and therfore is very much constantly on the defensive. The enviroment was not there to ask for help as the community weren't overly welcoming and also he bragged so much was probably too proud and it all snowballed.

mar-z

eoferrall wrote: »

Just all very nasty stuff as Daheff says, give GH a break - people have been at him since day one, he hasn't performed, he knows this himself and therfore is very much constantly on the defensive. The enviroment was not there to ask for help as the community weren't overly welcoming and also he bragged so much was probably too proud and it all snowballed.

Tbh I was very much willing to give him the benefit of the doubt up till the NZ game at the end of season tour. He asked for advise, got it from a number of people, seemed to agree with it, then went and did the opposite. His only given reasoning for doing this was that it is end of season and doesn't matter (but why ask if thats the case).

I just can't decide if it's pride in trying to show he knows better, just not caring (I can't believe that one as why would he run), or doing it to spite/wum his critics.

Honestly think he didn't know the time it took to do the jobe properly and he doesn't want to be seen to quit after so many elections trying to get there (and being very cocky about it)

FewFew

Could be a case that he can't play BR with the NT the way he would with his club. He may think himself an excellent manager in Club-land, but when faced with the much more tactics orientated NT setup, well, he may have found his strengths lie elsewhere.

Still, seems to be far too much personal abuse thrown against him, as Eof says, it'll be picked right up in a few weeks.

cclampett

fewi, my opinion of that piece was just a journo posting the news, now i'll admit that after PM's during the elections that i am passionate about hating GH, so i have blinkers, but i think the comments in here from ppl that havent read it suggests a bit of misleading.

i accept there must have been some bias in it, clearly mouse did as well and he removed it

but mouse has been sending me PM's about a lot of the stuff he has stepped up into since i got out, so i do know that he has invested a lot of time into it, not to sound like a b***h - but an emotional investment comes with the territory, rational ppl only get pissed off about issues they genuinly care about, and at this stage it sure as hell looks like BRI is running out of ppl that really care

eoferrall

cclampett wrote: »

fewi, my opinion of that piece was just a journo posting the news, now i'll admit that after PM's during the elections that i am passionate about hating GH, so i have blinkers, but i think the comments in here from ppl that havent read it suggests a bit of misleading.

i accept there must have been some bias in it, clearly mouse did as well and he removed it

but mouse has been sending me PM's about a lot of the stuff he has stepped up into since i got out, so i do know that he has invested a lot of time into it, not to sound like a b***h - but an emotional investment comes with the territory, rational ppl only get pissed off about issues they genuinly care about, and at this stage it sure as hell looks like BRI is running out of ppl that really care

Definitely is I think. Hoping there is a revival next season. I could never devote the time to being NT/U20 manager as firstly I am not good enough (only scout big matches for my team, and sometimes only then prospective lineups) and also don't have the RL time to be doing so, I've long since stopped playing monday friendlies as don't have time for 4 matches a week!

But I will gladly support the managers/train players etc as my role.

FewFew

cclampett wrote: »

fewi, my opinion of that piece was just a journo posting the news, now i'll admit that after PM's during the elections that i am passionate about hating GH, so i have blinkers, but i think the comments in here from ppl that havent read it suggests a bit of misleading.

i accept there must have been some bias in it, clearly mouse did as well and he removed it

but mouse has been sending me PM's about a lot of the stuff he has stepped up into since i got out, so i do know that he has invested a lot of time into it, not to sound like a b***h - but an emotional investment comes with the territory, rational ppl only get pissed off about issues they genuinly care about, and at this stage it sure as hell looks like BRI is running out of ppl that really care

But he wasn't posting the news. "The Irish National Team manager has been banned from the Irish off-site forum due to the alleged breach of a WNWIM agreement with the Scottish NT manager. Follow this link to have your say" would have been posting the news, but it was full of opinion and bias.
Ok, it's not a newspaper, but every Irish manager who logs on has to see that screen, and the majority, who don't take part in the off-site, are going to see it and assume Mouse is speaking with some voice of authority, rather than a guy using it as his personal platform to vent.

He might be emotionally invested, but that much bias has no more place in an article than a load of spelling mistakes.

One of the main roles of the journo is to encourage involvement with the community, and I'd say airing the dirty laundry in such a manager puts people off before they've even started.


In terms of the Irish BR community, it's a hard one to place. You had an old core led by the Dutch... they're now largely drifted into memory. Then you had a period in-between which seemed pretty stable, albeit without any great surge. More recently you had an upsurge of enthusiastic managers, where a few people did all the work, and now most of those people are pissed off and have left the country. I don't think that's completely a bad thing, it might allow for the build-up of a broader community base.

cclampett

Fewcifur wrote: »

He might be emotionally invested, but that much bias has no more place in an article than a load of spelling mistakes.

funny, i never got complaints on my completely biased articles that said little more than wex is great, fetch is great, the players are great, and our trainers are the best. also wing sucks

Fewcifur wrote: »

In terms of the Irish BR community, it's a hard one to place. You had an old core led by the Dutch... they're now largely drifted into memory. Then you had a period in-between which seemed pretty stable, albeit without any great surge. More recently you had an upsurge of enthusiastic managers, where a few people did all the work, and now most of those people are pissed off and have left the country. I don't think that's completely a bad thing, it might allow for the build-up of a broader community base.

i dont think so, the biggest problem imo has always been the lack of respect shown to newer managers, not by everyone, but there are some of the more established managers that like to imply they are better just for being around longer

FewFew

cclampett wrote: »

funny, i never got complaints on my completely biased articles that said little more than wex is great, fetch is great, the players are great, and our trainers are the best. also wing sucks

Probably cause I never read your completely biased articles

But it's one thing to be positive, you're essentially also the PRO for the Irish BR community, but a personal attack isn't on. It's common sense I would have thought.

Phonehead

I agree 100% that the article was a mistake by Mouse and it will cost him a shot at the NT role! On The entire BR Ireland scene, I just can't see people stepping up! I have said it consistently, BR Ireland has the most unmotivated community in terms of taking responsibility! That's fine and good but I can guarantee the community is in for a shock as one or 2 of the remaining community organizers are weighing up their options. Jesus we can't even get a Journalist to write an article a week most seasons do u can't see people stepping up to do JPs job

FewFew

Phonehead wrote: »

I agree 100% that the article was a mistake by Mouse and it will cost him a shot at the NT role! On The entire BR Ireland scene, I just can't see people stepping up! I have said it consistently, BR Ireland has the most unmotivated community in terms of taking responsibility! That's fine and good but I can guarantee the community is in for a shock as one or 2 of the remaining community organizers are weighing up their options. Jesus we can't even get a Journalist to write an article a week most seasons do u can't see people stepping up to do JPs job

Yeah, there's always been a certain amount of apathy. Not sure what other communities are like, but there's certainly the outward vibe that they've a good solid base working at things.

cclampett

well what i'm trying to say, is that he made a mistake, it was biased, fine, that is understandable, once pointed out to him, he removed it.

there's no need to start slamming him here for it

mar-z

Fewcifur wrote: »

Yeah, I thought Mouseonfire's post on the front page was way out of line. Thankfully it seems he removed it, but yeah, nasty affair all round.

mar-z wrote: »

Also I missed Mouse's journalist article but it is poor form that he used the position to get personal digs which it sounds like he did.

eoferrall wrote: »

Yeah saw you standing up there Fewcifur and say that the article was out of line. I didn't see it myself, but I think everyone needs to take a step back and chill out.

Fewcifur wrote: »

Still, seems to be far too much personal abuse thrown against him, as Eof says, it'll be picked right up in a few weeks.

cclampett wrote: »

well what i'm trying to say, is that he made a mistake, it was biased, fine, that is understandable, once pointed out to him, he removed it.

there's no need to start slamming him here for it

All the comments that relate to the article before you posted on the thread here are quoted above. The second fewcifur one is also more to do with on thread abuse than the article. Fewcifur than posted a slightly longer reply to your post. He was hardly being slammed here. I think everyone can see Mouse puts a lot of effort into the community and just got carried away. And I actually disagree with Phonehead when he says its cost him a shot at the NT.

I do agree with the sentiment that the Irish community is lacking in people stepping up to contribute. From a personal perspective for the first time in years I have the time to possibly help but I have no interest in dealing with Gh and I honestly don't think I could benefit Jp with tactical help. I have been thinking of getting involved in the UTP process though.

Phonehead

Fewcifur wrote: »

Yeah, there's always been a certain amount of apathy. Not sure what other communities are like, but there's certainly the outward vibe that they've a good solid base working at things.

I think countries like Canada, USA & Argentina there is a serious pride in the NT and the community. Unfortunately in Ireland everyone is willing to train an U20 because A) A 120K CSR player is good for your team and You can get good money if you sell.

I think many nations see it as a badge of honour to be involved in their community. Ireland really has ridden on the coat-tails of what the Dutch established and now it's all falling apart. I suppose the GH affair has been an outlet/boiling point for those of us who have spoon fed the community since the Dutch left. Honestly, it annoys me to see poor Mouse having to do everything especially with his leaving cert around the corner! (he knows what I want him to do) JP is losing the will to continue in the game, he just can't continue to play daddy to the community and then seeing all his hard work and effort with organising the youth go to waste with somebody like GH at the helm.

cclampett

Phonehead wrote: »

I think many nations see it as a badge of honour to be involved in their community.

that was the first thing that struck me when i went onto the Canadian OS, quite literally a badge of honour in many cases.

Phonehead

I Wonder could Canada win a WC, if they could get external trainers onboard I think it could be achievable