Rugby to the NFL

matthew8

Podge_irl wrote: »

Kearney is far too slow to be a WR.

I'm not sure how many kickers could actually completely change their routine to play NFL. They have to run up far quicker generally straighter and with more pressure. On the other hand the kicks themselves are generally easier. You'd need someone with a fairly hefty boot like Steyn or Halfpenny and they'd take a lot of time to get used to it I imagine.

Kearney could be the league's best special teamer. If a team needed to get the ball back from a kickoff near the end of the game, they could use Rob Kearney to catch a high kick. I also think many teams could learn from Leinster's switch on the kickoffs that they frequently use. I've only ever seen it done once and it worked. I think Kearney could be a good safety or returner.

davegrohl48

I'v watched alot of NFL and I know it's with pads, but Jason Robinson is one of the fastest players I'v ever seen over 30 yards in NFL, Soccer, Rugby.
Also his ability to change direction and his suprising power in contact.
He wouldn't be as ridiculously strong and evasive as a Barry Sanders but then Barry Sanders is often rated as one of the best of all time.
Think of how rare it was to see Robinson not break the gainline when in posession. Also he generally gained extra ground after being hit by the tackler with his powerful, quick legs getting extra little strides in after contact. In open space I can't recall anyone hauling him back in over first 30.

Agree with poster, Pierre Spies has the physical ability to play a few positions. He has a huge leap and great upper body strength.

davegrohl48

Kearney is not far too slow for wide receiver. There are some wide receivers who would leave him standing and then there are others Kearney would leave standing. It's the nature of the position. Many of the tall wide receivers six foot five+ are not that quick off the mark. At wide receiver it's your hands that are valued more than your 40 time.

tolosenc

Fez would definitely have been a line-backer.

Also, the rules on when you are tackled would prevent the likes of SOB being an effective running back. If all a rugby player had to do was have his knee touch the ground, rather than grab him, drag him down, and hold on to him, he'd be much easier stopped.

nerd69

jonah lomu nearly joined the cowboys as a rb at one stage

Neil3030

Kearney is not far too slow for wide receiver. There are some wide receivers who would leave him standing and then there are others Kearney would leave standing. It's the nature of the position. Many of the tall wide receivers six foot five+ are not that quick off the mark. At wide receiver it's your hands that are valued more than your 40 time.

I take your point that speed isn't everything and with his hands and leap he could be an option in the red zone; but probably not much elsewhere. Even the deep-threats who are considered "slow", would still clock a 4.60-4.70 in the 40m, which extrapolates to around 11s for the 100m, which is Denis Hickie territory. Kearney would lack that explosive burst of pace to get separation from most defensive backs. Sure you could toss it up and let him compete, but it's not a fair contest to catch the ball (as it is in rugby) as the DBs can just swat the ball away without fear of punishment for knocking it on, etc.

nerd69 wrote: »

only if they have been taking a pounding since young ferris has taken less big hits so he could last a few years after easily

Ferris has taken a pounding though. As much as I want to believe otherwise, I'b be amazed to see him playing rugby beyond the age of 30.

matthew8 wrote: »

I think they could play FB, tackle, tight end, defensive end or linebacker.

TACKLE?! Have they suddenly grown to 6"6 and 22+ stone?!

matthew8

Neil3030 wrote: »

TACKLE?! Have they suddenly grown to 6"6 and 22+ stone?!

Sure they'd need to put a bit of weight on but they've got some of the skills.

JustinDee

Learn Spanish and become a kicker.

GerM

Fair enough, I don't think ROG would be much of an option at that level still. There's a serious emphasis placed on distance which he doesn't have any longer. The ball being kicked off the deck and placed vertically from a moving snap as opposed to from a tee and tilted forward for additional distance makes it a different proposition and would require a massive amount of practice to adjust to. He would be alright for short field goals but anything in the longer reaches, where an NFL player earns his cash, would be a struggle in my opinion. He would certainly be a field goal only player and punting wouldn't be an option for him. If it was a basic enough ability to go from one discipline to another, we would see a lot of players trying to secure NFL contracts for a season or two where the average contract is the guts of $1m a season for a kicker and top kickers make double that.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

Kearney is not far too slow for wide receiver. There are some wide receivers who would leave him standing and then there are others Kearney would leave standing. It's the nature of the position. Many of the tall wide receivers six foot five+ are not that quick off the mark. At wide receiver it's your hands that are valued more than your 40 time.

I take your point that speed isn't everything and with his hands and leap he could be an option in the red zone; but probably not much elsewhere. Even the deep-threats who are considered "slow", would still clock a 4.60-4.70 in the 40m, which extrapolates to around 11s for the 100m, which is Denis Hickie territory. Kearney would lack that explosive burst of pace to get separation from most defensive backs. Sure you could toss it up and let him compete, but it's not a fair contest to catch the ball (as it is in rugby) as the DBs can just swat the ball away without fear of punishment for knocking it on, etc.

nerd69 wrote: »

only if they have been taking a pounding since young ferris has taken less big hits so he could last a few years after easily

Ferris has taken a pounding though. As much as I want to believe otherwise, I'b be amazed to see him playing rugby beyond the age of 30.

matthew8 wrote: »

I think they could play FB, tackle, tight end, defensive end or linebacker.

TACKLE?! Have they suddenly grown to 6"6 and 22+ stone?!

Ferris, for example, could carry that weight easilly. There are a few guys who move from Tight End to tackle in college and have to put on the weight. I remember there was a guy drafted a while ago who had put on something like 90 pounds to do it. That was an extreme example but it shows its possible. Ferris would only have to add a fraction of that. He'd have the mentality to be a great offensive tackle. He would possibly be even better suited to center, as you'd imagine he'd have far better hands than the average American, although its a very tactical position.

People often get a bit overawed by the size and power of these guys in the NFL but you forget that their bodies have to be far less sustainable. Shorter periods of play, shorter seasons, shorter careers, shorter lifespans. Stick a guy like Ferris into that mentality and you'd get much more out of him.

DeDoc

totallegend wrote: »

Sports Illustrated, February 2014

O'Gara: 'I should be starting ahead of Brady'

.............

I read what you posted and had to do a double take, as I was sure I 'read' what I posted above. :pac::pac:

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ferris, for example, could carry that weight easilly. There are a few guys who move from Tight End to tackle in college and have to put on the weight. I remember there was a guy drafted a while ago who had put on something like 90 pounds to do it. That was an extreme example but it shows its possible. Ferris would only have to add a fraction of that. He'd have the mentality to be a great offensive tackle. He would possibly be even better suited to center, as you'd imagine he'd have far better hands than the average American, although its a very tactical position.

People often get a bit overawed by the size and power of these guys in the NFL but you forget that their bodies have to be far less sustainable. Shorter periods of play, shorter seasons, shorter careers, shorter lifespans. Stick a guy like Ferris into that mentality and you'd get much more out of him.

Not a hope. Even forgetting the extra 30+kg he'd need to add to an already sizeable build (keep in mind that fractions are relative, and that kid you cited probably bulked up from a smaller starting point) there is simply no way he would learn the nuances of a position which is probably the most technical behind that of quarterback. Hey, I love the guy, probably a bit too much for it to be considered healthy, but it just wouldn't happen.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ferris, for example, could carry that weight easilly. There are a few guys who move from Tight End to tackle in college and have to put on the weight. I remember there was a guy drafted a while ago who had put on something like 90 pounds to do it. That was an extreme example but it shows its possible. Ferris would only have to add a fraction of that. He'd have the mentality to be a great offensive tackle. He would possibly be even better suited to center, as you'd imagine he'd have far better hands than the average American, although its a very tactical position.

People often get a bit overawed by the size and power of these guys in the NFL but you forget that their bodies have to be far less sustainable. Shorter periods of play, shorter seasons, shorter careers, shorter lifespans. Stick a guy like Ferris into that mentality and you'd get much more out of him.

Not a hope. Even forgetting the extra 30+kg he'd need to add to an already sizeable build (keep in mind that fractions are relative, and that kid you cited probably bulked up from a smaller starting point) there is simply no way he would learn the nuances of a position which is probably the most technical behind that of quarterback. Hey, I love the guy, probably a bit too much for it to be considered healthy, but it just wouldn't happen.

He wouldn't need 30+kg, just 20, he's nearly 19 stone already

Obviously its never going to happen because of the technical side of things. The point is that if he was an American footballer he would do very well.

Hes probably far too fast to be wasted on the line anyway, I'd say Tight End is where he'd play.

Brian O'Driscoll could make a superb safety imo. Cian Healy a full back. There are plenty of candidates around to speculate about.

lologram

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Brian O'Driscoll could make a superb safety imo

A good bit too short I'd say

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He wouldn't need 30+kg, just 20, he's nearly 19 stone already

Obviously its never going to happen because of the technical side of things. The point is that if he was an American footballer he would do very well.

Hes probably far too fast to be wasted on the line anyway, I'd say Tight End is where he'd play.

Brian O'Driscoll could make a superb safety imo. Cian Healy a full back. There are plenty of candidates around to speculate about.

18st3lbs according to Wiki, and 17st8 on Ulster's site. I'd have him at line-backer. He'd be immense. But contingent on him growing up playing the game, obviously.

davegrohl48

Ferris is already bulked up as it is. He would struggle to put on another stone. After another two stone he'd lose all agility.
You need to be born with ridiculously strong hips and legs. When you see the defensive line waking around between plays they really do look like contestants from World Strongman. Some of them are only small percentages weaker than strongmen on events like bench/squat etc.

The AFL is getting a few guys in as punter as they have such long careers purely punting the ball in their own game. Also the Aussie style kick is meant to aid accuracy. First AFL guy who punted was a big success. Darren Bennet.
Didn't realize kickers were on 1 - 2 million dollars. I'd imagine many much lower paid at lower profile teams.

Colonialboy

I think O'Driscoll and Ferris would be too slow. Those NFL guys are fast, even the big guys, explosive off the blocks. But it would be interesting to see how they do.
I think an NFL guy would find it easier to transition to rugby, I was always surprised more of them havent come over.

davegrohl48

I think you could have some immense props and locks and no. 8s from American Football. Maybe not so useful in general play. But devastating in the scrum. Usable in plays where you are near the opposition tryline and just need a crash ball guy to make 4 yards.
Also some of the running backs/wide receivers have the stamina to be effective backs. They'd need some more conditioning work for endurance but rugby has it's rest periods too for the backs when there are scums/lineouts/penalties. Adrian Peterson would be a great centre.
Any amount of powerful guys would be good driving off base of the scrum as a no. 8.
Drew Brees has the accuracy to be a great 9/10 if he was in rugby from young age. There was an interesting video on youtube showing him hitting a target 10 times from 10 throws from 20 yards. One o those arrow targets you see, he hit the centre spot each time.

Neil3030

Colonialboy wrote: »

I think O'Driscoll and Ferris would be too slow. Those NFL guys are fast, even the big guys, explosive off the blocks. But it would be interesting to see how they do.
I think an NFL guy would find it easier to transition to rugby, I was always surprised more of them havent come over.

Well any offensive player would be a complete liability defending, so that rules out a fair few. Plus, none of them can pass or kick.

Some safeties or corners like Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie would possibly be the closest to having the all around skill set to possibly play on the wing (minus the ability to kick obviously), but guys of that calibre are on $3m+ a year; not even French sugar daddies could entice him away.

I'm sure Eddie O'Sullivan looked into recruiting former college players when he was over in the states. You'd have scores of lightening-quick power houses who weren't good enough to play running back in the NFL.

irishbucsfan

You guys are completely overlooking the fact that these guys would not be nearly as big or fast if they had to condition themselves to play 80 minutes of continuous rugby for twice the length of time each year. They'd be no bigger than what we have.

Vice Versa for rugby players going across. Ferris could easilly put on weight if he didn't have to maintain the same standards of aerobic fitness.

Joey Galloway was the fastest guy in the NFL for most of his career. He had to take oxegen between plays. That's completely unsustainable for a professional rugby player.


Re: ODriscolls height, he's not too small for a safety. Same height as Ed Reed, 1 inch shorter than Brian Dawkins. They're too of the best I've ever seen.

davegrohl48

Some of the WRs have had excellent stamina. Jerry Rice during his NFL career was able to complete trail runs of several kilometres at decent pace (several lookback documentaries reference it).
Interestingly he said it gave him advantage in last ten minutes of games.
But he only had a 4.7, 40 at draft time so not a complete sprinter type.

But you are right for a lot of them they have awful stamina levels. Just pure sprinter. The guys with razor sharp 40's probably couldn't make the adjustment, born for sprinting. It would be like playing with 14 men defensively.

irishbucsfan

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Some of the WRs have had excellent stamina. Jerry Rice during his NFL career was able to complete trail runs of several kilometres at decent pace (several lookback documentaries reference it).
Interestingly he said it gave him advantage in last ten minutes of games.
But he only had a 4.7, 40 at draft time so not a complete sprinter type.

But you are right for a lot of them they have awful stamina levels. Just pure sprinter. The guys with razor sharp 40's probably couldn't make the adjustment, born for sprinting. It would be like playing with 14 men defensively.

Jerry Rice wasn't big enough, wasn't tall enough, wasn't fast enough. Yet he still became one of the all time greats. The fact the guy was 43 when he retired just shows what a legend he was.

KJY

The likes of Demarcus Ware and Clay Matthews would be unbelievable back rowers

Blut2

KJY wrote: »

The likes of Demarcus Ware and Clay Matthews would be unbelievable back rowers

Matthews would be very much in the Ferris mould of backrowers I'd say. Both 116kg and 6ft 4 and extremely aggressive. I dont think I'd want to be an outhalf facing Matthews coming in for a tackle.

matthew8

I don't think the guys who put up the big stats would transfer very well. I think Ben Roethlisberger would be a very good ballcarrier in rugby. Put him in at prop or something . Or hooker. Actually he'd be a great hooker. As for the guys who could last, I think Ray Lewis has shown he can last a long time and presumably would be able to handle rugby. The offensive linemen play pretty much every play of the game so they would do well too.

I think props like Nathan White and Census Johnston would transfer very well to the offensive line.

Tox56

Put TEBOW in centre.

RoundBox11

I don't know the different NFL positions, but surely guys like Tony Buckley, John Hayes and Tonga'uiha could put their size to good use no?

irishbucsfan

Tebow at number 8 would be interesting.

Josh Freeman is massive (6'6, 110 kg), he'd probably make a good second row.

Jerry Flannery would have made a great cheerleader.

Tox56

Now that I think about it, Cam Newton could play any position he wanted.

Colonialboy

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well any offensive player would be a complete liability defending, so that rules out a fair few. Plus, none of them can pass or kick.

They couldnt be any worse at passing or handling the ball than some of the current Irish golden generation :-)

Imagine if Reddan took the ball at the base of the scrum and threw a diagonal spear pass (ala Tom Brady) 40 meters across the pitch skipping everyone into Tommy Bowes hands and he ran in for a try and then did his down on one knee Tebow thing... (im getting carried away I think)

Lets not draw the yanks and the NFL on us otherwise we will end up with long legged blonde bimbos in skimpy clothes dancing in the Aviva at half-time and nobody wants that ...right ;-)