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[Gear] - Deep Section Wheels
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Would I be correct in guessing that most athletes would be better off losing a few kgs than spending huge money on wheels. I'm not being factious, but surely unless your at perfect weight and everything else is in good order then expensive wheels won't make a whole lot of difference. I ask this as someone with a good bike with stock wheels but still about 5/6kg overweight.
(If spending the money on wheels alleviates my need to lose those few kgs then I'll rob a post office to get the loot).
Is a power meter not a better investment for the majority of people?
I think you are right but it's a personal question and everybody has to answer it for themselves, weather they are willing to post their personal answers here or not...again a personal thing. So personally, I am practically at race weight (I think) after dropping 10kg over the winter and still 55 odd days to A race, hence the reason I was quick to answer this question
For me a disc wheel at c.€120 vs a power meter at c.€1000+? Well I know which I can afford right now. Money no option then yes I would power meter my bike up first.0 -
El Director wrote: »Would I be correct in guessing that most athletes would be better off losing a few kgs than spending huge money on wheels. I'm not being factious, but surely unless your at perfect weight and everything else is in good order then expensive wheels won't make a whole lot of difference. I ask this as someone with a good bike with stock wheels but still about 5/6kg overweight.
(If spending the money on wheels alleviates my need to lose those few kgs then I'll rob a post office to get the loot).
Is a power meter not a better investment for the majority of people?
I think you are right but it's a personal question and everybody has to answer it for themselves, weather they are willing to post their personal answers here or not...again a personal thing. So personally, I am practically at race weight (I think) after dropping 10kg over the winter and still 55 odd days to A race, hence the reason I was quick to answer this question
For me a disc wheel at c.€120 vs a power meter at c.€1000+? Well I know which I can afford right now. Money no option then yes I would power meter my bike up first.
It's too late in the season to buy a power meter, where as buying wheels = buying speed. On a flat course aero beats weight.
All that said... I would spend a grand on power before I'd spend a grand on wheels.0 -
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Just buying better wheels will make anyone go faster, whether overweight or not. The same cannot be said for just buying a power meter. You still need to learn how to train with it and use it correctly. And don't forget it's still possible to train hard and effectively without a power meter.
I spent €1,550 on two Zipp wheels back in the day. I never seriously looked into investing in a power meter, but I know they can go for similar prices. I don't think you're going to save a whole lot by buying one over the other. Admittedly I know next to nothing about training by power, but if it's a straight up choice between buying wheels or a power meter, the wheels would definitely be my recommendation.
I would disagree from personal experience, power meter if used & trained with properly will garner bigger improvements. All about the engine and less about the bling:) 1k on wheels or 1k on power meter it would be the power meter all day long....my missus would probably say I would buy both though 0 -
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El Director wrote: »Fazz is testing it out this weekend so perhaps if he doesn't mind he will report back here?
Ok, did a stint today on race setup with disc cover.
Not the windiest but there were a few crosswinds which actually seemed easier to handle. May be that the winds were not strong by comparison to previous but either way pretty impressed.
In terms of performance gains, too hard to judge to be honest. I did a couple of 20min pacey stints and was flying but that's just the engine LOL
Had a tail wind going down and no issue and flew, headwind coming back and that's where a couple of crosswinds came but seemed easier to balance bike. Like I was leaning more instead of getting the front wheel moved easier from under me.
Now could be the placebo effect and also the psychological effect but from reading that article about needing more cover on the rear to handle a deep dish front it really did feel like that.
Back out tomorrow for a longer stint and more varied roads so hopefully be a better test and yield similar results.
Good signs so far.0 -
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Looks like you need a PM, all the cool kids have them.. I'm so cool I have two :cool:
Now I just need some power to back them up.
Well a PM would you believe is two years aways in my SUPER BIKE BUILD plan...may have to rethink that one, reason being-I won't be HIM racing again for 2 years and I feel like Bambaata that power is more important the longer the race distance. In saying all that.....if a man was looking for a buyer of a spare PM....I might know someone interested....although he is so broke right now he can't even afford to pay attention:cool:! Shall I get my jacket??
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Thats a hard one to answer truthfully but the real clincher for power is training with it. If i had a choice of training with power for months in advance of the event or race wheels for the day id go with power if that meant racing on bog standard wheels. Its really the hours and hours spent beforehand that count. And i do all that training on such wheels 0
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If of similar ability starting out the guy who trained with a PM is going to be a stronger biker on the day and hence also have more for the run.
Also a PM can be got for a lot less than bling wheels. You can get a Power2Max and have €500-700 for decent wheels for the price of a set of Zipps. Sure you'd prob pick up a second hand pair of Zipps for that
Im not all that up on the science on all this but i know from experience that training with a power meter is far superior than without. Thats as long as its used correctly but thats where coach comes into his own 0 -
Ok, did a stint today on race setup with disc cover.
Not the windiest but there were a few crosswinds which actually seemed easier to handle. May be that the winds were not strong by comparison to previous but either way pretty impressed.
In terms of performance gains, too hard to judge to be honest. I did a couple of 20min pacey stints and was flying but that's just the engine LOL
Had a tail wind going down and no issue and flew, headwind coming back and that's where a couple of crosswinds came but seemed easier to balance bike. Like I was leaning more instead of getting the front wheel moved easier from under me.
Now could be the placebo effect and also the psychological effect but from reading that article about needing more cover on the rear to handle a deep dish front it really did feel like that.
Back out tomorrow for a longer stint and more varied roads so hopefully be a better test and yield similar results.
Good signs so far.
Ok followed up today with another decent stint including hills, N11 down and backs, road from N11 at Kilmacanogue to Roundwood - anyone that knows this will be well used to the cross winds once you climb the hill.
I went out and back this also.
Now today wasn't the windiest, but did have a few gusts and constant blowing of some form.
Happy to report Disc cover was no issue at all. Felt fast, and if anything when I did get a cross wind it seemed to help stabilise things.
Hard to explain, could be down to cross winds not being as strong as I've experienced before but I didn't get thrown around at all.
Almost felt like when the front was getting a gust, the rear would then come into play and help stabilise the whole bike causing me more to just lean into wind rather than full on turn adjustment of front wheel.
This will be my race setup for all races this season until I experience otherwise.
Again, it's impossible to compare to previous days when I've experienced a lot worse gusts moving me on shallower wheels, but on todays experience, I loved it.
Until I experience otherwise I have to say this was superb and recommend it to all.
Disclaimer - could be related to lower winds than normal but didn't feel like it.
Make your own decision and do not come blaming me
PS Disc noise is in effect also! 0 -
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If of similar ability starting out the guy who trained with a PM is going to be a stronger biker on the day and hence also have more for the run.
Ye but he's also going to be minus his aero wheels, this hands an advantage back to the guy with those wheels. Whether this disadvantage can be overcome due to the benefits of having trained with a PM I don't know, but assuming the rival was still training smartly, I think the gap, if it exists at all, will be a lot closer than you think.Im not all that up on the science on all this but i know from experience that training with a power meter is far superior than without. Thats as long as its used correctly but thats where coach comes into his ownOmari Attractive Tariff wrote: »Zico i can only go on personal experience this year with training with a power meter and a coach who knows what he is about and say the improvements i have made this year will far outway the same athlete as me last year without the bling wheels.
That's the thing, you both talk about coaches and a PM, not just a PM. Not trying to be a smart arse, but coaches are hardly free. The original question I responded to asked would a power meter be the best bang for buck an athlete could invest in. A coach is an added expense and for a decent coach over a year it's going to add hugely to your outlay on triathlon. And it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect a decent coach to come up with a decent training plan for an AG athlete who doesn't have a PM.Omari Attractive Tariff wrote: »I am not sure about what extra watts would need to be pushed out on non aero wheels but my honest opinion is i do not believe i am going slower on the bog standard wheels in the last few rides compared to the zipps. Thats probably because i am going faster as my power is creeping up.
I'm sure my power was creeping up when I was training for an IM. I never trained with power, or HR for that matter, but just because I wasn't paying any attention to them doesn't mean improvements weren't being made.Omari Attractive Tariff wrote: »Easy to say but unless you are training with a power meter you will not understand. I have dropped a few bob on tri stuff but my best investment is the PM.
Maybe I'm only seeing what I want to see, but is there not evidence cropping up in the FTP thread, that warns against becoming a slave to power?
I originally posted recommending wheels over a PM, and I'll probably never know for sure until I train by power, but I'll still stand by that recommendation.Omari Attractive Tariff wrote: »A case in point is Bambatta's work on the bike this year, much improved on last year and will be a better cyclist for it!!
I have never followed Bambaata's training, but you're hardly lying when you say he will be a better cyclist this year, on account of his training with a PM. Surely with a similar volume of training he would have been cyclist regardless. One thing is certain though if he arrives at a race having forgot his race wheels he's going to clock a slower bike time.Also a PM can be got for a lot less than bling wheels. You can get a Power2Max and have €500-700 for decent wheels for the price of a set of Zipps. Sure you'd prob pick up a second hand pair of Zipps for that
That might be the best sloution.:)0 -
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How much of an improvement will a pair of wheels make in a 40k TT?
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=1099
Not as much as you think!!
Zipp seem to claim on their website that there would be a 30watt saving with their wheels over an OLY course. Cannot see it myself although open to tests supporting the claims, 30w just seems massive. I might do my own test 0 -
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