Seen & Found

bawn79

http://binged.it/SSVMVL Listed as an enclosure of drystone construction with Large facing stones... Could it be a Stone Circle?

That does look very circular doesn't it. Tom Fourwinds on his site reckons he found an unrecorded stone circle on the western side of these hills
http://www.megalithomania.com/show/site/1680/knockanaffrin_stone_circle.htm
so it is possible that even stone circles can be missed / misidentified.

This I assume is the description on Archaeology.ie Description: Situated on a gentle SE-facing slope in the upper Tay river valley. Subcircular area (int. dims. 28m E-W; 23.5m N-S) defined by a grass-covered stone spread (Wth 2m) with large stones (dims. 1m x 0.4m; H 0.7m) on the outer face, particularly W-NE. The out-turned entrance (Wth 5.4m) at SE (downslope) might not be original and a dry-stone built structure (int. diam. 1.3m) against the inner face of the E wall is secondary. The interior supports dense rush growth in places. It is within field system (WA014-040----), but not connected with any of its walls.

Some interesting sites described on this guys website in the waterford area.
http://www.prehistoricwaterford.com/sites-a-z/

Has some pictures of enclosures in the general area etc.

Simon.d

Simon.d wrote: »

http://binged.it/PUm1JZ - Earthwork remains of the Medieval Town of Kilbixy in Westmeath

http://binged.it/PUmETM - Extensive earthworks around Abbeyshrule, Longford..

http://binged.it/PUnQXs - Extremely interesting this one.. Huge circular feature 250m in diameter.... You can make out two/three concentric Ditches in the Northern portion of it, and a concentric raised bank demarking the south edge of it... Lots of other associated earthworks.. Quite the massive feature... There's a listing of a couple of barrows a bit to the south on the monument record, but no listing of this earthwork.. I'm thinking no one knows about it... Any thoughts!? I'm thinking along the lines of a Fortified Iron Age Settlement....

Got some feedback on this site today, an archaeologist from the NMS paid it a visit:

I carried out fieldwalking in the area that you highlighted from google maps. The earthworks that you identified appear to form part of an extensive field system formed by curving drainage channels located between two streams. The curving earthworks do not form a circular enclosure but instead represent drainage channels that are curving around the base of a low hill forming the partial double enclosing ditches that you see you see on the aerial photographs. The fields that these earthworks are located are very wet and the ditches are an attempt to provide small slightly raised dry paddocks for agricultural purposes. When these are traced on the ground you can see clearly that they terminate where they hit naturally dry ground and therefore do not form an enclosing element around the base of this low hill. However within this pattern of drainge channels and small fields there is a raised circular platform c. 30m in diameter and c. 2m high similar to a type of monument known in Ireland as a raised rath or platform ringfort which is an unrecorded monument dating from the early Christian period. I have plotted and surveyed this new monument which will be uploaded in the near future onto our website www.archaeology.ie

A Good Result methinks!

slowburner

Here's what Aidan O'Sullivan said in the Sunday Times article (28/10/12) on the discovery at Tara.

Just as amateur astronomers use telescopes in back gardens to identify distant galactic objects and then contact professional astronomers to get confirmation, so too could amateur archaeologists....
...With ordinary people working with institutes, universities like UCD, or museums, the prospect for archaeological discoveries is great.

Congratulations, Simon.d

(I had a feeling the ditches were connected with drainage one way or the other)

Simon.d

http://binged.it/YENGUd - No listing, an assortment of rectilinear features in Co. Waterford

Simon.d

http://binged.it/VNkRGA - Interesting (listed) motte site in Wexford, can make out some surrounding earthworks

http://binged.it/SXlYl3 - Another great Kilkenny fortress

slowburner

Simon.d wrote: »

http://binged.it/YENGUd - No listing, an assortment of rectilinear features in Co. Waterford

They're odd.
First thought was that they were field walls but each one is discrete. Walled gardens perhaps? The layout is not dissimilar to a formal knot garden.
The nearby house seems not to be the sort that would have had such gardens.
There is no sign of earlier field boundaries aligning with the earthworks, nor indeed any depiction of walled gardens, on either the 1st or 2nd edition maps.
I think we can rule out their being modern on the basis that they exist only as crop marks in the 2005 orthophotography.

The house has 'a pump' noted in the 2nd edition map.
Might this give a clue - could they be remnants of ponds?

Simon.d

http://binged.it/VO2RMk - Bivallate hillfort near ballyragget, Co. Kilkenny

Simon.d

slowburner wrote: »

The house has 'a pump' noted in the 2nd edition map.
Might this give a clue - could they be remnants of ponds?

Could be.. Not real idea's as to what it is.. No historical references to a big a house in that townland that I can find..

slowburner

Simon.d wrote: »

Could be.. Not real idea's as to what it is.. No historical references to a big a house in that townland that I can find..

Time for some footwork, methinks (if you think the site is sufficiently interesting).

I'm sure a chat with the current occupiers of the house would reveal a great deal about what was going on, and when.

My gut instinct is late C.19th landscaping, but the possibility of earlier works, possibly connected to the 2nd edition map reference to the pump, could be of local historical interest.

Simon.d

slowburner wrote: »

Time for some footwork, methinks (if you think the site is sufficiently interesting).

I'm sure a chat with the current occupiers of the house would reveal a great deal about what was going on, and when.

My gut instinct is late C.19th landscaping, but the possibility of earlier works, possibly connected to the 2nd edition map reference to the pump, could be of local historical interest.

Could even be associated features still standing above ground in and around that farmyard... A bit of local knowledge could be very helpful.......

Coles

Simon.d wrote: »

http://binged.it/VO2RMk - Bivallate hillfort near ballyragget, Co. Kilkenny

Is there the hint of a third ring around the site to the north? The elevations on the old 6" maps show the profile of the hill quite well.
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,647494,671039,7,7

Mountainsandh

I found this on Ballydurn, in case you hadn't seen it.
http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=4201

I'm further West so not of much help to you, unless I got a chance to go to the library, there are records available to peruse there. If I do I'll post on here, but I'm pretty busy so unlikely in near future

there must have been a big house, just found this : http://www.munster-express.ie/community-notes/stradbally/captain-james-barron/

Other fine houses with the Barron’s were; Carrigbarahane House, Georgestown House, Hermitage alias Abbey Lodge, Seafield(Later the birth place of Mark Anthony),Durrow(home of Philip Barron Irish Scolar), Ballyneale (Bishop Barron), Ballydurne and Ballymacart(Old Parish)

Mountainsandh

Probably totally unrelated but Ballydurn also comes up in relation to point to point races held there in 2009 if that's any bit useful info.

Coles

slowburner wrote: »

They're odd.
First thought was that they were field walls but each one is discrete. Walled gardens perhaps? The layout is not dissimilar to a formal knot garden.
The nearby house seems not to be the sort that would have had such gardens.
There is no sign of earlier field boundaries aligning with the earthworks, nor indeed any depiction of walled gardens, on either the 1st or 2nd edition maps.
I think we can rule out their being modern on the basis that they exist only as crop marks in the 2005 orthophotography.

The house has 'a pump' noted in the 2nd edition map.
Might this give a clue - could they be remnants of ponds?

The site is on quite a steep northwest facing slope. Not ideal for gardens, and not sufficient stream flow for fish ponds.

slowburner

Looking at the Bing bird's eye view, I agree that the site is unsuited to ponds.
This view is approximately from the north west.

Simon.d

Coles wrote: »

Is there the hint of a third ring around the site to the north? The elevations on the old 6" maps show the profile of the hill quite well.
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,647494,671039,7,7

Indeed! .. If so it could have been a huge enclosure, giving a radius on that side of 400m. Assuming it continued around the site, the total enclosed area would have approached 120 acres....

Simon.d

http://binged.it/UArc2t - Square feature (possible norman moated site), not listed.. Close to Ballyragget. Alot going on in the surronding landscape, some of which is listed, including "Barney Church" ruins to the south.

http://binged.it/UArhDg - Same site, looks like the road used to continue into this field (not on OSI maps, so probably pre-1800s), think I can make out a small square feature too..

http://binged.it/SWyhOq - Listed enclosure in same complex


http://binged.it/UAtfDK - Unlisted earthworks in Firoda Upper, Kilkenny

Simon.d

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I found this on Ballydurn, in case you hadn't seen it.
http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=4201

I'm further West so not of much help to you, unless I got a chance to go to the library, there are records available to peruse there. If I do I'll post on here, but I'm pretty busy so unlikely in near future

there must have been a big house, just found this : http://www.munster-express.ie/community-notes/stradbally/captain-james-barron/

Found a map from c1750 of the county by Charles Smith.. The little house symbol is defined in the legend as a Seat, and as you can see there's one at "Ballydawn".. The Civil survey of c1650 lists no building in the townland, so It's looks like the chronology fits in well with that article on the Barrons.. So could be the remnants of a big house that was built c1700, that fell into ruin before that century came to a close..


John Barron, born 1718, (Grandson of Captain James Barron referenced in the article above), who lived in Ballydurne: http://www.thepeerage.com/p26692.htm#i266911 .

Simon.d

http://binged.it/UAXtX6 - Any thoughts on this strange marking?

slowburner

Simon.d wrote: »

http://binged.it/UAXtX6 - Any thoughts on this strange marking?

They are footprints of animal feeders, rotated about a central feed locus.

Simon.d

Was out this morning at Crooke Castle ( http://binged.it/RuG43D ), a one time Templar Knight stronghold in Waterford. The following is a stiched image, made up of many combined photos automatically assembled. The low lying winter sun helped in highlighting the many linears (and circulars?)(high res image here):



Output from a photogrammetric model of the site. The animation shows a changing light angle, to show up the different features:

Mountainsandh

I would like to have your opinions on this spot ? Apologies Slowburner, I posted this before, but this seems to be an updated (2012) aerial view, and now I see a lot more than I saw before (that is, nothing !) :eek:

This is listed as "earthworks" not visible from ground level. There is actually a standing stone in that field which I think could have been preserved and re-erected by the land owners ? (no record of it)
The local folklore (obviously derived from the name of the place) has it that it was a fort. There are several ringforts to the East (Tooraneena area) and it appears on the 6" map as a ringfort.

Some individual fenced trees have been planted at the foot of a ridge on the left hand side, just before the forestry/wood line, other than that, the field is undulating a bit. Might take a ground level view soon if this might help.

http://binged.it/W1Rxrf

slowburner

http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/

WA013-009 has it as...
'Marked faintly as a circular enclosure (diam. c. 35m) on the 1840 ed. of OS 6-inch map, and situated in pasture on an E-facing slope.
It is not visible at ground level.'
"Archaeological Inventory of Waterford" 1999 Rev. 2009 .

The 'dog's leg in the field boundary to the East, points very nicely to the enclosure.



The enclosure may still be visible in the Bing image today.





The second edition map shows a lime kiln, just south across the Doon (?) road, so perhaps some of the other earthworks in the field were connected to the workings of the lime kiln.

Mountainsandh

you're probably right. The pocmarks (spelling ) could simply be rain draining from the hill to the left, there are a few around the area, albeit usually muddier and smaller.
I think the standing stone is around the location of that little circular mark, not sure though, I need to stop and look (and click) again.

The area is full of lime kilns, never really saw any earthworks associated with them though.

slowburner

Mountainsandh wrote: »

you're probably right. The pocmarks (spelling ) could simply be rain draining from the hill to the left, there are a few around the area, albeit usually muddier and smaller.
I think the standing stone is around the location of that little circular mark, not sure though, I need to stop and look (and click) again.

The area is full of lime kilns, never really saw any earthworks associated with them though.

The standing stone is probably there to serve the needs of animals - it's probably not from antiquity.
That said, I like the possibility that it came from the enclosure.

This is a brilliant time of year for photographing earth shapes.
Early morning, and evening low angle sunlight can often reveal more than aerial views. If you can get to a slightly more elevated vantage point - when the shadows are lengthening - it can be a revelation.

bawn79

Simon.d wrote: »

Was out this morning at Crooke Castle ( http://binged.it/RuG43D ), a one time Templar Knight stronghold in Waterford. The following is a stiched image, made up of many combined photos automatically assembled. The low lying winter sun helped in highlighting the many linears (and circulars?)(high res image here):


Output from a photogrammetric model of the site. The animation shows a changing light angle, to show up the different features:

Was that the balloon and the camera again Simon? Its a great job.

Do you have a look at bing systemically or how do you go about it?

slowburner

@Simon d. - our photographics whizkid

Can you share with us how you stitched those images together?
Another thing I'd love to be able to do, is lay one image over another with a controllable degree of transparency - a transparency overlay similar to the OSI site. It would be very useful indeed.

Any suggestions?

>>

And here's a simple image of a field.
With low angle winter sunlight, four or five old field walls are revealed, as well as a double ditch and bank, and old plough ridges.
These features are not visible under any other light conditions.

Simon.d

bawn79 wrote: »

Was that the balloon and the camera again Simon? Its a great job.

Very happy with the detail I must say.. I do it with a remote controlled plane with a small camera strapped to it's belly.. So much more fun than a balloon! Fly above the site for 15 minutes or so, with camera snapping every 5 seconds, and then head home to process the results... My main enemy with this type of setup is motion blur, so good light and minimal speed is critical to get this level of detail..

slowburner wrote: »

@Simon d. - our photographics whizkid

Can you share with us how you stitched those images together?
Another thing I'd love to be able to do, is lay one image over another with a controllable degree of transparency - a transparency overlay similar to the OSI site. It would be very useful indeed.

Any suggestions?

Stiching I did with Microsoft's "Image Composite Editor".. Very easy to use..

For layering images I use GIMP (a free photoshop clone).. There's a transparency bar for each layer, so you've full control.. Take's a bit of getting used to though, but it's great software when you get the hang of it.. And free!.. The GIF animation above was also generated using this program..

Coles

Any thoughts on these oddities? Possibly beside a small enclosure? They seem to be all over the place... http://binged.it/SZTnKK

slowburner

Coles wrote: »

Any thoughts on these oddities? Possibly beside a small enclosure? They seem to be all over the place... http://binged.it/SZTnKK

Not at a desktop right now, but they look like sandpits.