Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

KCAccidental

bikeman1 wrote: »

Does anyone else find the extremely in depth analysis provided above a bit too much?

It's only a bus going non stop Dublin - Cork and vice versa!

Aircoach provide cheaper fares and a more frequent service they're busier than GoBE who charge more for a less frequent service.

How many more months will this be discussed for?!!!

I think you're in the wrong place if you find this stuff too much Bikeman

bikeman1

No not at all. I read all the threads, it's just a bit repetitive at this stage about the Dublin - Cork road. That is all.

Hogzy

bikeman1 wrote: »

No not at all. I read all the threads, it's just a bit repetitive at this stage about the Dublin - Cork road. That is all.

If you find it repetitive why dont you stop reading the thread so.

AlekSmart

bikeman1 wrote: »

Does anyone else find the extremely in depth analysis provided above a bit too much?

It's only a bus going non stop Dublin - Cork and vice versa!

Aircoach provide cheaper fares and a more frequent service they're busier than GoBE who charge more for a less frequent service.

How many more months will this be discussed for?!!!

Just wait until they're turfed out of Westmoreland Street for BXD !

I believe a very big contributory factor to the Aircoach Cork Express success has been the Westmoreland Street location.....it is supremely easy to find and somewhat less of a....."battle"... to reach than Busáras.

The actual arrangements for relocating these Express Services need to be in the Public Domain VERY soon,because the travelling public are VERY fickle when it comes to being sent on adventurous rambles to locate their Coach/Bus....;)

BenShermin

Dublin and Cork are the biggest cities in the country. Fast, frequent and cheap public transport between these centres is of huge importance imo and I actually enjoy reading Devnull and BK's contributions to these threads.

If GoBÉ collapse it would destroy the route IMO. Aircoach's only competition then would be Irish Rail. With the amount of loyal customers Aircoach have there's nothing stopping them from having a restrictive and expensive yield management fare system on this route if there's no other viable bus competition.

€25 to €30 for a return bus ticket could become the norm for Friday and Sunday evening peak buses, and IMO the people will still happily pay this as no other competition could (or want) to offer such a fare. Even at such a dear price it still beats fueling a car and paying the tolls for the return trip so the customers wouldn't be lost.

As a regular user of GoBÉ it's actually frustrating to see a company that operates better, more comfortable buses imo doing so bad against Aircoach who operate sub-standard buses many of which get delayed at Urlingford because they're toiletless.

I completely agree with BK that frequency is one of GoBÉs biggest problems. Dublin Airport pax especially would prefer the guaranteed hourly departures that Aircoach offer, especially when it comes to flight delays, immigration queues, waiting for luggage etc.

At the end of the day I'd hate to see Go Bus fail on this route. It's improved my life immensely in the last year and I now see my family in Cork more often than I ever had and in similar comfort (and cheaper) to the train.

devnull

BenShermin wrote: »

If GoBÉ collapse it would destroy the route IMO. Aircoach's only competition then would be Irish Rail. With the amount of loyal customers Aircoach have there's nothing stopping them from having a restrictive and expensive yield management fare system on this route if there's no other viable bus competition.

Generally though Aircoach have not been the kind of company to go for lots of fare hikes and abuse their position they've only had three price increases since 2005, so that is pretty good going compared to some operators both here and abroad who seem to hike their prices up almost every year.

I would agree however that we wouldn't have the €9/€10 single fares if it wasn't for competition though and that can only be a good thing, but I still can't help thinking that in an ideal world both operators would like to see the prices a couple of euro or so higher, but as stated earlier GoBus caused the current level of pricing.

As a regular user of GoBÉ it's actually frustrating to see a company that operates better, more comfortable buses imo doing so bad against Aircoach who operate sub-standard buses many of which get delayed at Urlingford because they're toiletless.

I wouldn't necessary agree with that, since it's far less straight forwarded than that. The Sub standard Aircoach vehicles are the toilet equipped ones, which are very tight for leg-room. Ironically the non sub-standard vehicles with the most leg-room are the ones that do not have toilets, so whilst I'd agree that some are toilet-less and sub-standard, none of the coaches are both in my opinion.

It is true that GoBus certainly offers a more consistent experience since all their vehicles have toilets and are of a similar standard to each other. The experience with Aircoach varies, you can get a very comfortable coach that is better than GoBe can offer without a toilet, or a coach that falls far short of what GoBe can offer with a toilet. So with Aircoach it is a bit of a lottery whereas GoBe have a better all-round vehicle.

At the end of the day I'd hate to see Go Bus fail on this route. It's improved my life immensely in the last year and I now see my family in Cork more often than I ever had and in similar comfort (and cheaper) to the train.

I'd hate to see them go too, since competition always reduces prices, increases customer awareness of the service, and keeps operators on their toes and therefore providing a better service. A monopoly is never good for anyone, but despite the fact GoBe have done some good things, I still can't help they could have played their cards in the past a little different.

bk

I think the big problem with the Aircoach service is the variability of the service. You either get:

- A coach with a toilet, but inferior leg room and comfort
- A coach with excellent comfort and leg room, but no toilet and potentially a 15 minute delay due to the toilet break stop at the frankly disgusting and smelly Urlingford.

And worst of all, you don't know which compromise you will end up with every time you go for it!

And as we know, there is no need for this compromise, as you can see with Citylinks superb Vanhools, you can have both excellent comfort and leg room and a toilet (thus no stops and delays).

Yes, yes, I'm aware of the leasing constraints Aircoach are under, I'm still hopeful they will be able to improve the situation eventually.

But all this is beside the more interesting question. What can GoBE do to improve take up of their service?

I know what you are saying about yields, etc. Devnull, but I honestly think they can't continue this way and need to do something radical. I think they need to simplify and drop their prices to nearer (but not under) Aircoach and go back to an hourly schedule.

Yes, they might suffer some pain doing that, but I honestly believe that only by being brave and going for it now, might they gain success in the long term.

What is the alternative, they continue to limp along like they have so far, hoping Aircoach make some mistake? not a very good business plan IMO.

monument

bikeman1 wrote: »

Does anyone else find the extremely in depth analysis provided above a bit too much?

It's only a bus going non stop Dublin - Cork and vice versa!

Aircoach provide cheaper fares and a more frequent service they're busier than GoBE who charge more for a less frequent service.

How many more months will this be discussed for?!!!

It could go on for years.

It's as simple as this: Stop reading and click unfollow when you've had enough. Nobody is forcing you to read the thread but it's clear others are still interisted!

Back on topic please -- as always this applies to everybody!

bk

So my mum just got the 6am Aircoach from Cork to Dublin Airport.

It was 95% full (she didn't notice anyone getting left behind, but also didn't see any empty seats).

I meet her at the airport and it seems that majority of people were going to the airport, it seems only 3 or 4 got off at Dublin City Center. So even more money for Aircoach!

She said most people seemed to have booked online.

Wow Aircoach most be doing really well on this route when they are even filling coaches at 6am on a Tuesday!!

Interestingly the coach was a Caetano and my mum really liked it! She liked the floor level toilet, goes to show, people can have all sorts of different views!

Now I don't mean to get into a fight about what I'm about to say, but my mum and her friend are retired and thus get the free travel, yet they opted to pay for the Aircoach rather then taking the train and they were delighted with it! They loved being dropped right at the door of departures of Terminal 2 and not having to drag bags on and off the train and go search for a taxi, etc.

I think Irish Rail have a weakness here and I wonder if it might make sense for them to run their own direct free (if you have a train ticket) bus service from Hueston to the Airport?

If Aircoach do get in trouble, it certainly won't be because of the Cork route, to me it is looking like one of the busiest and most successful bus routes in Ireland now! However they might get in trouble from the Airport city routes, I noticed an Aircoach Greystones coach at the airport that was totally empty!

devnull

Dublin Bus have a route from Heuston to Dublin Airport, but it takes a very round the houses way of getting there and is an extra €6 single or €10 return since the old 747 and 748 routes are now combined. Previous to this the 748 from Heuston was much more direct.

Can't help thinkt hat they are missing a trick by not offering a through ticket to Dublin Airport at a slightly reduced price for the bus, which would improve dwell time at Heuston to for services leaving.

bk

devnull wrote: »

Dublin Bus have a route from Heuston to Dublin Airport, but it takes a very round the houses way of getting there and is an extra €6 single or €10 return since the old 747 and 748 routes are now combined. Previous to this the 748 from Heuston was much more direct.

I'm aware of the 747, but ironically it isn't included in the free travel pass. Taking the Aircoach direct from Cork to Dublin Airport isn't that much more expensive then just the 747 on it's own!!

I think they need to be more aggressive then that, I think they need to offer a direct non stop bus service from Hueston to Dublin Airport and include it for free in the standard ticket from Cork/Galway/Limerick etc.

Otherwise I don't see it being more attractive then just taking the direct private bus companies from these cities.

bk

BTW does GoBE drop passengers off at departures at terminal 2 and 1, like Aircoach, Citylink and I think GoBus do?

Or do they only operate directly to and from the Coach park?

Onthe3rdDay

I have to get the odd connection from Busáras to go to places such as Monaghan, Derry and elsewhere. The solution appeared to be GoBe to Busáras and then onwards... However, having to wait an hour at Busáras is not pleasant. So I now go to the airport and wait an hour or so there instead. I can get a coffee and something to eat without constantly worrying about pickpockets, beggars and the pigeons. That's not mentioning the toilets which are barely a step above the one in trainspotting.

I honestly believe that GoBe would be a lot more successful if people could get off before Busáras which always has that undercurrent of menace.

AlekSmart

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I honestly believe that GoBe would be a lot more successful if people could get off before Busáras which always has that undercurrent of menace.

You better believe it,3rd day.

The steady downward progress of Busaras can be neatly merged with assorted threads on the adventures of Luas Red Liners,but nonetheless it does show that Busarás has outlived it's usefullness.

The reality is that Dublin City Centre can be a highly intimidating place at all times of the day and night for those not desensitized enough.

For some reason however, the location of the Westmoreland St Coach Stops is quite an Oasis of normality in a desert of madness

Mikehaw

bikeman1 wrote: »

Does anyone else find the extremely in depth analysis provided above a bit too much?

It's only a bus going non stop Dublin - Cork and vice versa!

Aircoach provide cheaper fares and a more frequent service they're busier than GoBE who charge more for a less frequent service.

How many more months will this be discussed for?!!!

I find the "anal" (excuse the pun) over analysis of bus toilets a bit much!

Some people should consider talking to their doctors about their bladder, it's definetly not normal nor healthy either that or its weird to have such an obsession about bus toilets!

Mikehaw

AlekSmart wrote: »

You better believe it,3rd day.

The steady downward progress of Busaras can be neatly merged with assorted threads on the adventures of Luas Red Liners,but nonetheless it does show that Busarás has outlived it's usefullness.

The reality is that Dublin City Centre can be a highly intimidating place at all times of the day and night for those not desensitized enough.

For some reason however, the location of the Westmoreland St Coach Stops is quite an Oasis of normality in a desert of madness

That horrible building Hawkins house would be an ideal location for a bus station. Especially with the new public transport bus bridge over the Liffey

devnull

From what I've seen the loadings have gone down a little bit recently and the train is winning back a small number of passengers since the price changes, although there is by no means a huge difference.

Was very noticeable the Friday before last on the 6pm bus that a relief bus was full, but the one coming from the airport couldn't even manage 50%. Before they'd normally get almost two full vehicles.

Gobus appear to be doing a little better, but not great improvement. BE have seen a rise in offpeak customers on the 8, but that's purely down to the fact it's dirt cheap at 5 euro - I certainly wouldn't want to spend a third more time on a bus to save 4 quid.

BenShermin

http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1352&month=Aug

New X8 timetable commencing on 15th September 2013. The service will now travel non-stop from Newlands-Cross to Cashel, the Portlaoise and Urlingford stops have been dropped. Buses are now timetabled to take 3hrs 45mins.

devnull

It was timetabled to take 3hrs 30 mins before they dropped the stops, so the fact they've dropped two stops and increased the running time by 15 minutes tells you all you need to know about how achievable the previous one was.

devnull

Information in the trade press that Aircoach have placed an order for 10x Plaxton coaches.
http://busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=8050&categoryid=0

I presume these may finally fix the debate in relation to toilets?

homerjay2005

does anybody know if the staff discount for the aircoach, is only for DAA official staff or can all airport staff get it?

for example, if somebody worked for Aer Lingus, would they be entitled to the discount?

devnull

The fares page says:
Staff Fare is available on production of a valid Dublin Airport I.D. Staff Fare cannot be purchased online in advance

You may want to email/call/tweet them or post on their Facebook page if you need things to be clarified further, but note that the Cork and Belfast routes don't have such a fare.

SandyfordGuy

The first of the new coaches are complete and will arrive in dublin shortly

devnull

Believed to be this coach according to another forum:
http://wallys-wanderings.smugmug.com/PlaxtonCoachbuilders/Coaches-and-Single-Deckers/22335812_VPXhCT#!i=2955630851&k=XRRQGVf

SandyfordGuy

First new coach now in livery
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23137045@N00/11422234115/

seems to indicate there will be a euro increase in price. Seems that the competition may be. Cutting back off peak soon to increase peak on peak days only according to their booking engine

BenShermin

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Seems that the competition may be. Cutting back off peak soon to increase peak on peak days only according to their booking engine

New timetable is now up on www.gobe.ie. Very disappointing, no services at all between 1830 and 0830 from either city. I'm going to have no choice but to switch to Aircoach for a lot of my 2014 trips as a result.

devnull

Well isn't that quite the cherry picking timetable?

They've decided that they're going to cancel all early morning and late evening services in both directions which results in a 33% cut of frequency on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday as they elect not to serve possible passengers who are arriving early or leaving late.

But don't worry, they're going to double their frequency, but only at peak times, only on Friday and Sunday, the peak days, and only from city center to city center rather than the airport, since it's well known that the times when they double the frequency is when most people are going home after a weekend, why bother with people from the airport?

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

Well isn't that quite the cherry picking timetable?

They've decided that they're going to cancel all early morning and late evening services in both directions which results in a 33% cut of frequency on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday as they all but abandon passengers who are arriving early or leaving late.

But don't worry, they're going to double their frequency, but only at peak times, only on Friday and Sunday, the peak days, and only from city center to city center rather than the airport, since it's well known that the times when they double the frequency is when most people are going home after a weekend, why bother with people from the airport?

I'm not sure people are "abandoned" - there are later and earlier alternatives from both Aircoach and Irish Rail.

This is a commercial operation, not a PSO service - frankly both GoBE and Aircoach are free to focus on the services that maximise loadings. It's been mentioned before here that the peak services needed additional capacity.

devnull

But my point still is that I don't like to see any operator, regardless of who they are decide they are going to do such things, when people come on these boards with misinformed rants about private operators cherry picking that they will just operate at the most profitable times, this kind of timetable just adds fuel to the fire.

It's true they are commercial operators and should be free to do as they please, but I want to see proper healthy competition on routes, not operators deciding, we'll compete at the busiest times, but we'll pull back from the quietest. If they were increasing peak OR cutting back off peak OR cutting airport departures OR cutting back to some days only, I'd have more sympathy.

But the fact that they've decided, they'll do all four at once just isn't something that I would find easy to stomach for any operator as a passenger. I'm a believer that private operators should be involved more in public transport in this country, but the people who are opposed to this are going to say this proves their point completely, since this is one of the very things they argue is negative about more private sector involvement.

I totally understand why GoBe want to go for more custom, and adding the extra peak services itself I have no problem with, it's just the four things put together that I don't think is good for the consumer. The fact is GoBE have changed their timetable three or four times now in little over a year. To me that shows they're going to chop and change whenever something doesn't 100% suit them and isn't 100% right.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

But my point still is that I don't like to see any operator, regardless of who they are decide they are going to do such things, when people come on these boards with misinformed rants about private operators cherry picking that they will just operate at the most profitable times, this kind of timetable just adds fuel to the fire.

It's true they are commercial operators and should be free to do as they please, but I want to see proper healthy competition on routes, not operators deciding, we'll compete at the busiest times, but we'll pull back from the quietest. If they were increasing peak OR cutting back off peak OR cutting airport departures OR cutting back to some days only, I'd have more sympathy.

But the fact that they've decided, they'll do all four at once just isn't something that I would find easy to stomach for any operator as a passenger. I'm a believer that private operators should be involved more in public transport in this country, but the people who are opposed to this are going to say this proves their point completely, since this is one of the very things they argue is negative about more private sector involvement.

I totally understand why GoBe want to go for more custom, and adding the extra peak services itself I have no problem with, it's just the four things put together that I don't think is good for the consumer. The fact is GoBE have changed their timetable three or four times now in little over a year. To me that shows they're going to chop and change whenever something doesn't 100% suit them and isn't 100% right.

If a service isn't working, it can be necessary to change it - that's the same with any transport operator. Frankly if the passenger numbers aren't there on certain services, and at the same time people are asking for more services at peak times on the peak days, then perhaps then they do need to reconfigure the schedule to maximise return. It's a more appropriate use of the assets. I'm not sure you can dictate to a company when they should operate a service when they are funding the entire operation themselves without state subsidy. That is not how business works.

It does suggest to me that the market on the route is a bit tighter than certain contributors to this board may think.