Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

devnull

In that case I totally agree with you!

LXFlyer

dowlingm wrote: »

to be clear - when I said NTA licensed I meant the CIE companies too (since they have NTA agreements). The only excuse for schedule changes on less than a month's notice should be that a bridge fell down or something.

Ok there are circumstances where I don't think that will work. Are you seriously suggesting that if a new schedule is introduced on a route that then proves impossible to deliver (due to for example running time problems) that no changes could be made for a month?

Where a new timetable is introduced and loads prove much better than initially expected and spare vehicles are available - again do you think they should have to wait a month?

I entirely agree however where the changes involve cuts.

dowlingm

lxflyer - I think the company would have to demonstrate what it did to create the timetable in the first place and be heavily fined if a timetable revision is deemed the only decent way to fix it in the interest of the passengers.

In the case of IE Limerick-Nenagh-Dublin for example they had loads of 22000s doing mileage runs which could have been sent from Limerick to Portlaoise to validate that the train would arrive on time in the lead up to the service. Instead they seem to have guesstimated and in the case of Limerick-Castleconnell just invented a timing (I think they reckoned on 15mins rather than the usual 20?) with catastrophic consequences.

devnull

Saw a couple of Bernard Kavanagh coaches going Cork to Dublin without passengers on the last few days, it would seem that GoBus may be starting soon, and will subcontract the service out to Bernard Kavanagh.

Last year Bernard Kavanagh operated all Dublin to Belfast Express services for Bus Eireann, which suggests that there could be a three way link up between Bus Eireann, GoBus and Bernard Kavanagh, particularly when Bus Eireann teamed up with GoBus before.

With Bus Eireann also set to launch the Belfast Express route this year in competition with the new Aircoach service, it seems there could be a joint effort between Bernard Kavanagh and Bus Eireann to restrict both of the new express routes by Aircoach. Not sure what a private would have to gain by teaming up with a state operator to take on another private though.

SandyfordGuy

The only way Bus Eireann can get a license for the Cork route would seem if one operator drops out so it's easy to see why they may want to help accelerate the chances of that happening. I can't see GoBus deciding to do a three way team-up though, they'd have to be very foolish to get involved with such a thing.

In any case back on topic, the Aicoach site has (finally) been updated and there is a new flyer to Download, which is much more in your face then the last one, so hopefully it will pick up a few new passengers. Hopefully when GoBus start it will result in a large war between GoBus and Aircoach which will only benefit the consumers. If we have a state company backing one or the other I don't think that is good in the long term of the industry.

New Aircoach Flyer here:
http://www.aircoach.ie/media/cork%20120906.pdf

foggy_lad

devnull wrote: »

Saw a couple of Bernard Kavanagh coaches going Cork to Dublin without passengers on the last few days, it would seem that GoBus may be starting soon, and will subcontract the service out to Bernard Kavanagh.

Last year Bernard Kavanagh operated all Dublin to Belfast Express services for Bus Eireann, which suggests that there could be a three way link up between Bus Eireann, GoBus and Bernard Kavanagh, particularly when Bus Eireann teamed up with GoBus before.

With Bus Eireann also set to launch the Belfast Express route this year in competition with the new Aircoach service, it seems there could be a joint effort between Bernard Kavanagh and Bus Eireann to restrict both of the new express routes by Aircoach. Not sure what a private would have to gain by teaming up with a state operator to take on another private though.

I saw a Bernard Kavanagh Coach parked up beside the Bus Eireann Coach stop at Parnell place in Cork the last day i was in Cork, it looked more like it was on hire to Bus Eireann and that the driver was on a break after a run from maybe Dublin or Galway?

bk

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

I can't see GoBus deciding to do a three way team-up though, they'd have to be very foolish to get involved with such a thing.

They sort of are already in Galway, aren't they?

In the past Brendan Kavangh has operated some coaches for them on contract on the Galway route. At least to fill gaps until they got their own coach.

They also have some sort of weird cross marketing deal with BE in Galway. However it has no real effect as you cant actually book tickets for the service on the BE website and they can't use the BE bus station. So no real benefit for them there.

Unless this new GoBus service operates from the BE bus station in Cork and you can actually book tickets for it online on the BE site, then I see little benefit for this to either GoBus or BE.

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

In any case back on topic, the Aicoach site has (finally) been updated and there is a new flyer to Download, which is much more in your face then the last one, so hopefully it will pick up a few new passengers. Hopefully when GoBus start it will result in a large war between GoBus and Aircoach which will only benefit the consumers. If we have a state company backing one or the other I don't think that is good in the long term of the industry.

New Aircoach Flyer here:
http://www.aircoach.ie/media/cork%20120906.pdf

Excellent flyer, much simpler and clearer.

However where they say "That's Rapid" I would replace it with "Just 3 hours".

Rapid is a weird choice of word IMO, it doesn't feel natural to me. Seems like it might have been written by a non native English speaker to me. And it would be better to specify the actual time. Rapid could mean anything, who knows, but Cork to Dublin in 3 hours sounds much better, a very good speed.

I also heard they now have radio ads down in Cork, so it seems they are ramping up advertising, which is good news.

Personally I think it would be more effective to directly target Irish Rail and BE with gorilla marketing tactics, but it seems they don't want to start a war.

But that seems foolish to me, because if the GoBus/BE rumour is correct, they are about to go to war.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Personally I think it would be more effective to directly target Irish Rail and BE with gorilla marketing tactics

yeh, and risk their staff receiving a barring order from IE/BE property should they use such gorilla marketing tactics, at least the ones you have been suggesting.

Aard

bk wrote: »

Rapid is a weird choice of word IMO, it doesn't feel natural to me.

I've got a feeling it's meant to be Dublin slang. Like "dah's rapih".

KCAccidental

end of the road wrote: »

yeh, and risk their staff receiving a barring order from IE/BE property should they use such gorilla marketing tactics, at least the ones you have been suggesting.

I'm sorry lads I have to intervene here. it's "guerilla" marketing not gorilla marketing. Unless aircoach plan on dressing their flyer people up

bk

end of the road wrote: »

yeh, and risk their staff receiving a barring order from IE/BE property should they use such gorilla marketing tactics, at least the ones you have been suggesting.

I suggested they stand on the public footpath outside the IE/BE stations, absolutely nothing BE/IE can do then.

Kent station in Cork would be prefect for this, just stand outside the front gate. Hire one or two students to wear those ad boards and hand out fliers. You also have the two massive, perfectly placed advertising billboards just across from the gates of Kent station, hire them.

The Bus station in Cork might be a little trickier as their are multiple entry points to it. But also many advertising points around it where you could put up your own bill boards.

Again target the paths that lead to it at the busiest times (Friday, Sunday peaks).

devnull

Bus Eireann to revise their 008 service in the coming weeks to extend it to Dublin Airport from the 24th June.

It's believed that stops at Abbeyleix, Durrow and Johnstown will be dropped, with the service running non stop between Dublin and Portlaiose, Portlaiose and Urlingford and some of the other stops being cut out after this.

SandyfordGuy

So much for those who bashed Aircoach for pulling the stopping service, we now have a public company who it appears is also pulling such services so it can compete with Aircoach, despite the fact the passenger numbers between the Town's are at an all time high because there is no competition anymore so they all switched to Bus Eireann.

There certainly was enough market for 6 stopping services a day via all the Town's, and enough for one operator, but it seems Bus Eireann have decided to change the most lucrative means. Personally I'd keep the stopping services and possibly run extra services on the more express route if I was Bus Eireann, as both should be profitable.

devnull

A touch harsh on Bus Eireann I think. If they are to be regarded as a commercial operator for the expressway unit then there is an argument that they should not be forced to serve such tiny town's. But I do see why some people are not happy.

The worst comment on the whole thing must go to the Sinn Fein TD in this article:
http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local/communities-stranded-by-bus-cutbacks-1-3946043

Danno

Cullohill is already on the route!

Only last month in Johnstown they upgraded the stop with a new sitting bench... not much good if it's lashing rain, but an improvement nonetheless!

bk

devnull wrote: »

A touch harsh on Bus Eireann I think. If they are to be regarded as a commercial operator for the expressway unit then there is an argument that they should not be forced to serve such tiny town's. But I do see why some people are not happy.

IMO BE can't have their cake and eat it. Either their are a semi state company that is subsidised and meets the needs of the entire community or they not.

I know BE say their Expressway services aren't subsidised, but I think we all know that there are many ways to cross subsidise. BE are a large organisation, with a large IT and marketing department and budget, much of which is subsidised. The Expressway services then benefit from these subsidies and the private operators struggle to compete with them in terms of IT and marketing.

And then of course BE has all their bus stations and depots, all paid for by the tax payer. That is a pretty massive subsidy right there.

If BE are going to go down this line and aggressively compete with the privates, then I'm of the opinion that the Expressway services should be privatised or at the very least spun off into a completely separate company from BE. The ownership of bus stations and depots should then transfer to control by the NTA. Then this new company and all the privates can have equal access to bus stations, etc.

That is the only fair way to do this.

devnull

There needs to be a better solution that is for sure, but you're right, if Bus Eireann wants expressway to be 100% commercial, they need to act totally Independent of all state assets, including Bus Stations etc. I think all the infrastructure needs to be put back in state hands, continue to allow PSO routes to use such facilities free of charge, but any non PSO routes, Bus Eireann would have to pay the same as any other non PSO operator and allow them in.

Meanwhile the Aircoach Westmoreland Street timetable still lists the stopping services, yet again a failure of information by the company and this is only basic stuff.

sobermechanic

double jeopardy wrote: »

Spotted brand new Volvo B12 Caetano with Airocach today at Ringsend.Wasnt in service but in white with aircoach branding on sides.Coach is un used by looks of it.Probably on trial for Cork/Dublin or Belfast or maybe its one of the many that were reported to be on the way since last march...
Rumour has it now that B Kavanaghs are going operating Cork/Dublin on behalf of Bus Eireann.Drivers are being recruited in Dublin anyway at moment for such service.....
Who knows yet we may hav a non stop to Cork every 15min the way things are going and who ever has the deepest pockets will come out winners...:p

I do believe it's a B11R on a Caetano Winner. One of the first ever built? This new engine will supersede the 9 and 13litre as the Jan 14 Euro 6 deadline approaches. The roof HVAC is not the usual Sutrak but looks like TK. I think this coach has been especially designed/constructed and is covered in First logo's. The interior seats are trimmed like the Aircoach Jonckheere's. Is this a a prototype for things to come? A cover for something in the UK? Who knows, I wish them well

devnull

It seems like you have been inside it? The fact it's been trimmed in Aircoach colors inside is surprising for a demo vehicle, suggests it was built with Aircoach in mind. What it is like apart from the seating being the same? Still decent legroom? any monitors or seat back tables etc? Does it have a toilet?

SandyfordGuy

Bus Eireann have launched their new timetable, they're now only half an hour slower than Aircoach and have extended to Dublin Airport from the 1st July 2012. It will now be called the X8 rather than the standard 8 number it used before. http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1340201794-8.pdf

I think it's a bit misleading to call it the X8 as it's pretty much the old 8 route with 3 or 4 stops removed and the 8 will not exist anymore so the argument can't be used it's an express version of the 8 as the 8 won't exist anymore. Calling it an express route is a little bit far fetched but its certainly better for people in the Town's and a welcome development for them, apart from the ones that have been dropped, considering the fact they will now have a faster service.

I would like to see the NTA clean up the numbering/branding systems used by all operators, in the future and perhaps regulate what operators can call their services. In my opinion anything with more than 5 stops or so shouldn't be allowed to be called express services. To me it's misleading and it's not just Bus Eireann who have been doing this, a number of privates on several routes have been doing the same.

parsi

In fairness Express is just a meaningless term nowadays often used to add glamour. Just like Dick Martin's Luxury coaches back in my schooldays.

One look at the timetable will show folk the reality of it all and folk will be looking at the timetable.

Aircoach is a catchy name but it isn't a flying bus.. silver dawn sounds good but it still travels along the Tarmac with all the other buses.

devnull

X8 is a simple marketing ploy. There is nothing to stop anyone from doing it, just like you cannot stop Bus Eireann using the Expressway name despite the fact some of the services under such banner are much slower than the competition. In the UK the ASA tightly regulates such things but a similar body doesn't exist in Ireland so it's a pointless discussion SandyfordGuy.

All it does prove is that Bus Eireann have a much better marketing approach than Aircoach as they at least have some idea of what they need to do when they have competition. Aircoach seem to be poor in this area and they may suffer as they don't seem to be cute enough to target their competitors more ruthlessly, like the way I assume Bus Eireann will now do. The only misleading advertising would be if say BE claimed they were the fastest when they are not anything short of that they can do and are entitled to do it.

What the big story here is that the people in the Town's now have a much better service and continue to have a bus to and from the airport. After the withdrawal of the Aircoach service they had to get Bus Eireann and then change onto a 747. It is good news for them and we should be happy that they have now access to a bus to the airport so soon after losing it

If people know about the Aircoach service, which is going to be part of the problem, they will would pick them from end to end no doubt as they're still quicker.

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

X8 is a simple marketing ploy. There is nothing to stop anyone from doing it, just like you cannot stop Bus Eireann using the Expressway name despite the fact some of the services under such banner are much slower than the competition. In the UK the ASA tightly regulates such things but a similar body doesn't exist in Ireland so it's a pointless discussion SandyfordGuy.

Not quite so,Devnull.

We have The Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland who have quite a significant role in overseeing the industry.

The ASAI have actually been involved in the Public Transport field already...once on the periphery involving a property developer in West Tallaght who was marketing apartments as being c.15 mins from the City Centre....the cheeky-chappie was using the outer boundary of the Luas Centre Zone as his "City Centre" .

The second case,from memory,involved Dublin Bus and the actual definition of City Centre/An Lár.

It appears the ASAI adjudicated the GPO was the accepted location for that description,a judgement which resulted in a somewhat rapid reorganization of many route scrolls to spell out the actual street name where the terminus is rather than the generic An Lár/City Centre of old.

bk

Half an hour slower and only 6 buses a day per direction, pretty pathetic compared to Aircoaches 17 buses a day and late night running.

Also Aircoach have far better locations at the airport, with dropoff right at the doors of both Terminal 1 and 2.

If only Aircoach could sort their IT, marketing and CS and perhaps get some toilet enabled buses, they would destroy BE and own this route.

Just goes to show how pathetic BE's service was between our two largest cities, only 6 buses a day and nothing before 8 or after 6. Truly awful.

My mother got the 10am Aircoach service from Cork to Dublin Airport yesterday. It arrived in Dublin in 2hours 50 minutes and at the airport at 3hours 20 mins, so excellent time. The driver was fantastic, helping her off the bus and get her bags out of the hold, outstanding guy and support. Big contrast to some of the complaints we have heard on this thread. More of this aircoach, big pat on the back.

Also the bus was three quarters full, very surprising for a 10am service from Cork on a Wednesday, so I guess word of mouth is spreading and the service is really taking off

My mother and friend were delighted with the service. This is interesting as they are both elderly and have the free pass. But they opted to pay for this instead of taking the train + taxi/747!!!

They were more then happy with the comfort of the bus and were delighted that the bus took them right to the departure doors of terminal 2.

LXFlyer

Perhaps that's all that the NTA would allow BE to operate? I don't know but it is a possibility.

devnull

The small adjustments to the timetable may be an indication also there is something in the reported possible team-up with GoBus that has been reported in a few places.

Many people said the X20 from Dublin to Galway was poor in comparison to GoBus who started the route and Citylink, who were lucky to get a license after operating illegally for some time, but it became clear that the team-up with GoBus was partly the reason for this.

bk

devnull wrote: »

Many people said the X20 from Dublin to Galway was poor in comparison to GoBus who started the route and Citylink, who were lucky to get a license after operating illegally for some time, but it became clear that the team-up with GoBus was partly the reason for this.

No, the team up between GoBus and BE in Galway was extremely limited. Just a little cross advertising, nothing more. The GoBus and Citlink services existed long before ths team up came into place.

devnull

I note that in the press, that now Aircoach pulling out of the Town's is being described as a 'breach' and Bus Eireann are being urged to step in.

http://www.avondhupress.ie/story5.html

dowlingm

As a native of the area, the Avondhu paper and Fermoy Council are well paired... :rolleyes: The former is grand for local GAA results and pictures of the latest Confirmations and senior citizens parties, the latter I'm not sure if it's good for much.

devnull

More press:
http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local/south-laois-battle-to-keep-bus-service-1-3981858