Cyclists on South Ring (suicide maniacs)

Diabhalta

I will start with a simple question: Are they on suicide mission or just completely retarded?

Cycling on a road where is no hard shoulder (that few hunderd meters in Douglas) and cars are going 80-100 kmh is really insane. I hope they are officialy not allowed to use their bicycles there (well, in Ireland you never know).

Today I saw two guys cycling next to each other (and chatting) on South Ring Road. I was in the fast lane when I saw bunch of cars slowing down rapidly because of these two - it was right after the exit to Turners Cross (southbound). This is very, very dangerous and utterly stupid.

Now what to do? Ring the Gardaí, or perhaps contact the City Council first? I think these guards on motorbikes should maybe just spare some time, wait on the side of the road and stop everyone on bicycle.

Aka Ishur

Short answer: Its an N road. Of course they are allowed. Until it becomes a motorway cyclists have as much a right to use the road safely as an 8mph scooter or a tractor or horse and carriage.

Diabhalta

Wow, this is absolutely amazing.

So why there are cars beeping from time to time? Probably there is something wrong when everyone is going 80-100 kmh and there is a cyclist who is going 10kmh along the barrier trying to kill himself.

This has absolutely nothing to do with rules of the road, this is a matter of logical thinking. You CANNOT ride your bike on South Ring, because you can get killed and saying: "drivers should be careful" isn't an argument. Try to tell this to a lorry driver who is trying to squeeze himself between the cyclist and the cars in the fast lane.

Jumpy

The lorry driver should not be trying to squeeze, he should be overtaking in the overtaking lane or the incorrectly labelled "fast" lane as you put it. The cyclist uses a lane, not just "part" of a lane.

Also if the road is 100km/h thats the "limit" not the "target"

Aka Ishur

You asked the question are they allowed. I answered.

Why cars are beeping? Maybe they made they same incorrect assumptions as yourself?

Anyone driving should be capable enough to avoid cyclists on that road. You have fantastic line of sight and great surface. Compare that to a situation where you are on a R road, 80kph limit, unkempt ditches, no hard shoulder, no 'fast' lane (that's actually the passing lane by the way). I know where I would rather encounter the cyclists as a driver.

invinciblePRSTV

It'll probably take the death of a cyclist or 2 on the SR for restrictions similar to the one's in place in the tunnel to be put on the soon to be N40.

Of course there's no guaranteeing any potential restrictions on cyclists using the SR will actually be enforced. Over in the C&T forum the regulars will tell you about the cyclists using the M8 daily and the disinterest shown by Glanmire Gardai in preventing them from doing so.

My favourite anecdote is coming across a few years ago a family of cyclists - dad, mum and a couple of kids - coming down the sliproad and onto the 120km/hr Ballincollig bypass. Madness!

Diabhalta

Guys, you must be joking or you never drove a car.

Jumpy: Cyclist is very slow and 80 or 100kmh is a very high speed when you compare them. Do you realize, that there can be very (and very often is) high amount of traffic in both lanes. Which means that driver has no time to change lanes when he sees a cyclist, therefore he is literally squeezing himself between cyclist and cars in the fast lane.

100 kmh is the limit, but reality is: slow lane 80-100, fast lane 100-130. I use South Ring for almost four years now (every day) and believe me I know what I'm talking about. Other thing is distance between cars - sometimes it looks more like a looong train than cars on the road.

Aka Ishur: I asked a following question: Are they on suicide mission or just completely retarded? I didn't ask if they are allowed. They are maybe all together (retards allowed to go on suicide mission).

I will tell you why are they beeping: they are following their logical thinking and their first thought is: wtf is he doing here? Is he trying to kill himself????

Fantastic line of sight - oh my satan this is so narrow-minded. I will put a camera in my car and show you how fantastic the line of sight is around 5PM any mid-week afternoon. There are spots where is no hard shoulder on South Ring as well. Fast lane and passing lane is the same thing - You are going faster that the cars in the left/slow lane so you are passing them.

invinciblePRSTV: that is the worst scenario but after this something will definitely happen. Media attention, few importatn people will made a statement and cyclists will be banned from SR.

Aka Ishur

So any place a cyclist has been killed should be closed to cyclists? I 100% agree that cyclists should be nowhere near motorways or in the tunnel, and it drives me nuts when I see them do it. To talk of banning them from a very good N road is ridiculous imo.

This conversation may well be very soon moot in any case as I expect, once the flyover upgrades are completed along with the dunkettle interchange, the south ring will be upgraded to a motorway, where cyclists will indeed be barred.

Diabhalta wrote: »

.....

Well I have been living in Mahon for about 10 years now, i reckon I've been driving the road longer than your good self. Oh and for fecks sake for the third time its the overtaking lane not a 'fast' lane.

Jumpy

15 years of driving
15 years of cycling

If the driver has no time to change lanes then they need to slow down to the cyclists speed until a lane space becomes available. If you do not have time to do this then you are driving in an unsafe manner.

This is not rocket science.

This reminds me of all the people complaining about how they cant stick to the speed limit of 30 in Dublin because they find it too hard to stay at that speed without watching their speedo.

Either a high number of Irish cant actually drive, or there is a lot of you that dont mind embarrassing yourselves on public forums by admitting as such.

TheChizler

While it's perfectly fine for cyclists to do that I cant see me ever doing it myself! Purely cause I don't trust other drivers when I'm in a car, let alone on a bike, to keep the correct distance from me and overtake correctly. It takes guts and a lot of confidence in your awareness to cycle in a prominent position on a large road.

Victor

Diabhalta wrote: »

Jumpy: Cyclist is very slow and 80 or 100kmh is a very high speed when you compare them. Do you realize, that there can be very (and very often is) high amount of traffic in both lanes. Which means that driver has no time to change lanes when he sees a cyclist, therefore he is literally squeezing himself between cyclist and cars in the fast lane.

You need to be able to stop in the distance that you can see to be clear.

Janedoe10

''If the driver has no time to change lanes then they need to slow down to the cyclists speed until a lane space becomes available. If you do not have time to do this then you are driving in an unsafe manner." you try and slow down to the cyclist speed and u are blown off the road on the south ring . That's how pile ups happen .

Aka Ishur

Janedoe10 wrote: »

''If the driver has no time to change lanes then they need to slow down to the cyclists speed until a lane space becomes available. If you do not have time to do this then you are driving in an unsafe manner." you try and slow down to the cyclist speed and u are blown off the road on the south ring . That's how pile ups happen .

Pile-ups happen when you do not allow enough space between yourself and the car in front. If you cannot stop in that space in an emergency you need to leave more. There is no other reason. Its really quite simple.

invinciblePRSTV

Aka Ishur wrote: »

So any place a cyclist has been killed should be closed to cyclists? I 100% agree that cyclists should be nowhere near motorways or in the tunnel, and it drives me nuts when I see them do it. To talk of banning them from a very good N road is ridiculous imo.

This conversation may well be very soon moot in any case as I expect, once the flyover upgrades are completed along with the dunkettle interchange, the south ring will be upgraded to a motorway, where cyclists will indeed be barred.

Diabhalta wrote: »

.....

Well I have been living in Mahon for about 10 years now, i reckon I've been driving the road longer than your good self. Oh and for fecks sake for the third time its the overtaking lane not a 'fast' lane.

If you think its a good idea for cyclists to be prevented from using a 120 km/hr motorway or a tunnel with no H/S then surely its the logical thing to believe also that the South Ring - complete with sections where there's either no H/S or has a 120 km/hr limit - should also have restrictions on cyclists using it?

Aka Ishur

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

If you think its a good idea for cyclists to be prevented from using a 120 km/hr motorway or a tunnel with no H/S then surely its the logical thing to believe also that the South Ring - complete with sections where there's either no H/S or has a 120 km/hr limit - should also have restrictions on cyclists using it?

Its nothing to do with the hard shoulder (as I said all the regional rds in the country have no hard shoulder) but I do believe that the increased buffeting from HGVs and even lighter vehicles within the confines of the tunnel present a real danger. I don't think any of the N25 has a 120Kph limit however I don't like that the Ballincollig bypass is 120kph. I think it is too fast for the traffic although it is a fantastic rd I wish it was either brought up to motorway standards for driver (and cyclist) safety or left at 100kph until the other sections mentioned above were completed.

At the end of the day though it is up to drivers to ensure there is space enough that unanticipated obstacles such as debris, cyclists, tractors or horse and carts, do not pose a danger. The road has been that way for 12 years. Cyclists have been using it since it opened. There hasn't been fatalities as it is a safe road as long as you drive in a safe manner.

(Incidentally the original plans for the tunnel included cyclist and pedestrian tubes, but these were abandoned in an effort to cut costs)

evilivor

Diabhalta wrote: »

Wow, this is absolutely amazing.

So why there are cars beeping from time to time? Probably there is something wrong when everyone is going 80-100 kmh and there is a cyclist who is going 10kmh along the barrier trying to kill himself.

This has absolutely nothing to do with rules of the road, this is a matter of logical thinking. You CANNOT ride your bike on South Ring, because you can get killed and saying: "drivers should be careful" isn't an argument. Try to tell this to a lorry driver who is trying to squeeze himself between the cyclist and the cars in the fast lane.

You need to learn to drive better, your first consideration needs to be how your driving effects other road users.

Also, you may want to re-learn the Rules of the Roads; no such thing as a "fast lane ".

Ludo

Diabhalta wrote: »

Today I saw two guys cycling next to each other (and chatting) on South Ring Road. I was in the fast lane when I saw bunch of cars slowing down rapidly because of these two - it was right after the exit to Turners Cross (southbound). This is very, very dangerous and utterly stupid.

Diabhalta wrote: »

100 kmh is the limit, but reality is: slow lane 80-100, fast lane 100-130. I use South Ring for almost four years now (every day) and believe me I know what I'm talking about. Other thing is distance between cars - sometimes it looks more like a looong train than cars on the road.

But you don't know the name of the road...it is the South Link at the Turners Cross exit. Not the South Ring

In all fairness, drivers should be very careful on the South Ring at all times and you should always expect to have to slow down quickly. There are ALWAYS tractors or diggers on it causing mayhem.
I fully agree that it is a stupid road to cycle on but not illegal.
I saw someone walking along the South Ring last week between Rochestown Park Hotel and Douglas just as you pass Tesco where there is no hard shoulder...crazy!

corkcomp

While I would'nt personally cycle on the south link, there are others who have to in order to get to work / college etc and as others pointed out it's perfectly legal to do so. Comparing the differential in speeds is'nt too relevant when you consider most main roads are 80 - 100Km limits and plenty people cycle on them. I know of one road which is out in the country, wide enough main road (road) where the limit is 80km but the road is full of turns, far more dangerous than the south link IMO.

Ludo

corkcomp wrote: »

While I would'nt personally cycle on the south link, there are others who have to in order to get to work / college etc and as others pointed out it's perfectly legal to do so.

Why would anyone HAVE to cycle on the South Link? There are other roads and it can very easily be avoided.

corkcomp

Ludo wrote: »

Why would anyone HAVE to cycle on the South Link? There are other roads and it can very easily be avoided.

In reality all the surrounding roads would be as dangerous during peak traffic times. Cyclists might be a nuisance but they have a right to be on the road and are not breaking any law. The main issue on the south link is a lot of drivers dont have a clue how to navigate what is a relatively straight forward road layout and will try to overtake a cyclist with another car parallel to them which isn't the correct thing to do, no matter how slow the bike is.

Ludo

I fully agree with all you say except for the bit about surrounding roads being as dangerous. The surrounding roads have much slower moving traffic (especially at peak times) so if the worst does happen you may not be badly hurt. If the worst happens on the South Ring you are dead.

saa

Just because cars were beeping does not mean they were doing something wrong, I know how to use a roundabout and I am very courteous but I was going through one and a 4x4 driver (ha no surprises) started beeping me because I was going at the speed of a cyclist on a bike, what did he expect me to do learn my lesson and never go on the road again so I'll never hold him up by a few seconds its not like slow drivers cyclist don't have a choice. Anyway I think the cycling side by side chatting thing is a bit stupid in certain situations.

kuro2k

I use the south ring as a motorist and cyclist and tbh it’s the level of driver skill/knowledge in Ireland that is the problem, Its only when you start to use the road as a cyclist do you realise the arrogance of most motorists.

It’s true that it is perfectly legal to cycle on the south ring but it should be remembered that when the south link opened originally in the late 80's early 90's cyclist were not allowed to use it, they used to have large signs where the park and ride is now located stating that cyclist were not allowed. They took them down after about 2 years........

invinciblePRSTV

Aka Ishur wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

If you think its a good idea for cyclists to be prevented from using a 120 km/hr motorway or a tunnel with no H/S then surely its the logical thing to believe also that the South Ring - complete with sections where there's either no H/S or has a 120 km/hr limit - should also have restrictions on cyclists using it?

Its nothing to do with the hard shoulder (as I said all the regional rds in the country have no hard shoulder) but I do believe that the increased buffeting from HGVs and even lighter vehicles within the confines of the tunnel present a real danger. I don't think any of the N25 has a 120Kph limit however I don't like that the Ballincollig bypass is 120kph. I think it is too fast for the traffic although it is a fantastic rd I wish it was either brought up to motorway standards for driver (and cyclist) safety or left at 100kph until the other sections mentioned above were completed.

A portion of the N25 section of the Ballincollig BP has a 120 km/hr speed limit.

The Ballincollig BP does not need to be "brought up to motorway standards" in any way shape or form as it was built to motorway standards. The only difference in terms of design between it and M roads is one has green signs and no restrictions the other has blue signs & restrictions. (In fact the BP is better designed then many older stretches of the M network).

I have to lol at you saying its "too fast" for cyclists, proof again that it, along with the rest of the SR, should be restricted use.

And lastly, the chief difference between regional N roads and the SR is that most, if not all, regional N roads, as well as most of the interurban Motorways, carry a fraction of the traffic which the SR does. It's a nonsense that a major urban arterial route with AADTs in the high 5 digit category does not have appropriate restrictions in place like the Dublin & Limerick ring roads do by virtue of their M status.

Hopefully like you forecast, the NRA will either place restrictions or change its classification of the N40 to M when the flyovers are complete.

hoodwinked

doesn't the south link (the road from town the out to the kinsale road roundabout) have a sign that states no pedestrians and no cyclists other then motorbikes?


i was sure it did and i don't think it was early 90's otherwise im older then i thought


also if i had the choice to cycle the douglas roads with footpaths, (and now cycle lanes) 50km/h speedlimit and buses going slow and stopping often, into town or the link with no footpaths, 100km/h speed limit, with concrete walls on either side, and trucks passing me at high speed not stopping/slowing. i know which one i see as less crazy!

Milly33

well said hoodwinked...

Think tis madness that cyclist are allowed to use the link or any other major road. fine if there is a big cycle or soemthing like that on but otherwise no..There are loads of other routes they can use. It is bad enough that drivers seem to be getting worse in Cork not to mind having to watch out for cyclist on the link...

Diabhalta

Jumpy wrote: »

15 years of driving
15 years of cycling

If the driver has no time to change lanes then they need to slow down to the cyclists speed until a lane space becomes available. If you do not have time to do this then you are driving in an unsafe manner.

This is not rocket science.

This reminds me of all the people complaining about how they cant stick to the speed limit of 30 in Dublin because they find it too hard to stay at that speed without watching their speedo.

Either a high number of Irish cant actually drive, or there is a lot of you that dont mind embarrassing yourselves on public forums by admitting as such.

1. Fully loaded lorry will NEVER slow down safely to the speed of cyclist. That is pure fact. And slowing down in fully loaded Nissan Micra (for example) on 50 meters from 100kmh to 10kmh is definitely more like a stunt than driving a car safely.

2. Me not being sure about cyclists not/allowed on South Ring doesn't mean I can't drive car properly. I drive cars for 10 years and I drove many different cars in many different countries all over Europe. I had two minor accidents in my life and yes, both happened in this country (what a surprise isn't it?). Irish drivers are the far worst I've seen in my driving career. What I see on daily basis is actually very sad and stupid. I'm always worried when I go for a spin in my classic car who (and where) will put me and my beloved car in danger.

Irish drivers are very funny topic on few foreign forums (or facebook) where people living in Ireland are chatting about them and laughing on situations described by others. Driving through roundabout is more like an adventure than standard process, indicators are used rarely (same mirrors) and loads of people think their car is also a phone booth.

evilivor wrote: »

You need to learn to drive better, your first consideration needs to be how your driving effects other road users.

Also, you may want to re-learn the Rules of the Roads; no such thing as a "fast lane ".

I don't need to. Officially there is no such thing as "fast lane", because the Rules of the road said so and that what everyone in this coutry is thinking, but it doesn't automatically mean it isn't a fast lane. You go faster in that right lane than cars in the left lane (well, some people have that great ability to go 83kmh when overtaking a car which is going 81kmh), therefore you can call it fast lane.

btw. rest of this planet calls it fast lane, so it si a fast lane no matter how you call it :cool:

Ludo wrote: »

But you don't know the name of the road...it is the South Link at the Turners Cross exit. Not the South Ring

You neither: it is South City Link Road... Let's call it: "That thing from skyscraper (lol) to Kinsale rd. r-about.

Tomk1

Aka Ishur wrote: »

(Incidentally the original plans for the tunnel included cyclist and pedestrian tubes, but these were abandoned in an effort to cut costs)

I think this is the all important point, whatever anyone thinks, under the NRA cyclist are not even 2nd class road users, they're non-existent road users. But all these forum debates have a split of car-users vs cyclists,.. Car-users..too fast... Rules of the road...etc.
The real problem is, provisions are not provided for the non-car users by the council, and rather than both groups getting onto the council/local-TD's to do something about it, just bicker instead.

As far as rules of the road, cyclist should know them but they are not legally made to know them.

corkcomp

Diabhalta wrote: »

1. Fully loaded lorry will NEVER slow down safely to the speed of cyclist. That is pure fact. And slowing down in fully loaded Nissan Micra (for example) on 50 meters from 100kmh to 10kmh is definitely more like a stunt than driving a car safely.
.

I have to call BS on some of that, a fully loaded artic has the breaking capabilities to stop that weight and trust me they can stop pretty quickly. You seem to be missing the point that the lorry / micra driver should actually be able to see the cyclist about a KM away on the road in question, if they cant they shouldnt be driving, simples! If a bike pulls out in front of a lorry at close range well then the consequences are obvious but on a straight well lit road the driver should be paying attention to surroundings.

Diabhalta

corkcomp wrote: »

I have to call BS on some of that, a fully loaded artic has the breaking capabilities to stop that weight and trust me they can stop pretty quickly. You seem to be missing the point that the lorry / micra driver should actually be able to see the cyclist about a KM away on the road in question, if they cant they shouldnt be driving, simples! If a bike pulls out in front of a lorry at close range well then the consequences are obvious but on a straight well lit road the driver should be paying attention to surroundings.

Should be able but, sometimes you cannot see a cyclist for a KM because there is hundred of cars ahead. And on South Ring there is sometimes huge amount of cars where you cannot see a cyclist, believe me.

Look at this picture. You go eastbound (in a car) where is a slight turn to right, there is a huge lorry in front of you and he is passing a cyclist, in a second you have a very unpleasant surprise. This is very dangerous no matter what the rules say about cyclists allowed to cycle there.

Diabhalta

Diabhalta wrote: »

I will start with a simple question: Are they on suicide mission or just completely retarded?

Cycling on a road where is no hard shoulder (that few hunderd meters in Douglas) and cars are going 80-100 kmh is really insane. I hope they are officialy not allowed to use their bicycles there (well, in Ireland you never know)...............

They are neither on a suicide mission or retarded, perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the rules of the road etc before asking are people retarded.

At a guess I would think you don't cycle or drive so really have next to no clue about the issue.