Fiscal Treaty Referendum.....How will you vote?

antoobrien

Happyman42 wrote: »

Pity that he and his generation hadn't been so conscientious for the last 40 years! :rolleyes:

A little food for thought (or denial) for the short of memory.

His generation voted in the governments that put in place the economic framework that created the expansion of the 1990s.

Our generation voted in the governments that created the boom and bust.

Happyman42

antoobrien wrote: »

His generation voted in the governments that put in place the economic framework that created the expansion of the 1990s.

Charlie? :rolleyes:

EURATS

dvpower wrote: »

EURATS wrote: »

I don't know. You tell me!!! Are you not one of the people that has an answer for everything?

Because the Boards poll doesn't involve any sort of polling methodology at all, has a very narrow sample base and a much smaller sample.

So you work for RED C? The only thing people have in common here is a computer and access to the Internet. Everybody is free to join and vote. Wouldn't call that sample base narrow!

later12

EURATS wrote: »

So you work for RED C? The only thing people have in common here is a computer and access to the Internet. Everybody is free to join and vote. Wouldn't call that sample base narrow!

Yeah but Red C don't just gather the opinions of anyone who can muster the energy to click on Option 1 or Option 2 when happening across it on the internet.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that the real result will look nothing like the poll above.

antoobrien

Happyman42 wrote: »

Charlie? :rolleyes:

Whatever else he did wrong, he is the basis for what we did right (for a while). He changed the tax regime, started the regeneration of Dublin city center, started spending money on infrastructure, all of which brought in international investors bringing about the prosperity that (eventually) followed.

EURATS

later12 wrote: »

EURATS wrote: »

So you work for RED C? The only thing people have in common here is a computer and access to the Internet. Everybody is free to join and vote. Wouldn't call that sample base narrow!

Yeah but Red C don't just gather the opinions of anyone who can muster the energy to click on Option 1 or Option 2 when happening across it on the internet.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that the real result will look nothing like the poll above.

It isn't just the poll in this thread. Polls are just indicators. Nothing more. Nothing less.

dvpower

EURATS wrote: »

So you work for RED C? The only thing people have in common here is a computer and access to the Internet. Everybody is free to join and vote. Wouldn't call that sample base narrow!

I've no doubt that if RedC qualified their sample to Boards.ie users, the results would be different.

thomthomdrum

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Have you noticed how Ireland is depicted at the poker table as the only player with no chips... how accurate!

Did not notice that no )

Did notice that my post seems to be missing however, or else I am doing something wrong?

Is there something wrong with posting youtube clips?

meglome

thomthomdrum wrote: »

Did not notice that no )

Did notice that my post seems to be missing however, or else I am doing something wrong?

Is there something wrong with posting youtube clips?

It's in the charter that you can't post youtube clips without discussing them, this being a discussion forum an' all. So to answer your question... Yes.

Happyman42

antoobrien wrote: »

Whatever else he did wrong, he is the basis for what we did right (for a while). He changed the tax regime, started the regeneration of Dublin city center, started spending money on infrastructure, all of which brought in international investors bringing about the prosperity that (eventually) followed.

Brown envelopes, planning ignored, personal greed, rampant senses of entitlement. His fall from grace revealed just what the culture of FF has done to this country. Have you been living in a bubble?
I wish him and his ilk never existed, they built a society based on falseness, aided and abetted by Brussels. We are now in payback mode and will be for generations and still we keep digging.

antoobrien

Happyman42 wrote: »

Brown envelopes, planning ignored, personal greed, rampant senses of entitlement. His fall from grace revealed just what the culture of FF has done to this country. Have you been living in a bubble?

No, quite the contrary. I just don't feel the need to point out the bleeding obvious, merely the conveniently overlooked.

Happyman42 wrote: »

I wish him and his ilk never existed, they built a society based on falseness, aided and abetted by Brussels. We are now in payback mode and will be for generations and still we keep digging.

Can't destroy the bad without also destroying the good. It may well be that without charlie we wouldn't have had Mahon et al, but I doubt it (FG seem to have been just as bad). It's also worth pointing out Charlie's predecessor, who was an economist, bailed out AIB and didn't make any inroads into creating a better economy (largely thanks to labour's unwillingness to cut). Go Figure.

thomthomdrum

meglome wrote: »

It's in the charter that you can't post youtube clips without discussing them, this being a discussion forum an' all. So to answer your question... Yes.

A tad strict.......

I thought such a video would have simply added to the discussion.........

Scofflaw

thomthomdrum wrote: »

A tad strict.......

I thought such a video would have simply added to the discussion.........

Sorry - yes, video only posts are usually deleted. Not everyone will (or can) watch a video, so it doesn't really further the discussion unless the poster can summarise the contents - and discuss them. Otherwise we might as well all just watch TV.

moderately,
Scofflaw

antoobrien

thomthomdrum wrote: »

A tad strict.......

I thought such a video would have simply added to the discussion.........

Various people may not have access to youtube (work firewalls, slow speeds etc) so it's considered unfair to readers and slightly lazy on the poster's behalf (for not explaining their pov and why the video appeals to them).

Rick_nl

Since I am not Irish I seem to be unable to vote on a matter of EUROPEAN interest and importance. With the stance that this government takes one should think EVERYBODY in this country would be allowed to vote for their future in Ireland.

alas....

So I will not be voting. I WILL however - and am doing that on a daily basis - try to convince all the Irish people to put in their NO vote. As I think the whole idea where an UNELECTED COMMERCIAL CORPORATION can demand money within 7 days from governments without any chance of protesting or declining the DEMAND, and with no legal ( in their system) option to oppose this, is a blueprint for robbing Europe blind, pushing a whole continent into fiscal ( and who knows) physical slavery.

I will NEVER surrender to any of this.
It has got NOTHING to do with the money. It is to do with control in every way thinkable.

If a "NO" can help fight this, then I will urge everyone to say NO.

thomthomdrum

antoobrien wrote: »

Various people may not have access to youtube (work firewalls, slow speeds etc) so it's considered unfair to readers and slightly lazy on the poster's behalf (for not explaining their pov and why the video appeals to them).

Thats fair enough. I did not want to present it as a personal POV so did not discuss it as such. It was simply a video I viewed recently which I thought was interesting and thought that those in this discussion would be interested in it too. But ineffect, as I see now, I was not joining the discussion.

For anyone that is interested nit was a video called punk econoimics 4 by David McWilliams and in it he was outlining how Germany benifits from the current crisis in the EU and trys to control it in certian ways. He effectively suggests that if the citizens of countries such as Ireland have issue with the EU and the current ecomomic crisis that they should us their voice via the ballot box to say so. Go to youtube and search for punk econoimics 4 if interested in seeing how David McWilliams puts forward this argument

Scofflaw

Rick_nl wrote: »

Since I am not Irish I seem to be unable to vote on a matter of EUROPEAN interest and importance. With the stance that this government takes one should think EVERYBODY in this country would be allowed to vote for their future in Ireland.

alas....

So I will not be voting. I WILL however - and am doing that on a daily basis - try to convince all the Irish people to put in their NO vote. As I think the whole idea where an UNELECTED COMMERCIAL CORPORATION can demand money within 7 days from governments without any chance of protesting or declining the DEMAND, and with no legal ( in their system) option to oppose this, is a blueprint for robbing Europe blind, pushing a whole continent into fiscal ( and who knows) physical slavery.

I will NEVER surrender to any of this.
It has got NOTHING to do with the money. It is to do with control in every way thinkable.

If a "NO" can help fight this, then I will urge everyone to say NO.

Since the vote to call in capital is by unanimous agreement of the governments who will then have to provide it, your fears are entirely unfounded.

I daresay you're highly relieved.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Happyman42

antoobrien wrote: »

[/B]




Can't destroy the bad without also destroying the good.

You weren't listening, I wish him and his ilk never existed. The culture that allowed them to rape and plunder was not some natural progression. They made a concious decision to do that, and they facilitated that type of 'politics' and politician here.
Prosperity would have come anyway as it did across Europe and the western world, we didn't need the greed merchants to take advantage.

Rick_nl

Scofflaw wrote: »

Since the vote to call in capital is by unanimous agreement of the governments who will then have to provide it, your fears are entirely unfounded.

I daresay you're highly relieved.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I will be relieved if the ESM and it's caretakers have been taken out of Europe. And in view of the government we have had and currently HAVE I would say, my fears aren't big enough.....

Governments will only be a decorative status of a bunch of people telling the country what their masters have told them to say. They will not have any influence on the playfield - as there will be no playfield.

In fact this is already happening... THAT is the real danger.
It will be Do or Die.

wilson10

The majority of No voter won't have a clue what they're voting for, they'll be voting no because the government parties ask them to vote yes, as in the last referendum they voted no and then wondered why the bankers responsible for the mess couldn't be brought before a parliamentary committee to face the music and explain themselves to the electorate.

I heard on more than one occasion "nobody told me that's what it was about".

Ignorance is bliss.

One of the reasons I'll be voting Yes is to vote against the Libertas crowd who are going round tearing down Yes posters and replacing them with their own.

carveone

rick_nl. Nl for Nederland no doubt. I'm sure this has no relevance:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/22/us-eurozone-esm-dutch-idUSBRE84L1BE20120522

We'll send our MEPs over and help you decide on Sep 12th

Scofflaw wrote: »

Since the vote to call in capital is by unanimous agreement of the governments who will then have to provide it, your fears are entirely unfounded.

It's always the capital call isn't it. If someone says: OMG I've found this horrible feature in the ESM, it's either the "immune from legal prosecution" bit or the capital call bit.

Happyman42

wilson10 wrote: »

One of the reasons I'll be voting Yes is to vote against the Libertas crowd who are going round tearing down Yes posters and replacing them with their own.

I'm voting No because FG used a horrible font. :rolleyes:

carveone

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'm voting No because FG used a horrible font. :rolleyes:

If it was Comic Sans they'd have deserved it for inflicting such pain on the populace

I haven't seen any pulling down of Yes posters around my place but it's such a blizzard at this stage I can' t tell...

PopeBuckfastXVI

carveone wrote: »

It's always the capital call isn't it. If someone says: OMG I've found this horrible feature in the ESM, it's either the "immune from legal prosecution" bit or the capital call bit.

It's this season's 'self-amending treaty', dahling...

thomthomdrum

wilson10 wrote: »

Ignorance is bliss.

One of the reasons I'll be voting Yes is to vote against the Libertas crowd who are going round tearing down Yes posters and replacing them with their own.

Bit of an ignorant reason for doing so, no?

Should you not vote based on the overall issue at hand and what this treaty means for Europe and Ireland, as opposed to a precived dislike for a particular group?

People voting Yes simply because Shinners or Libertas are on the No side is quite ignorant.........in saying that you may have other more logical reasons for your way of voting........but the above reason is frankly stupid......

pmcb

if Enda Kenny isn't confident enough to step up to the plate to debate the issue, then as an undecided voter.... I'm not confident enough to vote YES....

meglome

thomthomdrum wrote: »

Bit of an ignorant reason for doing so, no?

Should you not vote based on the overall issue at hand and what this treaty means for Europe and Ireland, as opposed to a precived dislike for a particular group?

People voting Yes simply because Shinners or Libertas are on the No side is quite ignorant.........in saying that you may have other more logical reasons for your way of voting........but the above reason is frankly stupid......

Personally I'd see it that anyone voting for reasons other than the actual contents of the treaty is a bad idea, worse it's probably a very foolish idea.

That said if I had to base my vote on who lied the least that would have to be the Yes campaign. When you've got SF, The ULA, Libertas and various anti-government/anti-EU nutters on a particular side I'd have to strongly wonder about that side.

meglome

pmcb wrote: »

if Enda Kenny isn't confident enough to step up to the plate to debate the issue, then as an undecided voter.... I'm not confident enough to vote YES....

Of all the people promoting a Yes you need Enda Kenny to convince you? really? He's the best person to do that? Really?

swampgas

pmcb wrote: »

if Enda Kenny isn't confident enough to step up to the plate to debate the issue, then as an undecided voter.... I'm not confident enough to vote YES....

It is unfortunate that Enda Kenny is a poor communicator, at least to the general public.

However - it is still up to you to decide what's best for the country. This treaty was negotiated in good faith by the Eurozone countries, this referendum should really just be a rubber stamp as our government have already approved of it.

Given that our Government negotiated it, approved it, and want it enacted, it really is up to the NO side to prove that it is bad for the country.

What I'm trying to say is that the default position should be Yes, not No.

Scofflaw

Rick_nl wrote: »

I will be relieved if the ESM and it's caretakers have been taken out of Europe. And in view of the government we have had and currently HAVE I would say, my fears aren't big enough.....

Governments will only be a decorative status of a bunch of people telling the country what their masters have told them to say. They will not have any influence on the playfield - as there will be no playfield.

In fact this is already happening... THAT is the real danger.
It will be Do or Die.

If this is going to turn out to be a "they're all just puppets..Goldman Sachs...Bilderberg" thing, please save the screen space.

cheers,
Scofflaw