Any concrete costed measures for reducing €16 billon hole in the public finances?

relax carry on

Given that there appears to be a little bit of reluctance in paying a yearly property tax; do any of the arm chair economists on boards have any concrete costed measures for reducing €16 billon hole in the public finances? Try to keep away from frothing at the mouth comments about bankers, the IMF etc. Just curious as to what people would do for the economy if they were in govt. When replying could you indicate how much your measures would reduce the 16 billon by and if you think any of your proposals would encounter opposition.

mikemac1

Foreign aid

2011 636 million

Borrowing money to give it away in madness

In a few years we can start again but not now

Opposition? It's a whole industry, there are officers and administrators who earn their salaries from this money.
So I'm afraid they will have to lose their jobs or be deployed somewhere else.

howsyourtusk

Tax the rich.

AboutTwoFiddy

relax carry on wrote: »

Given that there appears to be a little bit of reluctance in paying a yearly property tax; do any of the arm chair economists on boards have any concrete costed measures for reducing €16 billon hole in the public finances? Try to keep away from frothing at the mouth comments about bankers, the IMF etc. Just curious as to what people would do for the economy if they were in govt. When replying could you indicate how much your measures would reduce the 16 billon by and if you think any of your proposals would encounter opposition.

Household Tax would only raise €160 million, not €16 billion.

msg11

No more of this allowances bollix. The TD's get paid well, so take it out of there own money. Cars, pens and rulers the lot if they need it that badly they can pay themselves.

Tipp Man

Public sector wages (inc pensions)

Cut 10% save 1.2 billion
Cut 20% save 2.4 billion

Social Welfare

Cut total bill by 10% save 1.9 billion
cut total bill by 20% save 3.8 billion

Spending on these 2 items is simply out of control and way above what we can afford

Aka Ishur

relax carry on wrote: »

Given that there appears to be a little bit of reluctance in paying a yearly property tax; do any of the arm chair economists on boards have any concrete costed measures for reducing €16 billon hole in the public finances? Try to keep away from frothing at the mouth comments about bankers, the IMF etc. Just curious as to what people would do for the economy if they were in govt. When replying could you indicate how much your measures would reduce the 16 billon by and if you think any of your proposals would encounter opposition.

Jaysus Enda could you not ask your 'special advisors' for ideas!

drunkmonkey

howsyourtusk wrote: »

Tax the rich.

Shoot the poor or sell them off to work for struggling farmers in Africa.

Wibbs

Reduce public service costs. Revisit the Croke park agreement, specifically in the higher and mid wage bands. Contrary to popular many many PS workers are at the lower pay grade so leave them be. Streamline/combine PS depts. This will require lay offs but that's the position we're in. Streamline councils, by reducing their number and the number of councilors. Massively reduce, even stop the overseas aid payments(at last count that would save over tree times what the household tax will bring in). Tighten up payments to "sick" banks. Major overhaul of the SW system. Look at simple things like urban, particularly suburban street lighting. Switch off every second or third streetlight. That'll ease the bills. Kill all vanity projects, except those that will provide provable returns(IE green energy projects that actually work). In the building of such projects make sure costings are real and if a company over runs such costings fine them for it. That's just off the top of my head.

talkinyite

Legalise drugs :pac:

donvito99

Fine everyone who doesn't pay the household tax, say, €1600? €16000? Take their house, flog it? Problem solved.

foxyboxer

Present a repayment plan to the Troika designed to reduce the interest repayments allowing a return to the Bond Markets.

Wait for a negative response.

Negotiate a Loan from China for €16bn at a reduced interest rate allowing a return to the markets.

Clear the 16bn debt with the Troika.

Learn a valuable lesson. Hopefully.

The finer points of the eurozone treaties probably already prevent this but with the fiscal treaty compact coming up we need any cards we can get.

mikemac1

Those Spaniards are stealing our fish :mad:

Send out the navy for some target practice



Oh and a tax on text messages, maybe one cent

lividduck

howsyourtusk wrote: »

Tax the rich.

Already done, check the figures they are freely available.

BackScrub

mikemac1 wrote: »

Those Spaniards are stealing our fish :mad:

Send out the navy for some target practice

I'm pretty sure the EU have regulations banning the shooting of fish. The cost of ammunition would probably add to the deficit too.

kippy

relax carry on wrote: »

Given that there appears to be a little bit of reluctance in paying a yearly property tax; do any of the arm chair economists on boards have any concrete costed measures for reducing €16 billon hole in the public finances? Try to keep away from frothing at the mouth comments about bankers, the IMF etc. Just curious as to what people would do for the economy if they were in govt. When replying could you indicate how much your measures would reduce the 16 billon by and if you think any of your proposals would encounter opposition.

I think you have a misguided opinion on why people are not paying the property tax at this point.
There are people with varying reasons.
For example there are those that are using this as a form of protest (as it is one of the very few taxations that one can NOT pay unlike income taxes, VAT etc etc).
These people realise a property tax is required to stabilise finances etc however aren't going to hand over 100 euro + whatever the charge will go to next year without getting some solid answers and action from the government.
Stuff around one law for us another for them, stuff about broken promises on local and national government reform, issues about paying anlos debts, issues over efficiencies in the public/civil service etc etc.

The people of this ilk will probably end up paying the charge but they want to at least have some form of protest over the mess we are in.

Doc Ruby

Start here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77755824&postcount=50

Everyone involved in those shambolic performances should be escorted from the premises.

relax carry on

AboutTwoFiddy wrote: »

relax carry on wrote: »

Given that there appears to be a little bit of reluctance in paying a yearly property tax; do any of the arm chair economists on boards have any concrete costed measures for reducing €16 billon hole in the public finances? Try to keep away from frothing at the mouth comments about bankers, the IMF etc. Just curious as to what people would do for the economy if they were in govt. When replying could you indicate how much your measures would reduce the 16 billon by and if you think any of your proposals would encounter opposition.

Household Tax would only raise €160 million, not €16 billion.

This years registration of €100 Euro was estimated to bring in 160 million. Next year should be a different figure if an actual property tax is introduced not this years 100 euro registration charge. Also as its was only to be part of the solution where did you get the idea it was going to fix everything?

relax carry on

Wibbs wrote: »

Reduce public service costs. Revisit the Croke park agreement, specifically in the higher and mid wage bands. Contrary to popular many many PS workers are at the lower pay grade so leave them be. Streamline/combine PS depts. This will require lay offs but that's the position we're in. Streamline councils, by reducing their number and the number of councilors. Massively reduce, even stop the overseas aid payments(at last count that would save over tree times what the household tax will bring in). Tighten up payments to "sick" banks. Major overhaul of the SW system. Look at simple things like urban, particularly suburban street lighting. Switch off every second or third streetlight. That'll ease the bills. Kill all vanity projects, except those that will provide provable returns(IE green energy projects that actually work). In the building of such projects make sure costings are real and if a company over runs such costings fine them for it. That's just off the top of my head.

Thanks for that. Any idea how much that would close the 16 billon gap by? And do you think there would be much opposition?

davet82

we could sell County Kerry? i'm sure we'd get a billion for it at least...

relax carry on

Tipp Man wrote: »

Public sector wages (inc pensions)

Cut 10% save 1.2 billion
Cut 20% save 2.4 billion

Social Welfare

Cut total bill by 10% save 1.9 billion
cut total bill by 20% save 3.8 billion

Spending on these 2 items is simply out of control and way above what we can afford

With a plan like this you must also take into account that by taking those amounts out of the equation you must also reduce the tax intake meaning your savings would actually be a lot less in terms of reduced Income tax, USC etc.

lucylu

Rob Bonos Facebuke Shares??

minidazzler

msg11 wrote: »

No more of this allowances bollix. The TD's get paid well, so take it out of there own money. Cars, pens and rulers the lot if they need it that badly they can pay themselves.

I would say yes with the caveat they can claim tax credits on things which are used for work. Just like everyone else in the world.

prinz

relax carry on wrote: »

And do you think there would be much opposition?

If anyone is going to lose out in any way whatsoever, even if it's only the perception of losing out, there will be opposition.

forfuxsake

relax carry on wrote: »

With a plan like this you must also take into account that by taking those amounts out of the equation you must also reduce the tax intake meaning your savings would actually be a lot less in terms of reduced Income tax, USC etc.

Not to mention the fact that social welfare and PS wages get spent in the economy so knock 20% of what is being spent in the economy and don't be too surprised if we see a relative economic downturn meaning more unemployment meaning further cuts meaning less money spent in the economy meaning further unemployment meaning more cuts meaning less money spent in the economy which will lead to further unemployment and more cuts.

for more info see Greece

mikemac1

Seize Rockall and claim the fishing rights and and oil rights there

The Brits are getting active lately and trying to claim it but it's ours
Dermot Ahern didn't care and did little

It's ours so take it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall

Might not be worth anything now but might be one day

relax carry on

kippy wrote: »

relax carry on wrote: »

Given that there appears to be a little bit of reluctance in paying a yearly property tax; do any of the arm chair economists on boards have any concrete costed measures for reducing €16 billon hole in the public finances? Try to keep away from frothing at the mouth comments about bankers, the IMF etc. Just curious as to what people would do for the economy if they were in govt. When replying could you indicate how much your measures would reduce the 16 billon by and if you think any of your proposals would encounter opposition.

I think you have a misguided opinion on why people are not paying the property tax at this point.
There are people with varying reasons.
For example there are those that are using this as a form of protest (as it is one of the very few taxations that one can NOT pay unlike income taxes, VAT etc etc).
These people realise a property tax is required to stabilise finances etc however aren't going to hand over 100 euro + whatever the charge will go to next year without getting some solid answers and action from the government.
Stuff around one law for us another for them, stuff about broken promises on local and national government reform, issues about paying anlos debts, issues over efficiencies in the public/civil service etc etc.

The people of this ilk will probably end up paying the charge but they want to at least have some form of protest over the mess we are in.

Cheers. Am aware there are a multitude of reasons for not paying the 100 fee. Am also aware that despite all the frothing at the mouth posters against proprty taxes in general, that there are a good portion of people who see the need for more taxes as well as spending cuts to close the 16 billon gap. Just wondering if the good people of boards have actually thought how they would close the gap and the problems associated with it.

Tipp Man

relax carry on wrote: »

With a plan like this you must also take into account that by taking those amounts out of the equation you must also reduce the tax intake meaning your savings would actually be a lot less in terms of reduced Income tax, USC etc.

Social welfare recipients contributing nothing to the income tax

Those are net of tax figures for the public sector

relax carry on

Tipp Man wrote: »

relax carry on wrote: »

With a plan like this you must also take into account that by taking those amounts out of the equation you must also reduce the tax intake meaning your savings would actually be a lot less in terms of reduced Income tax, USC etc.

Social welfare recipients contributing nothing to the income tax

Those are net of tax figures for the public sector

Some DSP benefits are taxable such as JSB or Illness benefit. Not to mention they contributory pension state pension. If a persons combined yearly income from all sources exceeds what their tax credits/reliefs can cover, then they pay tax. Also as already mentioned by another poster cutting the Public sector pay bill and social welfare bill impacts on the amount income these people can spend which affects the overall tax intake for the country.

kippy

relax carry on wrote: »

Cheers. Am aware there are a multitude of reasons for not paying the 100 fee. Am also aware that despite all the frothing at the mouth posters against proprty taxes in general, that there are a good portion of people who see the need for more taxes as well as spending cuts to close the 16 billon gap. Just wondering if the good people of boards have actually thought how they would close the gap and the problems associated with it.

I've countless posts on how to "bridge" the gap from 2008/2009/2010.
It's just a sad state of affairs that we are here 4 years later and its still not been bridged, despite some work towards it.
The property tax is a way of bridging it, however the idea that the property charge is for the use of local services is just nonsense.
One wonders why the owners of a property on a managed estate (any estate for that matter) are any more liable for paying towards the use of local services than any citizen.

Tipp Man

relax carry on wrote: »

Some DSP benefits are taxable such as JSB or Illness benefit. Not to mention they contributory pension state pension. If a persons combined yearly income from all sources exceeds what their tax credits/reliefs can cover, then they pay tax. Also as already mentioned by another poster cutting the Public sector pay bill and social welfare bill impacts on the amount income these people can spend which affects the overall tax intake for the country.

How many people on any social welfare are paying tax in this country?? An answer remarkably close to zero - or as near as that it will have no effect on the tax take

Where does the social welfare and public sector money come from? It comes from the tax pool of people who aren't government paid or supported. Public sector spending doesn't generate tax revenue - it merely redistributes it