Ahern Resigns.

[Jackass]

What a little slimey rat, trying to protect his precious legacy once again, better to leave on his own terms than face the consequences, just like he's done all his career.

I just hope his missery is only just begining for his absolute corruption and abuse of power, and his absolute self indulgent neglagence and mismanagement of the nation that left him a millionaire and just about every citizen of this nation hurting financially and in countless other ways for the way the country has crashed.

You'll face the music some day Bertie. But for now, keep running.

glenkeeran

If Fianna Fail want any respect they should not accept his resignation and continue with the expulsion of Bertie Ahearn and give him the shameful exit he deserves....

RandomName2

[Jackass] wrote: »

What a little slimey rat, trying to protect his precious legacy once again, better to leave on his own terms than face the consequences, just like he's done all his career.

I just hope his missery is only just begining for his absolute corruption and abuse of power, and his absolute self indulgent neglagence and mismanagement of the nation that left him a millionaire and just about every citizen of this nation hurting financially and in countless other ways for the way the country has crashed.

You'll face the music some day Bertie. But for now, keep running.

I am no fan of Bertie but the stuff in bold above is untrue.

What hope have we, as a nation, of attempting to rebuild Ireland's economy if we say that it fell due to corruption? Due to the abuse of power? Due to slimey personalities and cowardice?

These things predominantly didn't happen and they weren't the reason for the collapse, and although I am sure it is cathartic to redirect one's feelings about "it's the economy stupid" into attacks on Bertie such as the one above, I can't help but feel that it is.. to some extent.. disingenuous.

gerryo777

RandomName2 wrote: »

I am no fan of Bertie but the stuff in bold above is untrue.

What hope have we, as a nation, of attempted to rebuild Ireland's economy if we say that it fell due to corruption? Due to the abuse of power? Due to slimey personalities and cowardice?

These things predominantly didn't happen and they weren't the reason for the collapse, and although I am sure it is cathartic to redirect one's feelings about "it's the economy stupid" into attacks on Bertie such as the one above, I can't help but feel that it is.. to some extent.. disingenuous.

He allowed an unregulated banking sector flood Ireland with money, thus increasing house prices and inflating the biggest property bubble the western world has ever seen.

Do you not remember the Galway tent and the corrupt politicians/developers?

He also pandered to the mighty unions and allowed them drive up the cost of the PS, often by twice the rate of inflation yearly.

Our economy in part did fall due to abuse of power, it did fall because of slimey personalities and cowardice.
Just because Mahon couldn't prove corruption against ahern, doesn't mean he wasn't corrupt.

The sooner this pathetic little fool has left us, the better.

Him and CJ can laugh at us from below.

RandomName2

gerryo777 wrote: »

He allowed an unregulated banking sector flood Ireland with money, thus increasing house prices and inflating the biggest property bubble the western world has ever seen.

Retarded is as retarded does. Increasing the CPI, wages, low level migrant employment, pet government projects, and public spending all tilted the economy towards madness.

It was not the biggest the western world has ever seen though. Hyperbole disguises the fact that many western nations in the late 00s had property booms followed by busts. In the United States, Iceland, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Britain, Croatia etc. etc.

gerryo777 wrote: »

Our economy in part did fall due to abuse of power, it did fall because of slimey personalities and cowardice.
Just because Mahon couldn't prove corruption against ahern, doesn't mean he wasn't corrupt.

It fell because of idiocy. It fell because politicians believed in perpetual growth: that you could endlessly increase jobs, wages, housing demand and GNP. It took no consideration of the possibility of America's economy, let alone the global economy, going into recession. It took no consideration of the possibility that creditors might en masse be faced with the need to realise the value of the collateral which secured the value of their loans; thereby precipitating a mass devaluation of said collateral and potentially ruining our country.

Abuse of power? Pah! Anyone who made a false claim of income when obtaining a mortgage made an abuse of power. Corruption? Yeah, right! Then anyone who is self-employed and "forgets" a part of their annual income is corrupt.

You don't need any greater explanation than idiocy for the mess we are in. Spinning malevolent design is to miss the point.

femur61

1) Does he still get to keep his pension?

2) Does sacking him or resigning have any bearing on his pension entitlements.

Personally, I believe he believes he did no wrong. It is like a mantra at this stage "I was going through a difficult divorce". He is casting Miriam in a very bad light here.

Sierra Oscar

femur61 wrote: »

1) Does he still get to keep his pension?

2) Does sacking him or resigning have any bearing on his pension entitlements.

Personally, I believe he believes he did no wrong. It is like a mantra at this stage "I was going through a difficult divorce". He is casting Miriam in a very bad light here.

His pension entitlements have nothing to do with the party, because the pension is a state pension - no political party in Ireland provides a pension to any of its members. Doesn't look like it will be affected in any way as a result. Also I don't think the cabinet will seek to cut it, as the tribunal did not make an official finding of corruption against Ahern. They should definitely move against Padraig Flynn though - he was blatantly corrupt and the government would have ample evidence to act on.

gerryo777

RandomName2 wrote: »

It fell because of idiocy. It fell because politicians believed in perpetual growth: that you could endlessly increase jobs, wages, housing demand and GNP. It took no consideration of the possibility of America's economy, let alone the global economy, going into recession. It took no consideration of the possibility that creditors might en masse be faced with the need to realise the value of the collateral which secured the value of their loans; thereby precipitating a mass devaluation of said collateral and potentially ruining our country.

Isn't that the point I made.

Ahern was the leader of the country, the 'boss', the buck stops with him.

I'm a small building contractor, if any one of my workers do messes up a job of mine, I'm the one responsible.

They might lose their job, but at the end of the day its my problem.

RandomName2

gerryo777 wrote: »

Isn't that the point I made.

Ahern was the leader of the country, the 'boss', the buck stops with him.

I'm a small building contractor, if any one of my workers do messes up a job of mine, I'm the one responsible.

They might lose their job, but at the end of the day its my problem.

Yes, it makes you liable; and that is where the focus should lie.

If you did FUBAR, it does not make you a slimey corrupt rat, just incompetent, wrong, and (probably) out of a job!

And so Ahern lost his job (rightly so!) and was in no position to contest the presidency (also rightly so!). That is different from him being ousted from his party in some sort of nod to "rabble rabble rabble corrupt coward Bertie rabble"

gerryo777

RandomName2 wrote: »

Yes, it makes you liable; and that is where the focus should lie.

If you did FUBAR, it does not make you a slimey corrupt rat, just incompetent, wrong, and (probably) out of a job!

And so Ahern lost his job (rightly so!) and was in no position to contest the presidency (also rightly so!). That is different from him being ousted from his party in some sort of nod to "rabble rabble rabble corrupt coward Bertie rabble"

Well, we'll see how this one pans out.
It's not finished with yet......

take everything

What do you think will be the political ramifications of Bertie's expulsion.
For Martin: is his position tenable in light of his being either a fool and/or a knave re. Bertie's dodgy untruths.
Is Bertie powerless now. Presumably he knows where many of the bodies are buried. Can we expect leaks in the coming days and weeks.
The former weasel-in-chief is not going to take this lying down.
Thoughts.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

gerry077 and take everything, tone it down please.

Mr.Micro

lucozader wrote: »

Ahern is shocked at the corruption that has been unvealed in Fianna Fail. He is disgusted with Fianna Fail and its corrupt ways. He is leaving because he does not want to be associated with such a rotten and corrupt party.

Poor Bertie maybe has just discovered that he was not the only pig with his snout in the trough.

charlemont

Foghladh wrote: »

Given that the Devil doesn't actually exist I don't know what that does for your analogy

Ah ha, But that's what the Devil wants you to think !!

Basically FF without Bertie is still FF, The same mentality and way of business will continue, Its ingrained now not just in FF but in our society.

For as bad as the other parties are, They are still not as bad (corrupt) as FF, I'd hate to see FF disband and have its leeches join the other parties and infect them with the FF gene. :pac:

femur61

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

His pension entitlements have nothing to do with the party, because the pension is a state pension - no political party in Ireland provides a pension to any of its members. Doesn't look like it will be affected in any way as a result. Also I don't think the cabinet will seek to cut it, as the tribunal did not make an official finding of corruption against Ahern. They should definitely move against Padraig Flynn though - he was blatantly corrupt and the government would have ample evidence to act on.

the week in politics arew suggesting we might need a referendum to change it, wonder how people will vote

sfakiaman

I suspect that the real reason why Aherne resigned before FF could expell him was to attempt to keep a degree of moral authority to bolster his reputation for his foreign lecture engagements. I look forward to hearing his next lecture on honesty in politcs in some dubious South American country.

john reilly

femur61 wrote: »

the week in politics arew suggesting we might need a referendum to change it, wonder how people will vote

didnt they try something like this with calelly and it back fired. surely you cant stop somebody pension on the basis of a mickey mouse court( a very expensive one) if he had been convicted in a criminal court where the prosecution had built up a case with evidence and proof it would be something. although i still think that would be on dodgy ground. would you take the pension of an old person who commited a crime like not paying their t.v license.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

grizzly

He says "The Mahon tribunal is not a court of law". He should been given a chance to clear his name if he is innocent of these allegations.

Sierra Oscar

grizzly wrote: »

He says "The Mahon tribunal is not a court of law". He should been given a chance to clear his name if he is innocent of these allegations.

Hmm, he could always clear his name by allowing and co-operating with a full Garda investigation and let a jury deliberate over the evidence if needs be. Nothing to hide, right? . . .

jetsonx

As some of you probably know de Bert is meant helping the Basque country solve their conflict.

But, this morning when i checked on google.es i only had to type in the name
"bertie ahern" when google.es thoughtfully came up with the word "corrupcion" beside his name.

So, that's it lads, Bertie cover has been blown not just in Ireland. Here is what the local paper had to say about him. (translation = Bertie is a corrupt f@cker)

http://www.eldiariomontanes.es/agencias/20120323/mas-actualidad/internacional/bertie-ahern-podria-expulsado-fianna_201203231557.html

later12

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Hmm, he could always clear his name by allowing and co-operating with a full Garda investigation and let a jury deliberate over the evidence if needs be. Nothing to hide, right? . . .

There's no indication that he will not. In fact Ahern may yet pursue a judicial review or another form of High Court challenge himself, the latter of which would likely involve a re-examination of matters brought before the Flood and Mahon tribunals.

Yes I think Bertie Ahern is talking rubbish. Yes, the degree to which he sought to hide his finances from examination in the initial stages of the Tribunal's work was pretty disgraceful. Yes I think he lied. But he is correct about one thing. The tribunal is not infallible.

Irish people love to grumble about tribunals, and sometimes like to criticise those tribunal conclusions which do not appeal to their sense of fury in a way that is adequately theatrical. I always thought Michael Lowry was the guy who ought to have taken the Tribunal's work to the High Court. Particularly in light of the fact that another administrative body, the Revenue Commissioners, seemed to disagree with Moriarty by failure to consider any income accrued to Michael Lowry on foot of the awarding of the mobile phone license.

But that's not for here. Bertie talks a lot of guff, but he does make one important point that I think people may have overlooked without examining the substantive evidence in the Mahon report: tribunals are not infallible bodies.

Byron85

From Fintan O'Toole in today's Irish Times:

"Tom Gilmartin claimed that, in February 1989, Liam Lawlor took him to a meeting on the first floor of Leinster House. He was introduced to a phalanx of Fianna Fáil’s grand nobility: the sitting taoiseach Charles Haughey, his two successors, Albert Reynolds and Bertie Ahern, Brian Lenihan, Pádraig Flynn, Ray Burke, Séamus Brennan, Gerard Collins and Mary O’Rourke. (It is striking that of these nine politicians, four – Haughey, Ahern, Burke and Flynn – have since been shown to have been on the take.) Gilmartin claimed that, after this brief meeting, he was approached in the lobby outside the room by an unknown man who had been standing next to Liam Lawlor. The man asked him to put £5 million into a numbered Bank of Ireland offshore account in the Isle of Man. Gilmartin’s understanding was that this was the price he had to pay for planning permission for his shopping centre at Quarryvale."

It just keeps on getting more interesting, and i'm sure there's more to come given the size of the report. I downloaded a copy of it myself but haven't had a chance to even give it a cursory glance. College work takes precedence unfortunately.

It's sickening. Yet again Bertie jumped ship before he was made to walk the plank, all so he will be able to say that he resigned of his own accord, and no evidence of any corruption was ever proved against him.

Semantics. Pure semantics.

I sincerely hope the damning revelations keep trickling out year after year and he's made to squirm more and more for every stolen Euro of that massive pension of his. If there's any justice in this corrupt backwater of a country, the CAB will hang him out to dry, but I for one won't be holding my breath.

Run_to_da_hills

I wonder will all those that payed dearly for his costly international seminars be able to apply for a refund.

P. Flynn has deserted now too, according to radio news reports

Surprise surprise...

MadsL

BBC reporting Fianna Fail councillor, John Hannon, also resigned.

europa11

Deleted User wrote: »

P. Flynn has deserted now too, according to radio news reports

Surprise surprise...

Maybe "it didn't work out for him, he's not well...he's out of sorts" (I wish )

......barstewards are still drawing their pensions I'll bet :mad:. They have the morals of rats.

thecommietommy

P Flynn gone now, at least FF know when their beaten Pool aul Pádraig, he's had a tough life, what with the hassle of owning 3 houses and now this. Maybe we'll have a " dig out " for poor Padraig

http://www.rte.ie/news/

Mr.Micro

FF will not not be asking members of the executive to vote on Flynn or Ahern. Brush it under the carpet.... like it never happened. People will not be fooled by this little arrangement, where Ahern deludes himself further by playing the victim and the wronged party.

FF then deludes itself by not actually dealing with the issue and voting regardless of Ahern resigning. Same old FF then, and gutless to actually face up to its past. I suppose it saves one hypocrite accusing another hypocrite? What did we really expect from FF? It never was good with dealing with reality.