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Force a Referendum on the Property Tax
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The subtle hint was by prefixing "Gosh" into the statement to indicate irony.FreudianSlippers wrote: »So your answer is that all renters must rent from the government? Crazy stuff.0 -
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Renting per se is a business involving the stakeholders that are landlord and tenants. It is regulated (via the Tenancy board) and overseen by the Government as empowered via the numerous tenancy acts. So as renting is a commercial sector activity it is differentiated from the vast majority of the use of houses, that of shelters/homes for people - which are by their nature via nature wastage and repair sinks for money earned.
My understanding of the Rental sector (via Wylie's book on Tenancy) is that which has a political dimension, with numerous ground rental statues to ensure that certain sectors of the voter population benefit from restriction on the rights of other less vocal voter blocks. This Property tax continues this trend in another way.0 -
FreudianSlippers wrote: »Your original post still makes no sense... if a "house" cannot be a wealth generator, how do people rent?
You know quite well what he means, that a house is a utility.
Now regarding renting, a house/apartment can also be a business but renters should expect to pay a premium. This happens in most housing markets. The big clue of the bubble market was the ability to rent way above your mortgage affordability. It was extraordinary value as a renter in Ireland I'll tell you that...0 -
Maybe we should demand that this property tax is used locally rather than paid into central funds.0
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Exactly the same way as we used to be paying for the past 50+ years...?:
Well property rates were there until 1978 (or so) so in reality for the last 17 or so years of the last 50 we did have property taxes. However with our budget deficit the way it is and the property crash still every much in evident to you think it was a wise decision to abolish them?Great, that is brilliant justification. What else is common in the western world and as such we have to adopt it?? 40% corporate tax perhaps? :rolleyes:
Well done on the strawman argument. I never justified it solely because other countries implemented property taxes. There is clearly a merit for property taxes mostly in the form of funding local government. Now I know that this property tax at the moment is going to the state, not local government but I shouldn't be long until these taxes are used to fund local authorities
I think you should ask yourself WHY, not BECAUSE, clearly this was lost on you.0 -
I get maths.Sure did, but I'm at a loss as to why this is used as an argument against just about any fiscal policy put forward by the government?
It's real simple:
Tax Revenue <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Welfare + Public Sector pay
Furthermore:
(Welfare + Public Sector Pay - Tax Revenue) * x >>>>>> Cost of bank recapitalisations
where x is the number of years it takes Ireland to balance the books.
I and many like me haven't argued against any of the cuts, taxes, hidden increases in living costs etc however this, for me is one that is coming on top of plenty more, at a time when people can least afford it, and where, down the line, we have no idea what the final charge will be. More importantly I dont beleive for one second the money will be going anywhere that is of benefit to me or indeed the citizens of this country.
The bank bailout (and instruments tied to it)is in the billions, furthermore it was and still is an unknown amount, a black hole some would call it.
Do you not think btw, that taking on a guarentee of multiple times our GDP had any effect on our ability to borrow money from the "normal channels"?0 -
The bank bailout (and instruments tied to it)is in the billions, furthermore it was and still is an unknown amount, a black hole some would call it.
The problem with the whole banking mess is that we've promised to back up debts that may not materialize. We've stress tested the banks and come up with a figure of €35 billion required capital (total not new) to cover potential losses (which seem to be higher than current arrears figures). BOI, it appears, have managed to find all the capital that it's believe they require, so we're off the hook for about €4 billion of that €35 billion that we've guaranteed under the troika agreement.
The ELG currently covers €101 billion, of which €63 are deposits (a far cry form the €400 billion of 2008).
As best I can figure out we've actually paid about €15.375 billion to the banks (figures provided below, taken from the exchequer website) - with bonds being rolled into debt (we'll start paying interest on these now, if not already doing so).
The banks are paying the government insurance for being covered by the ELG. Last year they paid €1.235 billion, 2010 it was almost €575m and there was another 50m recorded in fees related to the recapitalization (1.86b total). So the current (net) running cost of the banks has been about €13.515 billion.
Last years net DSP contribution from the exchequer (approx €7b PRSI gets paid directly to DSP so doesn't appear on the books) was €13.307 billion.
Since 2008, when things went to pot, we've racked up a total deficit of €81 billion. Take the banks spending out of it and the figure is €65.635 billion.
That's about twice what we've stress tested the banks at, around what NAMA has taken out of the banks (70b odd), more than the biggest estimate of what it will take and about 1.5 times the estimated total lifetime cost of the promissory notes..
2011
Total overspend €24.9 billion
Current deficit €11.25
Bank payments - €10.65 billion
IL&P - €2.3 billion
Recapitalization €5.27 billion (aib, boi & il&p)
Promissory Notes €3.1 billion
2010
Total overspend €18.75 billion
Current deficit €12.6 billion
Bank payments - €0.725 billion
INBS - €0.1 billion
EBS €0.625 billion
2009
Total overspend €24.65 billion
Current deficit €11.4 billion
Bank payments (Anglo) - €4 billion
2008
Total overspend €12.71 billion
Current deficit €3.1 billion
Bank payments - none0 -
Does any of those figures take account of the money NAMA has used to buy "bad debt"?antoobrien wrote: »The problem with the whole banking mess is that we've promised to back up debts that may not materialize. We've stress tested the banks and come up with a figure of €35 billion required capital (total not new) to cover potential losses (which seem to be higher than current arrears figures). BOI, it appears, have managed to find all the capital that it's believe they require, so we're off the hook for about €4 billion of that €35 billion that we've guaranteed under the troika agreement.
The ELG currently covers €101 billion, of which €63 are deposits (a far cry form the €400 billion of 2008).
As best I can figure out we've actually paid about €15.375 billion to the banks (figures provided below, taken from the exchequer website) - with bonds being rolled into debt (we'll start paying interest on these now, if not already doing so).
The banks are paying the government insurance for being covered by the ELG. Last year they paid €1.235 billion, 2010 it was almost €575m and there was another 50m recorded in fees related to the recapitalization (1.86b total). So the current (net) running cost of the banks has been about €13.515 billion.
Last years net DSP contribution from the exchequer (approx €7b PRSI gets paid directly to DSP so doesn't appear on the books) was €13.307 billion.
Since 2008, when things went to pot, we've racked up a total deficit of €81 billion. Take the banks spending out of it and the figure is €65.635 billion.
That's about twice what we've stress tested the banks at, around what NAMA has taken out of the banks (70b odd), more than the biggest estimate of what it will take and about 1.5 times the estimated total lifetime cost of the promissory notes..
2011
Total overspend €24.9 billion
Current deficit €11.25
Bank payments - €10.65 billion
IL&P - €2.3 billion
Recapitalization €5.27 billion (aib, boi & il&p)
Promissory Notes €3.1 billion
2010
Total overspend €18.75 billion
Current deficit €12.6 billion
Bank payments - €0.725 billion
INBS - €0.1 billion
EBS €0.625 billion
2009
Total overspend €24.65 billion
Current deficit €11.4 billion
Bank payments (Anglo) - €4 billion
2008
Total overspend €12.71 billion
Current deficit €3.1 billion
Bank payments - none0 -
I think that’s the eventual idea. However, reforming local government in Ireland is going to take a lot of time – it’s not something that can happen overnight. Convincing people that they should be contacting the council about potholes, and not their local TD, is going to be a challenge.Maybe we should demand that this property tax is used locally rather than paid into central funds.0 -
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You see, you say you get maths, but you’re basically arguing that people are paying enough already. But they’re clearly not.I get maths.
I and many like me haven't argued against any of the cuts, taxes, hidden increases in living costs etc however this, for me is one that is coming on top of plenty more...
The bank bailout is pretty much done, the total amount involved is far smaller than Ireland’s ongoing current deficit and it’s very unlikely that all the money used to recapitalise the banks will never be seen again - there will be some return on investment (although I use the word “investment” in the loosest possible sense).The bank bailout (and instruments tied to it)is in the billions, furthermore it was and still is an unknown amount, a black hole some would call it.
I’m not defending the guarantee? I’m pointing out this is where Ireland is and, while deep cuts in spending need to be made, tax revenue also needs to be increased (or at least, shifted toward a more sustainable basis).Do you not think btw, that taking on a guarentee of multiple times our GDP had any effect on our ability to borrow money from the "normal channels"?0 -
Does any of those figures take account of the money NAMA has used to buy "bad debt"?
No because NAMA is a effectively a financial 3 card trick to keep it all off the government books (why else would it be a private company), which hasn't cost us anything. We gave NAMA a €300m loan to set it up and seed capital, which has been paid back.
The money that NAMA paid the banks was through bonds issues against the ECB not the government. NAMA has reportedly paid about €30b for about 70b of loans. So they have to make €30 billion & interest to break even.0 -
You see, you say you get maths, but you’re basically arguing that people are paying enough already. But they’re clearly not.
The bank bailout is pretty much done, the total amount involved is far smaller than Ireland’s ongoing current deficit and it’s very unlikely that all the money used to recapitalise the banks will never be seen again - there will be some return on investment (although I use the word “investment” in the loosest possible sense).
I’m not defending the guarantee? I’m pointing out this is where Ireland is and, while deep cuts in spending need to be made, tax revenue also needs to be increased (or at least, shifted toward a more sustainable basis).
If you reread my posts you'll see that I amn't advocating that people are paying enough already.
The whole thing, to me, comes down to fairness and accountability, of which I have seen very little in the past number of years.
As I said, as a people we have taken a lot over the past number of years and will probably take a lot more (including this household charge) but to sit down and not at least makes ones feelings known about it is pointless. (I've spoken to my elected reps about my feelings on it)
Almost EVERY figure that this states uses to project the future is based on a number of variables, the main one being growth/inflation. It will be impossible to grow while this tax hangs over a large chunk of the population. The government have not stated how they plan to adapt this tax in the coming years.
The total amount involved in the banking bailout (actual money), NAMA (despite it being "off the state books") one has to assume that any failure in NAMA to repay its debt will be taken up by the state, and indeed the amount of money we have guarenteed, far exceed any deficit, indeed I suspect it would equal about 6-7 years of a 20 Billion budget deficit.
All the time the guys on the ground get asked to put their hands in their pockets, to live by the law of the land. Yet for the past 4 years now not one single person, politician, banker, high ranking civil servant, business man, developer has seen the inside of a jail cell.
Never mind the guys like callelly, ahern and now O Snodaigh (and others) who continue to take the piss out of the Irish people.
For me, its all tied together.0 -
The total amount involved in the banking bailout (actual money), NAMA (despite it being "off the state books") one has to assume that any failure in NAMA to repay its debt will be taken up by the state, and indeed the amount of money we have guarenteed, far exceed any deficit, indeed I suspect it would equal about 6-7 years of a 20 Billion budget deficit.
I'd love to know where you think we're going to lose €120 b - €140 b.
Assuming NAMA loses everything and the government have to repay the ECB bonds we're talking about a loss of about €40 billion, which can't happen as they've already sold property worth a few billion and are renting more to partially cover loans.
The only way we can lose anywhere near that is if the entire residential mortgage book is written off, we're more likely to see snow in the 9th circle of hades than that happening.0 -
NAMA has been reporting quarterly profits for the past 3 quarters IIRC.antoobrien wrote: »I'd love to know where you think we're going to lose €120 b - €140 b.
Assuming NAMA loses everything and the government have to repay the ECB bonds we're talking about a loss of about €40 billion, which can't happen as they've already sold property worth a few billion and are renting more to partially cover loans.
The only way we can lose anywhere near that is if the entire residential mortgage book is written off, we're more likely to see snow in the 9th circle of hades than that happening.0 -
This is just meaningless hyperbole - the bottom line is the books need to be balanced....as a people we have taken a lot over the past number of years...
The Commission on Taxation has suggested the following:The government have not stated how they plan to adapt this tax in the coming years.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1221/breaking6.htmlUnder the commission’s proposed scheme a charge of €188 would be paid on houses valued at up to €150,000; €563 on houses between €150,000 and €300,000; €938 on houses up to €450,000; €1,313 on houses valued at up to €600,000; €1,699 on houses up to €750,000; €2,188 on houses valued at up to €1 million; €3,125 on houses up to €1.5 million and 0.25 per cent of the valuation on houses over that.
You're grossly over-stating both the amount taken on by NAMA and the likelihood of this all being lost.The total amount involved in the banking bailout (actual money), NAMA (despite it being "off the state books") one has to assume that any failure in NAMA to repay its debt will be taken up by the state, and indeed the amount of money we have guarenteed, far exceed any deficit, indeed I suspect it would equal about 6-7 years of a 20 Billion budget deficit.
This is the classic "We need someone to blame" mentality - why are you assuming that someone should have gone to jail?All the time the guys on the ground get asked to put their hands in their pockets, to live by the law of the land. Yet for the past 4 years now not one single person, politician, banker, high ranking civil servant, business man, developer has seen the inside of a jail cell.
The same Irish people who continue to vote for them?Never mind the guys like callelly, ahern and now O Snodaigh (and others) who continue to take the piss out of the Irish people.
You're conflating a whole bunch of issues, in my opinion, and it's difficult to make out a specific argument against the property tax.For me, its all tied together.0 -
The bottom line is lessons need to be learned, while at the same time books obviously need to be balanced.This is just meaningless hyperbole - the bottom line is the books need to be balanced.
The Commission on Taxation has suggested the following:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1221/breaking6.html
You're grossly over-stating both the amount taken on by NAMA and the likelihood of this all being lost.
This is the classic "We need someone to blame" mentality - why are you assuming that someone should have gone to jail?
The same Irish people who continue to vote for them?
You're conflating a whole bunch of issues, in my opinion, and it's difficult to make out a specific argument against the property tax.
What is the point in balancing the books if the money gets wasted, abused and we end up back here in 10--15 years time?
We have learned very little as a nation by the looks of it.
The key word used is "suggested". I want to know NOW, what my bills will be for next year and afterwards and what it will be used to pay for.
You don't belive that there is a strong chance that there was at least corporate fraud committed? That certain people did not do their job and were complicit in what happened?
There is always someone to blame and someone who deserves the blame in cases such as this. It is common knowledge that Anglo alone lied umpteen times to shareholders, the government, the markets etc etc
Seany is wheeled into the garda station every few months when the government have to announce a payment of bonds or something similiar but the investigation still goes on.
Argument against property tax:
No idea where the money goes.
No idea where the taxation will be at in two years time.
No idea of those paying management fees or directly having property managed by council will get anything off.
No idea whats next - water rates? Based on what, how much?
A complete lack of clarity by the government on what they plan to do to reduce the cost of local government (steps are being taken, not fast enough)
The concept itself, I have few issues with, I can see the reasons for it.0 -
What will your income tax bill be next year and afterwards? Your motor tax bill? How much will you spend on excise duty in 2014? What will the VAT rates be? What will it all be used to pay for?I want to know NOW, what my bills will be for next year and afterwards and what it will be used to pay for.0 -
oscarBravo wrote: »What will your income tax bill be next year and afterwards? Your motor tax bill? How much will you spend on excise duty in 2014? What will the VAT rates be? What will it all be used to pay for?
I know what the income tax rates, VAT rates, Motor tax rates, excise duty will be and within reason I can limit my exposure to them to some extent. Indeed if there are changes to them, they will be a small change.
This "Housing charge" or whatever it is called, is set to go from €100 up to god knows what (however figures of €1000-4000 have been mentioned)
I am a middle income earner, like many, and also a home owner. I pay 5-6 hundred euro a year on management fees, 2-3 hundred euro on home insurance. Health insurance works out at about 1200 for my family (I've already reduced this this year). I require a car for work, tax, insurance, fuel, maintenance. I heat my house with oil, a grand at least per year in an increasing market. Food, clothes, mortgage all on top of that.
And that's all of my net salary which has been hit in three different ways already and will no doubt be hit in a the next three budgets as well.
And you know, I would deem myself to be relatively lucky.
Now, to suggest that an unknown major increase in the cost of my bills for next year is an irrelevance is just insulting. I would like to be in a position to make changes to my life with as much lead in time as possible to allow for this reduction in income/increase in cost of living.
I care more right now what my money goes towards because I have fare less money, and far more money is going into the coffers of the state. A state, which down through the years has blown money on pet projects and wastage all over the shop.0 -
So should we wait 10-15 years, see if lessons have been learned, then try and balance the books?The bottom line is lessons need to be learned, while at the same time books obviously need to be balanced.
What is the point in balancing the books if the money gets wasted, abused and we end up back here in 10--15 years time?
As oscarBravo has pointed out, your being a bit silly now.The key word used is "suggested". I want to know NOW, what my bills will be for next year and afterwards and what it will be used to pay for.
It’s certainly a possibility, but I’m happy to let the Gardaí do their job while Ireland gets on with balancing the budget.You don't belive that there is a strong chance that there was at least corporate fraud committed?
Well you go ahead and blame whoever you like – it’ll make sod all difference to the current deficit.There is always someone to blame and someone who deserves the blame in cases such as this.
The money will go to the central exchequer. It will be used to pay for the running of the country. We have a pretty good idea what level the tax will be at in 2 years time – it’s not going to increase all that much for most people. The issue of management fees is something that needs to be dealt with, but generally speaking, people need to start demanding better value for money from management companies (and I’m including myself in that). As for water charges, I imagine they will be based on how much it costs to supply water?No idea where the money goes.
No idea where the taxation will be at in two years time.
No idea of those paying management fees or directly having property managed by council will get anything off.
No idea whats next - water rates? Based on what, how much?0 -
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No, you don't. You especially don't know what they'll be if the campaign to scrap this tax is successful, and the government is forced to raise revenue from other quarters.I know what the income tax rates, VAT rates, Motor tax rates, excise duty will be...
That's not an argument against paying a property tax, that's an argument against paying any tax.I care more right now what my money goes towards because I have fare less money, and far more money is going into the coffers of the state.0 -
So should we wait 10-15 years, see if lessons have been learned, then try and balance the books?
Not at all.
It shouldn't take 10-15 years to learn lessons, very little has changed in the past 4 years, which is why I am asking why just sit down and let changes happen without questioning them? If more of us (am including myself here)questioned what was going on in the previous 10 years we may not be where we are right now.
Silly or worried. Perhaps you are in a far better position financially than most.As oscarBravo has pointed out, your being a bit silly now.
4 years down the line and we've nothing to show for anything. Just a possibility? You dont think that the tardiness of these investigations have anything to do with the potential political fallout? What does the tardiness and lack of accountability and no doubt lack of jail time, show to the people of this state? Would you be worried if you were involved in white collar crime? Would it put you off it? These are all items that HAVE to be sorted out ASAP.It’s certainly a possibility, but I’m happy to let the Gardaí do their job while Ireland gets on with balancing the budget.
Thats a really good point. I hadn't thought of it like that....Well you go ahead and blame whoever you like – it’ll make sod all difference to the current deficit.
The "running of the country". Thanks for that.
The money will go to the central exchequer. It will be used to pay for the running of the country. We have a pretty good idea what level the tax will be at in 2 years time – it’s not going to increase all that much for most people. The issue of management fees is something that needs to be dealt with, but generally speaking, people need to start demanding better value for money from management companies (and I’m including myself in that).
Indeed. Another unknown quantity. Will it be introduced as slapshod as this charge has been?As for water charges, I imagine they will be based on how much it costs to supply water?0 -
oscarBravo wrote: »No, you don't. You especially don't know what they'll be if the campaign to scrap this tax is successful, and the government is forced to raise revenue from other quarters. That's not an argument against paying a property tax, that's an argument against paying any tax.
This tax will not be scrapped. That's pretty obvious. It may be pushed back or amended, or perhaps more information will come out about the future plans for it. Concrete information.
It's not an argument against paying any tax, it's an issue I have with the particular tax. If you want to apply it to other taxes, that is your move.0 -
Isn't any one of you at all worried about the future? You don't have families? You dont think that one key item as a nation we should have learned, is to question what goes on in our country (something we never did in the past)
Do you not think that we need to question more what happens in this country?
Isn't this particular issue a method of making a point to the government?
I'll be honest, financially, there's not a huge amount more I can take and as I said, I have a full time job and havent been out for work for ten years.
I am extremely concerned that we are being asked to fork out more and more, over a longer period of time, with very "knowns". Indeed death by a thousand cuts come to mind.
I have no issues paying my way but I am not at all confortable that the extra monies we are paying are going directly towards closing s deficit and that money is still being wasted on a major scale at all levels in this country. The money that is not being used for running the country is going towards interest and soverign loans, some of which we should simply not be repaying.
Outside of that, I don't have an issue with paying my way but at some point the last straw will come for many.
It's much easier "take the pain" when you see change happening. I don't.
So apologies for going against the majority opinion in here.0 -
Well, no. All tax goes to central revenue; that's stipulated in the constitution. If you have a problem with paying a property tax because you don't know how it will be spent, but don't have a problem paying income tax even though you don't know how it will be spent, you're being logically inconsistent.It's not an argument against paying any tax, it's an issue I have with the particular tax.
Yes. The point seems to be "we don't want to pay enough tax to cover the cost of public services". Successive Fianna Fáil governments took advantage of that aspect of our nature to repeatedly buy re-election by eroding the tax base and allowing public spending to grow out of control.Isn't this particular issue a method of making a point to the government?
The deficit is the difference between taxes taken in and money spent. Extra taxes are, by definition, going towards closing the deficit....I am not at all confortable that the extra monies we are paying are going directly towards closing s deficit and that money is still being wasted on a major scale at all levels in this country.
Unless you're going to claim that the government have a cunning plan to increase wastage in order to fritter the extra taxes?
Our borrowings are almost exclusively being used to make up the difference between our tax take and our public expenditure. The way to reduce the loans and interest is to reduce the deficit that we have to borrow, which means higher taxes and lower spending.The money that is not being used for running the country is going towards interest and soverign loans, some of which we should simply not be repaying.0 -
Fair enough, I can see when I am wasting time.0
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There’s no need to get personal, but rest assured, the average person working in Ireland earns more than I do.Perhaps you are in a far better position financially than most.
This is borderline conspiracy theory stuff – are you suggesting that the government are perverting the course of justice?4 years down the line and we've nothing to show for anything. Just a possibility? You dont think that the tardiness of these investigations have anything to do with the potential political fallout?
So we should throw a few bankers, senior civil servants and politicians in jail, just to have something to “show to the people”?What does the tardiness and lack of accountability and no doubt lack of jail time, show to the people of this state?
But you’re not questioning anything, you’re just blindly opposed to the property tax based on some nebulous reasoning involving bank bailouts, white collar crime and NAMA.Isn't any one of you at all worried about the future? You don't have families? You dont think that one key item as a nation we should have learned, is to question what goes on in our country (something we never did in the past)
Ok let’s put a figure on this - how much “waste” needs to be eliminated before you’ll be prepared to pay additional taxes?I have no issues paying my way but I am not at all confortable that the extra monies we are paying are going directly towards closing s deficit and that money is still being wasted on a major scale at all levels in this country.0 -
So we should throw a few bankers, senior civil servants and politicians in jail, just to have something to “show to the people”?
Well we are close to the one year anniversary of Justice Peter Kelly saying this:A High Court judge has extended the Director of Corporate Enforcement and Garda investigation into Anglo Irish Bank to the end of July only after expressing serious concern the progress of the two year probe "is not at all satisfactory".
Mr Justice Peter Kelly also strongly criticised the failure to mount any prosecutions in other Commercial Court cases despite "prima facie evidence" and even admissions of criminal wrongdoing in such cases and where papers to that effect had been sent years ago by him to the authorities
I'd be happy if at least a few of the these cases actually made it into the courts. What are we to make of confessions of wrongdoing that are not prosecuted? Political interference in the Gardai/courts?0 -
Without specific details it's difficult to judge, but it's a separate issue from balancing the budget.I'd be happy if at least a few of the these cases actually made it into the courts. What are we to make of confessions of wrongdoing that are not prosecuted? Political interference in the Gardai/courts?0 -
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The problem with this charge is that's a crude attempt by the government to raise some more money to hand over to the banks and the rest.
Ever hear of our current budget deficit which had/has to be brought down from 20 billion ?
Without ever mentioning money to banks, our budget is fecked and that means cuts/extra taxes.Let no one pretend that this is for local services. Rates were abolished years ago because they were a mess.
Ehh wrong.
They were not abolished because they were a mess, they were abolished by ff led by the gobdaw from Cork who abolished them at the same time as he abolished road tax all in an effort to buy the 1977 election.
And guess what, yet again the gombeens in this country fell hook line and sinker for the ff method of short term gain instead of long term stability.
Ehh do you think we are so unique in the Western world that we should not pay some form of annual residential property taxes ?Spending Cuts First
Taxes second
I would actually agree to a degree with this.
There is still huge amount of wastage that needs to be tackled.Ppl now starting off in employment wll never be able to see the types of wages some ppl in this country are currently availing of(im talking public and private)...All we get these days is recession recession recession...
Its grand for ppl who are on this type of money to be happy to pay €100 but for those starting off on much much lower saleries its alot of money...
What ???
For the vast amount of people starting off in employment they should not be paying this since they should not be owners of property.
Only during the madness of the boom did people starting in employment start buying property.I have a god given right to own a house (before anyways says otherwise)...
??I pay enough tax as it is(even though some would argue we are below most EU states)...I may not pay more than 37-38% tax but the rest of my money goes to paying the elecy, gas, bins, food and so on so forth...This is not paid for me by my local council and will not be paid for me by yet another taxation on my house...
The amount of taxes you pay is not dictated by how much you spend, it is actually the other way around. :rolleyes:
The more I read of Irish opinion the more I think that there should be compulsory economics/commerce/accounting in school upto Junior cert.0
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