Why do people in tornado alley build their houses out of timber ?

Rabidlamb

Do they not learn the fable of the 3 little pigs as children ?.
Every year the same thing, carnage strewn everywhere, I'm going to the mid-west to become a brick salesman.
Yeeee hawww

thenightrider

Id say because its cheaper then building with brick's that will also get blown down.

stupidusername

thenightrider wrote: »

Id say because its cheaper then building with brick's that will also get blown down.

why build your house in an area known to get tornadoes in the first place?

Ive often thought about this,
A house made of reinforced cast concrete would not be blown down.
although the roof might get ripped off

SEPT 23 1989

Because they are American

mackg

stupidusername wrote: »

why build your house in an area known to get tornadoes in the first place?

extreme xenophobia?

John Doe1

Donegal?

M cebee

always wondered

seems crazy

Brendog

because you touch yourself at night

MadYaker

Flying debris does as much damage as the tornadoes themselves. Nobodies house will still be standing after a flying bus hits it at 150mph.... Building homes that would be tornado proof would be ridiculously expensive and just not practical. It might be possible to make the walls resistant to small tornadoes but your house would still be gutted or completely destroyed by flying debris.

A house made of reinforced cast concrete wouldn't last 10 seconds if hit by even a medium sized tornado. Plenty of the worlds population are under constant threat of natural disaster. Were a bit detatched from it here but people just live with it. Most of california's population live on a fault line.

thenightrider

stupidusername wrote: »

why build your house in an area known to get tornadoes in the first place?

Thats what i was thinking but op asked why they make them out of wood im sure there is load's of reasons why they build them there but i know i would not.

Rabidlamb

MadYaker wrote: »

Flying debris does as much damage as the tornadoes themselves. Nobodies house will still be standing after a flying bus hits it at 150mph.... Building homes that would be tornado proof would be ridiculously expensive and just not practical. It might be possible to make the walls resistant to small tornadoes but your house would still be gutted or completely destroyed by flying debris.

Plenty of 100 mph hurricanes hit Ireland & the worst that happens is a slate blows off.
I'm not sure an extra 50% could do that much more damage.

o1s1n

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I'm not sure an extra 50% could do that much more damage.

It would if it were carrying a bus.

Logical Fallacy

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Plenty of 100 mph hurricanes hit Ireland & the worst that happens is a slate blows off.
I'm not sure an extra 50% could do that much more damage.

There is a big difference between a hurricane and a tornado though. Hurricane winds in F5 conditions max out about 155mph, F5 Tornado maxes out at about 320mph.

Building your houses of brick won't really do much to help you...the roof will come off in a strong enough tornado regardless and the tornado will just level the house.

The tend to build houses from materials and in a manner that is cheaper and easier to rebuild.

MadYaker

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Plenty of 100 mph hurricanes hit Ireland & the worst that happens is a slate blows off.
I'm not sure an extra 50% could do that much more damage.

Tornadoes are completely different to hurricanes. Do you know what a tornado is? Its a rotating column of air connected to the earth at the bottom and a cloud at the top. I don't fully understand the physics (something to do with their rotation i guess) but one of the reasons they are so destructive is because they create areas of extremely low pressures around them so as they approach buildings the buildings simply explode and obviously if one hits a building it gets minced.

Rabidlamb

Alright, there maybe some science in your explanations.
But, why doesn't God protect them ?.

Logical Fallacy

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Alright, there maybe some science in your explanations.
But, why doesn't God protect them ?.

Because God and Science don't mix.

They dated for a while, but it ended really badly.

I kind of the get the impression you just want to imply that these folk are stupid, so when the whole "wooden houses har har har" thing fell apart your rolling with the Jesus angle now.

Just so you know, i am completely cool with that.:D

Logical Fallacy

sugarman wrote: »

They should just build them from Lego...

...can easily rebuild them & if your ever bored of the way the gaf looks you can take it apart and rebuilt it. Even move it down the road if you wanted.

Plus renovations would be easy and fun for all the family.

Best idea in this thread yet tbh.

MadYaker

To be honest I admire people who live their lives in places like tornado alley. It takes a lot of strength to pick up the pieces after everything you own is reduced to a pile of rubble and your car is up a tree 6 miles away. I guess they if they've lived there all their lives they don't want to move. I think if Galway was in tornado alley id still want to live here. Having said that I have no idea what its like to lose everything like some of those people in north carolina did....

Nothingbetter2d

the people in tornado alley need to build a few mountain strips to break the wind (pardon the pun)

strobe

I'd imagine it's cost mainly. Timber is dirt cheap in the US. Land in tornado alley is cheaper than in similar areas (high quality cheaper than usual farm land etc). So you can have a house and lots of good land for a fraction of the price you could be paying.

Plus if you're unlucky enough to catch an F4/5 tornado your brick house won't necessarily do a whole lot. Your roof will be torn off and everything inside smashed to bits and a flying bus stop sign will make mince of any brick wall it gets fired at 90mph against. The strucurtural damage could mean that while your house would still be standing at the end it would be unsafe and would need to be levelled and re-built in anyway rather than just repaired.

It's just risk versus reward. A tornado with the strength to tear down a timber house is rare enough and one happening to touch down right in the area your home is built is rarer still. There are timber framed homes in 'tornado alley' that have been standing for 70+ years. So it's a roll of the dice, it pays off for some people and some people aren't as lucky. For the unlucky ones they can still claim on their insurance and throw up another relatively cheap timber framed house on their kick ass land.

Duckworth_Luas

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Alright, there maybe some science in your explanations.
But, why doesn't God protect them ?.

God only protects Zoroastrians, most people living in Tornado Alley are protestants. This house was owned by the only Zoroastrian in his town!

wexie

o1s1n wrote: »

It would if it were carrying a bus.

There was a guy down in Florida who said that, at the age of 53 years old, he was in good enough physical condition to withstand the wind, rain and hail of a force-3 hurricane. Now, let me explain somethin' to ya: it isn't that the wind is blowin', it's what the wind is blowin'. If you get hit by a Volvo, it doesn't matter how many sit-ups you did that morning....
(Ron White)

token101

Maybe if they prayed to Baby Jesus more this wouldn't happen.

El Horseboxo

I grew up in Kansas slap bang in the middle of tornado alley. Had a few close calls at times and seen counties around me levelled. But no direct hits on our home. Which was made of brick by the way. I had previously lived in a wooden house and I preferred that. Doesn't matter if it's brick or wood though. A direct hit from anything over F2 and your house is getting destroyed. So might as well construct it with cheaper material so rebuilding costs are lower if you need to repair after damage. The clean up is also easier and you don't have to worry about flying blocks of concrete.

A huge part of the US can experience tornadoes. Pretty much the entire central plains right up to the Canadian border and right down to the Mexican one. Also a large portion of the south east. Tornado alley is just one section. You also have Dixie alley, Hoosier alley and Carolina alley. You can't just avoid living there when you've a population as big as America does. Not when the odds of having your house destroyed by them are so low. You only hear about the bad ones over here. Never about the thousands that touch down in open fields and do no to very little damage. Still the risk keeps housing costs down and it's no surprise or coincidence that a majority of the poorest people in the US live in areas prone to tornadoes.

CrazyRabbit

Only a extremely tiny percentage of houses in a tornado-prone state are destroyed by tornado's each year.

If you have a million houses in tornado alley and 200 gets destroyed per year, it's easy to have an "It won't happen to me" view of it.

longhalloween

MadYaker wrote: »

Tornadoes are completely different to hurricanes.

I thought tornadoes, hurricanes and cyclones were the same thing, just depended where in the world they occur?

Logical Fallacy

longhalloween wrote: »

I thought tornadoes, hurricanes and cyclones were the same thing, just depended where in the world they occur?

Nope, the difference between Tornados and Hurricanes is pretty big, one being basically a giant storm and the other being a highly localised event that manifests as a tunnel of rapidly moving air.

Tornado's can be called cyclones though, as they were called just that for a long time in a lot of places.

Big Nasty

longhalloween wrote: »

I thought tornadoes, hurricanes and cyclones were the same thing, just depended where in the world they occur?

You say tomato I say tomato!

I hit an F5 once - it was refreshing!

Pandora2

longhalloween wrote: »

I thought tornadoes, hurricanes and cyclones were the same thing, just depended where in the world they occur?

I knew it would come down to this the old tornadoes v. hurricanes v. cyclones debate:D

mrkite77

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I'm going to the mid-west to become a brick salesman.

I guess you can get your start by collecting all the bricks from the ground after a tornado destroys a brick building.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/spring041211/s_s14_09149561.jpg

http://www.wgbh.org/imageassets/bricks.jpg

MadYaker

longhalloween wrote: »

I thought tornadoes, hurricanes and cyclones were the same thing, just depended where in the world they occur?

>insert facepalm pic here<

El Horseboxo

longhalloween wrote: »

MadYaker wrote: »

Tornadoes are completely different to hurricanes.

I thought tornadoes, hurricanes and cyclones were the same thing, just depended where in the world they occur?

Replace tornado with typhoon and you have that right.

df1985

timber houses are lighter than concrete houses, simples. would you rather a plabk of would hitting you or a concrete block if your house comes down.

and no, in a tornado a concrete house wont stay standing. they rip everything from the ground.

Pottler

MadYaker wrote: »

Flying debris does as much damage as the tornadoes themselves. Nobodies house will still be standing after a flying bus hits it at 150mph.... Building homes that would be tornado proof would be ridiculously expensive and just not practical. It might be possible to make the walls resistant to small tornadoes but your house would still be gutted or completely destroyed by flying debris.

A house made of reinforced cast concrete wouldn't last 10 seconds if hit by even a medium sized tornado. Plenty of the worlds population are under constant threat of natural disaster. Were a bit detatched from it here but people just live with it. Most of california's population live on a fault line.

Just aint so. ICF houses can withstand tornadoes, earthquakes, extreme impacts, etc etc. I have a sneaky suspicion they keep on using wood because they are a tad dim. There best giggle is that they build an ickle wickle bit of the house out of reinforced concrete(that oddly they call their "tornado refuge" and use to hide in when the storms come.
They also tend to loudly exclaim "its just too damn dear to build the whole thing out of conncereete", and then go on to rebuild their stick house over and over again when the (blindingly predictable) tornadoes strike. If you lived in an area called "pis5ing it down with rain regularly alley", would you build your house out of bog roll?
I've had this row with lots of our american brethren but they just dont git it-"but we've always built that way" tends to be the arguement. BTW, I'm a builder. And ICF is insulated concrete formwork. And its pretty much indestructable. And it costs much the same as useing blocks. And no, they dont blow away.

rossie1977

stupidusername wrote: »

why build your house in an area known to get tornadoes in the first place?

tornado alley encompasses a huge area of the usa, most of the people living there were born there and the odds on being in the middle of a tornado is probably tiny http://www.readyforanythingnow.com/disaster%20survival%20guide%20articles/Images/Wind%20Table.jpg

Logical Fallacy

Pottler wrote: »

Just aint so. ICF houses can withstand tornadoes, earthquakes, extreme impacts, etc etc. I have a sneaky suspicion they keep on using wood because they are a tad dim. There best giggle is that they build an ickle wickle bit of the house out of reinforced concrete(that oddly they call their "tornado refuge" and use to hide in when the storms come.
They also tend to loudly exclaim "its just too damn dear to build the whole thing out of conncereete", and then go on to rebuild their stick house over and over again when the (blindingly predictable) tornadoes strike. If you lived in an area called "pis5ing it down with rain regularly alley", would you build your house out of bog roll?
I've had this row with lots of our american brethren but they just dont git it-"but we've always built that way" tends to be the arguement. BTW, I'm a builder. And ICF is insulated concrete formwork. And its pretty much indestructable. And it costs much the same as useing blocks. And no, they dont blow away.

As far as i am aware an ICF house will withstand winds of up to about 200mph...many storms and tornados will have much stronger winds than this.

I believe the common method of protection from a tornado etc in an ICF house is to have one dedicated "strong room", designed to withstand great wind speeds?

As far as i am aware there is nothing that will withstand an F5 except for those special dome shaped houses...but F5's are very rare events.

Out of interest, how would you rate the cost and build time of an ICF house versus a normal get up???

Cantona's Collars

They could move here and live in houses built on flood plains & experience being underwater on average twice a year.

Here's what an f5 can do,some of the places destroyed are built with bricks & mortar,they fared no better than timber homes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCwsg-cyZR8

Pottler

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

As far as i am aware an ICF house will withstand winds of up to about 200mph...many storms and tornados will have much stronger winds than this.

I believe the common method of protection from a tornado etc in an ICF house is to have one dedicated "strong room", designed to withstand great wind speeds?

As far as i am aware there is nothing that will withstand an F5 except for those special dome shaped houses...but F5's are very rare events.

Out of interest, how would you rate the cost and build time of an ICF house versus a normal get up???

I'm a registered ICF installer, and an ICF can be constructed to withstand ANY force of wind. Standard ICF rebar/crete layer is 4" - that will withstand 200mph, step up to 8" with heavy rebar and you have created a bombshelter as well as a home. Go to 12" and you have an immovable object. Concrete is relatively cheap. As far as ICF goes, its the best form of construction possible(I do traditional masonry/timber frame and ICF. I have no idea why ANYBODY builds any extension, new build or commercial masonry property out of anything else. U values are amazing, speed is unreal, quality is simply the best. Its like broadband versus dial up. Funnily enough, it is largely the very wealthy who use this method of construction but with the timesaving(roof level in days not weeks/months, no heating bills and indestructable/impervious). In Canada, its the go-to construction. We built one in Portlaoise and on a day with -10 outside, we were warm with no heat on and no windows installed during construction. Just hasn't caught on here in a major way, but I have no idea why. You cannot compare bricks/blocks to ICF - ICF is one solid block of steel and concrete with no mortar lines or weak spots. If the roof is steel beam and tile effect cladding, let it blow all it wants, nothings going anywhere and nothing is gonna give either.

ProudDUB

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Plenty of 100 mph hurricanes hit Ireland & the worst that happens is a slate blows off.

No they don't. What makes a hurricane a hurricane in the first place is that the wind speeds are SUSTAINED winds at 150 mph for hours and hours at a time. That just doesn't happen here. It may blow like the dickens in spurts, but it is never the sustained, non stop crazy, insane wind speeds for hours and hours, that they experience in the US. That is what does the damage there. The hurricanes that hit Florida, the Gulf Coast & the Carolinas are are 500 mile wide monsters that move incredibly slow. When they make landfall, it takes hours for the front end of the storm to come on through. There is a lull when the eye hits. Then all hell breaks loose when the much, much more powerful back end hits for hours and hours more. That just does not happen here. I lived in the south eastern US for 18 years. I know what I am talking about.

It is also not just about the damage that wind gusts do, even though that makes the most fun to show on new reports. Most hurricane property damage and deaths come from storm surge, where the winds whip up sea levels to heights 10-20ft above normal. Water pressure is far, far stronger than wind gusts are. If that $hit hits your coastal holiday home at high tide, pushing all kinds of debris before it, you can kiss it goodbye, no matter what it is made off.

There are other factors at play too given the heat that areas like this experience. A lot of homes in New Orleans were under water after Hurricane Katrina. When the flood waters went down, they all looked to be structurally sound. They were, but they were also all covered in a toxic mold that grew like gangbusters in the heat and humidity there. It could never be eradicated safely. The houses all had to be condemmed and rebuilt as a result. That is much, much easier and cheaper to do if they are made from wood or vinyl siding than if they are made from bricks and motor, whether you are in tornado alley or hurricane zones.

firefly08

^This. They have all kinds of disasters here in the US on a scale we just don't see in Ireland, and you'd be surprised how convenient the old wooden houses can be.

Last summer I spent a lot of time helping friends prepare for a controlled flood of the Missouri river. They had a number of houses on their land, and with one of them, they were able to literally jack it up like a car and put concrete blocks under it. Not so easy with a concrete house! You could walk around underneath the house, before the water came.

With that said, I do think concrete houses would fare better with a lot of the problems they have, such as sub-hurricane winds and golf-ball sized hail etc. But there's a big difference in cost, and it's a lot easier to make repairs as you go than to spend more up front.

uncle_sam_ie

What about an underground house with a timber façade house on top. Let the destruction blow over. Also, it would be cool in the summer and warm in the winter.

Logical Fallacy

Pottler wrote: »

I'm a registered ICF installer, and an ICF can be constructed to withstand ANY force of wind. Standard ICF rebar/crete layer is 4" - that will withstand 200mph, step up to 8" with heavy rebar and you have created a bombshelter as well as a home. Go to 12" and you have an immovable object. Concrete is relatively cheap. As far as ICF goes, its the best form of construction possible(I do traditional masonry/timber frame and ICF. I have no idea why ANYBODY builds any extension, new build or commercial masonry property out of anything else. U values are amazing, speed is unreal, quality is simply the best. Its like broadband versus dial up. Funnily enough, it is largely the very wealthy who use this method of construction but with the timesaving(roof level in days not weeks/months, no heating bills and indestructable/impervious). In Canada, its the go-to construction. We built one in Portlaoise and on a day with -10 outside, we were warm with no heat on and no windows installed during construction. Just hasn't caught on here in a major way, but I have no idea why. You cannot compare bricks/blocks to ICF - ICF is one solid block of steel and concrete with no mortar lines or weak spots. If the roof is steel beam and tile effect cladding, let it blow all it wants, nothings going anywhere and nothing is gonna give either.

Cheers for that man! I know what i'm building my house with.

dirtyden

Pottler wrote: »

I'm a registered ICF installer, and an ICF can be constructed to withstand ANY force of wind. Standard ICF rebar/crete layer is 4" - that will withstand 200mph, step up to 8" with heavy rebar and you have created a bombshelter as well as a home. Go to 12" and you have an immovable object. Concrete is relatively cheap. As far as ICF goes, its the best form of construction possible(I do traditional masonry/timber frame and ICF. I have no idea why ANYBODY builds any extension, new build or commercial masonry property out of anything else. U values are amazing, speed is unreal, quality is simply the best. Its like broadband versus dial up. Funnily enough, it is largely the very wealthy who use this method of construction but with the timesaving(roof level in days not weeks/months, no heating bills and indestructable/impervious). In Canada, its the go-to construction. We built one in Portlaoise and on a day with -10 outside, we were warm with no heat on and no windows installed during construction. Just hasn't caught on here in a major way, but I have no idea why. You cannot compare bricks/blocks to ICF - ICF is one solid block of steel and concrete with no mortar lines or weak spots. If the roof is steel beam and tile effect cladding, let it blow all it wants, nothings going anywhere and nothing is gonna give either.

Ah it is great to have your completely unbiased viewpoint.

uncle_sam_ie

firefly08 wrote: »

^This. They have all kinds of disasters here in the US on a scale we just don't see in Ireland, and you'd be surprised how convenient the old wooden houses can be.

Last summer I spent a lot of time helping friends prepare for a controlled flood of the Missouri river. They had a number of houses on their land, and with one of them, they were able to literally jack it up like a car and put concrete blocks under it. Not so easy with a concrete house! You could walk around underneath the house, before the water came.

With that said, I do think concrete houses would fare better with a lot of the problems they have, such as sub-hurricane winds and golf-ball sized hail etc. But there's a big difference in cost, and it's a lot easier to make repairs as you go than to spend more up front.

A wood house is also ideal if you live in an area prone to earthquakes. They tend to go with the flow.

joseph brand

Originally Posted by Rabidlamb
I'm not sure an extra 50% could do that much more damage.

o1s1n wrote: »

It would if it were carrying a bus.

Or a Fat American, holding a shovel.

Logical Fallacy

dirtyden wrote: »

Ah it is great to have your completely unbiased viewpoint.

Well, he also said he did tradition masonry and timber frame building as well so it doesn't matter to him what people do, he can still get paid.

Pottler

dirtyden wrote: »

Ah it is great to have your completely unbiased viewpoint.

nope- I had my house destroyed in the past by hurricane, roof torn off, devastated. Here in Ireland! Absolutely ruined me financially for a long time. I'm evangelical now on stronger construction. Anyway, take it how you like.

dirtyden

Pottler wrote: »

nope- I had my house destroyed in the past by hurricane, roof torn off, devastated. Here in Ireland! Absolutely ruined me financially for a long time. I'm evangelical now on stronger construction. Anyway, take it how you like.

But even building an ICT home you need windows a door and a roof. Unless you build a complete concrete shell it is not tornado proof. You cannot tornado proof an everyday home.

I take your point on being evangelical about safety though, and i take back any indicacation of a sales pitch I may have inferred.

Lando Griffin

Wooden houses my god I remember when just landed in the States in my cousins house and all the in laws were there, I had to go for a number two. It was right beside the kitchen and the acoustics it caused were horrifing. Never liked wooden houses.

Pottler

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Wooden houses my god I remember when just landed in the States in my cousins house and all the in laws were there, I had to go for a number two. It was right beside the kitchen and the acoustics it caused were horrifing. Never liked wooden houses.

Agreed-been in a lot of 300k+ timber houses that when you took a dump upstairs, the whole downstairs shared the experience. nasty:D