Possible Hike in Motor Tax to be announced today (old)

pa990

Hike in Motor Tax to be announced today.. well according to TV3

http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=68222&locID=1.2&pagename=news


Hikes in motor tax on the cards


14.03.12

Environment Minister Phil Hogan is expected to give more indications today of any potential Motor tax hikes when he appears before a Dail Committee later.

Earlier this month he confirmed that the annual motor tax system was being restructured.

The Government believes too many cars are falling into lower tax bands, based on carbon emissions.




@ anan. link working fine here. google tv3 news motor tax and its the first result

Anan1

That link's not working for me.

Jimdagym

Might be light on details as its not actually a press release happening.

langdang

Works for me (the link, not the increase!)

TestTransmission

I've renamed the thread OP as at this moment its still speculation.

Riskymove

The Committee was dealing with the legislation to put the new rates of motor tax, as announced in the Budget last year, into permanent effect

this is the document

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/0712/b712d.pdf

the only way to actually increase the rates is in a budget

The Minister may, however, have discussed what future changes they are considering etc.

Anan1

And works for me now too! As you say, it's pretty light on details..

Nothing announced since?

Voodoomelon

"Earlier this month he confirmed that the annual motor tax system was being restructured."

Not only is it light on details, it makes no sense.

Riskymove

Voodoomelon wrote: »

"Earlier this month he confirmed that the annual motor tax system was being restructured."

Not only is it light on details, it makes no sense.

They don't like the new co2 system and it's all likely to be changed again at a future budget

sundula

In summary the government are not happy that there is cheap road tax on some big cars based on a system that they designed and so they are going to put on their little thinking caps and give the car owners another good kicking and extract yet more cash from us as soon as they can figure out of a way that the garage, the motorist and the manufacture's cant get around.

sundula

sundula wrote: »

In summary the government are not happy that there is cheap road tax on some big cars based on a system that they designed..........

FG and labour designed the current system did they?

munchkin_utd

RoverJames wrote: »

FG and labour designed the current system did they?

no they didnt

that was the greens and ff

(and I live in germany and know that! But you can vote and I cant! There is a reason why Ireland ends up with dodge governments if folks dont know who to blame for the simplest of c0ck ups)

EDIT: aha , that was sarchasm against the previous clueless comment! Still, how can someone not know that an unaffordable environmental policy wasnt the policy of the greens

Voodoomelon

Riskymove wrote: »

They don't like the new co2 system and it's all likely to be changed again at a future budget

So the C02 system isn't annual then? :pac:

sundula

RoverJames wrote: »

FG and labour designed the current system did they?

These things are usually the brain child of high ranking civil servants who hold power in their relevant departments a never change regardless of elections results.

sundula

sundula wrote: »

In summary the government are not happy that there is cheap road tax on some big cars based on a system that they designed and so they are going to put on their little thinking caps and give the car owners another good kicking and extract yet more cash from us as soon as they can figure out of a way that the garage, the motorist and the manufacture's cant get around.

sundula wrote: »

These things are usually the brain child of high ranking civil servants who hold power in their relevant departments a never change regardless of elections results.

So a few posts ago the actual government designed it but now since it's been pointed out there is a different government it's now high ranking civil servants?

sundula

RoverJames wrote: »

So a few posts ago the actual government designed it but now since it's been pointed out there is a different government it's now high ranking civil servants?

No, when I said government I ment the government. FF / Greens proposed the idea but the CO2 system got support from all parties IIRC. Some other posters debated if it was the Greens / FF / FG or Labour I merely pointed out that it makes little difference which party "designed" the CO2 system as in truth DOE and DOF officials would do the the nuts and bolt design and costing of such as oppose to 'changing' minister's from changing parties. Department officials would decided the make up of such a system and how far it can or cant go.

shedweller

Who cares who did it.
It, or something like it was going to be tried anyway, no matter who got into power.
What i'm wondering at the moment is if any of this is linked to carbon trading?
Why?
I believe Ireland emits more carbon than the 1990 baseline and therefore we have to buy carbon credits to make up the shortfall.

The rush to buy post 08 cars then lowered our emissions (as did massive unemployment but thats another story!). The low tax was the carrot to entice us to buy them and we did in droves! Now that we have lowered our oil consumption we have less carbon credits to buy. Well done Ireland!

But the govt need money to run too.
What to do, what to do??

Ah yes, put the tax back up! Sorted!

positron

shedweller wrote: »

Who cares who did it.

I do, and I would like to see a quick and swift investigation (not a money making scam committee) to see if there were any unethical business going on there (I suspect there were interested parties who tweaking this in my opinion, were there brown envelopes, that I don't know). However who cares what I think, right? :rolleyes:

dr.fuzzenstein

It will just convince more people to dodge paying motor tax.

creedp

positron wrote: »

I do, and I would like to see a quick and swift investigation (not a money making scam committee) to see if there were any unethical business going on there (I suspect there were interested parties who tweaking this in my opinion, were there brown envelopes, that I don't know). However who cares what I think, right? :rolleyes:

I'd think you'd have to take your place in a long queue there .. As for conspiracy theories I think its all pretty transparent. Green party = anything that is low CO2 so when the SIMI came up with the wheeze to encourage people to buy new low CO2 emitting diesel cars, the Greens couldn't contain themselves. Simple, nothing to be seen here .. move on. All that happenned here is that by basing motor tax on CO2 alone the Govt didn't take into account the risk associated with car manufacturers R&D in this area. Other countrties could get away with this as their roadtax wouldn't be a significant revenue generating source unlike here. That's what happens when you implement something based on 'best international practice' but find it doesn't fit with unique auld Ireland.

Anan1

The basic idea of CO2-based tax is still sound, it's just the pricing that needs overhaul.

conzy

If they cant put the motor tax on fuel they should base it on the value of the car, it would be great for bangernomics drivers and would stop "old" cars from being scrapped needlessly.

It would also punish post 08 520d drivers which is basically what they are trying to do, they're not happy that people are buying €60k cars and paying less tax than a 1.2 petrol on the old system.

The old system is flawed too because it punishes drivers of powerful cars instead of expensive cars..

Mycroft H

sundula wrote: »

RoverJames wrote: »

FG and labour designed the current system did they?

These things are usually the brain child of high ranking civil servants who hold power in their relevant departments a never change regardless of elections results.

Ever seen "yes minister"? If you have not, go watch it as its exactly how things work

Anan1

conzymaher wrote: »

The old system is flawed too because it punishes drivers of powerful cars instead of expensive cars..

Ish. The idea (I presume) is both to encourage people to buy more efficient cars and also to hit more expensive cars harder. Long-term, I think a CO2-based system with a sliding scale for age would do that best.

creedp

BX 19 wrote: »

Ever seen "yes minister"? If you have not, go watch it as its exactly how things work

You obviously are speaking from experience

dr.fuzzenstein

creedp wrote: »

I'd think you'd have to take your place in a long queue there .. As for conspiracy theories I think its all pretty transparent. Green party = anything that is low CO2 so when the SIMI came up with the wheeze to encourage people to buy new low CO2 emitting diesel cars, the Greens couldn't contain themselves. Simple, nothing to be seen here .. move on. All that happenned here is that by basing motor tax on CO2 alone the Govt didn't take into account the risk associated with car manufacturers R&D in this area. Other countrties could get away with this as their roadtax wouldn't be a significant revenue generating source unlike here. That's what happens when you implement something based on 'best international practice' but find it doesn't fit with unique auld Ireland.

That is a point that galls me a fair bit.
Other countries also implement best international practice, but not just blindly so.
Experts look at different countries, study their models, study their own situation and come up with a tailored solution that fits their own situation.
Ireland is not so different as people think.
No, the problem here is that auld Seamus in whatever department spends five minutes googeling, ends up on wikipedia and copies and pastes his "findings" into a report that gets put in a drawer for months, so he can say that a team of experts have spent months and millions compiling this report.
This report then, most likely, gets ignored for a few years so has to be done again, or it gets implemented in a completely unthinking fashion, with no regard of whether it will work or not.
And that is why Ireland is different. It's a gombeen run hole. Other than that it could be run as efficiently as other civilsed countries with no problems whatsoever.
Different my ass.

creedp

Anan1 wrote: »

The basic idea of CO2-based tax is still sound, it's just the pricing that needs overhaul.

Agree with that to some extent but it still doesn't address the issue of the 520d paying the same as the micra and that seems to be an issue that needs to be addressed in this so called reform. I'm sure there will be some form of hybrid system which will incorporate both a CO2 element and a charge based on value/size of car. I still think that Motor Tax should not significantly be based on CO2 emissions, that's what tax on fuel is for. You buy a gas guzzler and don't drive it then you don't emit CO2 .. motor tax is paid irrespective of the mileage you do ..

Riskymove

creedp wrote: »

Agree with that to some extent but it still doesn't address the issue of the 520d paying the same as the micra and that seems to be an issue that needs to be addressed in this so called reform. ..

why? what is the problem there?

previously the same tax applied to all 2 litres, be it a BMW or a Ford or whatever, the value of the car meant nothing then either

the only reason to bring value in to it, is the angle that if a car is more expensive then it must be wealthier people who buy it, therefore they should pay higher tax...this is flawed imo

Anan1

Riskymove wrote: »

the only reason to bring value in to it, is the angle that if a car is more expensive then it must be wealthier people who buy it, therefore they should pay higher tax...this is flawed imo

Why is that flawed?

Riskymove

Anan1 wrote: »

Why is that flawed?

firstly, it overlooks the second hand car market

secondly, the originally purchaser pays the VRT...the more expensive the car the more the VRT paid already

thirdly, while we can argue about it, the motor tax is supposed to go to LAs to fund local services. The value of the car has little to do with the services provided

finally, wealthy people can buy cheaper cars too