Vodafone Dublin City Triathlon 2012

smcgui

Hi folks, just a reminder that the Vodafone Dublin City Triathlon will be open to entries on the Triathlon Ireland website from tomorrow morning at 9:00am.

There are two distances for this event which is taking place on the 26th August 2012 in the Phoenix Park Dublin:

Olympic Race (1500m/40km/10km – €55)

Super Sprint Race (600m/16km/4km – €45)

Thanks,
Sharon:D

couerdelion

Is the transition area going to be bigger this year?

smcgui

Yes the transition will be much bigger this year!

ray o

After last years water quality, will I pre-book my visit to the GP this year?

smcgui

Hi Ray,

I believe our Race Director John Wallnutt already addressed your concerns on Facebook.

If you have any further issues I would prefer if you emailed info@dublincitytriathlon.com and we can also send you that water report if necessary.

Thanks,
Sharon

tunney

I think most posters here have probably done DCT at some stage and I know that I for one have swum in much worse water qualities in races in Ireland, about which no ones says a word. DCT gets a harsher time because people hear the Liffey and go from there. Huge over reactions.

As with any open water activity there are risks. Are the risks in DCT higher than any other fresh water race in Ireland? I'd have thought not.

mloc123

There were quite a few reports on here last year of people being sick afterwards.
I know I was wiped out for a week last year by 'stomach cramp' issues afterwards.

I was fine after 2010. I think it is safe to say there was an issue last year and although only 9/900 complained the true number may well have been higher.

I will still be back this year

ray o

smcgui wrote: »

Hi Ray,

I believe our Race Director John Wallnutt already addressed your concerns on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/DublinCityTri/posts/354200827935219

If you have any further issues I would prefer if you emailed info@dublincitytriathlon.com and we can also send you that water report if necessary.

Thanks,
Sharon

I genuinely never seen that reply Sharon. I usually use facebook on my phone and don't always see replies. Looking at it now yourself and John were quick to respond. However I don't believe the numbers are accurate and the water quality test is not in line with this report.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/warning-to-swimmers-as-deadly-parasite-rampant-in-rivers-2893978.html

I do like the event and apart from the dodgy stomach and small transition that will be addressed I would like to do it again. However convincing the wife that a can of coke would have prevented it is another job.

tunney

ray o wrote: »

However convincing the wife that a can of coke would have prevented it is another job.

Wives are smart creatures.

the pH of stomach acid is closer to 1.0, and of coke closer to 3.0

Going to do fvck all for you. More urban myths

smcgui

Hi Ray,

No problem, sorry that you didn't see it sooner.

The water quality test was fine and it was a test done independently so as I said please email info@dublincitytriathlon.com if you would like the details on that.

The independent article was several months after event so I can't see there being a correlation. Regardless, I hope there will not be anyone sick this year as we plan this race to be a fun event and never want anyone to get sick.

I can promise the water tests will be done again this year, we will provide cola to all participants and we will make transition bigger. So all in all we hope to make this event even better than all the years before!

I hope to see you again this year!;)

ray o

That article was published on the 3rd October which was around 5 weeks after the event. I presume the evidence was gathered in the weeks leading up to that. I wouldnt have posted the article if it was months out of date.

As i said I like the event and have encouraged new people to the sport to do it last year and I will do the same this year.

I am aware of the risks to open water swimming but there was no doubt that there was a problem that day and the risk was far higher than in previous years.

I may have to register under a different name this year

smcgui

Don't be silly Ray we would love to have you back this year. It is important that we know if people have problems with the race because then we can make sure that we do everything in our power to address those issues!:)

d4r3n

I'm another who had stomach issues afterwards, presumably due to water quality. I had 3 friends who did it that also had stomach issues in the days afterwards, I don't think any of us reported it.

None of us had the same problems in 2010, I'm assuming it was just a bad day for it, hopefully the same won't happen again in 2012.

pgibbo

Will the TI site be able to handle the demand or will it be like HOTW last year?

What's the demand like for this race?

couerdelion

pgibbo wrote: »

Will the TI site be able to handle the demand or will it be like HOTW last year?

What's the demand like for this race?

It wasn't a race that sold out quickly last year. That's presumably because it can cater for a large entry

To be fair, apart from the small transition area which they apologised for last year, it's a well organised event.

Swim is in the Liffey and the water isn't that dirty. No control over bacteria and the water is tested prior to the event.

Cycle is laps of the park. Leave the Garda boat club, up the Khyber, up chesterfield avenue the past the OS and furry glen.

Run is in the park too with a good amount of it off road.

Best bit was the ice cream van serving free soft scoop at the end!

I did get ill from the swim too and didn't in any other Tri last year, but how often do you get the chance to swim in the liffey?

TriWazza

I did this race the past three years and have never gotten as much as an upset tummy. Its easily one of the best races on the calendar. Really well oganised event and on closed roads too. The change to the location of transition area was also good with everything now happening around the Garda boat club.

Its one of the few races in Ireland with closed roads which is a major plus IMO.

TJAC

:)Think Tunney is right on this one.

Anyway getting away from the debate above ... great race and looking forward to doing it again this year.

Huff n Puff

One of my favourite races on the TI calendar. Very well organised and supported. I have never had any problem with the water so I hope that continues this year.

Ice cream was the last thing I would have been able to eat at the finish of last year's race. Mentally I wanted the ice cream bad, but physically it wouldn't have lasted long inside me!

Daz1214

i did this race last year as well and loved it. The transition was my only problem so glad to gear thats being sorted. Very well organised and ran race and i can report 100% health after the race. Will be definitely entering again this year

mloc123

pgibbo wrote: »

Will the TI site be able to handle the demand or will it be like HOTW last year?

What's the demand like for this race?

Travelling over for it? It will sell out but not until late July/August usually.

Dowee

I don't believe the numbers quoted on Facebook are accurate and IMHO are just sweeping the issue under the carpet. The number of people I personally know who were sick after 2011 is in double digits for a start! Just because they weren't reported doesn't mean they didn't get sick as a result of water quality issues.

For me, the issue here surrounds the extent of the water tests and what they actually test for. Based on my knowledge of the 2011 test it wasn't going to detect certain very harmful bacteria such as Leptospirosis, of which there was at least one case of infection last year. It's all well and good talking about water tests, and saying the quality was "boarding on excellent", but if I was doing the race this year I'd be a lot more interested in what the water test has actually tested for!!

interested

tunney wrote: »

much worse water qualities in races in Ireland, about which no ones says a word. DCT gets a harsher time

I think ALL races in non-designated swimming areas (since designated areas are regularly tested) should be required to consult with the local public health officials prior to submitting races to the calendar with TI and have proof that this was done. The local public health should have expert knowledge of the area that the body of water is in and be aware of perodic problems that can occur (due to heavy rainfall, farming etc) that may not be detected by independent tests. The public health do what it says on the tin by the way and are not to be confused with the Environmental Protection Agency or EPA who will be more concerned with fish health than public health

Too many people get sick after racing and blame it on the curry and feed of pints at the apres tri. That said, if people are informed of the risks and still want to race then absolutely, fire away. If you buy your ticket, you take your chances.

Whether its the Vodafone sponsored DCT in the capital or any other race, race directors and TI should inform people of water quality tests conducted (how, when, where, by who) as soon as possible in a public way and not just when people report illness.


Id to do some digging but found some details regarding lepto here ...
http://www.caving.ie/publications/caving-information-pack/weils-disease-leptospirosis/ (a bit more than don't drink rat's p!ss ) and I know public health consult with kayaker clubs around this time of the year regarding the use of preventative medication.
Ecoli bacterial issues encountered are a little more difficult to avoid and can effect one person and not the other.

It might be in everyones best interest if TI, independently provided an online mechanism for competitors to report health issues following all races to ensure that a proactive approach can be taken for future years, again for all races. Its up to people who had issues to then report them to TI for full visibility and consideration for the following years calendar.

pgibbo

mloc123 wrote: »

Travelling over for it? It will sell out but not until late July/August usually.

I am indeed. Just entered. Looking forward to the closed roads. Are you doing it?

mloc123

pgibbo wrote: »

I am indeed. Just entered. Looking forward to the closed roads. Are you doing it?

More than likely, looks like its a showdown... a very one sided one in your favor but a showdown anyway

tunney

mloc123 wrote: »

More than likely, looks like its a showdown... a very one sided one in your favor but a showdown anyway

Suppose I should really put my name in the hat too........

griffin100

Water quality testing is only a single point in time test - you can do a water test the day before a race, get great results, and overnight rain can then wash all kinds of sh1te into the water making the water quality crap.

I'd be interested to see what exactly is tested for. The two main agents that would concern me would be coliforms and cryptosporidium. These are the two that can give rise to the dodgy stomachs.

Leptospirosis is a risk in all open water sports and any activity that brings you into an area frequented by rats so is a risk in many activities - the bacterium that causes the disease is carried in the urine of rats (and cattle) but it dies very quickly if allowed to dry out. However it's much less of a risk in rivers as opposed to lakes. Lepto gives rise to a significant illness and is much more than a dodgy tummy - you can die from this disease and I have heard estimates from researchers in the field that about one person a year in Ireland does so.

To protect yourself don't swallow any water (obviously) and cover all cuts and abrasions with a waterproof plaster.

The risks are greater in static water bodies as opposed to rivers for all of these biological agents. In a static water body like a lake there is the potential for material to build up and give rise to higher concentrations (a particular risk with leptospirosis). In a river the constant flow of the river helps 'flush' material out of the system more quickly, although this does mean that you are at risk from all of the crap that has entered the river upstream and in some cases if material is being dumped or washed into the river on a continual basis or over a period of a few days (e.g. during a week of heavy rain) then this flushing effect is limited.

pgibbo

mloc123 wrote: »

More than likely, looks like its a showdown... a very one sided one in your favor but a showdown anyway

I don't know about that Colm! You've been fierce quiet training away under the radar....

tunney wrote: »

Suppose I should really put my name in the hat too........

Being handed our ar$es on a plate comes to mind

mloc123

tunney wrote: »

Suppose I should really put my name in the hat too........

Save me coming last I guess

Dowee

griffin100 wrote: »

Water quality testing is only a single point in time test - you can do a water test the day before a race, get great results, and overnight rain can then wash all kinds of sh1te into the water making the water quality crap.

I'd be interested to see what exactly is tested for. The two main agents that would concern me would be coliforms and cryptosporidium. These are the two that can give rise to the dodgy stomachs.

Leptospirosis is a risk in all open water sports and any activity that brings you into an area frequented by rats so is a risk in many activities - the bacterium that causes the disease is carried in the urine of rats (and cattle) but it dies very quickly if allowed to dry out. However it's much less of a risk in rivers as opposed to lakes. Lepto gives rise to a significant illness and is much more than a dodgy tummy - you can die from this disease and I have heard estimates from researchers in the field that about one person a year in Ireland does so.

To protect yourself don't swallow any water (obviously) and cover all cuts and abrasions with a waterproof plaster.

The risks are greater in static water bodies as opposed to rivers for all of these biological agents. In a static water body like a lake there is the potential for material to build up and give rise to higher concentrations (a particular risk with leptospirosis). In a river the constant flow of the river helps 'flush' material out of the system more quickly, although this does mean that you are at risk from all of the crap that has entered the river upstream and in some cases if material is being dumped or washed into the river on a continual basis or over a period of a few days (e.g. during a week of heavy rain) then this flushing effect is limited.

I agree a water test is only a point in time, however a extensive and published water test done 2 days before an event is better than no test or a non extensive test with a conclusion of "bordering on excellent". Transparency and an overriding concern for the health of participants is what is key here.

I don't know whether your post is based on opinion or scientific evidence but, to give my two cents (based on my opinion):

- Lakes aren't static. They are located on rivers which flow through them. Albeit, the flow might not be as strong as some rivers.
- Lakes are generally a lot bigger than rivers (certainly bigger than the Liffey around Islandbridge). So any concentrations of bacteria like Lepto would be reduced by dilution. The Liffey is a concentrated area with supposedly a healthy rat population who are no doubt replenishing the supplies of Lepto on a daily basis, which will counteract the "flush" you mentioned.
- Alot of races in Ireland which take place in rivers are in towns / cities where the pollution levels and rat populations are likely to be higher so comparing lakes to rivers in this regard is somewhat "apples and oranges".

griffin100

I agree a water test is only a point in time, however a extensive and published water test done 2 days before an event is better than no test or a non extensive test with a conclusion of "bordering on excellent". Transparency and an overriding concern for the health of participants is what is key here.

I never said otherwise, I'm simply making the point that water testing is a useful tool but has its limitations. I certainly wouldn't swim in any water body that had questionable water quality, but then again I did do IMUK when there signs up around the lake warning of a blue green algae bloom :pac: Every time you swim in open water you take a risk of being infected with something, you're never going to be able to eliminate that risk completely so each of us has to take a decision on whether or not we want to take that risk.

I don't know whether your post is based on opinion or scientific evidence but, to give my two cents (based on my opinion):

It's based on the knowledge that I have to have to do my job, which includes amongst other things understanding water quality issues and infection control (but that doesn't mean I'm right......)

- Lakes aren't static. They are located on rivers which flow through them. Albeit, the flow might not be as strong as some rivers.
- Lakes are generally a lot bigger than rivers (certainly bigger than the Liffey around Islandbridge). So any concentrations of bacteria like Lepto would be reduced by dilution. The Liffey is a concentrated area with supposedly a healthy rat population who are no doubt replenishing the supplies of Lepto on a daily basis, which will counteract the "flush" you mentioned.
- Alot of races in Ireland which take place in rivers are in towns / cities where the pollution levels and rat populations are likely to be higher so comparing lakes to rivers in this regard is somewhat "apples and oranges".

Not all lakes are located on rivers. By definition lakes are referred to as static water bodies, and are considered to present a much greater risk of letpo infection than rivers, though you are correct to say that the smaller the lake the greater the risk. In fact most of the cases of lepto I've come across have been caught in situations where the person has come into contact pretty directly with rat urine, or the bacterium has been in a very small water body like a small pond, ditch or even a puddle. The flushing effect in a river is very real. There are thousands of rats in and around the Liffey (as there are every other river) producing huge quantities of urine (rats just love to pee) but this is tiny when you consider the volume of water that flows down the Liffey every second. It's still a risk but a small risk when swimming. I'd be more worried about coliform bacterium and crypto ingestion.....or even catching lepto by cutting my hand when climbing out on the bank and becoming infected that way.

shotgunmcos

mloc123 wrote: »

Save me coming last I guess

We can suss out your form at TriLaois in a few weeks

Dowee

griffin100 wrote: »

I never said otherwise, I'm simply making the point that water testing is a useful tool but has its limitations. I certainly wouldn't swim in any water body that had questionable water quality, but then again I did do IMUK when there signs up around the lake warning of a blue green algae bloom :pac:

Agreed regarding limitations. My point is extensive tests and transparency is better than the limited tests and transparency. At least IMUK had a sign up!!

griffin100 wrote: »

Not all lakes are located on rivers. By definition lakes are referred to as static water bodies, and are considered to present a much greater risk of letpo infection than rivers, though you are correct to say that the smaller the lake the greater the risk.

I think it probably depends on the definition, but no point being pedantic on an irrelevant point, I think it is safe to say most lakes are on rivers or drain to some extent.

griffin100 wrote: »

In fact most of the cases of lepto I've come across have been caught in situations where the person has come into contact pretty directly with rat urine, or the bacterium has been in a very small water body like a small pond, ditch or even a puddle. The flushing effect in a river is very real. There are thousands of rats in and around the Liffey (as there are every other river) producing huge quantities of urine (rats just love to pee) but this is tiny when you consider the volume of water that flows down the Liffey every second. It's still a risk but a small risk when swimming. I'd be more worried about coliform bacterium and crypto ingestion.....or even catching lepto by cutting my hand when climbing out on the bank and becoming infected that way.

As this is your field you're clearly the expert in this regard, however the risk of Lepto in the Liffey is real and cases have occurred in DCT. As I noted previously there was at least one case in 2011. Of course you need to worry about coliforms and crypto, however I'd take a dodgy stomach for a few days over Lepto anytime.

tunney

mloc123 wrote: »

Save me coming last I guess

I've just been sandbagging, I'm actually swimming my 100s going off 1:05, have an FTP of 420 and am running 160km a week. Also weight down to 9st 12.

mloc123

shotgunmcos wrote: »

We can suss out your form at TriLaois in a few weeks

Will be doing well not to drown during the swim.

griffin100

tunney wrote: »

I've just been sandbagging, I'm actually swimming my 100s going off 1:05, have an FTP of 420 and am running 160km a week. Also weight down to 9st 12.

The only thing weighting 9st12 in my house is the combined weight of my 4 children :cool:

911sc

I did DCT last year..and will not be doing it this year as i am one of the many who got sick for days after the event.
If the water quality was ok, how does one explain the amount of participants that had dodgy tommies afterwards?
Pity as i really loved the course.

interested

911sc wrote: »

I did DCT last year..and will not be doing it this year as i am one of the many who got sick for days after the event.
If the water quality was ok, how does one explain the amount of participants that had dodgy tommies afterwards?
Pity as i really loved the course.

"many who got sick for days after the event"

I know of quite a few people that had issues in several clubs, but until there is a independent mechanism for people to report health (or any issues) after their race experience at any race then unfortunately it all becomes he said, she said.

Online form accessible once you login to your TI account (and a facility for those who purchase a one day license that covers their insurance and are still entitled to an opinion and the ability to offer feedback), select 'race' from drop down, provide details of any issues and submit. Im sure all race directors would appreciate the feedback to help ensure that people continue to return to race at their event.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

In for this as well so should be a good bit of smack talk between boardsies doing it:)

tunney

Gannon Quiet Transgressor wrote: »

In for this as well so should be a good bit of smack talk between boardsies doing it:)

And sure we can always compare to see who gets the sickest afterwards.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

tunney wrote: »

And sure we can always compare to see who gets the sickest afterwards.

Exactly my thoughts. I felt i missed out on the stomach bugs being handed out last year. Hopefully the goodie bag can be used as a sick bag on the way home.

tunney

Gannon Quiet Transgressor wrote: »

Exactly my thoughts. I felt i missed out on the stomach bugs being handed out last year. Hopefully the goodie bag can be used as a sick bag on the way home.

Well i cannot get below 12 stone this year, a good dose of the sh1ts post DCT would help my 2013 session no end I imagine.

Dowee

A nice dose of Lepto will see you drop a stone in a week, no problem! Should solve all your problems

cjt156

This is heartening reading for a newb just signed up to DCT as his first Tri; here was I thinking I would be sh!tting myself for weeks before the race...

bryangiggsy

Dowee wrote: »

As this is your field you're clearly the expert in this regard, however the risk of Lepto in the Liffey is real and cases have occurred in DCT. As I noted previously there was at least one case in 2011. Of course you need to worry about coliforms and crypto, however I'd take a dodgy stomach for a few days over Lepto anytime.

1 in 900...thats a real risk :rolleyes:

Dowee

bryangiggsy wrote: »

1 in 900...thats a real risk :rolleyes:

My default setting is to ignore idiotic posts but on occasions I make exceptions.

On an unrelated subject, I'm not sure where you got your numbers from but there was closer to 665 people in the 2 races. As regards the number of Lepto cases I can only confirm one however I have second hand knowledge of at least 1 other potential case. As I haven't researched the matter I've no idea how many there was.

Out of interest what sort of stats are "real" in your eyes? Just so I know for future reference.

bryangiggsy

Dowee wrote: »

My default setting is to ignore idiotic posts but on occasions I make exceptions.

On an unrelated subject, I'm not sure where you got your numbers from but there was closer to 665 people in the 2 races. As regards the number of Lepto cases I can only confirm one however I have second hand knowledge of at least 1 other potential case. As I haven't researched the matter I've no idea how many there was.

Out of interest what sort of stats are "real" in your eyes? Just so I know for future reference.

I would consider real to be moderate to high risk & since 1 in 900 or 1 in 657 or even 2 in 657 than that is extremely low risk and therefore not real.
Its an easy solution enter if you can live with the extremely low risk or dont if you cant.

tunney

Dowee wrote: »

My default setting is to ignore idiotic posts but on occasions I make exceptions.

On an unrelated subject, I'm not sure where you got your numbers from but there was closer to 665 people in the 2 races. As regards the number of Lepto cases I can only confirm one however I have second hand knowledge of at least 1 other potential case. As I haven't researched the matter I've no idea how many there was.

Out of interest what sort of stats are "real" in your eyes? Just so I know for future reference.

You can do Kelly Brook but there is a 1/900 risk of getting the clap. how many (single)blokes would not take those odds?

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

Dowee wrote: »

My default setting is to ignore idiotic posts but on occasions I make exceptions.

On an unrelated subject, I'm not sure where you got your numbers from but there was closer to 665 people in the 2 races. As regards the number of Lepto cases I can only confirm one however I have second hand knowledge of at least 1 other potential case. As I haven't researched the matter I've no idea how many there was.

Out of interest what sort of stats are "real" in your eyes? Just so I know for future reference.

You can do Kelly Brook but there is a 1/900 risk of getting the clap. how many (single)blokes would not take those odds?

Lol..none....:) ..the unlucky one would just accept it while taking his antibiotics

Dowee

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I would consider real to be moderate to high risk & since 1 in 900 or 1 in 657 or even 2 in 657 than that is extremely low risk and therefore not real.
Its an easy solution enter if you can live with the extremely low risk or dont if you cant.

I would consider the chances of me winning the Lotto jackpot to be "extremely low". I'm pretty sure the odds aren't 1/329.

Unregistered.

Interested!

griffin100

The stats on letospirosis infections in Ireland can be found here.

Last year there were 17 cases of lepto in Ireland and in the last 7 years the maximum number of cases was 29 in any given year. Compare that to Cryptosporidium infections, of which there were over 294 last year and peaking at 608 cases per year in the last 7 years. There were more cases of Malaria in Ireland last year that there were leptospirosis cases.

Is leptospirosis a risk in open water swimming - of course it is and its a risk that we all take when we do open water swimming in rivers and in particular lakes. However to be clear, leptospirosis is not an indicator of water quality as such, its a naturally occurring infection that is always present in areas where you find rats - its a risk to golfers, swimmers, anglers and farmers. As I said above I'd be more concerned about crypto and coliform numbers as these are an indication of water quality and in particular the amount of sh1te in the water.