Repair after timing belt failure....pic heavy.

Nissan doctor

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd need more than notes to tackle a KV6 before it snapped a belt, not to mind after

Sure they are easy:eek:

Nissan doctor

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Sure they are easy:eek:

For you no doubt, me not too good with spanners.
That crowd your man that used to be on TV owns (KC garage is it ?) quoted me €1100/€1200 to do the belts and water pump

Nissan doctor

:PI was joking....I'd cringe at the thought of having to do one of them again TBH

... bad enough to do the rear three plugs on the bastad (for me) :pac:

john reilly

why?

Nissan doctor

john reilly wrote: »

why?

Why what?

john reilly

why would you waste your time and money

Raiser

Well ignoring ****head..... ^^^

- Thanks a million for posting that Doc, great to get a chance to see actual mechanical surgery taking place, class post

Raiser

Is there any reason why more/all engines don't just use a timing chain?

- Do timing chains have any interval or warning signs before requiring a change?

Nissan doctor

Raiser wrote: »

Is there any reason why more/all engines don't just use a timing chain?

- Do timing chains have any interval or warning signs before requiring a change?

Belt driven engines are quieter and simpler to design, they are also lighter so create less drag on the engine. Chains naturally create more noise and also run in oil and need an oil supply to the tensioner but should, in theory, last the life of the engine.

Some manufacturers are now developing belts which run in oil and are supposed to last the life of the engine.

Nissan doctor

Part 2:


A view of one of the new valve guides:




On to lapping the valves, Lapping compound applied to the valve:




Lapping stick on the valve:



And getting stuck in....its a bit of a tedious job:




After the valves are finished, remove them again(keeping them matched to the positions they were lapped in) and fit the valve stem oil seals:



Then in with the valve springs, compress and fit the collets:



Collets in place:




All valves in place and everything nice and clean:

Nissan doctor

Next the tappets go back in:




Cams in place but before they are tightened down, the new camshaft oil seals go on:




Next, a bit of block preparation before fitting the head. A nylon grinder gives a clean, smooth surface to cast block decks:




And fully cleaned:




Head back on at last, this head requires a combination of torque and angle measurements to tighten correctly(25nm of torque, then 70 degrees X2 and finally 50 degrees):




With the head tightened down its on to the external componants. Exhaust manifold:




Old water pump being replaced too:




New pump in place:




This engine is unusual in that you actually use the water pump to tension the belt. The water pump id offset so you rotate it to tension the belt:




And the engine back looking fairly complete again:




And the moment of truth......:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7N5iRa_bqE&list=UUf2FXl96khtO_Jl43BrAzuA&index=1&feature=plcp

Please excuse one of the lads shouting in the backround:P

Nissan doctor

Required tools(in addition to normal sockets etc)

-Torque wrench
-Angle gauge
-Valve spring compressors
-Lapping paste and stick
-stem seal pliers(ideally, to prevent damage to the seal)


This head had standard 14mm heads for the cylinder head bolts but many manufacturers use various spline/ribe/torx head bolts which would require specific sockets.
This engine also requires at 38mm spanner/tool to rotate the water pump when tensioning the belt.

Total (retail price) cost totalled approx €600. I left the invoices in work so will post the exact costs when I'm back from my hols.


A youtube video showing the action of lapping the valves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXsH12Rg6s



Hopefully I might help anyone who wants to try it themselves or at least gave people an idea of the work involved.

Thanks for reading:)

Fiona

Where was the qualified adult while you were doing all this playing?
Fair play! Hope I NEVER need you to do this type of work for me however!

Avns1s

Well done ND.

A well structured very informative thread which will help many. It makes the job look a lot simpler than it actually is, though. (Meant very much as a compliment rather than a criticism btw!)

You still need a fair bit if mechanical cop on and experience IMO, before tackling this job and expecting 100% success.

Nissan doctor

mrs crilly wrote: »

Where was the qualified adult while you were doing all this playing?
Fair play! Hope I NEVER need you to do this type of work for me however!

Hmmm, come to think of it, your timing belt looked a bit dodgy:P

Fiona

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Hmmm, come to think of it, your timing belt looked a bit dodgy:P

* runs to car with torch and Haynes manual

Raiser

Thanks Doc, your expertise, photography and writing skills combined with my ability to skull good german beer has given me all the courage I need to rebuild my own, perfectly functioning engine tonight, armed with nothing but dreams and an shiny unworn socket set

- I'll post pics tomorrow of what, ahm remains.......

trixyben

at the stage where you are lapping the valves what exactly does this mean and what does it acheive Doc?

Jimdagym

trixyben wrote: »

at the stage where you are lapping the valves what exactly does this mean and what does it acheive Doc?

You use a grinding paste to clean up the valve seat. A better seal means you don't lose compression. I done it once years ago and it's a pain.

Fair play Dr Nissan. Very interesting thread.

Slidey

Nice thread Doc, took a while to load with my crappy broadband but well written and photographed.

Mar4ix

nice work, just wondering, how much did it cost to complete .. parts, head skimming, headgasket kit.. etc... to compare of costs of used engine from scrapyard. ??

Mar4ix

nice work, just wondering, how much did it cost to complete .. parts, head skimming, headgasket kit.. etc... to compare of costs of used engine from scrapyard. ??

Nissan doctor

Mar4ix wrote: »

nice work, just wondering, how much did it cost to complete .. parts, head skimming, headgasket kit.. etc... to compare of costs of used engine from scrapyard. ??

Depending on the engine, the cost can sometimes be close to what you'd pay for a cheap second hand engine....but I'd always recommend repairing as you then have an engine(or head at least) is as new condition rather then and engine of unknown history/condition.

Discodog

I did the same on my petrol Freelander - the tensioner went on the 23rd of Dec so too late to get parts before the Christmas close down. I managed to get all the parts on ebay & I didn't need a head skim as I had replaced the head gasket before.

I had to replace 10 valves (out of 16). Lapping didn't take long. About 2 mins each with the coarse paste & then fine. The total cost was about €120 for valves, belt, tensioner, gasket etc. Really nice feeling when it started first time but then grief as I discovered that the belt was rubbing on the cover. Oh & I managed to use a g clamp as a valve spring compressor by making an adaptor out of a bit of gas pipe.

It turned out that the rear belt cover had become distorted & cracked. I am now running cambelt exposed racing style until I can get around to stripping everything back off to fit the cover.

Unless you know what you are doing don't buy it unless Haynes do a workshop manual for it

By the way I am definitely getting one of those nylon brushes.

Mar4ix

Discodog wrote: »

I did the same on my petrol Freelander - the tensioner went on the 23rd of Dec so too late to get parts before the Christmas close down. I managed to get all the parts on ebay & I didn't need a head skim as I had replaced the head gasket before. .......

......By the way I am definitely getting one of those nylon brushes.

hmmm... i thought engine head must be skimmed every time, when been off engine... :cool:

edit... hope you put new headgasket anyway.

Nissan doctor

Discodog wrote: »

I did the same on my petrol Freelander - the tensioner went on the 23rd of Dec so too late to get parts before the Christmas close down. I managed to get all the parts on ebay & I didn't need a head skim as I had replaced the head gasket before.

I had to replace 10 valves (out of 16). Lapping didn't take long. About 2 mins each with the coarse paste & then fine. The total cost was about €120 for valves, belt, tensioner, gasket etc. Really nice feeling when it started first time but then grief as I discovered that the belt was rubbing on the cover. Oh & I managed to use a g clamp as a valve spring compressor by making an adaptor out of a bit of gas pipe.

It turned out that the rear belt cover had become distorted & cracked. I am now running cambelt exposed racing style until I can get around to stripping everything back off to fit the cover.

Unless you know what you are doing don't buy it unless Haynes do a workshop manual for it

By the way I am definitely getting one of those nylon brushes.

The replacement valve guides bump the price up a bit as you're looking at approx €150 to have that done alone.

I would also always use a full headset rather then just a head gasket on its own.

Did you not replace the head bolts when you refitted the head? Big no no to reuse head bolts on the rover K series especially. Did you use the required multi layer head gasket and replacement oil rail/ladder? Its not a permanent repair if you didn't:eek:

Mar4ix

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Depending on the engine, the cost can sometimes be close to what you'd pay for a cheap second hand engine....but I'd always recommend repairing as you then have an engine(or head at least) is as new condition rather then and engine of unknown history/condition.

agree... when i was doing my punto engine, everyone said, that cheaper is change an engine, but would it be better ? spend around 250 (full set rings, big end bearings, engine head skim and test, headgasket kit with new bolts) if i am planing drive it for another 2 - 3years. ... body very good condition, very little rust, need to do some treatment, some rust prevention.

Discodog

Nissan doctor wrote: »

The replacement valve guides bump the price up a bit as you're looking at approx €150 to have that done alone.

I would also always use a full headset rather then just a head gasket on its own.

Did you not replace the head bolts when you refitted the head? Big no no to reuse head bolts on the rover K series especially. Did you use the required multi layer head gasket and replacement oil rail/ladder? Its not a permanent repair if you didn't:eek:

The head was replaced with a full recon head only 6000 miles before this failure. At that time I replaced the oil rail & yes of course I used a proper MLS. The head bolts were well within their stretch limits - I checked them but it's still horrible doing the final torquing.

One of the reasons why this engine is easy to work on are the amazing Landrover forums. One guy had posted a thread like this with about 40 photos - it really helped. The other "trick" is to go through all the forums & the manual & write up the order that you will do each task & what spanner sizes etc you will need, torques, special tips etc. Then you are only referring to one sheet as you work.

john reilly

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Depending on the engine, the cost can sometimes be close to what you'd pay for a cheap second hand engine....but I'd always recommend repairing as you then have an engine(or head at least) is as new condition rather then and engine of unknown history/condition.

yes but if the timing belt hadnt broken it would not have required any work. considering it was only really repairing the head this engine will only be as good as it was before