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Catholic, but don't want to be.

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    #32
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    prestigio1977 wrote: »
    I went to a talk on Humanism a few weeks back and found it very interesting and agreed with a lot of their views.

    Are you looking for answers elsewhere prestigio?
    Do you feel there is a hole left that religion used to fill?
    Don't know why, but I get that vibe from your posts.

    Have you read any books? We have a thread on some good reads here.


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    #33
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Good stuff.

    If you don't mind me asking, how are your kids about this? Are they nominally catholic or did they start asking themselves questions at some point too?

    I'd imagine once a parent looks behind the curtain, it doesn't take much for them to realise it's okay to think for themselves.


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    #34
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Dades wrote: »
    If you don't mind me asking, how are your kids about this? Are they nominally catholic or did they start asking themselves questions at some point too?

    I'd bet good money they already don't buy most of it.


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    #35
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Enjoy your Sunday lie-in, guilt-free sex, meat on Fridays and the knowledge that the only person controlling your life is you.


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    #36
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Sarky wrote: »
    Enjoy your Sunday lie-in, guilt-free sex, meat on Fridays...
    You mean like most 'catholics'? :)


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    #37
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Precisely.


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    #38
    FiachDubh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭FiachDubh


    lynski wrote: »
    HA I can take that one!
    My Dad died last year and we only got around to the mass cards this month. We loved the sympathy cards, the personal messages of condolence and anecdote. The mass cards meant less then nothing to us as all these people just went and paid a few quid, no thought, no meaning.
    I would not have sent one anyway, but I will never again send anything unless I have something to say to the family.
    At one point we were calculating the amount of money one of the local priests and another church made from the funeral. So cynical, money for the mass (abysmal, you would think they would get a little performance training?), money hand over fist for more masses in the cards, money for months mind(actually no, a family friend did a lovely service in the house), money for the years anniversary (not us, we decided not to bother)
    what a racket.

    OK, I know this comment is old, but it disgusts me so i'm going to take issue with it.

    Your comment made me sick, physically.
    You said the mass cards meant nothing to you, I can't get over that. Imagine an old woman that goes to mass every week of her life and starts each morning with a hail mary, I'm sure she can think of no better way to honour the dead then to give a mass card. And what, you laugh at it? you wouldn't wipe your arse with it? You say its cynical that you have to pay for the mass! that's most ironic thing I've ever heard because its you that's cynical. If you think that religion is so false, and that traditional religious condolences mean nothing, then why the **** didn't you hold a secular funeral!


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    #39
    redfacedbear
    Registered Users Posts: 891 ✭✭✭redfacedbear


    FiachDubh wrote: »
    you wouldn't wipe your arse with it?


    Are you suggesting one ought to wipe one's arse with it? Now that's disrespectful!

    Weep! Wail! Won't somebody think of the poor little old ladies!


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    #40
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I mostly agree with FiachDubh's sentiments (who mentioned arse-wiping?)

    Unless someone cynically buys a mass card for someone who died a staunch atheist, then it's a meaningful gesture from someone whose only frame of reference is the RC way of doing things. That the church make money from it is a different complaint, and should take nothing from the person who paid a few quid and said a few prayers in 'good faith'.


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    #41
    prestigio1977
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭prestigio1977


    Dades wrote: »
    Good stuff.

    If you don't mind me asking, how are your kids about this? Are they nominally catholic or did they start asking themselves questions at some point too?

    I'd imagine once a parent looks behind the curtain, it doesn't take much for them to realise it's okay to think for themselves.

    I don't mind you asking at all.
    We have spoken about it and they say that that they believe in God and an afterlife and consider themselves Catholic, but they do accept my views. I do encourage them to think for themselves and I'm perfectly happy with whatever they choose to believe, so long as they're being true to themselves.


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    #42
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    The only thing I found a little odd was I got two Mass cards at my leaving cert!

    Clearly some of those elderly neighbours had very little confidence in my academic ability lol


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    #43
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    FiachDubh wrote: »
    Your comment made me sick, physically.

    [...] you wouldn't wipe your arse with it?
    A bit of consistency on your part wouldn't go amiss here. Please avoid references to arse-wiping in future. They really don't add much to the conversation.

    thanks.


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    #44
    prestigio1977
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭prestigio1977


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    Are you looking for answers elsewhere prestigio?
    Do you feel there is a hole left that religion used to fill?
    Don't know why, but I get that vibe from your posts.

    Have you read any books? We have a thread on some good reads here.

    Hi Beruthiel, I'm not sure if it's a hole to be filled, religion never really filled any hole for me! I think it's that I like the idea of likeminded people getting together and sharing their views and opinions. I have done some reading, not much now I will admit, it's just something I'm interested in. Thanks for the thread, I'll check it out.


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    #45
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    OK guys I'm going to have to ask a silly question. I realise that having resided in this country now for three years next month, I should know this already but; What is a mass card exactly?


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    #46
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    I thought they were the little cards from funerals with people's picture and prayers, but from reading in this thread about them being given for leaving cert and to living people, I realise I don't actually know what they are.


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    #47
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Just looked it up and seems they are Catholic sympathy cards that have to be bought through the church. You can even buy 'bouquet' mass cards. Hmmmmmmm


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    #48
    redfacedbear
    Registered Users Posts: 891 ✭✭✭redfacedbear


    Dades wrote: »
    I mostly agree with FiachDubh's sentiments

    Ah yeah, "it's the thought that counts" would most likely be my attitude too. I did find the post quite hysterical in trying to make that point though.


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    #49
    Aoifums
    Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Aoifums


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    OK guys I'm going to have to ask a silly question. I realise that having resided in this country now for three years next month, I should know this already but; What is a mass card exactly?
    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    I thought they were the little cards from funerals with people's picture and prayers, but from reading in this thread about them being given for leaving cert and to living people, I realise I don't actually know what they are.
    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Just looked it up and seems they are Catholic sympathy cards that have to be bought through the church. You can even buy 'bouquet' mass cards. Hmmmmmmm

    You pretty much got it. Mass cards are sympathy cards but (apparently) a mass gets said for whoever the card is purchased for :rolleyes: Mass cards are for dead people, mass bouquets are for people who are still alive.


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    #50
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Aoifums wrote: »
    You pretty much got it. Mass cards are sympathy cards but (apparently) a mass gets said for whoever the card is purchased for :rolleyes: Mass cards are for dead people, mass bouquets are for people who are still alive.

    Aren't they legally protected actually? Newsagents aren't allowed to sell generic ones, they must be certified by the local parish? I think it was a big news item a few years ago, though the more I think about it it feels like it was just a dream I had...


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    #51
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    OK guys I'm going to have to ask a silly question. I realise that having resided in this country now for three years next month, I should know this already but; What is a mass card exactly?

    Buying a mass to be said for someone.

    They get a greeting card with a priestly signature telling them a mass will be said for them - unless they are dead, in which case the family get it.


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    #52
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    The mass being said for them means their name usually gets mentioned once, maybe twice. It's like having your name in the credits of a film as Generic Bystander #12.


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    #53
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Actually here's a link to an article about the special legal status of mass cards, people may remember: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/
    ANGRY Church leaders have warned shop owners they face 10 years in prison or a EUR300,000 fine if they're caught selling bogus mass cards.

    Top clerics in Cork sent a threatening letter to Mark Hanley, who owns a newsagents on Magazine Road in the city, warning him and other retailers not to sell the offending cards.

    The Church objects as profits go to private companies rather than the local parish.

    The letter stated that selling the cards has always been "strictly forbidden under Canon Law, this point was highlighted in evidence during [a recent] High Court Challenge.

    ...

    The legislation was passed after concerns that people were being duped by private firms looking to profit from the dead.

    Thank god that can't happen any more!

    Edit: And the relevant legislation: Charities Act 2009 Section 10 and 99.


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    #54
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    TheChizler wrote: »
    the relevant legislation: Charities Act 2009 Section 10 and 99.
    This is a law enacted in 2009?

    I'm speechless.


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    #55
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    There is a law? Protecting mass cards? Really? That is one of the funniest things I have ever heard!


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    #56
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Surely the RCC should itself be fined under that law for duping people in order to profit from the dead?


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    #57
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I heard if you want someone killed, you can buy a mass murder card. It's usually done by way of lightening strike.

    Those are expensive though, as the recipient will be both alive and dead.


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    #58
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,387 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    robindch wrote: »
    This is a law enacted in 2009?

    I'm speechless.

    Yet another example of the State unconstitutionally endowing a religion - in this case giving them a legally protected monopoly.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #59
    Aoifums
    Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Aoifums


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Aren't they legally protected actually? Newsagents aren't allowed to sell generic ones, they must be certified by the local parish? I think it was a big news item a few years ago, though the more I think about it it feels like it was just a dream I had...

    I am really glad I just finished my drink because this and the following posts would have made me spit it out. That is ridiculous!


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